CNN: Can the 14th amendment defend itself?

The page you requested is invalid I am afraid dude.

We could tell the international community something along the lines of "It's our border, fuck off".

So yeah, about those mines.

So continual resetting of mines is cheaper than changing governmental policy slightly?

And the international community can then politely tell you that your interests are no longer welcome in their country. Basically in some areas it is basically giving every America hating idiot who happens to run a country free reign to grap as many of your interests that are in his/her country. Because if you aren't going to abide by international practices (and are apparently too busy at home) what better and more popular way to make you look good than by grabbing the largesse of America's foreign invesements.

I can't believe we have multiple people here seriously discussing mining the border. Please tell me I'm in the Bizarro Universe, where blowing people up is good.

edited 16th Feb '11 2:47:20 PM by jewelleddragon

Nope, you're in the regular universe, where the solution to most problems seem to be "fuck you, I got mine".

Okay guys, quick thing here, you are not going to convince people that you are right by acting as if you possess an unnassailable position and that everything said against that is wrong.

Persuasion is far more vital in this sort of situation by responding to the needs and concerns of people involved and not just leaping for the high ground as fast as possible.

There comes a point where it's time to look after your own when looking after everybody else starts to cause problems.

I'm in favor of making legal immigration easier, both for work visas and for citizenship.

I am not in favor of doing something about the legal immigration problem, and then promptly ignoring the illegal immigration problem that is still present. If legal immigration were easier, the cartels and gangs still wouldn't use it. I'm looking at this on the Law Enforcement end of the spectrum for the most part, and the only thing that I'm focusing on is that one way or another, illegal crossings must stop, there isn't an alternative answer for me.

Stop making these citizens of another country take priority over what needs to be done- keeping violent criminals from the same country out, and thus keeping them from hurting our citizens.

Maybe it's hard for Stranger to understand that, since this isn't his country, but god damnit I care about this issue, I want those fucking cartels to keep out and stay out.

edited 16th Feb '11 2:59:08 PM by Barkey

So how would your solution work, the cartels are not going to run out of people to flood your country with and may perhaps use their influence to affect your own governmental organisations around the border. Either that or they simply have some of the refugees drive through the minefields before sending others behind them.

All you end up with is a whole lot of dead potential immigrants and a whole lot of immigrants who are never going to go near anyone in authority because (hey) even if the gangers made them walk the minefield they weren't the ones that put them there. You then create an even tighter ring of silence around the cartels, which isn't really helpful.

Doooooooooom fortresses. Land mines are cool, you know what's cooler? Tossing 250mm fragmentation shells at cars from your doom fortress. Or possibly lasers.

Cartels aren't the only people capable of going across border and influencing things.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:03:58 PM by Kino

If I had my way we'd just force the Mexican government to let us go in and smoke some major cartel hideouts, and then leave and observe the results. I want to cut this problem out from the heart, instead of just defending constantly.

Honestly, a really big military operation(but very small and surgical in scale) could be really effective with the way the Cartels are currently operating. We have pretty good intel of our own on them via the DEA and other agencies.

^

Then legalise some drugs, or try slowing trade to mexico unless something is done. Or maybe just try and let the immigrants across, find where they live and instead of deporting them offer them places to work in exchange for information to bring down the Cartels.

Your not really hurting the cartels all that much by trying to stop the immigrants, they will still get people through, perhaps you increase their profit margins by a fraction, but for what you are actually getting it just isn't cost effective. No matter how cheap the landmines are.

You do realise how that will look right? Oh sure its a good idea, but for the most part? It'll let China interfere in NK, tibet and anywhere else it fancies and you no longer have grounds to complain about it. Because guess what you are just as bad as them. Ignoring international law whilst talking about how immigrants are here illegally strikes me as hypocritical.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:07:40 PM by JosefBugman

Mines on the border? That sounds even stupider than the border fence.

We obviously need to resort to the time tested and proud American tradition of invading Mexico. Of course, this time we'd be in it to kill criminals, not military and civilians, and we would intend from the start on pulling out. But the troops would definitely be there illegally, because the Mexican government doesn't want U.S. help.

God. The problem we're talking about is people coming here without permission, and the best answer I got is to go back to their home and start killing criminals. Which wouldn't even solve the entire problem.

Like I said before though, I want a solution. For me, the crime factor is the problem I'm focusing on. Illegal Immigrants and criminals use the same vector to come here, and I want to find a way to either close said vector, or get them to stop using it altogether.

One of those two things needs to be done, and I don't really give a shit how humane or ethical we are in solving the problem, I just want results, because if you want to get technical, they are all criminals.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:07:59 PM by Barkey

Two Words: Help Mexico.

If Mexico can tackle the drug cartels on their own, and the US can reduce the culture of narcotics, then the issue will become less pressing. And by slackening immigration laws, the US can help isolate the real bastards from the ones who just haven't been given a chance. That is the road to victory. After that, its bandit mop-up.

However, as long as you have a drug culture in America, and the drugs aren't legalised, then you will always have to contend with the violence and exploitation that goes with it. You can only alleviate the symptoms by making legal immigration easier. And America, it seems, is too paralysed even to do that.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:08:12 PM by GameChainsaw

^We've been helping them for 20+ years now.

^^

To be honest, we get lots of intel reports at my base(for being so close to the border) about what's going on in regards to the drug war in Mexico, and they really do need help. When a cartel can use overt action and blockade a military base for over 48 hours, that's when you have a severe problem.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:11:25 PM by Barkey

America is generally paralyzed because we're polarized. We will spend forever fighting each other over issues that are either small or we don't fully understand. We only become a truly terrifying war machine when something manages to piss all of us off at once.

But I like the idea of covertly just giving Mexico the means to help itself. Too bad that'd cost far too much to put into practice, but if the problem actually got big enough we might.

Then America needs to either get an agreement to help train Mexican soldiers and equip them with both the equipment and the mindset necessary to tackle the cartels, or they need to get a limited military access agreement to go after the bastards... has that even been attempted, or has it just been discarded politically without even asking the Mexicans or seriously trying to hammer out an agreement?

I know the US and Mexico don't exactly have a love and kisses relationship with each other... understatement of the century anyone?

^On your last point, where there's the will of the single most powerful country on earth, there's a friggin' way.

edited 16th Feb '11 3:15:05 PM by GameChainsaw

Far too much? As opposed to putting down mines every half a month on the border?

^

How many mines do you expect people to step on every two weeks Josef?

Then America needs to either get an agreement to help train Mexican soldiers and equip them with both the equipment and the mindset

Thing is, we've been supplying them with finds and equipment for years now. It's like giving a drug addict the number for a support group and money for rehab; unless he decides he want's to get better you're just throwing your money at the wind.

@JB: There are mine that can stay active for a lot longer; look at Cambodia.

Then America needs to either get an agreement to help train Mexican soldiers and equip them with both the equipment and the mindset

You do realize that if I'm a Mexican soldier (or police officer), I'd make more money by letting the cartel know what I'm up to, than by doing my job. With the added bonus of not being dead the following morning.

No, the US won't be able to train Mexico to do anything about the cartels so long as the Mexicans aren't ok with dieing for the cause.