quitting Writer's Block

I've decided to quit posting my story ideas to Writer's Block. This isn't out of paranoia of having my ideas stolen (in fact, I'd be flattered if you stole my ideas). Instead, it's because I don't think it serves any purpose.

Most of the time, I don't get any useful advice, and it basically has no real effect to post my ideas.

And every so often, people trash my ideas and get me feeling depressed and wanting to drop the story. This is despite me not actually agreeing with their criticism - just feeling the sting of the criticism nevertheless.

I get the feeling that I really don't belong here. I'm not the same kind of writer as you guys. Most of you seem to pay much more attention to Tropes Are Not Bad than Tropes Are Not Good, and would rather write something popular than something original. I'm the exact opposite. I'm the kind of person who, upon seeing that a trope is marked Always Male, immediately tries to write a female character like that. I'm always wanting to twist things around to write something no one else has thought of, and make people think in the process.

So I'm off to find a different writer's advice forum.

I rarely see any good advice here so I hardly ever post. It's a forum full of people screaming "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME!"

As far as the quality of the actual criticism goes, even though I know I pretty much suck I can't take any critique lightly. There's something weird about writing as apposed to other skills that makes it really hard to receive criticism without getting pissed.

edit Guy below me (saying that makes me feel powerful for some reason ahhahahahahah) I didn't think enough before I wrote that. I take it back.

edited 15th Dec '10 8:17:46 AM by hhjhgjh

I think you're thinking too highly of yourself, too low of us, and applying a double standard, Ettina, but good luck with that. Hope you find what you're looking for.

Really? How so? To me, writing is one of the easiest places to get critique, because all it takes is a couple of tweaks. Ever get critiqued for art? Now THAT is a pain in the ass.

Plus, there are two threads atm that are devoted to giving con crit, and they usually succeed too. Of COURSE people are going to want attention, if they were writing a story solely for themselves, they would not be putting it in this thread in the first place.

To assume it's a bad thing is pretty foolish. There needs to be a give and take, yes, but you only need a couple of critics for a bunch of writers.

edited 15th Dec '10 8:13:20 AM by MrAHR

I love the fact that you're talking down to all of us for trying to be "popular" when you've made a thread just to inform us that you're leaving.

Sorry I'm not "original" enough for you. ;________;

If you're not getting helpful advice, you're looking in the wrong places. If you aren't using the advice that others give, at least think about the advice before you dismiss it.

Going out of your way to subvert tropes isn't necessarily the ticket to uniqueness; in fact, I don't think tropes should even be considered when you're writing.

If you want to leave the subforum, though, go ahead.

edited 15th Dec '10 10:06:21 AM by Everest

I think (unsurprisingly) that too many here are too aware of tropes, whether playing straight or subverting, and pay too much attention to them versus an actual story or non-troped characterization.

^ I try to avoid that. I'm aware of a great many tropes and actively try to use as many as I can find, but only if the trope works in the sense that it answers one key question: "Can I build a scenario or story around this and make it improve the overall work in general?" Many times this answers yes. Others not quite.

Characterization wise I'll only add intentional trope usage if I can actually work the trope in as if I could find someone in reality who exhibits such behaviors.

In short, good story and good characterization come first for me, trope usage is only supplementary and only then if it improves good story and good characterization.

edited 15th Dec '10 11:52:14 AM by MajorTom

I can't ever associate tropes to my work. I mean, show me a trope, and I can give you a yes or no answer, but I never can really use tropes outside of combat uses.

Nice flounce there Ettina. But for a writer who is big on subverting things for the sake of subverting things it is pretty standard. Initially polite but also condescending. Not content to just leave you have to inform the people who are clearly beneath you that they will be denied your presence because they failed to be like you. And a little bit of bitterness over criticisms you didn't like.

edited 15th Dec '10 12:21:09 PM by Alkthash

@AHR: I'm somewhat like that. I don't think in tropes. Some tropes I know well enough to know that they apply without having to try too hard. There's a reason why the tropes page for my story is woefully out-of-date.

@Tom: sounds like you have the right balance.

@Morven: I agree. Heaven have mercy on me, I'm even betting on it. Our current generation is, really, really meta. Seriously, how many of us get our news from a satirist? Yeah, a lot.

I've scrapped several pretentiously self-aware rough drafts upon realizing that all I was doing was saying, "hey, look at me! I knew about this trope, and now I'm subverting it! Yay, I'm so clever!" (The Onion just recently published a satirical example of this, putting the iPad on their list of influential people and cheerfully bragging about how "witty" they were, though the link refuses to work.) If others make the same mistake and fail to recognize it, the result will be a rain of unpublishable, "witty" tripe, and those who manage to avoid such a tempting pitfall will have an easier time of it. (Playing with tropes is perfectly acceptable, of course. Subvert, avert, and deconstruct at will, just remember why you're doing it.)

