Split:: Have You Tried Not Being A Monster

The trope behind Have You Tried Not Being a Monster? is basically supposed to be fantastic homophobia, supernatural or magic as a metaphor for glbt ostracization.

However, people have started using it as Have You Tried Not Being Gay, which is related but a completely different trope, for instance, the laconic for it now says:

"Do you really have to be different? Can't you just be normal?"

Which leaves out any mention of the supernatural.

I've also seen it start to be used on non-fantasy and non-science fiction pages under mundane gay character story arcs (see Kurt Hummel's entry in the Glee character page).

This looks like Trope Decay is already in action and we need to nip this in the bud asap.

Since we don't have Have You Tried Not Being Gay, I suggest a split or a premptive launch to prevent trope decay, as this trope is supposed to be about a gay sensibility coming-out story as applied to a supernatural being.

Not sure about the "...Not Being Gay" part, if only for the Unfortunate Implications of singling out one group.

Something like Have You Tried Not Being A Monster vs. Have You Tried Not Being Different might work, though (one for supernatural differences, one for social/personal differences).

—R.J.

We should also do something about the Example as a Thesis.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Support for splitting.

Fight smart, not fair.

"Something like Have You Tried Not Being A Monster vs. Have You Tried Not Being Different might work, though (one for supernatural differences, one for social/personal differences)."

For social/personal differences, what would be the distinction for Why Couldn't You Be Different? and Have You Tried Not Being a Monster??

The way I see it, there are three variations here, that belong to an overall Otherness social Supertrope:

• Why Couldn't You Be Different? - Family/loved ones disappointed in person/rejects a person for a unapproved social or physical deviation from expectations. Supertrope that encompasses the two below.
  • Have You Tried Not Being Gay - Above, but specifically for GLBT persons. Subtrope.
    • Have You Tried Not Being a Monster? - A parody or metaphor or Does This Remind You of Anything? / Fantastic Racism version for the above (but usually specifically a glbt metaphor), but using supernatural/metahuman/mutant persons as a stand in for a rejected glbt person in an attempt to recreate the feeling of being rejected by one's loved ones for being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered. Subtrope of Why Couldn't You Be Different?, and sister/mutation of Have You Tried Not Being Gay

edited 8th Mar '11 2:54:28 PM by Zeta

I support the split. We really do need the mundane version of the trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

For the record, it was me who changed the laconic to the current one. The previous laconic was "Persecuted monster folk as a metaphor for homosexuality," which was incorrect because it doesn't have to necessarily be a metaphor for homosexuality to qualify for the trope (even if that's a common interpretation), so I tried to rephrase it to properly encompass the wider definition. Swap the words around if you like; I've obviously failed to capture the supernatural aspect of the trope.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I've seen some misuses aside from that (but I can't for the life of me remember where), so it's an issue that needs to be dealt with regardless.

It originally did have to be a metaphor for homosexuality until trope decay set it. Changing the laconic to keep up with the trope decay just made things worse. As did the lack of a needed supertrope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I only changed it, like, yesterday.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Honestly, the metaphor strikes me as unnecessary to the basic trope.

Fight smart, not fair.

Splitting the tropes is unnecessary because they'd be covering the exact same thing, only with one being a fantastical version of the other. The reason for Have You Tried Not Being a Monster? is exactly because of the Unfortunate Implications and often times serves as a gay/racial/etc metaphor. Regardless of how fantastic or mundane the examples are, they serve the exact same purpose. The page deserves a general cleanup maybe but shouldn't be split unless the number of examples grows to Apocalypse How proportions. Maybe split off fantastic and mundane examples withing the article itself, but that's it.

"Thorough preparation must lead to success. Neglect nothing."

I very much agree on that.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

If the metaphor isn't necessary, than what makes it different from just being another name for Why Couldn't You Be Different?? If you get rid of the metaphor, as has been slowly happening thanks to Trope Decay, than what differentiates these two tropes? Because I'm not seeing much besides that.

I think there's still a distinction, but I'm not sure how to phrase it. Mundane versus supernatural, perhaps.

Why Couldn't You Be Different? also carries the additional burden of cases where the parent forces the child to adopt the desired behaviors (despite that ultimately, this never works out).

Have You Tried Not Being a Monster? is currently written from the child's point of view once they notice the Tomato in the Mirror, which the parent may or may not already know about. If the parent doesn't know about it beforehand, then they have no grounds to lament Why Couldn't You Be Different? on. (At least for certain values of "different")

edited 9th Mar '11 10:46:27 AM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

So like a Perspective Flip of the same trope?

Perspective Flip is a good way of phrasing it, but it's not necessarily just that. When I hear HYTNBAM, I think the parents are taken aback at first but over time learn to accept it; whereas WCYBD the parents never come to accept it whatsoever.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

I also think Monster could be broadened to any one who's close to the monsterish character, rather than just family.

Fight smart, not fair.

^ Nakama? I can support that. WCYBD is specifically about the parents refusing to accept that their child didn't grow up to be what the parents wanted.

edited 11th Mar '11 8:06:06 AM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Friends, main characters, whatever.

Fight smart, not fair.

While changes are being proposed, how about changing this line:

> In some cases, this appears to be a way to introduce gay themes into a plot when they're too cowardly to introduce actual gay characters or when they feel that allegory or metaphor will be less likely to be censored.

Cowardice and fear of censorship are not the only reasons for using metaphor. Just say that this is a common metaphor and leave it at that, don't impose personal assumptions about why metaphor is being used.

Yes, if somebody wants to talk about what this represents, that's what the Analysis Namespace is for.

Fight smart, not fair.

I see a problem or two with what's going on here. Personally, I came to this trope expecting something along the lines of 'I'm sorry I'm a vamp/zombie/demon, but I'm a pretty good guy', not this as a metaphor for glbt. I mean, that way, I'm getting the Unfortunate Implication that vamp/demon/undead/mutant = glbt censored, which of course it's not. In fact, I'd rather this trope be leaning on Fantastic Racism vs Friendly Neighborhood Vampire or something along those lines.

edited 24th Aug '11 10:11:43 PM by MikaruKeiko

Until death do we part

I do too.

Fight smart, not fair.

So, shall we clarify this trope into something that derives further from it's glbt-indirectly censored roots or do a complete conversion out of the sexuality tropes and into the Friendly Neighborhood Vampire vs Fantastic Racism trope?

Until death do we part