Since discussions of it are cropping up out of Tabletop Games, here's an all-purpose thread for players and GM's.
Turns out the others in my group were not entirely aware I'm playing a human...because my human was raised by halflings and identifies as one, so her dialog and manner and all are more halfling-like. still, the picture of the party another person drew has her at 5'8'' so......
Got a degree in Emotional trauma via fictional characters aka creative writing. hosting S'mores party in Hell for fellow (evil) writers
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Maybe they just thought you were a rather tall halfling.
A fullling if you will.
"We're home, Chewie."no, the group members literally forgot I was a human. then one of them was like " ok, Miri, so you ride with Runa (a dwarf) on Lilac Deathhooves..."
"Um, Lilac's a sheep. A big sheep (a battle ram), but I don't think that will work."
"but Nabs(Kobold) and Runa both fit last time?"
" Yes, but I'm around 4 feet taller than Nabs."
"What?!"
Got a degree in Emotional trauma via fictional characters aka creative writing. hosting S'mores party in Hell for fellow (evil) writers
Sharknado Warning
Anyway, it's just a fun thing from a thread pointing out funny rules things in various system (Such as how thrown weapons were OP in 2nd ed, but became useless in 3.X and Pathfinder)
Sharknado Warning
Here's an another one from 3.5 This one is still true as it was never patched. What's the worst weapon for a monk? The unarmed strike. Monks are not proficients in punching:
Of course, all this can be fixed with one little feat: Improved Unarmed Strike, which not only prevents you from provoking Ao Os when making unarmed attacks against armed opponents, but also allows you to deal lethal damage with your unarmed attacks and make Ao Os in any situation that provokes them as though you were armed. With one little feat, anyone can throw a punch!
Well... not quite. There remains the question of proficiency. Proficiency back in 2e was an optional set of sub-rules wherein you received a certain number of proficiency slots at first level and then an additional proficiency slot every X levels depending on your class. Proficiencies were broken into Weapon Proficiencies and Nonweapon Proficiencies but for the purpose of this example we'll be talking about the former (though the latter is the foundation for 3e's skill system). Your weapon proficiency slots could be spent making you proficient with individuals weapons, such as the longsword or bow (or the glaive, voulge, guisarme, glaive-guisarme or guisarme-voulge). If you weren't proficient in a weapon, you took a penalty to your attacks with it based on your class, with warriors only receiving a -2 penalty since they were supposed to have a passing familiar with all weapons, priests and rogues receiving a -3 penalty and wizards receiving a -5 penalty.
In 3e they switched the system around somewhat, grouping weapons into a series of three basic categories: Simple, Martial and Exotic. Simple weapons required little to no training to use, while martial weapons required a more combat-oriented approach and exotic weapons almost always needed specialized training in order to wield one. Using a weapon you weren't proficient with resulted in a -4 penalty to your attacks made with it. Classes would then be assigned various proficiencies- most of them received proficiency in simple weapons, with combat-oriented classes such as fighters and barbarians also receiving martial weapon proficiency on top of that.
Unarmed strikes are simple weapons, which means that any class proficient in simple weapons can use them without penalty. Simple weapon proficiency is a feature of all classes in the game save for two which are denied any sort of unarmed proficiency. One of those classes is the wizard, a master of arcane magic who usually eschews the physical arts of war. The other class is the monk, a master of martial arts.
Let's take a look at the wizard. While many classes are proficient with simple weapons, the wizard is only proficient with a subset of the group.
SRD posted: Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff
Note that this does not include the unarmed strike. I guess this makes some sort of sense, since they're scholars, not brawlers (though their sorcerer companions do receive simple weapon proficiency and can thus punch dudes out even if they're about as combat-capable as wizards).
But things make considerably less sense when you have the monk. The monk is also proficient with a distinct set of weapons.
SRD posted: Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, and spear.'''
Note that this doesn't include the unarmed strike either, which makes considerably less sense when you include the fact that monks get Improved Unarmed Strike and a scaling damage with their unarmed attacks to represent the fact that they are masters of unarmed combat. It's a conflict between the rules as they are literally written and the rules as they are obviously intended, but the simple fact is that someone forgot to put the unarmed strike as a proficiency on the 3e monk, and since the monk only has a limited and closed list of proficiencies rather than a category of proficiencies, the monk is technically not as good at fighting unarmed as the rest of its class features would lead you to believe.
And this was never patched because, well, everyone just assumes monks are proficient at unarmed strikes. Which they are not.
edited 26th Mar '15 3:46:16 PM by CobraPrime
Citizen
Are you sure? I was positive that part of the Monk class description included "At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat."
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
I could have sworn Monk Unarmed Strike was a specific weapon proficiency monks had. It's the same reason why they couldn't use flurry of blows with unarmed strikes and two-weapon fighting.
