Redefine/Clarify: : Well Done Son Guy

There seems to be some to confusion as to who exactly the "Well Done, Son" Guy is. The trope page's description implies that it would be the parent who utters the phrase. However, a large portion of the examples provided cite the child as the "Well Done, Son" Guy. Some tropers have stated their confusion about it in the trope's respective discussion page, so I decided to bring it over here. Was the parental figure specifically in mind when the trope was first made?

If it's the parent, then description should probably have a note of clarification somewhere in the description. If it's a son, then a rewrite of the description will be necessary.

Either way, it would also require a rewrite of some of the examples afterward.

I've always parsed it as a quote: "well done, son guy."

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

What they said. Well done, son guy. With the son guy being the son and the person saying it being the parent.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I figured the trope is about the relationship, rather than the actual character.

Fight smart, not fair.

(Argh...put the title twice. Oh well, no huge consequence.)

That's a possible interpretation, though I personally feel that "son guy" sounds a little awkward, and if anything, sounds like a teasing/derogatory term from a bystander of the whole thing.

I think most people are reading the trope title as thus: "Well done, son" Guy. Hence, the confusion, as that can be interpreted for both the son and the father.

EDIT: If the trope were to be interpreted as the actual situation, then it might as well be retitled as simply "Well Done, Son" or something else to that effect. However, the word guy and the trope description itself suggest otherwise, so...

edited 19th Jan '11 5:41:01 PM by Bakazuki

The problem with "well done, son" is that it's not dismissive of the son in question, it's just a pronoun like "dad". The "guy" indicates that it's the only descriptor he thinks of him.

Fight smart, not fair.

Bakazuki, I think the trope is about the character who wants to please the other person, but I could be wrong. I can certainly see how the current trope name and description might be a bit confusing, especially since the trope apparently does not just refer to father-son relationships.

The trope does seem to have a lot of use though so I guess that limits our options here a little unless there is quite a bit of misuse (which I doubt). I think the main issue I have with how the trope currently works is that (in my opinion) the title does not indicate that the "guy" wants a certain person to tell him "well done son" or the like. I can understand how one might think the title is referring to a father if one does not look at the trope itself.

I am interesting in hearing ways to fix that or explanations as to why the current trope makes sense as it is.

edited 19th Jan '11 6:04:01 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Well I parse it as "Well Done, Son" Guy, as in "I want to hear my dad say "Well Done, Son."

But it's really a misleading title if that's what it should be. Something like Wants Daddys Acceptance is more fitting.

edited 19th Jan '11 6:38:20 PM by SalFishFin

I also read it as "Well done, son" Guy. As in, the character whose motivation or role in the story could be summed up as "Well done, son". I naturally read it as referring to the son instead of the father because the son is usually a more central character, but either one works. Honestly, I don't think it matters that much because the trope is really about the relationship, and not either of the individuals. Just chop off the "Guy" and call it a day.

edited 19th Jan '11 7:02:19 PM by Clarste

If you chop off the Son, people are going to start listing standard father/son relationships.

We still haven't proven misuse. Just the people are coming to the right trope for different reasons. Yes, the trope name is being read in different ways, but they're all ways that are the trope.

edited 19th Jan '11 9:13:58 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I get how people could be confused by the title — "well done, son guy" (the guy who wants approval) versus "well done, son" guy (the guy giving the approval'').

But mostly the examples seem to have worked out it's about the person craving approval, since that's the person the trope tends to be the most relevant towards. The one case where I think this could turn problematic is on character sheets — if you have a "Well Done, Son" Guy listing, does that mean the character in question craves approval from their parent or has a child that craves approval from them? That implies different characterization.

Is there misuse there?

Otherwise, I'd suggest maybe a redirect or something. Craving Parental Approval or... someone could probably come up with something better than me. I don't mind the title personally, but Redirects Are Free.

edited 19th Jan '11 10:04:43 PM by Tyoria

It's not just about one or the other though. It's a trope about the relationship between the two. It's NOT just Craving Parental Affection. It's a specific sort of parent child relationship.

edited 19th Jan '11 10:05:55 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Well, sort of. It's a relationship where one partner wants approval and the other isn't giving it, or at least isn't perceived to be giving it.

But that tells you something about their characters. That's motive. For the "son" in the equation particularly, since the desire can be almost their single most important motivation.

I parsed it like INUH, though I can see people parsing it as "'well done, son' guy".

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

The Laconic and Playing With pages support the "Well Done, Son" Guy parsing.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I can't help but think that whether you're talking about the parent or the child you're still correctly referencing the trope...

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I have always interpreted the trope name as "Well done, son" guy - referring to the parent from whom the child wants approval. Example: "I consider my father a Well Done Son Guy, because he never says he approves of me and I want him to."

I must admit it's very confusing to see the trope name being used to refer to the child instead of the parent. Maybe, to alleviate the confusion, the name could be changed to "Well Done Son Parent" or some equivalent, to emphasize that the trope is referring to the parent from whom the child wants the approval?

Well Done Son Parent sounds like a winner here.

Not Well Done Son Parent — this one is for fathers. EDIT father figures, sorry.

My problem with the name is that the father isn't giving much approval — they are an emotionally distant father. The name is easy to read as the opposite. I can see getting a good name is tricky, but it would be good to have a name matching the trope. (I interpreted it as well done, son guy! with son guy being a dadish term of endearment. All these diverging interpretations are a bit of a sign.)

edited 8th Feb '11 11:20:08 PM by Camacan

Hyphens could solve all ambiguity. Either Well-Done-Son Guy or Well Done Son-Guy.

Although Known Unknown's point is a fair one—it may not be consistent, but it's probably correct either way.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

As far as diverging interpretations, I've always read this as "well done son, guy". Even after reading the explanation for it, "well done, son guy" makes no sense, thanks to the bizarre phrasing of "son guy". My two cents, anyway.

Yep, I understand that consistency and I agree it's about the relationship and it does not matter if you approach it via the father figure or the son, but it's still seems 180 degrees off the mark. The name says "Well Done, Son" Guy. The trope is more He Never Says Well Done Son.

Another thing to remember is that the examples given on the page aren't limited to fathers alone—mothers who don't give their children the needed approval are mentioned, too. That's why I suggested "Well Done Son Parent" or an equivalent.

How about "Denial Of Parental Approval"? Catchy, rhymes, and it catches the point of the trope well.