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Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker
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Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker:

 1551 Derelict Vessel, Thu, 31st May '12 3:11:27 PM from the Ocean Blue
Flying Dutchman
That's the point, Ace. You get all the opposition out of the way that you can, and you let them destroy everything. And then at that point, if people are still voting for them, you can comfortably write the State off as a total loss (i.e. Alabama) and move on until such a time where you can come back and drag the place out of Hell.

It's not as if the Left—the real Left, not the Democratic Party—is any stranger to this tactic. A variation of it has been used by the Right for decades—using the Soviet Union as a proxy for American Leftists—to discredit any and all progressive movements here. It's gotten to the point where progressives really can't begin to contend against the amount of money and effort arrayed against them. So the next best thing is to get out of the way and let all the fools crash into the brick wall they've been building for fifty years.
"Can ye fathom the ocean, dark and deep, where the mighty waves and the grandeur sweep?"

 1552 Radical Taoist, Thu, 31st May '12 3:30:00 PM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
The citizens born in the next fifty years won't thank us for letting these people ruin their educational and social infrastructure (among a great many other things).
 1553 Aceof Spades, Thu, 31st May '12 3:32:14 PM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
What Radical said. It's a lot harder to fix things once they've been broken than to prevent them from happening. The whole "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" thing tends to be true in politics.
 1554 Derelict Vessel, Thu, 31st May '12 3:38:25 PM from the Ocean Blue
Flying Dutchman
The citizens born in the next fifty years won't thank us for letting these people ruin their educational and social infrastructure (among a great many other things).

And with what do you propose we fight such attempts, in the face of essentially limitless funding and a bought-and-paid for government? We've gone from the days of FDR and LBJ to a society where anything to the Left of Ronald Reagan GOP Jesus is considered "socialist" and is to be shunned and stamped out be a super PAC wielding enough funding to sink one of our myriad multi-billion dollar supercarriers. "Lopsided" is so hilariously weak an adjective to describe the current Left-Right dichotomy in the United States it's sickening.

We have nothing left to oppose the Right with, if the populace is going to be stupid. Well, at that point, I say the only thing left is to let the Right hit them head on. Maybe they'll learn their lesson then.
"Can ye fathom the ocean, dark and deep, where the mighty waves and the grandeur sweep?"

 1555 Aceof Spades, Thu, 31st May '12 3:48:33 PM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Christ, if you're not Flyboy under another account I'm going to be very surprised.

Look, we already have the tools necessary. Many Democrats and other leftists are using them. The thing is, using any tool to change anything TAKES SOME DAMN TIME. Hell, the economy is improving, many people have noted that, and they know it's not going to happen as fast as they would like.

Yes, things are lopsided. No, they are not completely hopeless. For one, the recall in Wisconsin is happening anyway. For second. Well, for second goes completely off the topic of the Wisconsin recall. Suffice to say that we already have the tools at our disposal. To accelerate the Right's actions is not only foolhardy, it's fucking stupid and guarantees all the bad things will absolutely happen that you've been arguing against. It's fucking irresponsible and a shitty thing to do if you're truly a liberal.
 1556 Radical Taoist, Thu, 31st May '12 3:55:12 PM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
And with what do you propose we fight such attempts, in the face of essentially limitless funding and a bought-and-paid for government?
Fight dirty. Large amounts of money is very good at buying advertising time. It's not quite so effective at fighting mass boycotts, switching to co-ops/credit unions/alternative industries, sit-ins, general strikes, civil disobedience campaigns, and alternative media campaigns.

In my wilder fantasies, I imagine a large portion of the population setting up an alternative economy of co-operatives across the country and literally dropping out of every industry that funds regressive politics: oil, agriculture, media, finance, the works. Then I read up on the Great Depression, see how much of the country was effectively operating on a localized barter system, and realize we might have to do that whether we like it or not.

edited 31st May '12 3:55:49 PM by RadicalTaoist

 1557 Derelict Vessel, Thu, 31st May '12 3:56:16 PM from the Ocean Blue
Flying Dutchman
Christ, if you're not Flyboy under another account I'm going to be very surprised.