Compare this with 4E that, yes, explicitly has Monk Unarmed Strike as its own weapon proficiency (that's 100% useless almost because monk powers are implement powers...)
Sharknado Warning
He does. but that feat doesn't give proficiency. From the SRD:
In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option.
Normal Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.
Special A monk automatically gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level. She need not select it.
A fighter may select Improved Unarmed Strike as one of his fighter bonus feats.
It lets you hit harder, and not get hit in the face whole doing it, but not lose the -4 penalty for lack of proficiency.
edited 26th Mar '15 4:13:42 PM by CobraPrime
Lost in Space
It's yet another case of design intent versus design wording. Nothing in the Monk description says that it is proficient with unarmed strikes. That this is ridiculous is patently obvious. In fact, it is plausible to read the intent of the rules as saying that unarmed strikes require no proficiency at all; everyone is automatically proficient in them and thus it would be redundant to list them in the text for any given class.
Again, though, we're talking about ridiculous literalism applied to the rules.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sharknado Warning
It gets better when you get to Pathfinder, who fixed the above hole, but added a bunch more. They introduced a ton of "Monk weapons" specifically usable with the monk class features - but the monk has proficiency in only a few of them. Thus, the Monk Spade is a weapon the monk stares at and wonders how to use it without a specific feat. But since it's a martial weapon, the barbarian who has never heard of it can grab it and go on a rampage.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You have to admit, that for the ridiculous number of erratas and revision 3rd edition had, and 3.5 too. It's kind of a glaring hole "Monk is not proficient in the trademark weapon the entire class is built around." :-P I wouldn't call it literalism (Like trying to spot the sun), it's simply looking at weapon proficiency.
edited 26th Mar '15 4:23:28 PM by CobraPrime
Here's a patch:
Your fist counts as two different weapons, a swiping fist, a simple weapon, and the striking fist, a martial weapon. Appropriate damage is assigned to them, with a swiping fist being as it is base and the striking fist does more damage. These both still count as unarmed strikes.
The striking fist has special rules. If you're not proficient in it, it incurs even greater penalties, like decreased to-hit and/or decrease AC during the Ao O if you miss, representing the squishy wizard overextending himself when he threw too much into that punch.
Improved Unarmed Strike has the added prerequisite of proficiency in the striking fist, which martial classes, of course, get automatically and monk get both of.
Their also exotic fist weapons that do all kinds of weird shit, requiring separate exotic weapon proficiency feats that normally require Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite and sometimes Monk levels.
Jupiterian Local
The patch is literally "add unarmed strike to monk's weapon proficiencies". That's all you need to do.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Any DM with common sense would probably give em that, unless the DM was excruciatingly pedantic.
Sharknado Warning
Your fist counts as two different weapons, a swiping fist, a simple weapon, and the striking fist, a martial weapon. Appropriate damage is assigned to them, with a swiping fist being as it is base and the striking fist does more damage. These both still count as unarmed strikes.
The striking fist has special rules. If you're not proficient in it, it incurs even greater penalties, like decreased to-hit and/or decrease AC during the Ao O if you miss, representing the squishy wizard overextending himself when he threw too much into that punch.
Improved Unarmed Strike has the added prerequisite of proficiency in the striking fist, which martial classes, of course, get automatically and monk get both of.
Their also exotic fist weapons that do all kinds of weird shit, requiring separate exotic weapon proficiency feats that normally require Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite and sometimes Monk levels.
...But what if my monk practices a martial art focused on kicks? :-P
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
Unarmed Strike isn't exclusively fists for anyone, well, bar some very specific exceptions, I'd think.
Also I just teased the Monk with his technical lack of proficiency.
I had to explain to the DM what proficiency in this case meant.
Sigh...
Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
Citizen
EDIT: Re-reading the rules to be clearer.
edited 26th Mar '15 8:13:24 PM by Lawyerdude
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
An excerpt from the rules for seeing distant lights, from Underdark.
We are definitely well within that.
edited 27th Mar '15 2:56:07 PM by Durazno
Lost in Space
The ironic thing there is that you might have to roll a Spot check to see the Sun on a bright day, since you aren't in "total darkness" when looking for it. Of course, that's because you're within the Sun's illumination radius, so to speak. Rules, man, how do they work?
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Untrustworthy
Spotting the moon might be harder, though. And I'm pretty sure there's no way you could see the stars.
"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
In all this talk of rules messing with the "reality" of the game, I'm surprised no one's mentioned 4e's classic square fireballs.
"We're home, Chewie."That's because in 4th edition, π = 4. Obviously.
edited 27th Mar '15 3:18:18 PM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Always 3:00am in the Filth
Everyone can automatically Spot the Sun. Once. Then you're blind and will never Spot again.
"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984
Sharknado Warning
But most peasants cannot reliably make a dc 20 spot checks, so for commoners, the sun and moon and stars are still impossible for them to see!
Says the half-orc, after a particularly botched roll.