Why do people think Estrogens are female hormones?

Estrogen Brigade and Mr. Fanservice both use estrogen to associate to women.

But estrogen masculinizes. Estrogen is what makes one a male. Estrogen is what makes certain animals develop male territorial behaviours.

Females are females because they are protected from estrogen thanks to alpha-FP.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:32:24 PM by Signed

"Estrogen is what makes male"

That is the most awkward sentence I have ever read.

As to why, I'm guessing mass media is to blame.

Methinks you've got estrogen and testosterone mixed up.

Relevant parts:

Testosterone is a steroid hormone from the androgen group and is found in mammals, reptiles, birds, and other vertebrates. In mammals, testosterone is primarily secreted in the testes of males and the ovaries of females, although small amounts are also secreted by the adrenal glands. It is the principal male sex hormone and an anabolic steroid.

In men, testosterone plays a key role in the development of male reproductive tissues such as the testis and prostate as well as promoting secondary sexual characteristics such as increased muscle, bone mass and the growth of body-hair.

Estrogens (AmE), oestrogens (BE), or œstrogens, are a group of compounds named for their importance in the estrous cycle of humans and other animals, and functioning as the primary female sex hormones.

While they are found in both men and women, they have different effects on them. Class dismissed.

That is a gross oversimplification of a very complex endocrine layout.

Estrogen is considered the primary female hormone simply because it is the primary female sex hormone, not because it has female exclusivity. It is also a key factor in bone growth and the fact that males create estrogen though conversion of surplus testosterone once saturation is reached is one of the reasons why girls get taller faster than boys. Likewise testosterone is the primary male sex hormone even though it is located in both sexes.

Needless to say nothing is as simple as we were taught in grade school. The Bohr model of the atom anyone?

edited 19th Feb '11 8:44:43 PM by Shrimpus

^^...It's so hard to find a short enough piece discussing this issue that also tells the relevant parts.

^ But estrogen is what determines you are a male! Females are females because estrogens are blocked off during their development thanks to alpha-FP.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:49:31 PM by Signed

Yes... and when we are fetuses we have three chambered hearts and a tail. Needless to say, many things in the womb are different than they are once you breath air.

^^ From wikipedia:

In mice, oestrogens (which are locally aromatized from androgens in the brain) play an important role in psychosexual differentiation, for example, by masculinizing territorial behavior;[16] the same is not true in humans.[17] In humans, the masculinizing effects of prenatal androgens on behavior (and other tissues, with the possible exception of effects on bone) appear to act exclusively through the androgen receptor.[18] As a result, the utility of rodent models for studying human psychosexual differentiation has been questioned.[19]

Shit is made more complicated with the stuff doing different things for different species.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:51:11 PM by nightwyrm_zero

But if something's function is to masculinize, wouldn't it be wrong to label estrogen as female hormones?

Almost everybody thinks that estrogen is what determines someone is female and they are female because of the estrogen, when in fact, they're female because they had alpha-FP to block them off.

So I'm not a zombie?

...what?

That is a separate point from what the OP is making. That process you are highlighting there is a trio of hormone baths that determine phenotypic behaviors and gene activations.

The first surge determines whether or not the fetus develops as a phenotypical male(missing this surge is what produces genetic males with female bodies that various stupid TV shows love to feature). The second and third are subject to conjecture and experiment but last I checked we didn't have much in the way of solid evidence though there is some promising stuff that points to the second surge having something to do with male and female mindset.

EDIT: NO, estrogens function is NOT to masculinize. That is one function that it has at one time in one specific place in the human embryonic development. It has like 9 functions we know of and more are cropping up every day. Just like testosterone.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:55:33 PM by Shrimpus

disregard, I don't know enough about biochemical pathways to talk seriously about this.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:56:15 PM by nightwyrm_zero

So your question is essentially "why are people ignorant (about this specific topic I know about)?"

Because there's too much information available to learn it all, and people are lazy to boot.

