Pokemon's Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors, especially how Grass>Rock and

It's worth noting most Dragon-types learn Flamethrower or Fire Blast.

Yeah, they're kinda closer to European Dragons.

European Dragons also include D&D though, which basically invented the idea of different types of dragons being associated with different elements. As that carried over into Final Fantasy, it's long been a tradition for dragons to be somewhat Elemental Embodiment-like.

And the fact that there are any dragons at all that don't naturally learn fire moves implies that they're not strongly associated with fire.

If I recall correctly Kingdra can't learn Fire moves either.

All Clarste was saying was that dragons aren't always fire-breahters (which Locoman had implied). And he was mostly talking about the non-Pokemon ones.

edited 14th Apr '11 7:44:50 PM by Customer

Eh, I just went to Bulbapedia, clicked on three random dragon-types and none of them learned fire attacks naturally. I don't think it's strongly associated with fire in Pokemon either.

Ah, that explains even more.

Dragons are more or less reptilian.

reptiles are coldblooded and don't do well in low temperatures.

I think that's the logic behind it. It makes a lot of sense actually.

edited 14th Apr '11 8:02:21 PM by Vertigo_High

Pretty much, since Dragons and Fire types are very distinct in Pokémonology.

And I suspect most Dragons get their secondary types due to either Dragons having flight capabilities or balance purposes.

edited 14th Apr '11 7:56:22 PM by Kinkajou

As I recall, Dragon Rage looks like they're breathing fire, but they're actually breathing dragon. It's important to make the distinction.

^Well, going off the name, they're more likely breathing a manifestation of their rage.

Or maybe some kind of flammable substance with properties differing from normal flames. Dragonbreath would probably be similar.

Dragon seems to be more like bug and ghost in that it's not really assigned with a particular force of nature(like fire or electric) or power like psychic(who use their mind) but rather the being itself.

edited 14th Apr '11 8:06:53 PM by Vertigo_High

So we can divide Pokémon types into two: Elemental and Essential?

Although some types could straddle the divide, like, say, Psychic.

Like I said before a "Dragon" type attack is actually an anti-dragon attack designed to pierce a dragon's hide. It's associated with dragons because they developed those techniques to combat its own kind. This comes from the old legend that only a dragon's fang can pierce a dragon's hide.

The types exist and are well distinctified (sp?) and justified, it is just that the game interface can only present us a bare rundown appropiate for easy decision making. That's why Steel is inmune to Poison, whereas there being Steel-types with meat organs and tissue, they should be affected by those moves anyway. Also consider that one thing is that of what the types are, and another thing is what the moves are. There are such thing as "sound", "wrapping" and "cutting" attack categories in code as of G4 IIRC.

All this as discussed in The Pokedex Extended Fanon Edition chatroom.

edited 14th Apr '11 10:00:47 PM by SilentReverence

Flying beats Grass and Bug because birds eat those.

Flying resists Fighting because being airborne means a physical attack just alters your trajectory, reducing damage. No idea why Flying ATTACKS are effective against Fighting Pokemon. Blame it on balancing issues.

Grass beats Rock, Ground and Water because plants break up rocks as they grow, and absorb minerals and water for nourishment.

Psychic beats Poison because purity triumphs over corruption. Psychics resist Fighting because they can read their opponents' minds and react before the attack lands, softening the blow. Psychic moves work extra well against Fighting types because they attempt to physically resist the attack, putting extra strain on their bodies.

Rock beats Bug because you can smash a bug with a rock. Bug beats Ground because bugs live in the ground. Bug resists Fighting because bugs are armor plated sacks of fluid that move their body via changing the fluid pressure in their limbs, whereas Fighting moves are designed to deal with bodies designed around an internal framework, with motion produced through the tightening and relaxing of high-tension fiber bundles.

Psychics are weak to Bug, Ghost, and Dark because they are the three most common fears, but there are also really cool explanations for in-universe:

Bugs have a wholly alien mindset that Psychics cannot read, so they can't predict the enemy's next move, so they can't react ahead of time to soften the blow. Since they can't read Bug minds, they can't mess with them. I imagine Bug minds as being like an endless maze of mirrors.

Ghosts have evolved specially to feed on and manipulate spiritual energy, making them very good at preying on Psychics. Since Ghosts are made entirely of spiritual energy, entirely physical Fighting and Normal moves have no effect.

Dark Pokemon have a negative spiritual presence. Psychic moves have no effect because it's like a black hole on the spiritual plane, and Ghosts, being made entirely of spiritual energy, are harmed by their negative aura.

Normal types have a very small spiritual presence, so there's next to nothing for Ghosts to work with.

Fighting types beat Dark types because Fighting types have honor, and stuff.

TL,DR: Psychic = Psykers Ghost = Chaos Dark = Necron Normal = Tau

Steel is weak to Fire because metal melts. Steel is not weak to Water because Water does not need any extra help. Steel is weak to Fighting because Strong Flesh, Weak Steel. Steel is weak to Ground because earthquakes destroy buildings and metal can degrade through exposure to erosion. Steel is not weak to Electricity because of balancing issues. Steel is meant to resist most elements ans have only a few weaknesses, so to balance things out they made it weak to the three most common elements found in movesets. So Steel sucks against Ground and not Electricity because fuck it, it's not like Earthquake is that popular a move, right?

Dragon is weak to only itself and Ice because it's meant to be a mystical power, totally disconnected from the physical world. Ice saps dragons of their power ala entropy. That and they had to throw the Ice type a bone, what with it being one of the three suckiest elements.

All of those are pretty good, but the reason Dragon loses to Ice and Dragon is because Dragons are meant to be mighty reptilian creatures, and as such are weak to the cold brought on by Ice, and their strong scales are only truly vulnerable to the power of another Dragon.

As for Steel, it's weak to Fire due to steel gaining and retaining heat easily, effectively broiling the pokemon inside its own skin, while Water isn't effective against Steel due to rust requiring time to take effect, not happening instantly when an attack hits. Fighting beats Steel due to Fighting types pretty much being Charles Atlas Superpowered beings, which can punch through flesh (Normal types), stones and ice (Rock and Ice types), and even metal (Steel types), and also possess the skill to outmatch the otherwise tricky Dark types.

I thought Steel not being weak to Electric was because electricity and metals are commonly used in tandem for most electronics.

How about Water resisting Steel or Ghost resisting Bug? Or Dark being weak to Bug?

I'm guessing Bug>Dark is probably similar to Bug>Psychic.

Water does already resist steel. Oh wait you're asking how. I'm guessing steel sinks in water or something? That's kind of stupid though lol.

Ghost resisting bug...got me there.

edited 25th Mar '12 10:05:23 AM by VertigoHigh

I guess that's due to water rusting metal.

Which I find kind of odd because a lot of additives are used to prevent rust and corrosion to metallic materials.

Heck, that's one of the main purposes of stainless steel.

edited 25th Mar '12 6:36:29 PM by hnd03

Maybe Bug > Ghost cause insects don't get scared like people can?

Wait, is it Bug > Ghost, or Ghost > Bug?

edited 25th Mar '12 6:56:17 PM by TechPowah

Hey, it's not a perfect explanation.

Ghost resists Bug. It's why Sableye has no weaknesses. And why I'm okay with romhacks making Dark weak to Steel, however shaky the reasoning.

I'm overthinking it.

edited 25th Mar '12 8:32:28 PM by hnd03