Game of Thrones [Potential Book Spoilers]

A problem was that seven years is a long time to work on a project like GOT.

A lot of the cast was just burnt out. The problem was that "D&D" should've asked for some help given that this wasn't a standard network show. They could've gotten someone to bounce some idea off of or brought in some outside writers to help wrap up the season. Another idea would have been a huge tv movie to wrap things up: the fans would've been down for it and HBO's marketing would drool over a "television event."

Instead they went with a writer's version of Oven Logic - rush the season and try to tie up as many arcs as they could. Well, just like turning the oven up gets you a burned cake, speeding through the season gives us what we got.

There's a noticeable bloat in both the show and the books. George R.R Martin acknowledged it as the "Mereenese Knot" , i.e the fact he needs a bunch of plotlines at a certain place to get the plot moving, but this is becoming harder and harder as the twists and turns to get there make the journey longer and longer, like a writing version of Shortcuts Make Long Delays.

Martin, in his interminable writing process, is trying to untie the Mereenese knot of his own making, while D&D decided to just cut it. Both approaches bring their own problems. The books are bloated beyond belief by A Dance of Dragons (and the possibility looms they'll never be finished) and the show ends up blazing through plotlines and losing much complexity in the way.

As Devil's Advocate, the actors were burned out by season 7. So there was a risk of even the big talent phoning it in.

Again, what should have happened was some help to stick the landing. No one would be 100% happy, but at least it would be engaging television. At least a couple more episodes to help wrap things up.

I kinda think the actors were bored because the writing had become so unengaging. The writing had been going downhill since Season 5. And it REALLY went down hill by 7 and 8.

If the showrunners weren't enthused and excited, of course your crew isn't either. I think the writing issue probably started first, but I think everything kinda compounded on itself. Bored showrunners lead to bored actors leading to even more secure-in-their-boredom showrunners.

It's not like the actors had anything particularly exciting to work with by the end. The time of big speeches like 'Power is Power', Tyrion's Trial, King Rob's King in the North speech, or, hell, even moments like Kat begging for Rob's life at the Red Wedding; those moments were long gone. They didn't exist anymore. Look at how many memes there are about Jon saying "x is my queen" or some inane variation of it. It's not wrong.

That I still somewhat dispute because there were moments for some characters. Varys in particular was very clearly a character D&D loved and so he kept having big speeches until the very end, which is why he was consistently one of the best characters in the show (and the quality visibly plummets once he's gone).

The productuon staff had the opposite problem, the focus on spectacle as the show went on was more grueling and demanding in the later seasons, and they were suffering severely as a result.

Unfortunately he also got hit with the Idiot Ball a lot in the last season.

I don't think there's any character who came out looking good in the last season and funnily enough, the "Bran was the true main antagonist all along" crowd got some vindication in the end, considering he's the cause behind the Disaster Dominoes that paved his way to the throne.

The script went it was officially online for the last episode even had some missing dialogue that implied he was indeed the Evil Mastermind, and Jon just dismisses it as him being quirky.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 13th 2020 at 10:12:22 AM

The way the season plays it is that Daenerys' growing isolation a major factor contributing to her Jumping Off the Slippery Slope - most of her support network either dies (Missandei Jorah), grows distant (Jon) or turns against her (Varys, Tyrion in a fashion).

Jon's reveal as the actual heir to the Iron Throne pretty much kills their relationship because a) Jon has reservations about the whole "being related to each other business" and b) Daenerys grows paranoid about him usurping what she's seen as her birthright.

Now how did that last thing happen? Jon - who, I'll remind you, was pretty adamant about not wanting any power even before he knew about his heritage was told by Sam, likely as a form of revenge against the person who killed Sam's brother.

And Sam only knew because Bran told him - you know, the guy who can pretty much see everything and would have known that Jon didn't want the damn job.

That Sana decided to break her word about keeping silent and tipped off Tyrion and Varys, leading to the latter's plot to assassinate Daenerys also didn't help.

It's actually rather weird how the Stark reunion people were waiting for pretty much ended with Jon being screwed over by two of his foster siblings for power.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 13th 2020 at 7:24:44 PM

Honestly if it had just come out and said that was Brans intent, I could buy Danys descent so much easier. He even quotes chaos is a ladder from Littlefinger the season before.

The Stark reunion changed to Sansa and Arya because Bran is for all intents and purposes dead as he himself acknowledged it, Jon is a fucking idiot, and Arya is a little psychopath but otherwise alright.

Sansa was basically the Only Sane Man walking around Winterfell by the time they reunited.

Edited by Gaon on Sep 13th 2020 at 10:43:23 AM

Except she isn't - she constantly undermined the alliance and explicitly broke her word when leaking Jon's parentage to Tyrion (and Varys).

