The New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium!

They still consider themselves human then? Innnnnteresting.

Except for Yoshika and Tojiko.

Who identify as a Jiang Shi/Zombie and a Ghost respectively.

Well, no, technically none of them identify as human. Seiga identifies as a hermit, Futo identifies as a shikaisen (despite being listed as "human?" in her profile) and Miko identifies as a saint. I think they'd all identify as "more than human" rather than "inhuman" though. Certainly different from youkai.

edited 6th Oct '11 7:56:44 PM by Clarste

Magicians get called youkai for removing the need to eat or sleep. Hermits get called hermits for removing the need to eat. Shikaisen get called Shikaisen (human?) for removing the ability to age. I'm thinking that magicians need better PR.

The interesting thing is that this time, we can't assume that the Taoists are out of touch and just don't understand all the peace and harmony and stability of Gensokyo.

Miko has been keeping an eye on everything. She knows the status quo. She doesn't like it. She wants to free Gensokyo of Buddhist tyranny despite its only Buddhist temple was only built within a year ago.

No wonder the youkai felt threatened. Miko and Crew are the biggest potential troublemakers that Gensokyo has seen in a while.

I'm sure the "Ma" in "Mahou" doesn't help much.

Although it's implied that Magicians use what could be explicitly called youkai magic. They do turn into youkai after all.

Well, sure, that's what the Man wants you to think. Anyone that does an honest day's hard work and study to gain power is a youkai. Anybody that kowtows to the religious and philosophical mandates, oh they get a fancy shmancy word for them! You follow the power structure and you get to be a Celestial or a Shikaisen. You do some work on your own, you're a monster. Its just another way to maintain the manocentric maleocracy.

The Man?

Patchouli's parents really were hippies, weren't they?

The hippiest. Patchouli's sister Mary takes more after them. Patchy is more of an inside kind of girl so she couldn't continue their hippy ways.

I actually enjoy that, Bocaj. I wonder if there's anything about youkai magicians that makes them more like youkai than saints or hermits. Does this setting follow a strict division between divine power and magic?

Enjoyed what? My semi-coherent rant?

Yes, exactly! It's actually an interesting question! The category of "youkai" is so broad that I'm starting to wonder how they decide what supernatural beings to apply it to and what not to. Or if hermits are actually youkai. Wasn't there a character who thought gods and youkai were one and the same?

The idea that there might be prejudice wrapped up in the taxonomy is really interesting to me.

I don't think it breaks down as simply as that. There's basically every flavor of Functional Magic represented.

Hermits are supposedly delicious to youkai.

edited 6th Oct '11 9:19:00 PM by Clarste

Good point. If Bocaj's wild ravings were true, though - if the youkai magicians were just classified as youkai pejoratively, I'd expect it to be a holdover from the days when gods actually ruled nations and led armies against each other. They probably wouldn't take to kindly to individuals amassing the power to challenge them through unapproved channels.

If Byakuren's backstory is any indication, magicians draw power from the existence of youkai. So it's sort of like Deal with the Devil magic, insofar as youkai are devilish. It's also named as youjutsu, which kinda makes the connection pretty explicit.

I can only assume that Marisa uses youkai mushrooms that grow in the forest.

edited 6th Oct '11 9:24:42 PM by Clarste

The arch-heretic Byakuren.

Reminds me of the dragonpact mechanic D&D introduced in the fading days of 3.5, where characters seek out a draconic patron and bargain for new abilities. The player wins because they get a nifty power or two, the dragon wins because there's now a network of people with a vested interest in keeping it alive - not quite vassalage, but something sorta like it. So of course Byakuren would secretly save and relocate the youkai she's supposed to be whopping. ...So is she still operating at a hundred percent, meaning her youkai buddies are still alive, or is she significantly weaker than she was in her prime? Does she have a photo album of all the critters she owes magical favors to?

On the other hand, if you focus on the "existence of youkai" angle then the complaints fall flat. Like, we live in a magical world of wonder and excitement, in which youkai exists. The same magic that allows youkai to exist can be used by humans. But because no deity or whatever has authorized them to use magic, then the reclusive witch is practicing black magic, in sharp contrast to the miko who may be casting a spell with identical effects. What Bocaj was ranting about, Unequal Rites.

And since there's no mention of Marisa making any sorts of pacts, it sounds like it's the latter situation.

You did?

You did.

Gimme a sec... okay. If you go back to that post, edit it and delete that line, then it'll look like I didn't flunk reading comprehension and my picdump was officially sanctioned. We'd have to edit subsequent posts to remove references to the altercation, of course. And then there's the matter of all the forumgoers who might have stumbled upon my little mistake. So while you're doing that, I'll have to go around, discover everyone's real-world identities, then make sure they can never refer to the event ag...

