Code Geass

Actually, I'd say they were there because the Black Knights were becoming too big and too notorious to keep hidden among Japan's civilian population, so the writers needed some place outside Brittanian control for the Black Knights to set up their base of operations.

In other words, the China arc basically exists to set up the UFN. That's the only thing I can say.

It does come across as a bit rushed and simplified towards the end though, but that's R2 as a whole for you: although the writing was never particularly great, R2 usually makes its problems more evident.

edited 31st Aug '12 9:49:17 PM by Madonis

That's bullshit, they just wanted a reason to keep the plot moving without actually addressing anything of substance. The writers, as I think we can all agree, tend to write themselves into corners over and over again.

You could set up the UFN inside Japan; though I'll admit it may not have given an opportunity for a dramatic "Liberation of Tokyo", but I'm sure there are other means for that.

edited 31st Aug '12 9:52:35 PM by Scherzo09

Oh, I guess we can.

That's what most of the plot twists in R2 (plus Euphienator) do: serve as shortcuts to write the story out of real or perceived corners.

edited 31st Aug '12 9:54:04 PM by Madonis

And they're absolute shit.

Still, I do like the ideal of an epic Liberation of Tokyo. Perfect music for it:

Zero to all KFs, we're going to take back Tokyo today!

edited 31st Aug '12 9:58:02 PM by Scherzo09

Heh, unrelated, but this Summary of Hamlet my Shakespeare Prof used for a Sample Essay reminded me of Lulu:

You know Lelouch is shown reading Hamlet in the first episode, right?

I'm pretty certain the similarities are entirely intentional.

(I'm not sure where I heard it, but I swear there's an interview out there were the creators flat out call Code Geass a "Shakespearean revenge tragedy").

ETA: Actually, a while back, someone in fandom linked me to an essay they wrote for school comparing Code Geass to Hamlet - it may have been on the Live Journal community. They had a few other character comparisons, too - Euphie as Ophelia, and Suzaku as Laertes (with a bit of Horatio).

edited 4th Sep '12 2:39:58 AM by Drakyndra

The parallels are there. Except, of course, it wasn't all revenge. And people were already dyin'.

I think you've actually mentioned the before. I brought up before that Lulu takes a lot from Hamlet. I sincerely wish that actually came through more, that Lelouch was more like Hamlet. Would've added more pathos to the proceedings.

Also would want to make the world a bit more grounded, but that's just me. Would make the more spectacular elements stand out more.

Oh and I noticed all those character parallels too. And what Hamlet did to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern was a very Lelouch thing too.

edited 4th Sep '12 1:08:17 PM by Scherzo09

That sounds a little more like Sasuke. Of course I doubt Naruto would have any such Shakespearean pretense.

He has some Pathos as is, just think if it were framed more like Hamlet, it'd be more engaging.

So, umm, I actually sat down to watch all of Code Geass and R2, and I umm, well, I'm having a hard time fully.... understanding what's just happened. Especially with R2, they seemed to set up this really intersting universe and cast of characters but.... good lord what were they thinking!

Why is everyone an unlikable asshole?

Why do the nice characters who aren't assholes (e.g. Shirley, Nunnaly, Euphie) have to die or suffer so much?

Why does Ohgi take over the Black Knights and betray Zero just because he's a Britanian prince? for fuck's sake, his girlfriend is Britannian! How does Zero secretly being Brittanian have to do with anything? Oh his Geass power? You've trusted in Zero this far, why do you think he's been manipulating you guys just because Schneizel said so? It's not like Schneizel is even trustworthy!

Why does Rolo kill Shirley? Your brother having a girlfriend isn't going to take him away from you!

Why the hell was Suzaku laughing after taking part in nuking a city?

Why did Luluoche become a worse tyrant than the tyrants he fought against? Just so Suzaku could kill him as Zero and suddenly the entire Britannian family would crumble and everyone would get along forever? What about "making a better world for Nunnaly" Lulu? I'm sure she'll be fine with no big brother to look after her, and the other boy who could take care of her has to live forever as a masked vigilante. Seriously, WELL DONE on that one!