I believe I know who you're talking about. He hasn't been here in quite awhile, however.

Look, we already have the tools necessary. Many Democrats and other leftists are using them. The thing is, using any tool to change anything TAKES SOME DAMN TIME. Hell, the economy is improving, many people have noted that, and they know it's not going to happen as fast as they would like.

I wasn't really talking about the short game. Of course this particular economic crisis will eventually subside. That doesn't change the underlying and continuing problems that created it, which aren't going to be addressed so long as the people backing their continuation are the one's predominantly with all the money.

Yes, things are lopsided. No, they are not completely hopeless. For one, the recall in Wisconsin is happening anyway. For second. Well, for second goes completely off the topic of the Wisconsin recall. Suffice to say that we already have the tools at our disposal. To accelerate the Right's actions is not only foolhardy, it's fucking stupid and guarantees all the bad things will absolutely happen that you've been arguing against. It's fucking irresponsible and a shitty thing to do if you're truly a liberal.

Of course it's a terrible thing. It is, to borrow a military term, an weapon of last resort. It's also basically hypothetical, because it requires a kind of ideological discipline and organization among progressive elements that simply does not and will not ever exist in reality. I am primarily bringing it up because it is very, very likely that Scott Walker will continue to be the Governor of Wisconsin after June 5. So likely, in fact, that I would bet quite a bit of money on that eventuality. Such is what reminds me of the strategy; no more, no less. At the end of the day, the country is going to go on, with a relatively small number of actual progressives stuck with a whole bunch of center-Right conservatives dealing with reactionary regressives waving Tea Party flags and screaming some unintelligible nonsense about homosexuals being deviant and Mexicans stealing their jobs.

Fight dirty. Large amounts of money is very good at buying advertising time. It's not quite so effective at fighting mass boycotts, switching to co-ops/credit unions/alternative industries, sit-ins, general strikes, civil disobedience campaigns, and alternative media campaigns.

Your vision of what "fighting dirty" means is rather different from my own, but I'm very much so a believer in the idea that the only time you fight a political war cleanly is when it isn't a war worth fighting.

In my wilder fantasies, I imagine a large portion of the population setting up an alternative economy of co-operatives across the country and literally dropping out of every industry that funds regressive politics: oil, agriculture, media, finance, the works. Then I read up on the Great Depression, see how much of the country was effectively operating on a localized barter system, and realize we might have to do that whether we like it or not.

That is wild. Not entirely disagreeable, but wild.

edited 31st May '12 4:08:25 PM by DerelictVessel

"Can ye fathom the ocean, dark and deep, where the mighty waves and the grandeur sweep?"

 1558 They Call Me Tomu, Thu, 31st May '12 4:34:44 PM Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sureeeeendaaaa
Off-hand Comment:

The Koch Brothers have basically been funding Walker this whole time. Thinking about "Super Koch Bros" as some kind of parody, I went ahead and created an image of the two wearing the hats of Mario and Luigi.

But in retrospect, it's really not demeaning to be compared to Mario and Luigi. Oh well.

 1559 Radical Taoist, Thu, 31st May '12 5:04:48 PM from the #GUniverse
 1560 They Call Me Tomu, Thu, 31st May '12 5:05:26 PM Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Sureeeeendaaaa
Yeah, that was ultimately the conclusion I reached as well.

They're still asking people to phonebank voters. Especially if you're a Wisconsin resident yourself, you ought to give it a try.

For more information on recall-related news and campaign activities: http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Badger%20State%20Progressive/

Highlights:
  • the "Deer Czar" story, where the Walker administration plans to make hunting far more expensive, and where Walker's new "Deer Czar", a Texan, has called publicly-managed game lands "communism", is starting to catch fire.
  • two debates have been held between Barrett and Walker. One notable soundbite from the second is this.
  • Walker has recently transferred another $100, 000 to his legal defense fund relating to the John Doe investigation.

