Gay rights activist murdered in Uganda, U.S. Evangelical response

David Kato killed.

More details.

Rick Warren and Jeff Sharlet's responses.

I curse my bipedal anatomy and how it gives me only two middle fingers to raise at hateful fundies. But props to Warren Throckmorton for being a voice against this BS from within the evangelical community.

On a related note: UK may deport prominent lesbian and activist Brenda Namigadde back to Uganda.

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Rick Warren: "Globally last yr 146,000 Christians were put to death because of their faith. No one, except Christians, said anything."

Translation: The cross we carry is bigger than yours.

edited 27th Jan '11 11:55:51 AM by UnabashedFornicator

Because of course the death of one of our innocent people justifies our condoning the killing of one of your innocent people. Seems logical to me. I wonder how accurate his figures are anyway.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

And people care what Rick Warren says because...?

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

What an asshole. Self-righteous pricks like him piss me off.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

Why shouldn't they?

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

@Beholderess His beliefs have long been thought to be theologically unsound.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Rick Warren, as quoted by the article: "However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations."

"As a pastor, my job is to encourage, to support. I never take sides."

Yes, how dare that evil, evil man even consider letting a sovereign nation make its own laws. And the gall to say that it's not his place to judge their decisions. As we well know, it would be a far better world if American clergymen were simply put in direct control of those barbaric Africans.

I mean, the very thought of respecting another nation's democracy... Horrendous! [/sarcasm]

edited 27th Jan '11 2:58:33 PM by Wanderhome

"Globally last yr 146, 000 Christians were put to death because of their faith. No one, except Christians, said anything."

edited 27th Jan '11 3:29:04 PM by americanbadass

[[User Banned]]_ My Pm box ix still open though, I think?

Wow. That was rude. Thumped.

Edit: Barkey, that statement comes across as very offensive and antagonistic, let's keep it civil here.

And hundreds of thousands of Muslims, lots of Hindus, a nontrivial number of Jews, and probably a smattering of atheists. People get killed for their religious beliefs, sexual preference, race, gender, ethnicity, social status, what have you, on a constant basis in those parts of the world that are not quite as nice as the ones most of us live in.

The point is valid that making a big deal over any particular death is potentially hypocritical in light of the enormous quantity of hate-motivated killings around the world on a yearly basis. On the other hand, it's also mean-spirited to claim one should not make a big deal of any particular death on the justification that others also happened. One hate motivated death is too many, ever and always.

edited 27th Jan '11 4:59:04 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

@Radical Taoist: The article you linked on Warren is from 2009.

That said, saying that there were more Christian deaths than LGBT deaths when (some) Christians are preparing to purge gays and lesbians in Uganda is seriously, seriously wrong. Rick Warren is scum.

Okay, seriously what's up with all the "Rick Warren is EBIL!" stuff? According to that article, he once interacted with a radical Ugandan preacher, then stopped associating with the man after the whole "law to kill gays" thing came up.

So, what? Are you all saying that if you associate with someone who later says nasty things, that makes you an absolute evil bastard?

^ Um, for not being against a very bad law?

He is against it. He considers other issues to be more important, and doesn't tear his shirt off and scream with rage every time it's brought up, though, which is apparently enough to make him a monster in the eyes of some.

It's horrible that the loss of 146, 000 lives is being used for nothing more than a tactless throw-away line.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Your sarcasm misses the point that Warren is being a total fucking hypocrite over this. He's supported anti-gay pastor Martin Ssempa, who has pushed for homosexuality to be punishable by death and moved to sabotage an anti-AIDS campaign in Uganda by burning condoms. Ssemba has been a member of Warren's congregation; they've distanced themselves from him but not condemned his actions.

From a man who pushed like hell to beat Prop 8 and put considerable backing behind the crew that are doing this to Uganda, Warren has done too much indirectly to start spouting any BS about how important it is not to meddle in the affairs of foreign countries. He could have adopted that view that before supporting a homophobic murderer like Ssempa.

EDIT: Ninja'd. But seriously, Warren's "love the sinner hate the sin" not-pologies are typical of the response we can expect of evangelical leaders on the murder of homosexuals. Silence is not condemnation, it is complicity. I linked in the OP an example of an evangelical Christian doing the right thing regarding this situation, best case scenario is that Warren doesn't have the balls to take that stand because his congregation will shrink when he suggests we shouldn't hate teh gayz.

[Citation Needed] So, the Christians executed were twice as many Christians being executed than died in all the wars in the world that year? Possibly more than the Christian population in the countries that execute Christians for their faith? - Amnesty International

edited 27th Jan '11 5:57:31 PM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

"Your sarcasm misses the point that Warren is being a total fucking hypocrite over this. He's supported anti-gay pastor Martin Ssempa, who has pushed for homosexuality to be punishable by death and moved to sabotage an anti-AIDS campaign in Uganda by burning condoms. Ssemba has been a member of Warren's congregation; they've distanced themselves from him but not condemned his actions."

Yes, he supported and worked with Ssempa, before Ssempa began pushing for the execution of gays. And no, I guess he never did publicly condemn it, but I've never taken the time to publicly condemn the Rape of Nanking, myself. That doesn't mean that I wholeheartedly support Japanese war criminals Or does it by your standards?

edited 27th Jan '11 6:00:36 PM by Wanderhome

Depends, were you teaching the Imperial Japanese Army how useless those Chinese are? And if asked directly would you state the Rape of Nanking is a bad thing?

Warren's response has been subtle. Warren's response has been soft-handed. What Warren's response has not been is appropriate.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

You've never been given a clear opportunity to publicly condemn the Rape of Nanking, though.

edited 27th Jan '11 6:06:44 PM by silver2195

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Yeah, but it's self-evidently a bad thing. No one with an ounce of common sense would wait for a condemnation to assume I found it to be so.

I used the Rape of Nanking as an example of an obviously bad thing, not a direct parallel to the dynamic between Warren and Ssemba. Racism =/= considering certain lifestyle choices immoral.

Warren's response to the Ugandan law: "The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations."

He explicitly said that the Ugandan law was violating the God-given rights of its people.

That is not subtle. That is not soft-handed. I'd say it's entirely appropriate.

But, no, apparently if he says that the politics of a foreign nation aren't his business, then he must be supporting the law, according to you.

I will leave it to the readers to decide whether or not I'm holding Warren to an unfair standard. But I'll ask this: do you feel that sentence, the one in bold, would be an appropriate response to:

• The murder and oppression of political dissidents in Burma/Myanmar?
• The murder and oppression of religious minorities and political dissidents in Saudi Arabia or Iran?
• The murder and harvesting of albinos and accused "witches" throughout Africa for superstitious reasons?
• The Chinese treatment of the Tibetans or the Uyghurs(sp)?
• The regular oppression of the populace in North Korea?

If so, to which of the above cases would that sentence be appropriate? And if not, why not, and why is it an appropriate response in this case?

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I suppose all of them, but I can't put arguments in Warren's mouth, nor can I honestly say that my own valuations of such things are analogous to Warrens.

All I can say about those hatemongering Christian evangelical loons (the ones who bash gays and are totally hateful,not regular christians) who flagrantly ignore Jesus' message, is they are gonna be in for a hell of a wake up call at the Pearly Gates.

edited 27th Jan '11 6:35:25 PM by MarkVonLewis

So, basically, if the people that you disagree with say that the people they disagree with are going to Hell, then the ones you disagree with are going to Hell? Hm.