Christian tropers, join together!

I don't mind at all. Go ahead.

I honestly understand the temptation to superiority complex comments like that. After all, it was acceptable as short a time ago as the late 80s to associate gay people with pedophiles, assume a person was automatically good because they were Christian, and not offer mental help because "the lord will take care of it". Now it is less acceptable in daily life, (but not everywhere) but many Christians declare that those behaviors becoming less acceptable means they are persecuted and that is reflected politically. Look for instance at how many Christians support Mike Pence despite his attitude towards gay people being "Let's torture them to be straight, we should be funding that!" In discussions with some Christians, (not all) those points are still made so often we counter with insults instead of trying to examine why we believe the way we believe because we often feel defensive in our daily lives.

We don't want to treat people badly. Most of us don't find religious people to be subhuman. Some people who even say it might not believe it and are just trolling. A lot of us have no animosity towards religion but have no proof in which to believe. but there are some things we cannot reconcile with many of our, (we don't have a united system because there is no one atheist value judgement) moral values even if we did believe. God commands much of this and no amount of context will make it better. Like the story of Abraham, the slave commandments, (yes it was indentured servitude, no that doesn't make it completely free of awfulness), or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah, (Yes the government was awful and were most of the people. But an omnipotent God would be able to get the innocents out of there, reform the bad people, or something other than complete annihilation). We tend to wonder why the faith seems to give God license to do all this bad stuff and nobody of the faith seems to get upset with him if they believe all that happened.

We often feel the same way about all the similar faiths,but at least here in America some of them aren't made fun of as much as Christians. Because, they don't shove it down our throat as much. Not all Christians behave this way and many Christians opposed the religious right but they tend to not be as overt about it at least ones we see on the news. We would honestly rather be nice but when you spend so much of your life defending yourself and your friends from the majority in power, (who happen to share the faith of say this board) it can become easy to dismiss the people who belong to that majority as evil, like the people who say "even moderate Muslims will still punch you if you say something bad about their faith"

No, it isn't right. Most of us actually do want dialogue, but I can understand giving up and giving in to anger and I just hope I've given you some things to understand where the anger comes from.

@Shadsie: I hope you don't take it to much to heart. A lot of people are GIFT on the internet, lots of religious people do good things and even great things even if we feel they are misguided on their beliefs. You seem like a good person, don't let the worst get to you like I let Breitbart and some other conservative writers get to me.

TLDR: I understand anger, the majority can do pretty bad things to a minority and many innocent people share things like faith with awful people in power but it still isn't right, we don't believe in God but feel the Omniscient Morality License the faith tends to give him is creepy and context often does not help, we feel the same way about similar faiths but they don't target "the others" as much in countries where they are not the majority.

Honestly, I feel like that's begun to reverse these days, if it hasn't already.

edited 15th Feb '17 4:37:43 PM by PhysicalStamina

I think it depends on where you live and what denomination. A lot of people where I live don't trust born again Christians, Mormons or people who are non denominational, but are fine with Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherans, among others. Meanwhile I know people on the other end of the country who say the exact opposite.

Do you live in a city perhaps? I'm asking because I've lived mostly in the rural areas of America my life and have seen Church's on every corner. Also, it's really hard to get elected if you aren't some form of Christian and the "War on Christmas" which is all about how hearing happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas in some retail places and having to share government land=the worst thing ever!

I know many Christians think it's ridiculous, but so many people in so many areas of America think this is the biggest deal ever and force everyone to go along with it so if you are only exposed to them as annoying or oppressive you might see them as that.

Huh, I guess I can see that. America is a very divided nation, even among the same religion.

I'm talking in more of a broader scale. It seems to me that as far as an increasing number of people are concerned, being Christian basically means you're an honorary member of the GOP, which at this point is just a step down from the KKK.

If it helps, though, I'm from Washington, DC originally and currently live in Silver Spring, Maryland directly above it.

I was speaking broadly too.We have have very few Atheist representatives in government at all, and a national poll showed we are much less trusted in general than Christians.

Are you talking people online or people in real life? I've seen that attitude online, but I've never seen it outside there.

Mostly online. Still, though, people online exist in real life, too.

You still have more privileges than others.

It's hard to enjoy privilege when everybody hates you.

Man, is this what white people feel like when people talk about racism?

If more Christian denominations are supportive of social justice, then maybe things can change. As it is now, they are the majority of the forces against it.

edited 15th Feb '17 6:25:42 PM by RAlexa21th

Personally, this may sound strange, but I feel like (depending upon their policies, of course) I’d be more inclined to vote for an openly atheist politician just because I’d think “They’re honest and brave for that.” I think it takes a lot of character to come out as a minority in a system that expects certain kinds of lip-service, so it would make me inclined to think “If they are honest about that, they are likely to be more honest than most politicians about other things, too.”

My latest thoughts (about the Cracked article) was just kind of wondering if people are “not realizing how Nazi they are skirting sometimes” because NO ONE (in liberal and basic descent person circles) wants to bash Jews / Jewish belief, but I wonder if some people kind of do by accident when aiming at Christians. I don’t like to see innocents caught in the crossfire and I have a weird aggravation over people acting like some people don’t exist. (I get aggravated, for example, when snarkers say “Nobody worships Odin or Zeus anymore!” – because I wish they’d Google Neopaganism). I understand the bent and backlash toward Christians. We’re assholes. The worst of us are raging hypocrites, killers, thieves and oppressors “in the name of God” and dangerous theocrats (Mike Pence…ugh) - And the best of us? We try to be something we can never attain. We’re fools.

