Rename: Xanatos Planned This Index

I'd like it to be renamed.

I think it helps further the misconception that a Xanatos Gambit can be any old Master Plan.

edited 17th Mar '11 1:51:47 PM by DrStarky

I like Xanatos in the title of Xanatos Gambit, if removing this one would make that one more clear, I'm all for it.

No to rename. Terrible idea to rename something that brings so many inbounds.

It's not like they are coming for the title. Xanatos Planned This Index isn't a popuar memetic title like Xanatos Gambit, here, it's the content that matters.

If it would be a redirect, the links would still work, and outside people would still get their list of planning tropes, but tropers would be less confused by what Xanatos' name is associated with.

Yeah, I don't think it would hurt the wiki much if we renamed it either.

Other than "whine whine whine I dont like it named that way" there's no reason to renaming one of the page that gets the most inbounds.

edited 17th Mar '11 5:35:43 PM by Ghilz

But it dose cause a problem. It makes pepole associate Xanatos's name with any kind of Master Plan instead of one's that are specifically Xanatos Gambits.

I don't think it's possible that an index can cause missuse, but it could be an indirect cause of missuse for another trope that has much less a chance of being changed.

edited 17th Mar '11 5:49:47 PM by DrStarky

Or, maybe it's because Xanatos Gambit has an over-the-top convoluted description that just fails at describing the trope in a way people can understand.

Look, it opens right up with "The heroes uncover a conspiracy being organized by the villain." I mean, come on, right?

And did you see this?

It seems quite obvious to me that the description of Xanatos Gambit is to blame for any misuse here.

edited 17th Mar '11 5:55:56 PM by troacctid

Agreed.

Continuity Snarl on trope pages. Uggh. Should we rewrite the whole thing?

Maybe, should make a separate topic for that.

I support a rename, for all of the previously cited reasons. Speaking from personal experience, I was confused by the abundant usage of the word Xanatos on this site when I first came here because I had never heard of Gargoyles or the name Xanatos. Because the word is used in different contexts of "evil plan" I, like many other people, began to associate the word "Xanatos" and the phrase "Xanatos Gambit" with just "evil plan" and not its specific definition. Even though I know the distinction now I still make this association sometimes. We need to restrict to use of the word Xanatos down to just Xanatos Gambit so the distinction is more clear. Plus renaming it would help the page be more accessible to people who have never heard of the show.

Also, I don't understand this whole idea of not renaming a page because it has good traffic. Why would the amount traffic change if the page was renamed? The old name would be a redirect so all links to it would go directly to the page. And making the name more accessible might increase the traffic. I don't think people go to pages specifically because of the names. For me it has been the opposite: I go looking for a trope but have trouble finding it because of an obscure name.

edited 17th Mar '11 7:21:12 PM by djbj

Traffic is a sign a lot of people know what a name is.

If we change the name of a high-traffic trope, all those pepole need to learn a new name.

Therefore, we must have a very good reason to rename it.

Somenames like Narm is an obsure refernce to a show and it's never going to be renamed because that name hasn't prevented it from being a natural part of the site's lexicon.

edited 17th Mar '11 7:50:35 PM by DrStarky

But as has been pointed out, the important part of the name is Planned This Index. "Xanatos" is just a cool sounding name - it has no relevance, but it also doesn't do anything to hurt the page. I had never heard of Xanatos before coming to TV Tropes, and as I don't read many examples from Western Animation I still barely know who he is, but I find this name quite clear - as opposed to Xanatos Gambit, which makes much less sense: "Gambit" isn't much of an apparent trope. It will never happen, of course, but if anything that's the page that needs renaming.

edited 18th Mar '11 12:22:35 AM by nrjxll

So, as before, let it be. It works, it makes sense, and it's a cool-sounding name.

Supporting to keep it as is. The same argument of "if it would be a redirect, the links would still work, and outside people would still get their list of planning tropes, but tropers would be less confused by what Xanatos' name is associated with." can be broken by two simple details: first, it makes no sense to rename something just so that the current name is a redirect, without further benefit (and in particular, "I don't like this name so I want it to be changed" does not fly as reason for renaming); second, that Xanatos planeed this index does not mean that all these tropes are his. That would be like saying that because you wrote a book about *cuisine*, all the *recipes* belong to you.

What I think has to be done is to merely make sure that Xanatos Gambit does not suggest that the other tropes are Xanatosed, simlarly, the other tropes have to be explicitly deXanatosized.

edited 18th Mar '11 8:49:40 AM by SilentReverence

Leave as is. As most everyone else said, it's the "Planned This Index" part that's important. It could be Fast Eddie Planned This Index and still work. Xanatos Planned This Index just happens to be the current name, a reference to one of our most popular trope names involving evil plans, and bringing in a metric crapton of inbounds. Ain't broke, don't fix.

Until I read this thread, I had no idea that Xanatos Gambit was a trope about anything else than 'incredibly complicated plan'. I now... Think it refers to a plan that is designed so that all possible outcomes are profitable for the planner. So, great confusion. I think that warrants change.

Yeah, the confusion for Xanatos Gambit was well before this index came along, so that should be fixed. I'll make the topic.

EDIT: Here.

edited 18th Mar '11 11:30:57 AM by DragonQuestZ

I think it should be left alone. The index isn't being misused.

It's not about the missuse of the page itself as much as it's a bad snowclone that reinforce the missuse of Xanatos Gambit.

In all fairness, the description of Xanatos Gambit needs a rewrite and was misued long before this index or stuff like Xanatos Roulette.

But names like those reflect the same missuse by associating "Xanatos" with "any master plan". Even if that description is rewrtten, those names will continue to be a problem by setting a bad example for tropers.

I beleive the It Ain't Broke philosphy is a valid guideline. But thinking only "This name is being used correctly, therefore the name causes no problems and never needs to be changed for any reason" is just fallacious.

edited 22nd Mar '11 2:10:32 PM by DrStarky

Completely untrue, IMO. All that it means is that someone mentioned the name in a popular blog, or it's convoluted enough to spark interest without necessarily knowing what the name means, or what it really is.

We should wait to see if we should rename this, because if Xanatos Gambit is reworked into a Super-Trope, there will be no need to rename it.

Still say no to a rename.

I'd be fine with it being renamed, since I had no idea who Xanatos was until recently. Other than an alternate spelling of Thanatos, Greek god of death, but that... didn't seem particularly relevant.

Also, traffic isn't necessarily an indication that the name is good, though there is probably a correlation. For several months I had absolutely no clue what people were talking about when Xanatos this or that or the other. Eventually I memorised what they meant by seeing other people use them and checking the trope page... though I was still under the impression that Xanatos Gambit was the same as Evil Plan, since that's how it's often used. Anyway, more to the point, once I worked it out I would link to Xanatos Whatever when appropriate even though the name was entirely meaningless to me. It could have been called Zarak Wolverine, or Asdfghjkl Bingo, or Sir Edward Fluffington The Third Is A Pretty Smart Guy, and I still would have linked them. In other words I used the trope in spite of the name, not because of it. Standard disclaimer about my experience not being representative of all humanity, o' course.

The main thing the Xanatos name has in its favour from my perspective is that it is essentially meaningless and therefore unlikely to be mistaken for something else... and of course it's somewhat ingrained in the wiki.