XO relieved over video

So I finally made time to watch that video that was floating around,and I just wasted 12min of my life; I can't believed they relived him for that. You see racier stuff on SNL; the fuck is going on America?

edited 5th Jan '11 10:28:42 AM by Kino

Actually, he was only XO when the vids were made (three years ago or something). He was relieved as Commanding Officer.

Kind of late to punish him on it, I think.

If I don't actually want to see the video can someone just describe to me what was so horrible?

Just watch it dude.

Yeah, I forgot about that bit.

Well I'm at work right now

...fucking navy man.

Sailors acting like sailors, why is this a big deal?

edited 5th Jan '11 12:14:25 PM by thatguythere47

We're more politically correct? Hell if I know; what pisses me off is the fact that they waited till now.

I've heard scuttlebutt about a lot of CO's being relieved for stupid stuff (and a few legit things) in 2010. Some were skimmer pukes, some were bubbleheads, and at least one was at a shore command. I think the Big Navy's tolerance for antics and stuff is at an all-time low - so in that light, I'm not surprised they canned this guy.

Smashing your boat into something or someone, getting water into the people tank, haivng guys under your command getting killed, gun-decking records, being the ENG on the USS Red-Nosed Express, and a few fraternization issues.

There wasn't much that was offensive in the first half except for the fag comment and once again, they're sailors man.

You would expect such antics out of deck sailors, yes.

But an officer? Much more is expected out of them. The officers I served with all held themselves to a very high standard of personal conduct and standards (yay, redundancy!). Officers aren't supposed to be one of the boys, they're not supposed to have a few drinks with you after hours and address you by your first name, they are there to lead by example.

If Major Tom manages to go from Green to Gold, he'll learn all about that first-hand.

edited 5th Jan '11 12:42:02 PM by pvtnum11

Oddly enough, the only people who have a problem with fraternization are other officers.

I think that work and romance mix very badly, regardless of setting.

However...

I'm fine with the officer that can share a few jokes, chat about fatansy football stats, doesn't mind eating an MRE with you in the field and all that, but I think an officer needs to have a little bit of separation from the enlisted personnel. I'm not advocating the concept that an officer should be so distant that they can't lead their personnel effectively (we had one LT that was like that), but they shouldn't be so close to them that you end up with favoritism or stuff like that.

Just like NCO's need to have a little bit of separation from the junior enlisted. Slightly different, as the NCO should still remember where they came from, so to speak.

Of course, I was just a junior-enlisted REMF in peacetime, I might not know what I'm talking about.

No, you summed it up pretty well.

Curious civilian question: about what rank do you start seeing this disparity?

Yeah, segregation between officers and soldiers sounds freaking depressing. They don't do that in guerrillas.

Well, guerrilla forces are pretty much inevitably smaller and less organised. Less room to distance yourself.

I imagine a certain measure of psychologial detachment may be healthy in a warzone. After all, odds are you'll be sending at least some of the folks under you to their deaths.

edited 5th Jan '11 4:08:45 PM by Iaculus

^

I started to vaguely notice it when I made E-5(Staff Sergeant). All the E-3's and below were nervous about talking to me because they thought I was always looking for something to chew them out for. After spending some time with me they learn that I'm not one of those NCO's at all, I'm a little more close to my airmen than other NCO's approve of, but it's never been a problem. I've had some really bright folks work for me, and some serious dirtbags, but I've never had someone under me who didn't perform for me, because they knew I had their back.

And I have no problems with inviting everybody in my squad/fireteam to the bar on the weekend, E-1 to E-anything. I even have a few Lieutenant friends who I hang out with from time to time, though I knew all of them either when they were civilians, or when they were enlisted first. One guy I hang out with used to work for me, then he got commissioned. It's funny because he still acts like I'm his boss even though he's an officer.

When I was an E-4 it was culturally acceptable for me to mingle with all the airmen, because I still pretty much was one. The only difference is that by being the top dog airman, I basically had the right to just drop everything and tell them what to do if it came down to it.

edited 24th May '12 1:00:02 AM by JosefBugman

I try to emulate the leadership style of a SNCO I used to work for. He always said "If you know how to inspire, you never have to command. If you have to command, you're not leading properly."

His main premises that I try to take from him is that I never use my rank as an excuse to do armchair "supervising", watching my guys do shit while I sit back and watch, I always pitch in for the heavy labor.

I get to know everyone who works for me, I know what's going on in their personal life to a pretty good extent, and I'm always there as a confidant.

I will fight for them no matter what, so long as they are honest with me. If one of my guys makes a small mistake, I will probably cover it up if I'm told honestly and up front what happened by the person in question. I won't let my unit hang my guys out to dry over a simple screwup, they have to be a legitimate screwup who did something they definitely shouldn't have for me to just let the punishment happen.

I try to keep conditions good for them. When I'm in charge of a decent sized group, I don't chill in the control center, I spend the entire ship driving from post to post, hanging out and bullshitting, monitoring my guys fatigue, and if need be letting them take a nap if they are head bobbingly uselessly tired, while I watch their post.

