Atheist/Anti-theist/Agnostic Troper Group

Nah, that's a whole 'nother thought experiment. The version explored in the Egan stories is that a guy comes up with a set of rules—say a unique chemistry and physics framework—that can sustain more-or-less random interactions that, over time, can result in an analogue to biology, life, and eventually intelligence.

Caveat, I do believe he occasionally intervenes in the development of the intelligent simulated species, to encourage the development of some traits and inhibit others. When he does (no coincidence) it's usually in true Godlike form—shifting natural features to isolate groups that have developed traits he wants to inhibit, providing favorable environments to those with traits he wants to encourage, and so on. Things a primitive species would attribute to a deity if they detected the change, but also things that, later in their development, they would likely dismiss as myth.

And eventually when he does interact with them, at first they think he's pretty cool, but before long they generally adopt a stance of "You're a bastard for creating us, and we won't be subservient to you."

Why is it that so many random internet atheists I see online remind me of right wing conservatives?

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Do I remind you of a right wing conservative? Honest question.

No, definitely not.

I meant more in reference to the type of atheists that pop up on the internet that openly hate Muslims and call out the left for alleged "political correctness".

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I see. You can get some really strange mixes of beliefs in people. Stuff that you think is inherently incompatible ending up in a single head.

But I think part of the problem is a general belief that atheism is a rational philosophy. This is a stereotype. An atheist can be as irrational as any theist. And the belief system can coexist peacefully with all manner of prejudice.

It doesn't help when people say they're rational and proceed to lump all religions together as bullshit, but that's not what really gets me. What gets me is that I've seen people who comment on Facebook saying horseshit about people needing to stop being "politically correct" about Islam. These people were openly atheistic. I mean, even people like Bill Maher say shit like this. I genuinely used to like Bill Maher, but now I despise him (which is odd because my parents watch him all the time).

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Hm. Everyone on the planet has a unique belief system. I don't think it is wise to despise someone for a single difference of opinion.

Maher looks to have a real mix of beliefs.

I guess I'm just venting a bit about it. Like, I know these people aren't the majority of atheists, but they're the most vocal, and that's what gets me. Atheists won't get treated with respect because there's already so many of us who openly bash people for being religious. I know that it's impossible for atheists to agree on everything, but there's still a community. We're still disrespected and attacked for our beliefs, and yet this vocal minority only digs us in deeper. I just want atheists to be respected, but when I see these numbskulls preaching the same bullshit that bigots preach, I can't help but feel that we've got too far a path to walk.

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I tried watching Bill Maher a long time ago. Although I agree with most of his politics, I hated his on set performance, so I forgot about him.

I think Atheism is too broad a category to call a community. It is communities, like Christianity is communities. There are very few beliefs that unite the whole. Vastly religiously, politically and socially differing groups of atheists exist.

You only notice Random Internet Atheists when they act like right-wing conservatives. I go on a bunch of sites where I don't think anyone knows my (lack of) religion.

Well, if you don't belief in their supernatural claims, than you think those claims are bullshit. Just as Christians think Muhhammads claims are bullshit, Jews think Jesus' divinity is bullshit and pagans think YHWH is bullshit. The only difference is that atheists don't make an exception for one religion.

That is not universal to all atheists. I don't claim to be an expert, but I am a practising atheist. And I will remain one even if it turns out god exists. That is why I call myself an apatheist. An apatheist is a person who will not change their practice based on the existence or non-existence of a diety.

Such an atheist need not accept that other religions are bullshit, not in any of core beliefs, moral system, or practices.

Well, if it turns out God exist, you wouldn't remain an atheist unless you're delusional. You'd be a Nay-Theist. And all the claims can't be right, since some contradict each other. So everyone believes at least some claims to be likely bullshit.

And to clarify, I meant bullshit in their respective supernatural claims. Morality, practices and such are a different thing. You can find them bullshit or great, independently of accepting the supernatural claims. You can believe in the Abrahamic God and find sex before marriage acceptable. Or you can disbelieve in God but find sex before marriage unacceptable.

"Ah, yes, I've had a personal relationship with God ever since He revealed Himself to me"

*Gilligan Cut to them flipping off the sky* "FUCK YOU!"

Whether or not I am an atheist depends on whether or not belief in god entails worship of god. But my claim was that I was a practising atheist. And yes, any type of atheist is free to think that the morals and practices of a religion are swell.

I was mostly trying to speak in reference to a lot of atheists who say a lot of shit that's borderline right wing derogatory bullshit. Like, I follow George Takei on Facebook, and there's quite a few people who comment shit about how Takei is stupid for supporting Islam despite being gay (and at least one person telling him to go to Saudi Arabia and see if he still supports Islam). I've actually ranted a bit about it to a user on here who is Muslim, and he told me that Saudi Arabia is pretty fucked up and he doesn't support them.

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Saudi Arabia is basically the Muslim equivalent of what the Tea Party are trying to turn America into the Christian version of.

Pretty much.

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Unlike peanut butter and chocolate, getting religion in your politics never ends well. People who confuse countries for religions are best ignored for a bit.

The problem is it goes both ways. Other people label any criticisms of Islam as bigotry (Islamophobia) and hatred toward Muslims as individuals. Bill Maher has said some dumb things, no doubt, but this exact reaction happened in autumn 2014 when Sam Harris was on (again, I'm not defending everything he said) and they tried to criticize Islam. Ben Affleck, another guest, basically spent all the time calling both of them racist for even bringing it up. It doesn't matter if you're an ex-Muslim, or even a Muslim yourself either. Then you're just labeled traitors, etc. See Maryam Namazie, Maajid Nawaz and others.

I mean, we can criticize Christianity and Islam like any belief. Hell, we can criticize atheism while we're at it. I don't doubt there are reactionaries who'll freak out over those criticisms. What I remember of what Afleck was saying, though, was that he was annoyed that Maher and Harris were basically saying "this amount of Muslims are bad" and lumping them all together. I don't know what statistics Harris was pulling from, so I can't comment on it. I mean, the whole incident was BS anyways, because neither of them were in the right. I'm just more annoyed that the public perception of atheism rests on the shoulders of people who make atheists look bigoted and hypocritical by their actions.

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Well from what I remember, they always denied his accusations. As I recall, Harris cited actual polling data to support what he said (of course, this is not full-proof). I've always remembered him acknowledge that not everyone supported that, and indeed the fact not everyone done has been a specific point at times. I don't think they were equally in the wrong, to put it mildly. As to public perception, unfortunately that seems to happen with every group.

It just keeps feeling to me that atheism gets it worse compared to Islam and Christianity, and I think that's mostly because there's less vocal atheists and the rest either don't give a shit or keep it to themselves.

I have enough of a beef with Harris over him apparently wanting to racially profile Muslims. I remember Rational Wiki calling him out on it. They have an article on him where there's an entire section saying "Guess whether Harris or this person who is a rabid anti-immigrant nutcase said it" (I forget the name of said person), and nearly all of them, to my knowledge, were straight from Harris's own site.

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That's because unlike those atheism is only connected by a lack of belief. It's not as tight of a bond, and doesn't stir as much among people I guess.

Oh yes, there's plenty of legitimate criticisms to make about Harris. No doubt about that.

I think I've mentioned it before, but out of the famed "Four Horseman" that were the leading voices of Nu Atheism (Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett), only Dennett seems to be a nice guy and not a hateful asshole.

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