Fetus to testify in Ohio court

What's Senate Bill 5?

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.

You know what's happening in Wisconsin? Basically the same thing. Restriction of bargaining rights, less sick/vacation days, a ban on public employee strikes, etc.

That's all I have to say because I don't want to derail the topic.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time

A heartbeat doesn't prove anything. Is this medieval times when people thought that one's soul was contained in their heart?

or is it?

No, that's the ancient Egyptians.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

I guess these people would tell the Tin Man he's a worthless emotionless monster.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.

: In the medieval people belived the soul was located in the liver, and that it was the most important organ :P

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.

I seriously doubt this will do anything for their case when the fact that fetuses have heartbeats is already known.

THANK YOU! I was looking for another arbitrary organ they could have chosen, and that works very nicely.

All I can say is, I'd like to call Daphnia pulex to the stand. If the presence of a circulatory system is a valid argument against killing something, then we're all goddamn monsters.

edited 3rd Mar '11 10:57:06 AM by Miijhal

And if the absence of a heart beat means it's okay to kill something, why would it be an act of terrorism if some fundamentalist were to kill Dick Cheney?

"That said, as I've mentioned before, apart from the helmet, he's not exactly bad looking, if a bit...blood-drenched." - juancarlos

"A heartbeat doesn't prove anything. Is this medieval times when people thought that one's soul was contained in their heart?" - uberdude

Soul nothing, the notion of a soul is just superstitious nonsense to begin with and should never be the basis for laws.

That said, belief in souls isn't necessarily implied by the idea of protecting insentient fetuses at the expense of sentient human beings; many say it's about the fetuses being "human lives" early in their development. I don't agree with it, but I do think this distinction should be kept clear.

I don't believe in souls personally, I was wondering if that is what people in Ohio think.

or is it?

Thanks to the progress of science,  ^*

a person can be declared "clinically dead" despite still having a heartbeat, because now it's brain activity that counts. Failure to discover this earlier resulted in the death of at least one baby awaiting heart transplant.

So this "testimony" doesn't mean anything and is just that easy to debunk.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

Yup. That's the great thing about believing in "Sophont Rights".

Makes things a lot easier. Is it sapient?

YES - It has rights.

NO - It's meat.

Edit: Actually, you know what, thumped, because I've realised this is offtopic. Sorry.

edited 8th Mar '11 2:47:12 AM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

It's not exactly black and white. But seriously considering that a child is a pretty grey area in the sapience stakes until they're about 5, I find the notion that a fetus is even ambiguously sapient patently ridiculous.

Also, there's laws against cruelty to animals. Just because something isn't sapient doesn't mean it's OK to be cruel to it. Cruelty is just an inherently bad thing.

If a fetus can get pregnant, drop out of fetus school and work a 9-9 job at a McDonald's inside the mother to support her fetus baby, it can damn well testify.

goodbye fetus college

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is no "big lie", there is no "system". The universe is indifferent.

Sapience is not the basis for human rights. Open up any legal textbook and you will not find one word about sense of self or perception of pain. At the moment a child is only legally classed as a legal person when it's born and breathing.

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@joeyjojo. I'm quite aware that sapience is not the basis for human rights. That is precisely the reason why legal three ring circuses like this happen, because people insist upon biological chauvinist definitions of a "person" that are going to make our descendants facepalm in embarrassment when they read about it in history class.

edited 8th Mar '11 3:10:30 AM by TibetanFox

They might as well let a picture of a cute newborn "testify".

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.

I don't necessarily agree with your assertion of "brain worship" from future generations. It is just as likely  ^*

that our children will look back in judgement and horror at our generation's "Silent Holocaust".

Today's youth  ^*

are a lot more likely to identify as pro life then those of recent years for example.

edited 8th Mar '11 4:32:07 AM by joeyjojo

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Freaking Ohio!

First Union busting, now this...

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My aunt lives in Columbus. The church and local politics are tightly intertwined; since most in that state are devout Christians, they vote the way the church tell them to, and the church said 'Vote Republican'.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

On a side note, it's things like this that make me think, on a bad day, that we should go invoke Outgrown Such Silly Superstitions

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I really don't see why people feel the need to bring religion into this, it's a hot button topic as it is.

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