The return to all those things is that your crew will love you for it. This means that you don't ever have to really talk to anybody about your own accomplishments to get them noticed, your folks will talk about how awesome you are for you. And when you screw up, they'll go to amazing lengths to cover your ass, as opposed to them letting you flap in the breeze if you're not a good boss. Such as when my boss left his rifle in the bathroom, and when it was found I took the hit as an Airman and said that I had custody of it at the time and it was my fault for leaving it. Because I was a young e-nothing rank, I pretty much got the "Stupid new kid" wrist slap, where as my boss would have gotten paperwork.

edited 24th May '12 1:00:13 AM by JosefBugman

I honestly don't like to lead. I'd rather follow someone else who leads by the same standards I do, then I'm just as happy and don't have all the responsibility. But when I get a shitty supervisor, or nobody steps up, I'm content to step up.

edited 24th May '12 1:03:32 AM by JosefBugman

EDIT: Ninja'd like hell. Good writeup, barkey.

Disparity in terms of separation...?

Bit of a history lesson.

I was Specialist E-4, and thus junior enlisted. The Marines are different, IIRC, in that they consider a Lance Corporal E-3 to be a Junior NCO, which is vastly different to how the Army treats E-3 - Private first class, and thus not authorized to give orders to anyone. An E-4 in the Marines is a Corporal, and thus a noncommisioned officer. The Army did this wierd experiment way back in teh day and realized that technical specialists needed to get paid commesurate to their skillsets, so they split the enlisted ranks into typical NCO ranks and grades, and Specialists. I actually have some old Special E-6 and Specialist E-7 shoulder rank devices at home. Back in the '80's, the Army did awy with all the Secialist rates except for the E-4 one, hence why it was 9and still might be) called Spec-4. i knew an E-7 in my unit who was converted from Spec-5 to Sergeant E-5 - same pay grade, but he had to learn real quick how to lead soldiers. I think he was still deficient, years later...

A Non-Comissioned Officer is responsible for the well-being of the personnel under their charge, enforcing discipline, setting the standards of conduct and behavior, and serves as a go-between for the actual officers and the enlisted pesonnel who have to carry out those orders. An officer is asked how he should dig a foxhole. The proper answer is "Sergeant Snuffy, go dig us a foxhole," and the sergeant rounds up some junior enlisted soldiers and makes it happen. The officer is akin to a manager, an NCO is similiar to a supervisor. You have differing levels of management (vice presidents, CEO's, stuff liek that), just as you have supervisors, assistant supervisors and leads.

The whole goal of all that, in both the civilian world and in the military realm, is to have a Chain of Command. Orders come from the top levels of the chain and filter their way down to the people who have to carry out those orders. Information and feedback is then shoved up the chain, so that the top levels of that chain know what's going on at the bottom. If there are communication breakdowns in that chain anywhere, the whole thing risks falling apart. If you, as the junior enlisted soldier, can't do your job becasue you don't have the resources to accomplish your mission/cook me some fries, you can do two things - ask a buddy for help, and go to your immediate sergeant and ask for assistance. If they can fix your problem, cool. If the sergeant can't, they will kick the matter up the chain, usually to the platoon sergeant. That doesn't resolve your problem, it might go two ways - to the head NCO of the unit, the First Sergeant, or to the Platoon's Lieutenant, maybe depending on the nature of the problem.

So with this constant up and down of orders, gripes, feedback and stuff going on, it is imperative that certain measures are in place to avoid screwing this flow of stuff. If you're dating your battle buddy, no problem, as you are both on the same level in the chain of command. But if you're dating your immediate supervisor, in order to avoid possible entanglements and perceptions of favoritism, they may move either of you to a different section so that you're no longer in the same chain of command. I HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THIS GETS SCREWED UP.

The higher up the disparity in authority goes, the more you have to move people around to avoid this conflict of interest. basically, if you drew up an organizational flow chart, no two romantically-involved people should be in the same chain of command, unless they're on equal levels - two sergeants want to date, as long as they're not reporting one to another for comand purposes, no biggie, we had what amounted to a Battle Couple in my unit for awhile.

Now as an example, say your co-worker is dating your NCO, but you can't seem to get along with to save your life, so you bring it to the attention of yoru NCO - that your co-worker is dating. You think you'll get a fair deal? the emotional attachment that the NCO has with the soldier may cloud their judgment, and you end up getting told to 'suck it up and deal with it', despite the fact you have a legitimate concern.

This gets worse if the two people are trying to hide it from everyone else. This is what happened in my unit. It is also what happened in the sister basic Training Company across the way from mine - some Drill Instructor was having relations with a recruit. How fair and impartial do you think he was in grading her performance as a soldier? It gets out in the open, and things get ugly.

Fraternization will screw up careers if they don't report the relationship when it starts. It's okay to report it. Someone wil get laterally transfered, and life goes on.

edited 5th Jan '11 4:38:28 PM by pvtnum11

I don't like the pressure and responsibility, I prefer to follow, but have very high standards when it comes to who I would want to follow, because I've been spoiled by several absolutely outstanding leaders.

Well I think one of my old schoolmates whose going to Sandhurst might do well for himself, he's the sort of guy who will act like you I think.