Super Smash Bros.

I think he's arguing against your claim of "fuck nerfs with the sole intention of making something worse", which is like, the entire point of nerfs.

Honestly, we need more nerfs than buffs. Chars like Jiggs STILL haven't been buff since the games LAUNCH! Maybe smash for the NX, if it actually exists, will give buffs to some of the lesser characters.

I still don't understand why Jigglypuff got, like, no buffs at all.

Because Jigglypuff is already perfect as it is?

The only one that's perfect is King Dedede.

Well, Jigglypuff is perfect as it is as an inferior creature. King Dedede is just inherently better, so that makes him more perfect.

Funny thing about the tier list:

My friend thought that Yoshi should be higher because he's powerful, and was surprised at Mario and Sonic being S tier because they lack KO power. I told him that it's more to do with combo potential and speed.

A good nerf is something that makes something overpowered into something more balanced, yet still fun to play as and against.

A good buff is something that makes something underpowered into something more balanced, yet still fun to play as and against.

Not just "lets make this worse/better", but, "lets make the metagame healthier by looking at some issues certain characters have".

And I think Sakurai is now adamant on having Jigglypuff as a Joke Character, and he is getting obnoxious with that.

Jigglypuff is the best character...

I'd prefer Jiggs to be a Lethal Joke Character.

I just think that Joke Characters works better if they're Lethal Joke Characters. It's kinda funnier that way to me.

It's always funnier that way.

I don't really play with Jigglypuff enough with other people to know exactly how I feel about her gameplay wise, but I am aware of her cons, though.

About Lucas, though, I've played with him so much that I consider him one of my primary mains and have had some success playing online (and in real life) with him. I think his gameplay just really clicked with me. I can see why some people think he's a low-tier character though. He's pretty difficult to master. (Even I still have trouble landing his PK Freeze.)

And LOL at that video.

edited 1st Oct '16 11:19:48 AM by kablammin45

Generally, you don't see PK Freeze or any other attacks that telegraph in high-level play (unless they're going for style). PK Freeze in particular isn't normally that helpful a move, anyway. Unless you have a specific plan that requires its use, you're better off availing of Lucus' many other options in the grand majority of situations.

I was able to use PK Flash really well when I play Smash Wii U in my old vocational class yesterday.

Also, I was Bayonetta one match, and everyone tried to team up on me. I still managed to get second out of 8 players (I lost to a Marth user because of the tipper). But they didn't gang up on me when I was Cloud (re: Second best character in the entire game behind Diddy Kong).

Well that's good. I mostly rely on Lucas's other specials anyway.

Do you guys think we could get more new third party fighters for Smash 5? If yes, who do you think would be in?

I do think that we might get more third party characters, and I'd think that Shantae, Shovel Knight, and/or Rayman would be most likely. I wouldn't mind seeing a second Namco rep if they're making it (I'd prefer Klonoa or Lloyd, but I wouldn't mind Heihachi showing up).

I'd not be averse to Raiden.

Or, yeah, Shantae. Or maybe Lilac instead of Shovel Knight?

I'd also like to see either Raiden or Snake, plus Bomberman and Simon Belmont, but I doubt they'll be in because Konami.

Bandai-Namco does have some interesting choices. Nightmare is one of many, same with Lloyd. Of course, there's quite a few Digimon that would work amazingly well, but the issue is making sure their key gimmick(which are transformations as is) would be workable, but balanced. Otherwise, a moveset and costumes are super easy. Then again, considering sometimes costumes are pretty... meh at times(Sonic and Pac-Man's are awful, Cloud's are mediocre, and at least Bayonetta and Ryu's are good)... who knows.

Nightmare's key point is massive reach and some pretty large swings and hitboxes, despite the crap speed. Lloyd is obviously being a proper dual-wielding swordsman, where it's far more focused on than the small bit that Pit and Dark Pit do at best.

I think that if there is going to be a character from a Namco fighting game, it will be Heihachi.

Nightmare would be pretty awesome, though.

Even though it won't happen, I would like to see Dante (not the reboot version) in Smash as well.

Wasn't Heihachi rejected because Sakurai couldn't think of a way to make him unique? That said, yeah, he's also an excellent choice. Related, I wish we got a Nightmare Mii Swordfighter costume.

I don't know why Sakurai couldn't just take the moveset he has in Play Station All Stars, but there might some issues there.

Well, his explanation was more that he didn't "stand out" like some others. This is why Ryu was DLC and not in right away. He had to make him do more than just combos to feel super unique, since gimmicks were Smash 4's specific thing. Ryu having input commands is pretty much why he got in over many others. Funny thing is, many characters have input commands too fighting game-wise. Heihachi, Fulgore, Nightmare(just to name a few). Fulgore quite literally being a shotoclone with the only key difference having teleports and reflector moves doesn't help either.

Smash 5 could change a lot. Heihachi does sound like a great choice, and hopefully gimmicks won't be the focus this time around. That said, I do think he's still going to have a limited amount of 3rd party characters either way. He seems to still focus on Nintendo, with 3rd parties being a good selling point, being "The best character game in the world" and all. His words, mind you.

edited 4th Oct '16 12:08:06 AM by Irene

I think Jin would be more dynamic. He can have a moveset borrowed from both Jin and Devil Jin. (A could be Jin's "projectile" from Tekken x SF, and up+A could be DVJ's screw kick into hover, for example.)