Overall, the conflict between he and Daenerys was incredibly contrived because it required both characters to somehow turn into petty idiots - Daenerys suddenly demanding people to kneel after negotiating a deal with Yara's Ironborn just earlier and Sansa just abandoning all pragmatism to just constantly piss of the person with dragons that came north to actually help them survive.

As I said, nobody came out of that season looking good.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 13th 2020 at 7:59:15 PM

Interesting thing someone noted is that the two actors to have perhaps done the best breaking out after game of thrones was Jason Momoa and Pedro Pascal who were only around for a season. The others are mostly known as Game of thrones actors well they have more or less gone onto become stars without the attachment with many roles. What do you guys think ? Agree / Disagree ?

They even confirmed in interviews and the like it's that Sansa was jealous of how pretty Dany is. That's the most petty Cersei kind of act possible.

Honestly, the only character I can remember who got out of this season looking good was Jorah - who died before shit could go completely sideways.

I still find Sansa's actions roughly logical and sensible (as much as anyone can be in late GOT). Daenerys and Jon are both idiots and the former did nothing but antagonize Sansa throughout most of her stay. I don't blame her for going straight for the jugular.

Given how Sansa was treated like absolute crap ever since leaving Winterfell, I can buy a take on her character where she's now inherently distrustful of anyone not from back home, which would make foreign queen Daenerys ungodly suspicious in her eyes.

Yeah, Sansa is a strange case where she HAS logical reasons for things... but then the show doesn't frame those points as anything but her being petty or a bitch. But then she has illogical moments... but the show needs them to happen for story so... *shrug*. Her saying that Dany should rest her army after a grueling Long Night is a fair point and would have been valid in Season 2 or 3 under Robb... but painted as her being obstinate and not backing Dany. And doesn't matter since this point; if it was right or wrong, never comes up again. Making the line kinda pointless. Or her question of what do Dragons eat is supposed to be this petty catty remark at Dany's expense... except her last season arc has been her growing into the role as Lady of Winterfel and EXPLICITLY discussing food storage and food SHORTAGES in the North.

Sansa DOES logical things, but the show uses the worst framing or justifications for those actions to make her look terrible. Sansa is fine on paper, but not in the context of how the show tells the story. It really doesn't help that the show is uninterested with having characters. ACTUALLY. FUCKING. TALK. so we never really get a scene with Sansa and Dany where they talk and trade power and we can get a better understanding of their relationship and movements in the show. They REALLY needed scenes like the one Olenna and Tywin got back in Season 4. Or Tywin and Joffery in Season 2.

But, again, the show's writing isn't interested in that anymore. It is SPRINTING to that finish line and character consistency or logic be damned.

Frame of reference, Tyrion is praised as a strategic genius... except when he fucks up because the plot or action sequences need him to. Like... putting civies in the crypt while fighting a necromancer. But the show NEVER portrays that as a stupid idea. But, yes, Sansa is wrong and a bitch to criticize the logistics of trying to feed dragons that, not more than a few seasons ago, flew around the countryside eating whatever goats or children happened to look tasty. Having the biggest army but being unable to feed them sounds like the premise to a backstory exposition story Martin would have used for the books in the first place...

Edited by InkDagger on Sep 14th 2020 at 1:48:13 AM

And she's so petty despite how logical her ststements are, because she's jealous of how pretty Dany is. Seriously the after the episode interviews and the like are the worse, and people didnt catch on to how bad of an idea these were until the last teo seasons showed the inconsistency and writing of Word of God.

Going back a bit, I'm on board the 'Bran was the real villain' train, because if he wanted Jon to 'claim his birthright,'all he had to do was say nothing. No one knows who Jon is, he stays with Dany, King in the North marries Dragon Queen, everyone is happy (except Sansa, but at that point she was Littler Finger, so honestly screw her) If Bran actually can see the future, he had to have screwed everything up on purpose.

Jon's reveal as the actual heir to the Iron Throne pretty much kills their relationship because a) Jon has reservations about the whole "being related to each other business"

Which isjust another failure of the writers because aunt/uncle marriage isn't that weird in Westeros. The books have a couple examples in the past and considered during the events of the story.

I mean, Jon suddenly develops modern values, because that's how medieval dynasties thrive.

Weren't the Targaryen's especially infamous for their inter-family relations?

Hell at the start of the series, wasn't Dany confused at the idea of marrying Khal Drogo because she had grown up expecting to marry her brother due to awareness of the Targaryen's practice for incest to maintain blood purity?

Bran being behind it all is The Indoctrination Theory of television.

The what?