As far as my own depression goes, don’t concern yourself too much. If it isn’t this, it’s another thing because I just have a borked-up brain. I seem to go through periods of hating myself no matter what. Blame the bipolar disorder – a thing I definitely did NOT choose to have that I feel like an inferior subhuman for having ALL THE DAMN TIME. I’m probably not even actually as “religious” as I may come across in these discussions. I haven’t even been to church in over ten years… I am just fascinated by discussions of belief. (For the record, I actually read the Pagan coven here frequently, though I do not comment, because I don’t want to be a “turd in the punchbowl” even for innocent questions. I’ve read the Muslim Coven. I’ve occasionally read the Athiest/Antitheist Coven). I just comment here a lot because it “feels more home” for me and I’ve gotten used to the idea of (progressive) Christian communities being generally loving and understanding of a lot in terms of spiritual struggles.

That is not true. As imperfect as we are, we are gifted with the ability to constantly evolve. Even if we can't attain perfection (for the simple reason that it doesn't exist), the pursuit for it may make us better people.

edited 15th Feb '17 6:42:58 PM by RAlexa21th

Heh. Yeah, things are gonna change, all right. I'd bet you anything in 50-100 years, Christianity will be in the same boat Scientology is now. It's become clear to me that it simply has no place in modern American society. And as American society continues to progress - and it will continue to progress, no matter how loud Conservatives cry - Christianity will gradually decrease and decrease in relevance until the name Jesus Christ is synonymous with L. Ron Hubbard, and owning a Bible pretty much makes you a nutjob by default, and all people like me can do is hope we die before we get to that point.

So yeah, that's the "change" I see happening.

edited 15th Feb '17 6:43:49 PM by PhysicalStamina

If that is the case then maybe Christ and Maria can join the Avengers.

edited 15th Feb '17 6:47:52 PM by RAlexa21th

@Shadsie: I don't think you guys are fools honestly. Trying to obtain an ideal way of living is an admirable goal. Some people do it by trying to never hit anyone, some want to never drink their favorite drink or eat their favorite foods because it's bad for them. Even if you can't achieve it it is certainly admirable to try.

@Stamina: I don't think so. I think like every other already popular belief it will change with the times, or at least come up with new terms for itself. Maybe progressive Christianity will become the norm.

So I've only ever been to small churches, Anyone who has been to a mega church, is gossip a big deal there as well?

Edit: Added the @ symbol.

edited 15th Feb '17 6:59:14 PM by Wildcard

Well, as far as social justice goes... I'm a frequent reader / sometimes commentator on this community: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistchristians/

And if that's too spicy, I also love reading this guy: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/ - Clark might be an actual Christian, but much of his commenting community actually isn't. (The "Slacktivist Community" is made up of all kinds - and the guy has A LOT of atheist fans. They came for his takedown of an infamously horrible series of books and stayed for the social justice politics and general intelligence and eloquence).

Ninja'd.

I tend to think that religions, like all other social phenomena, change over time... I tend to be hopeful that "Jesus" won't be wiped out in the future, because I do think that some form of progressive Christianity will become the norm (for Christianity - I see greater American society as bending toward secularism / atheism as the greater social norm, like some of the European nations). In other words, I think we'll be seen as kooks, but not as bad as it is in some online circles now. I look at history and think "Back before the (American) Civil War days, Christianity -and really religious Christianity at that - was the default-norm and there were just about equal numbers arguing pro and against slavery. Both used the Bible. The abolishinists won out. It took a damn bloody war to do it, but it happened - and now it's pretty much the norm to say "Christians just don't support slavery." (And, yes, it is in the Bible, but it's not something that is supported by any church I know, regardless of it being a thing in the Bible).

I have seen a LOT in the ways of progressivist Christians claiming pro-slavery/anti-slavery divide as being historical mirror to LGBT rights and inclusion debates...

So, yeah... I see Fundamentalism and Conservativism dying, but not necessarily the faith in all forms. (And even if it does in greater society, I'm sure a few Jesus-nerds will be working in the shadows). I know for one thing that my brain isn't letting go of certain things... even if I sometimes think it may be an inferior brain for that.

Maybe people will be more casual about faith and hopefully don't view them as incompatible.

Yeah, and they'll be ostracized from society just like B.o.B. was when he decided to come out ad a flat-earther. That's not exactly comforting.

Modern day religious people tend to not have any special attachment to the flat earth theory. It's kind of like the evolution thing. Lots of people in those circles don't believe it but by demographic it is much less controversial than very right wing groups would like to believe it is.

Was he though? Saw much more "that theory is stupid" than "your stupid for believing in it".

edited 15th Feb '17 7:42:29 PM by Wildcard

Okay you've noticed a few pages back that I am not the most devout Christian, but even I don't think wallowing in defeat is the thing you should do. If you want to change people's perspective, do something.

edited 15th Feb '17 7:44:39 PM by RAlexa21th

Christianity isn't dying out any time soon. Diminishing isn't the same as vanishing. I'm sure we'll get more atheists in the future, more buddhists, muslims, jews, and others, but we'll still be here too. The idea that it's vanishing is frankly ridiculous.

What can I do? Outside of this thread I already barely bring up my Christianity at all.

I wouldn't call 100 years or even 50 "soon".

edited 15th Feb '17 8:03:04 PM by PhysicalStamina

Reach out people of different faith, support good causes. Tell your people to Stop Being Stereotypical.