General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

I found it to be annoying Flanderization.

Ahh. Well no argument there. I think he's funny and charming at the very least, but really getting tired him being flanderized to looking like an idiot.

Can't really be flanderizing if this is a completely different Knuckles.

Even if it's an alternate universe, you expect the returning characters to have the same basic personality. Even Dante from Dm C Devil May Cry, as awful as he was, had some aspects of Classic Dante's personality (those aspects weren't executed well but that's another story entirely). As such, even if it's an AU, Shadow still suffered from Character Derailment and Knuckles still suffered from Flanderization.

EDIT: Sorry. Knuckles didn't suffer from Flanderization. He suffered from Character Exaggeration.

edited 24th Nov '14 3:39:55 PM by Zelenal

Exactly, everyone else's personalities are more or less based off their Sega counterparts, but have their different nuances to differentiate them.

Sonic goes from happy go lucky with some sass, to Straight Man with a lot of snarky moments. But the base characterization is still there, namely the snarky and laid-back aspects.

Meanwhile Knuckles goes from socially naive hothead to Dumb Muscle Cloudcuckoolander. I don't think those characterizations really correlate that well :V

edited 24th Nov '14 4:30:25 PM by BlackYakuzu94

well depending on who you ask sonic has been inconsistent for a long time. the genesis games+ sonic cd are usually considered pretty good, the adventures and heroes have a mixed reception nowadays, shadow the hedgehog and sonic 06 are near universally panned, colors and generations have a pretty good reception, lost world flopped and now boom is another one. it's been kind of a bumpy ride for him overall, i don't think sega has been very consistent in their handling of him, unlike nintendo which has pretty much guaranteed every "big" mario game to be of a generally high quality.

I think we can all agree that Archie is handling Sonic better than Sonic Team or Big Red Button are.

Seriously, read some of their storylines. If they put that shit into the games, we'd have a plausible continuity with recurring antagonists, and a child-friendly, yet consistent tone.

I especially like the "Genesis Wave" story arcs which I recently found out about - especially the one that crosses over with Megaman. Not only does the setting work, but it's malleable.

edited 24th Nov '14 9:18:48 PM by FOFD

Really? Sonic spends have those books moping and doing nothing. Has been that way for decades with Archie. There hasn't been a good Sonic comic since the issue Sally was supposed to die in, but they chickened out at the last moment.

Well, I think it did. They manage to wrap all the characters into one setting and keep a significant number of them relevant. They've made Super Sonic and Metal Sonic more than just a Super Mode and a bonus boss (and I really like rage!Super Sonic, a rather unexpected twist, that one). Sonic is developed as more of a person instead of just the walking embodiment of Rule of Cool Celibate Hero.

Admittedly that's not just Archie, but I've liked far more of the comic-exclusive characters and ideas than I have from the "Modern Sonic" era. Metallix, Titan Metal Sonic, Scourge, Ixis Naugus, the adaptions of the game storylines, the elaboration on Knuckles's species and what happened to them, the Anti-Freedom Fighters, the Genesis Wave, Mina Mongoose/Fiona Fox.

The comics go places the games usually don't: the Future Freedom Fighters, Robotnik actually going insane from his constant defeats, an evil-er Robotnik from another dimension, Sonic actually getting roboticized by Eggman, reality resets, etc.

edited 24th Nov '14 9:17:04 PM by FOFD

They also have some incredibly insane/retarded storylines. Do you know how they explained Sonic having green eyes? Because I do, and it was stupid beyond belief.

In the comics, Sonic is a sadsack who mopes about and spends more of his time angsting about his relationships than fighting evil scientists.

edited 24th Nov '14 8:17:43 PM by maxwellelvis

The comics have undoubtedly had their stupid moments, but at the moment I would honestly take Ian Flynn than anyone who's writing the games now. His stories are interesting, he actually knows how to write characters, and he expands on lore that Sega are content with just sitting on their asses about.

He's pretty much the only person at this point who can write Knuckles worth a damn anymore.

