Er, while I'm probably not qualified to give an explanation, I believe the idea is that the asexual person is doing a service to make their partner happy.
Alternatively, the asexual person sprouts a clone.
Ahr river
Naturally, but the main point (I do not believe this, I am arguing for said friend so I may convince him later), is that they get nothing out of it, and it might be no different than being manipulated into doing something.
Or, alternatively, a form of toleration that might end up killing the enjoyment for the other partner. For example, one might hate football, but one might have a partner that enjoys it, and so they would tolerate their partner watching it, but unlike sex, said person can get up, walk away, and do other things, in order to not let their lack of enjoyance ruin the situation.
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The Mod with the Migraine
An explanation I heard from another friend of mine was thus:
The partner who doesn't desire sex can still desire to make their partner happy, and can acquise/participate to the best of their ability to make said partner happy. Just because they're not as into the moment, does not mean that they aren't getting satisfaction from it.
However, I should also point out that she later divorced her husband, in part because he wasn't trying as often as she wanted (or at all, eventually).
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Ahr river
Yeah, it's that last sentence that bothers him. The "Oh, you want to have sex now? —sigh— Fine. Lets get this over with."
I suppose it would be wise for an asexual person to not get into a relationship with a large libido, which might make sense not only for the lack of hormones, but also due to the fact it might cause a certain lack of ability to enjoy fetishes or sexual things together (the same way someone who likes comics might want to marry someone who can enjoy comics with them).
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As been said above, it is more than possible to derive happiness from making another happy, and there is nothing insincere or manipulative about it.
Besides, even if asexuals do not enjoy sex it does not mean that it is necessary unpleasant for them. I mean, ummm, I've read that not every sexual act necessary ends in orgasm, but it still can be quite pleasant.
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Ahr river
@Beholderess: Yes, but what about the person who is not asexual? They have no way of making said person happy, not in the same way, anyway.
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Speaking from experience, I've been the asexual in a couple of relationships, and I can tell you outright that it's not true that the partner can't keep the asexual happy. For one, I enjoyed the company of my girlfriends—I pretty much choose women whom I like on a personal level, rather than an attraction level. I've been with about every race and every body type—some I dug, some I did not, but the woman I was most happiest with did little for me sexually.
They can compensate it some other way. After all, people in relationships are doing something they do not particularly like doing because it pleases the other party quite often. Not many people get exceptional fun and pleasure out of process of cooking, for example, yet there is nothing strange in preparing a meal for one's partner. So I'd say that all that is required of not asexual partner in order to be fair is being willing to go out of their way to please their partner in some other area and let them know that their efforts are acknowledged and appreciated.
edited 31st Jan '11 8:23:40 AM by Beholderess
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The Mod with the Migraine
They have no way of making said person happy, not in the same way, anyway.
Ahr river
I have zero experience of sex or romance, but surely sex isn't supposed to be only about physical pleasure? Don't people do it for the happiness of seeing their partner happy? Even sexual people must do that.
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Asexual ≠ incapable of experiencing physical pleasure, btw.
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Unless the asexual half is a total asshole, it's not "Ugh, ok, let's get this over with," but "I will gladly do this for you if it makes you happy, because I care about you and enjoy seeing you be happy." Surely your friend would do things for his SO just to make them happy, so why should sex be any different?
And if he still has a problem, then that just smacks of outright selfishness to me, i.e. he's just pissed his girlfriend won't reaffirm how totally awesome he is in bed. Seeing your parter happy should be a reward in itself, and if you're pissed that your partner isn't having the "proper" reaction to sex, that's not concern, that's just being a douche.
Street Writing Man
@AHR: try explaining to your friend like this; he/she gets no physical pleasure from providing a partner oral sex, right? but likely he/she does it anyway, because A: likes being good at stuff and B: likes seeing their partner get all hot and bothered by it.
Same with an asexual, I suppose; since they have no desire of their own, sex is just like any other relationship skill (cooking, cleaning, bill paying, date etiquette etc.). It's something to be good at so the other person gets what they need.