How to bust myths from the Walker campaign regarding budget surpluses, jobs numbers, and cooperating with the John Doe investigation: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/01/1096235/-Walker-s-Top-3-Myths-Busted-by-Kathleen-Vinehout-the-BLS-and-the-Milwaukee-Journal-Sentinel
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 1562 Enkufka, Fri, 1st Jun '12 5:20:24 PM from Bay of White fish
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
@Glenn: I've volunteered for tomorrow and monday to do stuff. I do know I'm phonebanking saturday, but I can't remember what I'm doing monday.
Very big Daydream Believer.

"That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray

"Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Mad props to you.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 1564 Linhasxoc, Fri, 1st Jun '12 6:32:59 PM from Flanoir Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
I'm doing two hours of phone-banking on Sunday.

 1565 Aceof Spades, Fri, 1st Jun '12 7:21:33 PM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
 1566 Enkufka, Fri, 1st Jun '12 7:25:42 PM from Bay of White fish
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
Calling up democratic/liberal (leaning) known voters and reminding them to vote.
Very big Daydream Believer.

"That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray

"Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
 1567 Enkufka, Sat, 2nd Jun '12 11:03:53 PM from Bay of White fish
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
Got back from the phone banking at about 6:30-7-ish, was exhausted.

But that's not my big news.

And pardon my expletives, but Jesus Christ, Mary mother of God, Joseph!

Scott Walker apparently had An out-of-wedlock child when he was in college! O_o

And this isn't a tabloid story, though it sounds like it, this comes from Doctor Bernadette Gillick, known for her research into how the brain recovers from injury!

edited 2nd Jun '12 11:08:30 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer.

"That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray

"Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Gunpla is amazing!
Super Duper Thread Hop.

According to the newest Time Magazine, apparently Scott Walker's recall election has been the best thing to happen to him and he'll likely win and become a republican hero in the process.

edited 2nd Jun '12 11:14:02 PM by Thorn14

 1569 Linhasxoc, Sat, 2nd Jun '12 11:37:02 PM from Flanoir Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
[up][up] This has "another hoax" written all over it, but wow. If this story gets traction, that could be a game-changer.

 1570 Aceof Spades, Sat, 2nd Jun '12 11:50:40 PM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
So many politicians have out of wedlock children that I truly don't really care about those kinds of stories anymore. It speaks to their hypocrisy as regards family values, but doesn't seem to hurt many of them.
 1571 Rationalinsanity, Sun, 3rd Jun '12 6:37:12 AM from Nova Scotia, Canada Relationship Status: Not war
Chew Toy
I doubt it will have an impact if the major news outlets don't pick it up. Its too late in the game anyway, though this probably will adversely impact Walker's chances of ever seeking federal office.

 1572 Bokhura Burnes, Sun, 3rd Jun '12 7:53:45 AM from Inside the Bug Pit
Radical Moderate
Seems like a mis-reporting:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/03/1096950/-Woman-Denies-Walker-Fathered-Baby-JSO-Reporter-Daniel-Bice
You're a wallflower. You see things. You keep quiet about them. And you understand.
 1573 Enkufka, Sun, 3rd Jun '12 8:19:05 AM from Bay of White fish
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
Alright, hysteria retracted.

My apologies. >>;
Very big Daydream Believer.

"That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray

"Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
 1574 Derelict Vessel, Sun, 3rd Jun '12 8:28:58 AM from the Ocean Blue
Flying Dutchman
Perhaps we should go with a new rule of "no reporting scandals about Walker unless it's on TMJ4 first."

edited 3rd Jun '12 8:29:21 AM by DerelictVessel

"Can ye fathom the ocean, dark and deep, where the mighty waves and the grandeur sweep?"

 1575 Enkufka, Sun, 3rd Jun '12 8:29:52 AM from Bay of White fish
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
good rule.
Very big Daydream Believer.

"That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray

"Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Total posts: 1,740
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