Split: Crazy Awesome

Shouldn't there be an option for "keep the name the same, but remove the wrong wicks" in the crowner? There's been at least one instance where it was added in bold that the trope was something different than how it's normally used, which could also work. Crazy Awesome version 2 (the one which would actually be called "crazy awesome" in accordance with the leading crowner) is basically Awesome, but not in an expected way (or "crazy" in the broad sense of the phrase).

You could add that to the crowner, I guess, though the muddled nature of the description makes it hard to say which wicks are wrong.

I understand the logic behind not trying to make "crazy awesome" Objective given colloquial use/abuse of both terms.

But I really can't see how such a page can fail to be cutlisted as it will be nothing but gushing about shows you like. Isn't it just pointless to leave anything of the misused phrase? Or are we encasing it in a Not My Problem field?

edited 14th Apr '11 4:39:14 AM by OllyOllyOxenFrei

How about Awesomeness By Audacity?

Or Awesome By Insanity

As i said in the discussion thread for this trope way back: "Another issue is the the definiton of the word "awesome", because, to many people, insanity in fiction can easily equal awesome, simply becuase of it's eye-catching, sudden, unexpected little turns to hilarity. While indeed nice to watch and crazy by all accounts, these are not examples of insanity that works, and therefore not examples of this trope. for example, River's awesome is indeed tied to her craziness, but her insanity isn't one that works. The main reason the word awesome is used in the first place seems to be that it's an catch-all term that doesn't limit the examples because of the way in which the characters quirks take form. Which is also the source of the issue. In other words, this trope in it's current state is bound to be misunderstood pretty much no matter what. I do not, however, want to give up on this trope, because when the convuluted examples are out of the way, there are still examples of this trope that are legitimate. While i agree that the name is rather ingrained, we need a name that has components that aren't this vague. Of the top of my head, I suggest Pragmatic Insanity or an equivalent, to remove the possibilty of a dual meaning but still not limit the way in which the character's insanity works."

While part of this comment certainly no longer holds any importance in the discussion, I still stand by the opinion that "awesome" does not work. The reason this trope ended up where it did was because "awesome" is a positive exclamation applicable to just about everything. Double the problem when "crazy" is also used in the exact same fashion. I want a new name free of what made the first one doom the trope. Therefore, “awesome” is not an option, in my opinion. Useful as it may be in its status as applicable to any context, it just is not going to work. I want it open-ended, but without the subjective component inherent to the word.

edited 14th Apr '11 4:11:05 PM by Jakob

How about something like Success Through Insanity, then? Not as likely to spark gushing as "awesome" would, I think.

Yes, although I'd like it to be moved to the Sugar Wiki. Cutting it altogether would cause an uproar from the They Changed It, Now It Sucks! crowd that we don't need.

First, I vote Insanity Has Advantages for the new name. Second, I want to know exactly what will make the new tropes distinct (I'm going by the crowner, where split is winning).

The misused trope, Crazy Awesome, will get redefined to "rule of cool weird stuff taken up to eleven or whatever it's being used as now." That is wildly nonspecific. I know that's kind of the point, but can't we at least try to nail down a definition?

Second, the new trope will be defined as "a character is unpredictable because of their insanity." That would be distinct from Power Born of Madness in that the latter involves supernatural power, correct? Like an inversion of With Great Power Comes Great Insanity.

Not necessarily unpredictable, just effective. Such as someone with OCD being good at attention to detail, or a character with multiple-personality disorder being really difficult to interrogate. And you're correct about the distinction from Power Born of Madness.

Oh, cool, this is finally happening. I fully support. Insanity Has Advantages sounds good.

^^ I would say it's more "a character is extremely effective at what they do because they are completely crazy." Alternatively, Bunny-Ears Lawyer, except insane instead of just weird, and it's that insanity that makes them effective.

As for Crazy Awesome... what would the new definition be? "A character who is really awesome (and possibly crazy)"? Sounds rather... broad. And not actually like a trope, but I suppose Crowning Moment Of Awesome isn't either.

Ninja'd cause I took forever.

edited 28th Apr '11 6:19:46 PM by KrisMahai

Actually, it's the opposite of Bunny-Ears Lawyer. The Lawyer is successful despite his eccentricities. One of these guys, on the other hand, is successful because of them.

Actually there is a little bit of overlap between Crazy Awesome and Bunny-Ears Lawyer. The bunny ears lawyer is about how someone can be more than a little crazy but are otherwise so good at their job they remain employed. An individual who is crazy awesome is someone who manages to accomplish a great deal because their quirk gives them either advanced skills or sheer unpredictability. Someone can be CA and unemployed, a BEL can have skills with nothing to do with their quirk, a CA can remain employed because of their skills, a BEL may not be as effective at their job without their quirk.

The line in Bunny-Ears Lawyer stating it isn't intrinsic to their success is so that we keep out examples of "really quirky but good at their job" when their quirk doesn't ever bring them into conflict with their job.

I should think that there should be an option to split the subjective and objective into two different types of Crazy Awesome (as in Type 1 and Type 2). That should work too...

Does anyone think we can call this now? It hasn't really moved in a while.

I agree, the votes favour a split!

Split!

We still don't have any definition for the new Crazy Awesome trope other than "whatever people are using it as."

As far as I know, the new page is our proposed reworking. The old page is just getting abandoned to misuse - I don't think it's salvageable myself, and no one wanted to cut it, so we're just going to pretend it doesn't exist.

Though we'll probably want to re-tweak the description in order to give Insanity Has Advantages (or whatever we're calling it - crowner time, methinks) some breathing room. And maybe move the old trope to Sugar Wiki.

That sounds like a good idea. Crazy Awesome now is pretty much just gushing anyways...

I've mostly seen Crazy Awesome used as the character version Refuge in Audacity, which seems like as good a basis for the new definition as any. EDIT: And agree with the move to sugar wiki.

edited 18th May '11 8:10:59 PM by Discar

I support moving to Sugar Wiki for the subjective one, considering it is mostly gushing anyway. Insanity Has Advantages sounds good for the objective one; set up a title crowner?

Yeah, crowner's good. We may need to list our titling options, though, so we've actually got some choice to go with.

You know if its Sugar, we can't put it in YMMV tabs, right?

I have mostly seen Crazy Awesome as So Cool, It's Awesome by way of Refuge in Audacity. Seems Sugarable to me.