Hmm, that's a lot of work. I'd have to hire subcontractors, and I don't make that kind of money. Air fares alone...

Alright, plan B: that wasn't a picdump. I know, I know, it looks a lot like a picdump, at least to the untrained eye. But there's no watermark, so it doesn't count. It's just a bullet list of links to pictures on Danbooru's mirror. Not a picdump. So I didn't miss some instructions, and people got to look at some occasionally pretty pictures. Everyone wins, and nobody has to worry about cut brakes or cougars in the laundry room or anything.

edited 6th Oct '11 9:59:38 PM by Tacitus

I find it interesting that all the worst people in Touhou used to be human or are connected to humanity in some way. I wonder if it was intentional on ZUN's part. Also, I'm pretty sure I've brought this up before so I'll save it for when I do a write-up on MAN, the most dangerous game.

Basically "anything inhuman" is what I've noticed with things like ghosts tarred with the same brush.

Delicious like rare candies. Both satisfying and level upping.

Y'know, that's a point. Byakuren claims that gods and youkai are basically the same. What if she draws power equally from the existence of gods or youkai which is why she makes that claim? She palled around with Bishamonten, she had plenty of time to notice.

"Yo, Bishie. You sustain me just like a nice, fresh chilled youkai."
"You are a weird individual. Is there someone else I can talk to?"
"Pshaw. I know this tiger?"
"That will work."

Youkai power is natural power. Taoists study the natural world and SCIENCE up some sweet power. Some youkai such as nekomata are associated with necromancy. Taoists can bring back people as unholy but cute abominations via necromancy. Magician youkai have cheated death by studying and casting spells that stop them from aging and as a sweet bonus stopping them from having to eat. Taoists can cheat death by literally cheating death, switching their body with a fake.

One of these is okay. The other is the behavior of dirty youkai. Step back and squint and what is even the difference? Where the power is coming from? Okay, so you called one type youkai power and the other not. I guess its really different.

And if ZUN says its different, then its different. That's how it works.

But there is a plot bunny there. Hopping about, wriggling its nose, losing its coat and shoes in farmer McGregor's garden. Will we ignore that bunny? Or will we shoot it for starring in a delightful children's tale about hubris?

edited 6th Oct '11 11:52:14 PM by Bocaj

Let's shoot it, have tea with it and then go on to an Extra Stage!

Now there's a mandividual who understands how Touhou works!*

I'll put the kettle on.

Ah, we have a trope about that. Yes.

So it seems there are three power types: Human Power, which is from SCIENCE, and is rarely used, apart from the Taoists only Rika, Rikako, Yumemi and Chiyuri use it. Type 2 is Youkai Power, which is natural and unnatural at the same time and it is the most common. Marisa uses this, unless her magic is Human Power. And finally there is Divine Power, which is powered by Faith^TM and is used by gods and mikos (but not by Miko). Reimu uses this despite having no faith to speak of.

If Reimu's route in PoDD still means anything, it is apparently somewhat difficult to tell the difference between Reimu's Divine Power and magic (which I guess would count as Youkai Power?) Or, at least, Yumemi and Chiyuri couldn't tell/didn't care about the difference.

I really want to say that there is no major difference between the "types" of magic, that they are different "shades" of the same thing; though no one involved would ever admit that, especially if they are a god or a Taoist. Well, Byakuren would, but no one would admit to agreeing with her outside her own faction.

I do think the Taoists are, if unknowingly, closer to the youkai they oppose than the humans they claim to protect and supposedly represent.

edited 7th Oct '11 5:54:07 AM by Otherarrow

Remember that humanity's biggest ally in the series is half youkai herself.

If I recall correctly, Keine was born fully human and became a were-hakutaku later, which is why her "hakutaku form" is still humanoid instead of beastly. How she became a were-hakutaku, I don't know.

Unless you were referring to someone else? (Rinnosuke? He's a dude.)

Bitten by a radioactive ox.

Maybe Keine was a person fated to be half-youkai. That was a thing dangled about by Remilia's PMISS entry.

"Hello, Ms. Vampire."
"Hello Ms. Human. Sakuya, give her complimentary bite ointment and bandages."
"That's an oddly specific gift."
"No, no. Think nothing of it. I'm just a silly eccentric vampire ohohohohoho FATE MANIPULATION!"
"..."

Rather disturbingly, I can easily see Remilia acting like that.