The Arab Spring

Late breaking news on Syria: "Britain and America were on Thursday reported to be working on a plan to offer clemency to the beleaguered Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, as part of a U.N.-sponsored diplomatic initiative to facilitate political transition in Syria."

I hope it works out...

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Me too. Much as Assad deserves justice, I'm cool with him not getting it if it means his departure from office and the rebuilding of Syria.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

The Syrian Olympic chief will be banned from attending the 2012 games. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18550862

Protests in Egypt are gaining steam again. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18547371 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/22/us-egypt-election-idUSBRE85G01U20120622 http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/20126224915845417.html

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

The army was betting on the Egyptian people being tired. What if they lose that bet?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Things get ugly, fast.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

They don't have to put up with that. Cut off their heads. Seriously. <_<

I vowed, and so did you: Beyond this wall- we would make it through.

BBC is reporting that a Turkish fighter was shot down over Syria.

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...

"!!!"

...That was incredibly stupid.

Proud member of the IAA What's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?

Link to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18554246

The pilots may have been recovered, the cause of the crash isn't yet confirmed, but Syria "regrets" it, not that that means anything.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Well it's stupid but I don't think Turkey/Syria were good friends in the first place. And since Turkey is busy with another string of PKK attacks against them, it's probably unlikely for Turkey to do too much. Probably cold shoulder and politically backing tough measures against Syria.

What the hell were the Turks doing flying warplanes that close to the Syrian border? I'm reading no conformation about the fate of the crew for the two planes so this is hardly over. If this results in casualties than Turkey is gona go ape shit. From what I can remember the Turkish military have been held back from doing anything by the government (due to government fears of the military becoming to popular). The Turkish military might well play this as a way to get a hell of a lot more involved in Syria. What I still want to know is what those planes were doing anywhere near the border in the first place. The conspiracy theorist part of me wonders if someone put them there on purpose knowing that the Syrian regime might shoot at them and thus give the military an excuse to get involved. Now I think this is highly unlikely but I felt it should be put out there.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

Turkey shares a border with Syria. I'm sure they patrol it all the time...

However, this: "...Reports say the plane incident has triggered an emergency summit of Turkish military, intelligence and government officials."

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Double post, ignore

edited 22nd Jun '12 12:01:32 PM by DeMarquis

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

@breadloaf - The military in Turkey is large enough to do both, if necessary. They're considered the sleeping giant of the region.

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...

I'm not doubting their ability, just the politics. The government would want to look tough on Syria but to actually do something would be problematic for them.

Yeah, Turkey are really caught right now. Geographically and politically, they're stuck completely inbetween the two sides, and their best attempts to remain non-committal and neutral for as long as possible aren't going to work forever. Sooner or later, they will need to join the EU majority view, but they're extremely vulnerable to attack if they do so - even if it would be Pyrrhic Villainy on the part of any attacker.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Whaaaat?! Okay, if it turns out that Syrian AA was what shot down that fighter, then there's zero doubt that Assad has just crossed a new line in the suicidal desperation department.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I seriously doubt Assad would personally have ordered such a thing, or even that it was something desired by the Syrian armed forces. To me, this looks like a bumbling mistake by somebody low on the Syrian food chain that is going to blow up in the faces of their whole military chain of command.

"Can ye fathom the ocean, dark and deep, where the mighty waves and the grandeur sweep?"

Man, lots of news lately.

It seems Khartoum has joined the Arab Spring.

http://www.voanews.com/content/students-in-sudan-lead-protests-across-khartoum/1246033.html

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...

Syria has confirmed that it shot down the Turkish plane.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/20126221721460173.html

BBC link to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219

The pilots are still missing, Turkey is holding off a reaction until they're found.

edited 22nd Jun '12 4:31:19 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

So, technically this opens the door to a NATO response outside of the UN but I'm not sure what we should do. We could, I guess, ask the Syrian airforce to defect into Jordan or get bombed to death.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

RE Sudan joining Arab Spring: Well, it was bound to happen when they got the bright idea of withdrawing governmental support from all fuel products, which inevitably led to skyrocketing gas prices. Nice Job Breaking It, Herod.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Just an aside, if the Turkish plane had wandered into Syrian airspace and ignored any warnings, then the Syrians had a right to shoot it down. It is, after all, a combat zone.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."