Brave

The essay was interesting and all, but my opinion remains: far from bad, but pretty much average, maybe So Okay, It's Average.

I thought Wall E was awesome as much as others do and I didn't have to read an essay about it. While it raises interesting points, to me it kind of breaks that Show, Don't Tell rule.

edited 18th Jul '12 8:05:45 AM by Anthony_H

The point the essay was making was that because of the topic Brave picked, nobody was willing to even give it a chance. It's written off as a typical princess film simply by virtue of a main character that is a princess.

"Typical robot film" doesn't exist, so Wall E wasn't slapped with any labels before it came out.

edited 19th Jul '12 1:15:05 PM by Rebochan

I was willing to give it a chance. Hell, I was sure I was gonna love it.

And then I saw it.

Gonna agree with you again.

Isn't a typical robot film A.I. Is a Crapshoot? Then the computer/machine tries to conquer or kill everything?

Also, maybe the reason why the movie was marketed as a dark adventure was to avoid falling into the Girl's Show Ghetto, and being stuck with the princess label.

edited 19th Jul '12 2:17:33 PM by DrPsyche

So basically, because Pixar didn't make a typical STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER having a dark fantasy adventure, it sucked.

I was commenting on marketing, I was AGREEING with you, The General audiences would probably be alienated by the premise of having a princess (which they usually are, or at least the advertising execs think they are), so it was marketed as a fantasy adventure.

edited 19th Jul '12 5:02:56 PM by DrPsyche

I'm not sure about the STRONG AMAZON type, but I was really expecting a darker tone. Not like in "BLOOD BLOOD EVERYWHERE", but surely something more wicked and adult.

Maybe that's the problem, and I know it's a crazy theory, but you'll be the judge: people were expecting dark, and they got a movie that was more light hearted. Probably, if this movie was released a decade earlier, it would have been seen as some of Pixar's best, but after 17 years of nice and charming flicks, MAYBE people are ready for the next paradigm shift.

Heck, don't forget that people got tired of "Shrekesque" movies even if at first they were LOVED and seen as fresh and clever. Pixar's act of "Heartwarming and touching" flicks MAY be starting to get old. MAYBE this school of filming peaked with Toy Story 3.

However, it raises a question...if the Shrek alike films are out of style, and IF the Pixar feel good movies too, well...what's the new paradigm?

edited 19th Jul '12 5:14:17 PM by Anthony_H

Darker and Edgier, I guess. I read on one of the trope pages that the movie execs of How To Train Yourdragon were concerned that people wouldn't like him losing his foot, but most people were pretty impressed by it. I know I was.

Brave might have been an issue of marketing. I like not knowing a plot going into something, but when I think I know the plot, it takes adjusting to realize that's not what you're getting. Sometimes it takes the majority of the movie to realize that you're not getting what you think you are.

When a movie's trailer doesn't reveal important facts, its because of two things: either they don't want to spoil some 'big reveal'- or the studio is afraid it will be misunderstood by the audience. YMMV on which applies to Brave.

(Note: they try these things on closed-in test audiences, often basing their decisions on their reactions.)

Loved it. Better than Up.

I was trying to compare Brave's marketing to the Tangled marketing. Tangled did better at box office than Princess and the frog. Allegedly because the trailers played down the princess elements (At least that's what I gathered from articles and this wiki).

edited 23rd Jul '12 12:57:27 AM by DrPsyche

I watched Brave on Saturday. It's not Pixar's best, but I quite enjoyed it. My opinion of it was much improved after reading the article Meta Four linked and reflected on it.

I found La Luna to be slightly disconcerting. Almost immediately I recognised elements of Italo Calvino's story The Distance of the Moon, so I was expecting a far more melancholy story. Certainly not something so adorable*

Okay, it's been a few weeks from when I saw Brave, so my opinion has evened out. I still don't like the movie for a good many reasons (The Runaway Princess plot being uninventive, some of the slapstick falling flat, The sheer amount of Show Don'tTell in Mordu's backstory and the kingdoms', the magic becoming too plot orientated, the underdeveloped side characters, the triplets, The climax, wasting Mordu, the fact that if Merida's quest to unite the kingdoms failed, there wouldn't be a war there would be more goofy slapstick, The predictability of the plot, and much more). There are parts of the film I enjoyed.

• The animation was excellent. I loved looking at the Wil-o-wisps, even if their purpose was skewed. I didn't find Merida's hair attractive (personal opinion there), but it was animated beautifully, the way if moved and flowed was amazing.

• The Soundtrack was lovely, I'm a sucker for Gaelic and Scottish music.