That was years ago and no longer applies.

edited 24th Nov '14 8:18:24 PM by BlackYakuzu94

But Flynn wrote a godawful 18 month storyline that nobody wanted to see, and drove people to drop Sonic all together it was that bad. And that was before it got forced into the Mega Man crossover.

...and then a Reboot happened.

Genesis Wave.

You mean the crossover that was generally liked :V Oh so terrible.

edited 24th Nov '14 9:24:13 PM by BlackYakuzu94

I heard nothing but hate for it.

Then obviously you need to check the internet more.

HA! Checking the Sonic fandom is just an invitation to tears. You're better off just finding one person who's been a long-time fan and seeing who agrees with them as your gauge.

To be honest, at least for the Sonic Boom show, I find Knuckles funny as an idiot. I found the gullibility more annoying(even if he always was like that from his first appearance) only because it's too often shoehorned in for plots. I can get falling for a different villain's scheme. You don't know them. Fair enough. Falling for Eggman's plot once, fine. Sonic X aside(since that's a different continuity technically, and to be fair, some of the moments do make some sense. ^note The first time, it really was Sonic who caused them to go into the world, with Eggman's help, mind you, but he didn't really bother thinking about the consequences. And Sonic is well known for this, so it's justified. However, X also gives a great explanation for it; Knuckles believes there's good in everyone, even Eggman, and he's right. Eggman clearly does show some good things in Season 3 later on, beyond willing to help save the world.)

Anyway, Knuckles being the most popular among all the classy folk in "My Fair Sticksy" actually was interesting, since he still was fine at acting polite, even if his word choices were poor. He made an attempt to mingle reasonably, despite this. The reason I like it so much is that he simply was himself and liked for that alone, a good message to send. That said, I did find him taking out glasses and then going "Oh, wait, I can't read" to be funny. It's a different approach, but the show is a comedy fest and I think it honestly works fine to a degree. It does look like Amy is going back to her "psycho" habits, though. My only real issue with it.

Knuckles only gets tricked 3 times...those other 2 times happen too early on to really make a deal about it.

That's not my point; You cannot flanderize his original characterization. He was always gullible. It's just used more often than it needs to be, even if it's not highly often, respectively. The only reason it's fine in X more than the games is that they justify it properly. It's never explained why he's gullible in the games. The likely explanation is that since he lives alone, the first person he sees is likely the most believable to him, which is not illogical either.

I think the only real time it looked jarring was during the Underground show, namely the second time he was tricked by Robotnik. First time, he really had no idea what Sonic and his siblings looked like or knew much information. But he knew Robotnik was evil afterwards. Second time, well... no excuse.

The main issue is how the person who is tricking him is portrayed. If they're portrayed as having a good side to them, I can understand him giving them a chance(this doesn't happen in Adventure 1, as Adventure 2 is about the first game that Eggman shows he actually has standards in the story), so that particular time he was tricked wasn't that logical. Although at least it's somewhat justified in-game that the Master Emerald pieces and Chaos Emeralds aren't beyond easy to tell apart. I forgot what color Sonic had at the time, though. If it was green, just like the ME's pieces, then there's little reason Knuckles should think Eggman is lying in that case. If not, then it's not hard to tell the colors apart(and I doubt he's color blind, although that would be a copout, yet make sense).

Sonic had the Green and Blue Emeralds...Knuckles only saw the green one which was all he needed to fully believe what Eggman had said.

Ah, makes perfect sense from his point of view.

Wasn't Adventure 1 the first game he acted hot-headed, though? That hasn't gone well for the guy, imo. Gullibility, eh, not severely bad. Hot-headed, can be funny sometimes(Sonic Battle especially). Being a pure idiot... well, that's really only in an alternate universe anyway(and even then, common sense isn't the exact same issue Boom!Knuckles has. He clearly has it, just not strict intelligence).

It wasn't really hot headed-ness completely, he wasn't acting on only impulse. He was doubting Eggman until seeing Sonic with the emeralds. Its really his only bad move.

Well, of course not.

But later games overexaggerated that. It's still the first time he showed that type of actual personality, I mean.