What is your ideal society?

I liek Australia :3

It's self-sufficient thanks to being surrounded by fuck all, they lack the 'star system' which entitles celebrities and other assorted prima donnas to special treatment, there's no gun culture (despite the entire island trying to kill them), endless beachfront property, summer holidays... yeah.

Only problem is their television is shit.

edited 22nd Mar '11 9:36:30 PM by johnnyfog

Also censorship.

That falls under the umbrella of shitty entertainment.

In terms of reasonable and doable ideal societies, I would like a society similar to the USA today, but with simplified and streamlined laws that people are required to read once a year and sign off on (except that stuff that's irrelevant to them, such as corporate laws).

Also, absolute transparency of the government. There would be a channel to live-broadcast Congress meetings 24/7, and another one showing everyone what goes on in every part of the White House except the President's private living quarters. Sure, not many people would watch it, but it would always be there, and there would be a board making sure no one messed with the broadcast - the consequences for that would be very severe.

As for education, there would be an extensive education system that's run on vouchers that are required to meet Federal standards for math, science, English, and history. There would also be a strong cultural emphasis on being politically-minded, and all schools would be required to hold a civics class in which they make the kids read/watch/analyze a whole bunch of different news items from a variety of sources. There will be close regulators to make sure they aren't feeding them only one news network's content, but other than that the curriculum would be open-ended, and competition encouraged. Every person who qualifies will recieve funding for all their education up to a bachelor's degree. They may or may not qualify for private and/or public scholarships beyond that.

To avoid making this a plutocracy, there will be both a time and budget limit for political campaigns. Politicians are not companies; they don't need fancy advertisements. There will simply be a six month period when they can make their case and be done with it. Scheduled debates, during which a working/middle class candidate will be compensated, and that's it. Corporate funding will be forbidden; there will be a very low limit on private donations. However, there will also be a requirement to have studied law and history extensively in college (because everyone will go to college) to be a politician. It has to have been their major or minor.

There would be a strong and efficient welfare system which, coupled with a great education for everyone, aims at making welfare less necessary in future generations. Everyone would have enough for food, water, and a home for a small family, and access to the television or Internet in order to be informed about the world around them.

There would be tight environmental regulations and a strong push toward self-sufficient and clean energy. The government would invest heavily in scientific innovation, and hopefully the cutlure itself will slowly become rational enough to donate more to science.

Also, parenting licenses. Anyone who wants to adopt or have a child will have to be at least 21 years of age, go through extensive psychological screening, have a clean record, and be free from alcohol or drug addiction. Additionally, they will have to go through a class designed by developmental psychologists, and pass the final with a B or better. Any senior in high school will have the option to take this course and the test if they plan on having children in the future. If they don't, but want kids, then they can take it online or at a government institution. You have to wait at least one year to retake it if you fail the class once.

edited 22nd Mar '11 10:40:59 PM by OnTheOtherHandle

You say that like it turns a nation into a bunch of raving savages, give a little credit here, that's not the guns fault, that's all chalked up to fanatical Christianity. ;)

@Ardiente: Nonsense. I'll create minions to take care of that. It will be just like the Sims, only better.

I want my transhumanist commie fantasy. Like The Culture.

cracks knuckles

I'm not too attached to any personal vision of an ideal society, since I'm ignorant. The most important thing is to grasp toward deciphering what the Supreme Being wants for our society and doing that.

That out of the way, here are a few factors I consider most important:

There should be as few laws as possible within the basic constraint that humans are wicked, selfish creatures unfit for anarchy. Every law is another act of oppression. The temptation here is toward a theocracy like the Jewish kingdom before it was lost to the Romans. Having to obey 613 laws, which one could memorize, is much better than having to obey millions of laws and ignorance of the law being no excuse from punishment. However, there have been numerous attempts at theocracy that did not work as well as the Mosaic Law. A better solution might be an elected legislature that cannot create any new law without striking one from the code of laws, so that there is flexibility over time yet few enough laws for its subjects to remember.

Love being the highest virtue, having a monarch is better than not. Under monarchy and republic alike, kings reign in the people's hearts via fairy tale, classical drama, and epic. We might as well have one of flesh and blood too.

Education needs to be universal, compulsory, and based wholly on the classics (outside of math and natural sciences). The purpose of accumulating knowledge must be understood not as fitting one's children for the highest-paying jobs as cogs in an economic machine, but because knowing is the foundation to cultivation of virtue.

Education is a lifelong, open-ended process. The people should have lifelong access to rites and performances of the classics, via a state church, public theaters, and so on.

A decent provision for the poor is the true test of civilization. Sadly, the welfare office establishes perverse incentives against work, which become stronger as the welfare state becomes more generous. It should be replaced with parish charity, so recipients will be motivated by embarrassment to become economically self-sufficient again.

^*leaves thread tiptoing...* Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillando

edited 23rd Mar '11 12:11:33 PM by Ardiente

AW YEAH

Post-scarcity commie sounds fun too.

edited 23rd Mar '11 12:32:09 PM by SavageHeathen

Unfortunetly it doesn't sound feasable I don't think it would be right to enforce a communist society because property is actually very important.

Depends for whom. But it definitely shouldn't be forced on people. Right?

edited 23rd Mar '11 12:44:33 PM by Ardiente

: Only forced on people slowly for 5 generations.

Um, okay.

I thought it more to do with cloaking power in an aura of mystery, which is the real reason monarchy was conceived in the first place.

Besides which, if your object is to make the people 'love' the Dear Leader, you hardly need a throne for that. Remember JFK and Camelot? The reality of his administration (and Jackie O's personality) runs completely counter to the imagery that survives today.

Sir, the point is not to "make the people love the Dear Leader", but to make real life best conform to the ideals traditional tales point to.

^ Oh. I see. .....why?

[[strike:... I think it's the other way round... Tales reflect and affirm the values of the time they were written in. And-]]Whistles and tries to beat the world speed record for nonchalant walking...

Because this is called "What is your ideal society?" An ideal society, people could find joys in real life that they now only get in escapist entertainment. It's called "escapist" because people want to escape...

I don't think Disney made billions by reflecting democratic values.

edited 23rd Mar '11 2:07:09 PM by Rottweiler

On the other hand, I think Dreamworks did. Also,*cocks shotgun* Appeal to Popularity *BLAM*.

edited 23rd Mar '11 2:10:03 PM by Ardiente

^^ Follow the Leader makes it difficult to build an alternative to the monarchist myth, but I don't think it's impossible. Look at some of the work of Sergei Eisenstein, which builds an alternative communist myth that, among other things, lacks The Hero in the standard sense. (Then again, Stalin managed to co-opt him for the more conventional Alexander Nevsky and Ivan The Terrible, so . . .)

edited 23rd Mar '11 8:37:59 PM by feotakahari

And don't forget Gurren Lagann, where kings exist only to be deposed by the Ragtag Bunch of Misfits.

If we're talking historical ideals I'd go with Native American societies (specifically, Sioux, Inuit, Ehalmiut, or Iroquois) over European/Middle Eastern any day of the week. But I'm an anarchist like that.

A.NAR.CHYYYY! LET IT FLOW WILD AND FREE! Lol, can you share more data about those? I'm curious.

Changed my mind on the subject now. Regular western capitalist society is for me.

edited 13th Jan '18 1:13:07 PM by HellmanSabian