Why are these "epic"?: Epic Song

In another thread, Aldheim said, "I admit it's a pet peeve, but I hate the overuse (and misuse) of 'epic' as an adjective." I agree, at least in the case of Epic Song. The definition seems really vague and subjective, but a determined troper succeeded in taking it off YMMV by speciously asserting that "epic" wasn't actually subjective.

Should this be subjective? Does it need a more solid definition, or a less clichéd name? Or should it just be cut?

That's...an odd trope. Almost any song could be considered epic to at least one person.

I say if we keep the page, make it subjective.

That definition is far too broad and vague.

It looks like it's a combination of other tropes that should probably be split. Massive Multiplayer Ensemble Number and Eleven O'Clock Number we have. Countermelody and the Crescendo thing is probably tropable as a music trope. And the bit where the lights black out at the end of the number should definitely be its own trope.

How about Showstopper? That's what these songs are.

Edit to add: Looks like it is defined as a supertrope to the Epic Song.

I am of the opinion that we dump Epic Song and put all of those examples in showstopper.

edited 27th Mar '11 7:39:02 AM by blackcat

I like that idea.

I thought I remember once hearing the term "epic song" refer to songs that are longer than 8 or 10 minutes... or something like that.

That's Epic Rocking.

Sure, but I believe the term "epic song" is used to refer to incredibly long pieces of modern music, too.

Perhaps we could list subtropes, like Gonna Fly Now Montage...

This appears to lack anything distinguishing it from other tropes. I suspect all examples can be merged with Showstopper with no problems.

I also hate "epic" being used in this way, by the way.

edited 27th Mar '11 2:55:48 PM by nrjxll

Did a Google search for "epic song" and got a bunch of colloquial uses and a page for the song Epic by Faith No More on The Other Wiki. Then I had to go find the CD and play the song.

I don't really understand the complaints about the trope's existence, the description lists several very specific points of what defines the trope.

A rename wouldn't hurt though, but I can't think of anything better.

How the heck did (s)he do that, when one of its major definition bullets says that it's subjective?!

Beacuse people dont get what the word epic means.

It's true that people don't know what "epic" means in this context. However, you've done nothing to clarify the definition besides repeatedly asserting that it's not subjective.

Still a very all-encompassing description.

I will be cutlisting this in a few days if the description isn't improved. (Once again, it did not help to remove the sentence, "This element is, of course, very subjective.")

I cut the description down to its clearest points, but I agree that this fully covered by Eleven O'Clock Number and Massive Multiplayer Ensemble Number.

edited 24th Sep '11 3:19:20 AM by Routerie

I see lots of different suggestions here, does this need more discussion or should we get a page action crowner?

Hmm, noob here. I need to know, is there a trope already for a case like this: In a movie, someone's desperately racing the clock to stop a bad thing from happening. The song "Holding Out for a Hero" plays, intensifying the situation.

Cuz if I didn't know any better, hearing the trope name "Epic music" would encompass such a case. Instead of how it's defined on that page. And it's a device used in many movies. If there isn't such a trope yet, it would be a good hijack of the title. But I'm sure there's got to be one already, so inform away please.

It's currently in YKTTW as "Climactic Music", for when the climax of the score corresponds to the climax of the plot.

edited 19th Oct '11 4:05:29 PM by troacctid

Ahhh, yes, thank you very much. I'm seriously amazed it doesn't have a firmly-planted long-standing trope page by now; it's always been a favorite part of movies whenever it happens.

Also, it really is a shame about "epic" being over-used so much... it's a great word, but is being just plain too far broadened lately. Like it's becoming this generation's "tubular" or "radical", which will make future folks cringe.

A real shame, such a waste of a great expressive word, dying from modern tendencies to exaggerate every single reaction to everything... *sigh*

Back to the main topic, it does indeed look like it could blend ambiguously with Massive Multiplayer Ensemble Number, The Song Before the Storm, and/or Show Stopper. Could go either of all ways, really... Though perhaps if "Climactic Music" solidifies, they may all go into that.

Edit: Something went in my head, and I searched for "Crowning Music of Awesome"... only to find it renamed to "Awesome Music." Ugh... why make a page for a mere opinion? The previous title, implying it's used effectively with a climax, would be a much more observable and functional trope, than a massively YMMV opinion, wouldn't it?

And it would have been the perfect place to put a LOT of these above mentioned ambiguous messes too...

edited 21st Oct '11 7:11:21 AM by ProfessionalBaby

That was the original definition of Crowning Music Of Awesome but it suffered extreme Trope Decay into Gushing About Music You Like, so it was changed to fit the misuse instead of trying to fix it.

Um... Wow... So, give the kid the candy so he stops throwing a fit in the middle of the store?

Not the best way to handle things.

Shouldn't they have been made to follow standards and have bad edits removed? Why ruin a very needed page for a pervasive trope?

Though I guess the new one in the suggestion thread thingie can be a replacement... a starting-over with better oversight this time?