Which reminds me, I've recently taken to having LeechBlock block TV Tropes exclusively when I want to do any writing, and firmly recommend it. Despite knowing it makes me a worse writer, I'm still hyper-aware of tropes. I'll recover eventually and find the proper balance eventually, I'm sure. Major Tom's got the right idea, it seems.

edited 15th Dec '10 2:00:41 PM by KillerClowns

So would Ettina still be reading this topic? I'm just wondering.

Prolly not. I know I wouldn't. But that might just be because Ettina has a life outside of the internet.

I feel like you're painting us with too broad a brush, Ettina—I mean, plenty of people (myself included) strive for originality. Anyway, I'm going to miss you around here, and I certainly hope this doesn't mean you've given up Nephilim as well.

(and @ whoever said that making a goodbye thread was odd,I'm glad she made it. I would have wondered.)

edited 15th Dec '10 1:50:26 PM by DaeBrayk

It also takes time for some of us to give anything insightful and may require pages of debate on a given matter until something clicks and we can offer useful stuff!

Just like how it took me 38 posts in your "Sympathetic Rape?" thread for me to actually ask something useful and provide a good suggestion.

edited 15th Dec '10 2:07:29 PM by SandJosieph

don't you think leaving for the critics is like, i dunno, running away

nobody likes having their works critizeced(bad spelling, i know) , but they will always be somebody that doesn't like what you made and not all of them will be nice. wouldn't it be better to learn to find the way not to feel too depressed about it and to take out the useful in the flamings than to simply go somewhere where people are nicer?

as for the attitude thing, there will hardly be a writing forum or literature class were people are not stuck-ups. all writers are proud in a way or another, i include myself and by the Fridge Logic some have pointed out i really dont think you can exclude yourself either

all in all, i think you are harming your own writing by leaving a forum due to critique than anything else, but it your decision nonetheless

then again you probably won't be reading my oh so inspired words ¬¬

god has gifted me with a talent for the Esprit D'Ecalier, so it seems

Aw. I really enjoyed the input you gave me for my story. Also I didn't mean to turn down your idea.

<reads what was written>

OP, I don't imagine you have a right to be surprised. If you wanted to leave, you should have just...well, left, instead of taking the time to insult everyone before doing so. I'd say writing this is pointless because you've already left, but somehow I doubt it.

If you truly wanted to leave, you could have just disappeared into the internet and we wouldn't have noticed. By posting, you show that you are more interested to see if people here will miss you.

And up until you posted that, I would have. Now, on the other hand...

<loses interest>

So, who wants a critique?

First of all, I'm sorry if I personally insulted you with one of my comments. I didn't mean to discourage you, even if I did that anyway. At the very least, people here are trying to give useful advice.
Also, thanks for all the advice that you yourself have given in this forum in the time you were here. It is very much appreciated.

That said, the "would rather write something popular than something original" line was genuinely insulting, since, at least from the impression I've gotten, most of us here are not seriously aiming for publication for the time being. I think that most of us don't even think about "playing tropes straight to get more readers". (Again, that's just my impression.)

Anyway, goodbye, and good luck with your writing.

I'm too ignorant of tropes to ever have this worry me!

Ignorance Is Bliss

Sure, some people intentionally use tropes. You can also intentionally defy them, block the site or even leave the forum. Or, you can just not care. Not care about tropes when you yourself write, and certainly not care about how much other people care about them. Their writing is their business, tropes are a fun website's business, and your writing is yours. It works fine for me, and my piece is in the WB forum itself. I can only speak for myself, but the OP failed to read my mind about that and my intentions for my piece. And possibly, like those who overuse straight tropes or push too hard for attention, cares too much—just at the other end of the spectrum. This subforum may not be on the right side, but it's still not nearly serious enough business for a thread like this.

Also, I've been to other writing forums before, and from what I've seen, the criticism gets way more biting than it is here. Good luck—you may need it.

edited 16th Dec '10 5:33:20 AM by SPACETRAVEL

Did you post this after that Sympathetic Rape thread? Because...Rape Is Okay When Its Female On Male is a trope too. It's one of the tropes that most of us agree is bad.

But whatever. Good luck finding another forum. It probably won't be too hard to find people who agree with that trope.

edited 16th Dec '10 12:09:43 PM by Ultrayellow

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to insult anyone. (And by the way, I'm still doing the Nephilim thing - if/when I can actually get around to it.)

I just thought I should let people know why I was leaving. I'm also thinking I might continue to comment, just not post any of my ideas. Depends on whether I think I can actually do that (posting stuff here is a bit addictive).

I don't think I explained myself very well, but I'm not sure how to clarify.

Well, Ettina, you can try and find a common theme in what you want to reply to, and try to rephrase it. Just elaborate more.