• The Mother Daughter plot was touching.

• I liked Merida not having a love interest. Very many princess movies (Especially Disney Princess movies) always end with her getting together with the love interest. Here, there is no love interest, the main relationship was with her mother. Is Merida a Lesbian? Honestly, I don't care, I'm going with the fact the she had no romantic relationships (Even If she looked interested in that large guy).

• The essay gave me something else to like. The use of bravery as standing up to stuff you don't like, not a scary monster, but responsibilty. I also liked that the Archery wasn't important. Merida's archery was prominent in the trailers, but in the end, it amounted to nothing. Showing that physical bravery wasn't what was important.

• The mother slowly loosing her humanity was neat.

• The scene where Mordu smashes the tablet in the past, and then turning to the camera revealing that he's a man with a scary bear head. That scene was genuinely scary.

• I liked the Dingwall Hunk, he was this huge impressive guy who just appeared int he background, like winning the tug of war contest with no effort, and catching that arrow when the Dingwalls went to "War"

edited 30th Jul '12 12:59:25 AM by DrPsyche

BTW, Merida has a *hilarious* cameo on How Tangled Should Have Ended [1] (after the credits.) Check it out!

(I hope Brave gets its own How It Should Have Ended, too. It really deserves it!)

edited 30th Jul '12 8:31:31 AM by Sijo

Yeah, that was pretty good.

It'd be interesting to see what they would come up with for a How Brave Should Have Ended.

Now that I can remember going to watch Brave in retrospect. I still think it is not terrible or bad or even mediocre. It is less dumb than both Cars and around tied with Monsters Inc down there in the bottom of Pixar films. La Luna was cool. Combining La Luna and sort of ok Pixar film, I think I don't regret watching this. But I think it helps me that I didn't have any expectations whatsoever from it. Also, as standard as everything about the movie was, I think that Merida having no love interests, not even a female one is something I have not seen like never. Even Mulan , who I think makes a better Action Girl than Merida still had to marry a dude at the end of the movie, (which I found to be pretty dumb).

That article is very long.

edited 30th Jul '12 12:26:54 PM by nairoxev

This is just a nitpick, but the original Mulan had a Maybe Ever After ending. Her getting married was only in the crappy sequel which quite a few people disregard.

And no way in hell is Brave better than Up.

edited 30th Jul '12 12:49:46 PM by Mort08

To be fair, Mulan II was one of the better of the Disney sequels made at the time. It probably would've been a lot better if Mushu quite as exaggerated as he was, and if the subplot with the princesses didn't feel like an excuse to give Yao, Ling and Chien-Po girlfriends.

The scenes with Mulan and Shang were some of the best scenes of that movie though, imo.

True enough, however, that the movie being totally about romantic love as apposed to the many themes in the first movie did cause it to suffer.

edited 30th Jul '12 1:10:59 PM by KnownUnknown

I forgot to mention the La Luna segment. I liked that. Whenever i think of cute, I think of Saccerine stuff, but La Luna was cute, but not to the point of Tastes Like Diabetes. The plot was neat, a father and a grandfather showing the son the family business, they teach him, and he learns to add his own personal mix. I loved it, great animation, and an interesting concept.

I think this movie should have been made by Dreamworks. That way People would give it the love it deserves...Ok, its not better than Up. But I did like it better. For being a Top-Tier best loved movie,I find Up pretty dissapointing.Seriously, you can stomach dogs flying airplanes? And I found Brave much better than what people are saying.

I liked Up, it's just... there's something about it that doesn't, like... you know?

/unlurk

Yeah...I dunno what it is, but when it comes to rewatches Up just hasn't done it for me. Was still a fantastic movie, of course.

That review was quite an eye-opener and I didn't think of half that stuff even as a fan of the film. I stick to my opinion that Brave was great, if plotwise flawed. I really don't know where I would rank it, though, because I like all of Pixar's movies (that includes Cars, but not its sequel since I haven't watched it).

edited 31st Jul '12 6:58:19 AM by Troliolio

That review is enough for me to want to go and see the film.

I have tried many times to rank the Pixar films, and I'm never satisfied with the results. Ask me what my favorite is, and it usually ends up a four-way tossup between Finding Nemo, Up, WALL-E and a fluctuating fourth party (A Bugs Life? Toy Story 3? The original Toy Story? Eh, screw it.) But I'd probably put Brave fairly high on my list so far.

Toy Story 2 is my personal favorite, followed by Monsters Inc All the rest are pretty much unsorted. Except Brave, which (unfortunately) goes at the bottom.

edited 1st Aug '12 2:32:49 PM by Mort08