Hmmm, perhaps I am out of touch with modern research.

But to go back to the tropes named...I can see the point about Estrogen Brigade (which is probably a snowclone), but Mr. Fanservice is still a valid name, given the nature of the trope.

The whole point is that it's about Fanservice for in the form of hot guys...and regardless of what other effects it has, estrogen is still the primary sexual hormone in women.

...if you were to simplify it and sum it up in one sentence...

Estrogen masculinizes one into a male and blocking off estrogens results in a female.

How hard is that to understand? Plus, this is low level biology...in fact, I think they taught this even in science classes (before we start specializing in either of the 3 branches).

It's just kinda baffling how a chemical that is responsible for making you into a male is considered as the girly hormone.

edited 19th Feb '11 8:59:36 PM by Signed

1) This is a gross oversimplification of what goes on. Sex determination is a bit more complicated than "because estrogen."

2) In adult females, estrogen is produced in greater quantities and has greater effects on the reproductive system than in males. This is why testosterone is also considered "the male hormone," even though it is also produced by both sexes.

NO! That is wrong. If I was forced to sum up one of the most complex systems in the human body in one sentence I would say that Estrogen is a multifunction endocrine hormone that has a primary purpose as a female sexual determinant in the mature human.

And estrogen is considered the girly hormone because if you are a man and you want to change genders you get testosterone blockers, and estrogen injections. And you get your balls lopped off. If you are going in the other direction. Welcome to testosteroneville.

Edit: Estrogen was originally named thus because it is one of the primary inducers of estrus. IE ovulation. Testosterone was thus named because it comes from your balls. It seems to me self evident why the current associations are in place.

edited 19th Feb '11 9:04:54 PM by Shrimpus

Wouldn't Alpha Fetoprotein be the ideal substance to be labelled as the girly chemical instead though?

That's the thing that's prevented girls from becoming males during development.

edited 19th Feb '11 9:01:46 PM by Signed

When you find your ectoderm let me know.

Well, my ectoderm is...completely different from what it originally was by now...so it's not even an ectoderm anymore.

I guess it just baffled me how people kept making jokes like "his mother must have produced too much estrogen while carrying him, that's why he acts like such a girl hur hur hur!"

edited 19th Feb '11 9:04:43 PM by Signed

Good to know that we are recognizing the difference between embryonic development and the mature human. And I will keep your statements in mind if I ever hear that joke.

Edit: Actually... sad as I might have to make you... that might be exactly what happened.

edited 19th Feb '11 9:08:06 PM by Shrimpus

Except the Estrogen Brigade isn't so named because they are girly; it's so named because they are female and horny. How is estrogen not the perfect namesake for that?

Just because estrogen is the more masculine hormone in one case doesn't get rid of the fact that nearly every other time it pops up in biology it's the female hormone.

Testosterone comes mainly from a man's testes, and is responsible for causing a deep voice, facial hair growth, and basically everything that happens to a man during puberty.

I'm not totally sure where estrogen comes from (best guess would be the ovaries), but it's responsible for breast growth and ovulation.

^^ And estrogen is associated with male libido along with sperm concentration (not amount, just concentration...as in preventing them from being too dilute).

While it does a lot of things for females, breasts and other female sexual characteristics, it plays a vital role for males sexually as well.

...and for some reason, way too many sites are talking about erectile dysfunction and how to prevent/cure it... It's not even that widespread a problem for the entire population.

edited 19th Feb '11 9:38:41 PM by Signed

Your best guess Mr. Humor would be pretty much correct. As to the lovely Signed all hormones except possibly luteinizing hormone have functions in both sexes. The human body is not exceptionally fond of creating new things when something it already has will do the job for half the cost. Even FSH has some male functions.

As for erectile dysfunction.... well suffice it to say that has been a human obsession for longer than time. Much to the dismay of Rhinoceros every were. Testosterone does make you more... well... hmmm, masculine isn't the right word... well it is... ugh... look.. its a complex issue.