Scientists Convert Skin Cells to Beating Heart Cells

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-scientists-skin-cells-heart.html

So far, this is limited to conversion from skin to heart cells, but if methods are found to efficiently convert to and from other kinds of cells... total negation of difficult ethical questions, here we come!

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Now all science has to do is convert bone marrow into brain cells and then we'll no longer need our primary brains! Of course, when our primary brain ceases functioning things could get complicated.

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Anyway, yes. This is the first step to immortality. I approve.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

This is a mixed blessing...

We used something like skin cells, something originally thought to be incapable of becoming something like this, and succeeded in making it into a breathing heart cell. This may become what embyonic stem cell is theorized to be capable of doing from the start.

But on the other hand...it might be used by fundies to combat the use of embryonic stem cells. Their logic is going to be something along the lines of..."If we could do all this with just a skin cell, why should we bother experimenting potentials of embryonic stem cells then?"...and I'm afraid people really will abandon embryonic stem cell research just because of this.

Even if this succeeds, I hope many people still try to experiment with embryonic stem cells to see what potentials they may have that other types don't...if a mere skin cell can achieve this, what can an actual fresh stem cell from an embryo give us?

---

I guess the news is slightly more good than bad...but I dread the fact that some people will think that this will render embryonic stem cells pointless.

edited 3rd Feb '11 4:26:58 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Hey, you know what I'd like to see?

Convert stomach cells into brain cells instead. That way when someone says "I just know it, in my gut!" they'll actually be right.

In all seriousness, though, it is amazing that they can convert skin cells into heart cells. That could conceivably solve a lot of major medical issues someday. Not sure where ethical dilemmas or zombies come in.

EDIT: Also, haven't we pretty much moved past embryonic stem cells already? Not only are adult stem cells much more efficient but you can actually harvest them without having to kill the donor, meaning you can get a much larger supply. (And yes, the only real argument in terms of donor death is supply. Let's be real, they only use babies that were already going to be aborted anyway, so moral issues of life and death don't enter the equation.)

edited 3rd Feb '11 4:44:28 PM by Knight9910

They don't use babies at all. Embryonic Stem Cells come from embryos.

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:54:25 PM by storyyeller

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I'm sure you know by now...certain people can not tell the difference.

Adult stem cells are more limited in terms of ability compared to embryonic ones.

edited 3rd Feb '11 5:59:53 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I see this as a huge step forward. Imagine if you could get a heart transplant with an artificial heart grown from your own cells? Or replace a wounded soldier's foot with a new one? This has been a dream of surgeons for years.

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^^ Read my explanation. I did say it'll probably be a bit more good than bad...but let's hope no idiot tries to use this as an excuse to stop researching...

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

If we discover that we can do the exact same things with adult stem cells or somatic cells as we can with embryonic stem cells.... why in the world is stopping ESC research a bad thing? There wouldn't be any loss, and we would save a huge amount of argument.

Be not afraid...

You didn't read my entire post...

Until we know for certain, embryonic stem cells can either do just as much at worse, or more at best.

It took us this bloody long just to achieve what we probably could have done years ago with embryonic stem cells.

If we could research and develop our knowledge regarding ESC's as long as we have with all these roundabout methods, it's not 100% certain, but it's not hard to imagine we would have come up with so much more if we had put the same effort in embryonic stem cells.

I don't know why we have restrictions on ESC's to begin with. What happened to separation of church and state?

---

For an analogy...

Imagine Embryonic Stem Cells is a elite prestige class. And all the other stem cells and methods are just weak novice class. At level 1, ESC is even stronger than the other guys when they're level 10.

Now we grinded Other up to level 50 while a bunch the busy bodies wouldn't let us touch ESC. As a result, the level 50 Other is almost as good as ESC as it was in level 1...

Imagine what could be achieved if we had grinded the elite prestige class to level 50 instead.

edited 3rd Feb '11 6:54:15 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

^No, I understand. Mixed means good with bad. While I agree with Loni Jay, this may mean we don't need ESC's but I also agree with you that we don't know that yet.

edited 3rd Feb '11 6:54:18 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

I have nothing against Loni Jay, but it is his kind of thinking that scares me and is the reason for this being a mixxed blessing(nothing wrong with you, we all have our opinions).