Your friend's going to have to make a mental adjustment, but couch your explanation in those terms...likely the asexual partner enjoys being good at sex, so they can watch their partner have so much fun.
Odd fact; I knew a girl who was all but asexual, and she had sex all the time...she claimed her lack of desire made her a better lay, because she could ignore her own pleasure and focus on really knocking her partner's socks off. For her, sex was art, and any pleasure she got was written on her partner's face.
edited 31st Jan '11 7:21:44 PM by drunkscriblerian
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This is exactly right. Also correct is the person who said that asexuality =/= unable to feel sexual pleasure.
I was largely indifferent to sex with my girlfriend, but it made her happy. She had a few things she could do to please me, though it sometimes didn't even work.
-Sex provides for excellent cardio workout.
-There are many ways to gratify someone during sex without direct physical stimulation. I know someone who gets zero fulfillment out of the physical act of sex, for example, but still gets an endorphin high from playing the dom role in BDSM.
-Sex can involve chocolate — which my past lovers some people claim to be better than sex anyway.
I guess what I'm trying to say is simply this: sex is potentially far more than simple bump and grind, and there are many opportunities to make it a valuable experience for both/all parties involved.
edited 31st Jan '11 11:15:15 PM by UnabashedFornicator
Another thing about sex is it's still a way to bond with someone. They might not really care for the actual sex part, but being close to the person you love isn't exactly something one complains about.
And love isn't about immediate, mutual exchange of pleasure. We sometimes do things for those we love that we don't enjoy, because we love them. Immediate gratification isn't always the goal of any one action.
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Ask him if he's ever watched a chick flick he couldn't stand with his girl.
Zzzzzzzzzz
More to the point, ask him if he's ever done something for his girlfriend just to see her smile. Or just to make her laugh.
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And there you go, doing that thing you do. /love
Ahr river
@Drunk: Well, common courtesy dictates one would reciprocate, and I think that he also receives sexual enjoyment from giving sexual enjoyment, so that might be the problem.
@Madru: Will do, there are definitely enough responses here for me to test this thread out on him.
edited 1st Feb '11 3:20:37 AM by MrAHR
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I could imagine enjoying cuddling up to someone I love, despite the fact that, as an asexual person, I'd have no interest in sexual activities. Given that I'm a survivor of sexual abuse, I doubt I'd be happy in a sexual relationship, but if I felt indifference towards sex rather than terror of it, then I could easily imagine enjoying the physical closeness.
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Hey, um, I'll come out at this point and say that AHR is indeed referring to me. I'll clarify my point though:
I'm confused about what asexuality IS then. Because in this thread, you just said that asexuality ≠ the ability to feel pleasure during sex, and asexuality ≠ not desiring to have sex with your partner. So if you're getting physical pleasure from it, and you desire to have sex with your partner, what part of that is asexuality? I'm not denying or rejecting the idea of it- I'm genuinely confused.
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It's the lack of a sex drive. You know how, when you see someone you find attractive doing something you find attractive, you get aroused? Asexuals don't experience that.
To put it another way, a heterosexual individual can still enjoy homosexual sex (that is, the orgam and all), but they won't be aroused by the idea, nor will they be attracted to their sexual partner. Asexuals may be able to enjoy sex (some, like myself, aren't able to), but they aren't aroused by the idea of having it, nor are they sexually attracted to anybody (though they can still feel romantic affection).
edited 1st Feb '11 9:27:59 AM by Miijhal
I have always had an easy time understanding how one of an asexual orientation could have a healthy romantic relationship, as well as a normal sex life, if the partner so desired it.
Unfortunately, I have a bad time EXPLAINING this to a good friend of mine, who is very open minded, but has personal values that place a huge emphasis on being able to make someone happy and having them make him happy in return. Due to this, in his mind, having an asexual partner and engaging in a sexual act with them would just make him feel guilty, and sees it as a selfish act (for the one who is not asexual).
I was wondering if anyone could possibly explain it better? Obviously since that's a pretty specific request, feel free to just discuss the dynamics in general.
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