WHARRGARBL
Depends on what exactly you mean by "fat acceptance." I think everyone agrees that by no means should overweight people be ridiculed for their size, but at the same time, they shouldn't be encouraged to stay the way they are. After all, being overweight is a health problem, and people should be encouraged to overcome it, not "embrace the way they are." To use a somewhat strained analogy, you obviously wouldn't ridicule people for having cancer, but at the same time you wouldn't encourage them to live with it and accept it when there's treatment available.
Only One Avatar
What about bodily autonomy? Some people are fully aware of the health costs of being overweight, and happily accept them. Some people think that being fat is attractive. If they can fully accept the fat identity, why can't other people accept their choice and drop the dieting agenda?
edited 30th Jan '11 9:56:18 PM by Grain
Anime geemu wo shinasai!
A couple of things...
Firstly, fat is not automatically unhealthy. I'm fat and suffer no health problems. Some of the things that can lead to fatness, such as poor diet and lack of exercise, can also lead to poor health, but there are many other things that can potentially lead to fatness, such as having fat relatives. The point is, you can by no means discern someone's state of health just by slapping them and seeing if they jiggle.
Secondly, even if there were a perfect correlation between fat and health problems...so what? Lots of things that people do are less than ideal for their health, but the only ones that draw outright scorn are being fat and smoking (and smokers sometimes get a pass). Why single it out?
Thirdly, the point of fat acceptance is not that fat people should necessarily "embrace" the way they are, but that they should be able to like themselves regardless of their size and shape. They may yet quest to lose weight, but their self-esteem should not hinge on their success in doing so. Unfortunately, our society has this idea that fat people ought to be consumed with self-loathing until they manage to drop the weight. They should not enjoy their food, their clothes, their sex lives, or their social activities. It's all very counter-productive considering that people tend not to take care of those whom they dislike.
edited 30th Jan '11 10:04:17 PM by Karalora
The inherent problem is that this entire debate is dependent upon what people accept as being "desirable" and "undesirable". The overweight and obese have every right to not be persecuted or rejected for their appearance as much as other people have the right to find them repulsive or unappealing. You can't say "society should accept me" without also saying, "but if it doesn't, that's my own burden to bear and no one else's".
edited 30th Jan '11 10:01:38 PM by KingZeal
Healthcare issues? Although I suppose if you are opposed to being overweight for that reason, then you should probably be against smoking and drinking as well.
@ Post 28: I don't mean to sound like an apologist or anything, but being/looking overweight is healthy/normal for people of certain body types. I don't think anyone's said that obesity is healthy, but a few pounds above average isn't necessarily unhealthy.
Mate Griffon To Mare
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It really depends on how fat. It's possible to have a genetic predisposition towards being heavy-set, but if someone is morbidly obese, it's improbable that that's due to genetic factors alone.
It's being singled out because it is so common.
edited 30th Jan '11 10:03:23 PM by LeighSabio
"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.
Part of the problem with this issue is that people keep conflating the slightly overweight, the moderately fat, and the morbidly obese. (I'm in the middle category.)
Mate Griffon To Mare
Agreed. And further complicating the issue is the fact that someone can weigh more than someone else, but still be healthier than them.
Always Right
For me, morbidly obese is sitting on more than one seat on the bus/train/plane, or atleast obese enough to get into the people next to them's personal space.
edited 30th Jan '11 10:14:09 PM by Signed
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
Unfortunately, our society has this idea that fat people ought to be consumed with self-loathing until they manage to drop the weight. They should not enjoy their food, their clothes, their sex lives, or their social activities.Yeeeah. I'm one of those unfortunate few that have gained weight on every diet I've tried. I've had so many doctors try to cut so many things out of my diet, that if I listened to all of them I'd be trying to survive on water, celery, and vitamin pills. 
That doesn't mean much when the seats could just be unrealistically thin.
Street Writing Man
Partially true.
Will back this up.
And you do realize that it's not exactly my fault they cram passengers in like sardines, right? You can always buy first class seats if you're that bothered by it.
edited 30th Jan '11 10:32:31 PM by DrunkGirlfriend
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Always Right
Theres no such thing as first class seats in trains and busses...
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
What is your opinion on the fat acceptance movement? would you ridicule a person without knowing their full story?Is it acceptable to call someone a Muslim bitch?
Then you can learn to deal with it. I'm not any more comfortable being crammed next to someone and having their bony elbow in my side.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Always Right
In that case it's much better that the obese guy stands. When someone is large enough to take up multiple seats is sitting, no one bothers to sit next to him. But when there is only one spot left with people sitting around nearby, that person will always sit and even knock people over trying to squish into the seat.
In this case it's not fair to the people sit in the normal amount of seat to give way to those who sit in more than one seats.
edited 30th Jan '11 10:38:12 PM by Signed
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
Street Writing Man
@Signed: Again, I agree with you. Again, careful with the wording.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Always Right
...you have a less offensive word for obese?
"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
Except, if you're thinner, you have less weight to bear upon standing. You also take up less room in the aisle.
Is inadequate seating on buses/trains the basis for Signed's fat unacceptance? This is kinda surreal.
But when there is only one spot left with people sitting around nearby, that person will always sit and even knock people over trying to squish into the seat.
In this case it's not fair to the people sit in the normal amount of seat to give way to those who sit in more than one seats.
Uhhh, what? If given a choice between sitting next to someone and standing, I'll stand. Even if I've been on my feet all day at work. Then people bitch at me for taking up the aisle. My mere existence outside of my house is obviously an inconvenience to everyone, right?
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
I'm on the fence about the whole fat acceptance thing. Usually, extremes of weight, whether obese or anorexic, are signs of being unhealthy, and is within the individual's control, ant they are symptomatic of societal problems. In the case of overweight people, these problems include restaurants not being transparent about when they're feeding us good/bad nutrition, or families preferring to feed their kids what's cheapest/quickest, rather than what's best for their health.
That said, I think there is a double standard about fat. We're quicker to recognize an overly fat person as unhealthy than we are an overly skinny person. And whereas a too-skinny person is usually met with sympathy, an overly fat person is too often met with scorn, derision, and discrimination in areas where their weight doesn't matter.
I'm in favor of ending wage discrimination based on weight, but not for pretending that being obese is healthy.
"All pain is a punishment, and every punishment is inflicted for love as much as for justice." — Joseph De Maistre.