Code Geass

Wasn't there some example of Japanese nationalist extremists in the original show anyway?

Yes. They were called "The Black Knights".

ok fine

the "more extreme than the extreme" ones

it had something to do with locking down a tower or something

It was more because Lelouch viewed them as petty rather than them being too extreme.

I believe the group in question was the Japanese Liberation Front, which consisted of former military personnel. They did carry out a hotel kidnapping and other more typically terrorist acts, like starting to kill hostages off unless Britannia accepted their demands.

The Black Knights were, of course, created out of a resistance cell of Japanese nationalists to begin with, but most of them weren't military personnel. More importantly, when Lelouch founded the Black Knights he explicitly points out that they will stand for "justice" and against oppression, not simply for Japanese liberation at any cost. That's the political discourse he develops and saving the hostages taken by the JLF was their first public act.

Which is one of the things that allows them to become more popular and effective, even if their membership is still mostly made up of nationalists and freeing Japan is still their common objective. It's not that they're less extreme, per se, but Lelouch comes up with a platform that makes their cause conceptually less narrow-minded and puts it in practice by punishing Japanese drug dealers and corrupt officials alike during the next episodes.

edited 3rd Oct '12 4:44:51 PM by Madonis

Kaguya was the only Japanese character with comparable intellect. Or perhaps, remaining, with what happened to the rest of the Six Houses members post-Black Rebellion.

Lulu can claim 'justice' til the cows come home, but at the end of the day the primary goal is the liberation of Japan, that's the point he be labors.

Yeah, but his rationale for Japanese liberation (both in public and in private) wasn't "because Japan rules!" but "because Brittania sucks!"

True, and there is the point that Japan is the newest Britannian territory. I'm just saying there is a big nationalistic feeling behind the Japanese in particular.

I have to say, rewatching Geass, moment to moment the action and characters actually can be pretty entertaining and good, but when it deals with the underlying themes or if you ponder the logic behind certain decisions, it tends to fall apart.

Japan was the starting point of the rebellion for many reasons. Not to say it was trivial by any means, only step one as intended. Japan is liberated -> the other territories are motivated against Britannia -> the rebellion goes worldwide -> the Britannian empire is gone for good and can't bother anyone again.

The point I'm getting at isn't about in-universe explanations for why Lelouch chose Japan (the easiest being 'because he was there'), the point is that the writers chose it because it would appeal to a Japanese Nationalistic instinct.

Or they chose it because, since it's a Japanese production for a Japanese audience, Japan is the default setting unless there's a pressing reason not to set the story there. Most Slice of Life anime series are also set in Japan, but I don't think that has to do with nationalist sentiment.

But they're inseparable, we're saying the same thing. They created an alternate history story which had the Po D mainly effecting the Europeans to create Britannia, and they use that to show the suffering of the Japanese. We wouldn't have set Red Dawn for example in Canada. There's a sense of national pride in being La Résistance that cannot be ignored; and the writers go out of their way to give the Japanese a prominent place of importance in the world they normally wouldn't have (Japan having Sakuradite when IRL they have very little national resources).

Japan's a strategically important country in the series, but the Japanese freedom fighters usually end up stepping backstage while their Mighty Whitey leader and half-and-half Ace do most of the important stuff. Suzaku's the only full-blooded Japanese guy who achieves Main Character status, and he's fighting against Japanese liberation.

The mistreatment of the Japanese in particular though, at least in R1 (which is the only one with anything close to thematic consistency), stands out. We don't see mistreatment of Numbers in say South America.

Did we see South America at all?

We just know it's part of Britannia. I'd assume there has to still be a population of non-Citizen Numbers there.

Creator Provincialism, in short.

One of the benefits of setting this OVA in Europe is that we're going to be seeing at least a couple of additional regions. The first episode mostly focused on Paris while Narva was only used as a battlefield, but I'm sure they'll move to other new places in due time. I'd like to see more of the areas under Euro-Britannian control myself, since we only caught a small glimpse of them near the end. I imagine Suzaku's arrival might give us a chance to see things from the other side for a little while.

edited 4th Oct '12 4:56:23 PM by Madonis

Is it just me or am I the only sane person who is aware of how stupid hatred for the CG character Shirley Fenette?

Doesn't every character get their fair share of hatred?

I mean, I for one think Kallen gets too much importance; Viletta, Oghi and their subplot are pretty dumb and Nina can go die.

But with the exception of Oghi, Nina and Tamaki, I'm sure they all have their fans and I'm just not one of them.

edited 4th Oct '12 6:46:14 PM by UltimatelySubjective

I hate how she was used. She was only a plot device to torment Lelouch. She herself is just your average sheltered privileged girl with a pure heart and zero awareness.

From what I read on another forum she was hated for being "self-centered, selfish, and jealous". Aren't nearly all people who look for romance or attention in this world have their fair share of jealousy? If anything her death pretty much became the end of all innocence in the show. Both her and Euphemia. However, thanks to Charles using his Geass to erase everyone in Ashford's memories of Nunnallythe show got a reset button. Shirley was a party unaffiliated with any sides of conflict in the war of Britannia, and Japan, much less the Geass. If anything the most justified hated characters are those of Viletta, Ohgi, Diethard, Charles, Marianne V.V.

EDIT:

@The Handle

I don't think she's really sheltered bro. Also she wasn't really to torment Lelouch but more provide the more humane side of him similar to Nunnally. I don't think she's really sheltered. She's pretty aware of the whole conflict but is a more wide-eye idealist.

edited 4th Oct '12 6:54:26 PM by Couchpotato20

I agree with you, but to be broader, that's a problem with most characters really. They stop functioning or rarely function as characters and act mainly as props or obstacles. And one of the cardinal rules of writing is that every character should think they're the main character of their own story.

A lot of times I just feel like the writing fails Geass's premise and promise. It isn't uniformily bad, there are sparks when it's focusing on moment to moment action, but as I said whenever it tries to reflect on something or try to say something it thinks is profound, it falls all over itself.

Not sheltered? All the Ashford girls are fucking sheltered, but her especially. There's a scene of her being indignant of Lulu not picking up the phone intercut between scenes of her nation's soldiers brutally massacring hundreds of Japanese civilians.

edited 4th Oct '12 7:04:23 PM by Scherzo09

@Scherzo09

Shirley pretty much did think her and Lelouch's story was that of a love story. Annd most of the times her and Lelouch romance was mocked heavily by Milly because she couldn't spit it out.