People WILL use this development as an excuse to abandon further research.

No offence.

edited 3rd Feb '11 7:00:31 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

What's wrong with exploring the possibilities of the NON-controversial thing first? It makes sense to me. You have two methods, both of which have unknown potential. One causes massive ethical debates, the other does not. Why would you immediately want to research the controversial one, when in terms of potential they are equal?

Oh and there are already examples of people using adult stem cells in therapy, to repair tendons.

edited 3rd Feb '11 8:35:27 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

Why not explore both approaches simultaneously? It's not like they're mutually exclusive.

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^^ Because embryonic stem cells showed more potential at the start...

We can do quite a bit with these other methods now. But try to imagine putting the same amount of effort into the theoretically superior one...how much further could we have gone if it wasn't for a few religious busy bodies...

Why limit ourselves just because of a religion that not everybody believes in?

Also, embryonic stem cell research, unlike abortion, is only controversial to a specific religion. Restrictions were only put into that research so politicians would get gravy points with the fundamentalists. You don't see any problems with the fact that this is even controversial to begin with? And don't forget, those aborted medical wastes? they're going to be thrown out anyways if they aren't used)

edited 3rd Feb '11 8:56:36 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

True. But given that I, and many many other people, have ethical issues with it, doesn't it seem kind of inflammatory to insist on continuing with it, even after you're given a viable alternative?

Be not afraid...

We don't yet have a viable alternative. This is promising, but we don't yet know what limitations it will have.

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I resent being called a religous busybody. Prolife people oppose ESC research not because they enjoy poking into other people's lives, but because they genuinely view it as morally equivalent to murder.

Let's not turn this into another abortion thread though.

I was actually talking about adult stem cells, as well as the somatic skin cells in this article.

edited for silly mistake

edited 3rd Feb '11 9:25:00 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

...question, are you faith that condemns stem cell research? We can SHOULD NOT base our laws on a few religious types. Many countries have people who are atheist, and other faiths that are not bothered by scientific progress. Is it fair to them that we can not advance our knowledge just because a few have issues with it?

How come we don't punish people for drinking excessively? How come we don't punish people for looking at pornography or having safe sex? We shouldn't base our laws on religion.

---

PS- do you know why we have such deep understanding of human anatomy today? Or how all those anatomically correct artworks suddenly started to pop-up left and right long ago?

The idea of dissecting and experimenting with human corpses was a taboo as well. And mostly a religious one (something to do with human bodies being temples or something).

If anatomists hadn't defied the law and dug up bodies to research, many historic paintings would never have existed. Many important findings about human anatomy would never have come about until many many years later.

Also, if that law had still existed, we wouldn't have Body World today.

^ You mean pro-life?

edited 3rd Feb '11 9:16:08 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

^^ So there are people who think that abortion is murder but are still in favor of it? That's an odd viewpoint.

edited 3rd Feb '11 9:08:56 PM by storyyeller

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Ah. I do indeed. Thank you.

The trouble is that people view abortion as infanticide. You can't expect people to sit idly by and accept other people doing that. You might disagree with whether it is murder, but seeing as people believe that it is, you can't ask them to not complain about it.

Pornography, drunkenness and the like is different because you're not affecting any other people.

edited 3rd Feb '11 9:29:45 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

But heres the thing...

• Not everyone views it as infanticide. It's pretty much 50/50 deviating a bit depending on location. (theres 2 other abortion threads btw)

• Aborted embryos are medical wastes. We're only going to throw them out anyways.

• people considered dissecting human corpses as a grave sin back then as well...in fact, even today some are still uncomfortable with it, but tolerate it since everyone's doing it now anyways.

...and neither is embryonic stem cell research. Okay, yes you are affecting some other people, but in a positive way. People like having their illnesses treated.

edited 3rd Feb '11 9:38:20 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Why do people never listen to what I say on this topic. Get this into your head: prolife people view a fetus as a person. Now, we can argue to hell and back about whether it is or not, but you will not change the fact that that is our basis for argument.

Be not afraid...