Good lord, what happened? the worst thing is they try to play it up as a "happy ending" but it just feels twisted and wrong! W Hy are the "good guys" arguably more evil than Brittania by the end? It doesn't make any sense!

I read the warning, about this show being a "trainwreck" but..... nothing on earth could prepare me.

edited 7th Sep '12 6:56:09 PM by Rethis

Welcome to Badwriting City. Population: the Sunrise staff.

Ah. Yes well. Let's see.

For starters I guess there aren't really any good guys. The only truly good characters aren't able to keep up with the ones who compromise morals. I don't think any of the other characters are 100% likable. I still liked some though.

Ohgi? He's just kind of fickle by the seems of things. Probably still thinks of how things were back when he was important in the Black Knights. The takeover was dumb though, and the fridge logic of what happens to the other nations who aren't getting something out of the deal (unlike Japan) makes the Black Knights all look bad.

Rolo? Yandere.

Suzaku? He wasn't really laughing...

Lelouch? Over-sized ego and redemption complexes.

I would have liked to see an actual happy ending too. Not for Ohgi though.

So how did you feel about the first season then? Have to say I still mostly enjoyed both seasons.

The only things that really bothered me in the first season were Euphinator, Lelouche wiping Shirley's memory, and other random dumb stuff, but it was mostly okay...

Nope, CG just has bad writing and is honestly... kinda retarded at times. Not gonna lie. And that has NOTHING to do with being over the top; I love TTGL to death. It just lacks any sincere core to it.

In defense of one thing though, they knew Zero was Britannian before hand. It was the whole being a Britannian Prince and having mind control powers that turned them against him.

edited 7th Sep '12 7:27:07 PM by Scherzo09

I suppose so, but even that's still kind of confusing because they've trusted Zero so much and he's always been able to give them results, and Zero had already done a lot of questionable stuff on the battlefield before, why is "him being a prince" and having mind-control be the one straw that breaks that camel's back? as long as Zero wasn't using that power to harm the interests of Japan and the Japanese, why should they care?

But the worst part was them making Ougi the leader, when say, someone like Todoh or Kallen was far more qualified. remember when Zero left durng the Black Rebellion and Ougi wound up getting himself shot by Viletta? Yeah, he sure is a great leader.

I guess it makes them question all their actions up until then. That still doesn't exactly explain trusting Schniezel against Lelouch. It might be a 'Better the Devil that you know' type of deal, but that doesn't excuse bad writing.

Wouldn't it be ironic if despite appearing to be on his side, Viletta eventually backstabbed Oghi?

And I'm not even convinced that's the worst decision that the Black Knights have ever made.

I think Ohgi might have been a clumsy attempt on showing how groups tend to elect the worst possible members for positions of leadership often, even over those more deserving.

Eh, I think the show wanted us to believe there was some kinda earnest charm to him, since he does become the Japanese Prime Minister after the series ends. I'd really chalk this one up to bad writing, as well as the writers not knowing what they wanted out of him.

While I personally dislike the idea of Ougi becoming a successful politician, he's always been a high-ranking figurehead in the Black Knights and nominally led the original resistance cell. Going into politics seems to be just a valid extension of his career and doesn't really demand too many outstanding skills, since elected leaders aren't always supposed to be extremely competent or universally likable.

Going a bit beyond that particularly topic, I think sometimes people tend to blur the lines between bad writing, senselessness and simply not liking an idea or its execution, when strictly speaking they can and do refer to different things. Code Geass R2 has more bad writing than actual senselessness, for example, and even then there are a few situations that are more disliked because of certain unpopular details rather than being uniformly problematic, at least on paper.

Most of the questions previously posted by Rethis are relatively easy to answer or even self-evident based on what happened during the show, not issues that the viewer can't possibly resolve or come to terms with, despite also being open to greater or lesser criticism for any number of reasons, good or bad.

edited 7th Sep '12 9:13:12 PM by Madonis

The shw's not even all that bad, when it really comes down to it, on the whole. I felt more confused more than outraged over bad writing. The ending's the big thing, though, am I the only one who found te ending of R2... not bad, just incredibly inconclusive and confusing?

edited 7th Sep '12 9:21:37 PM by Rethis

The show really isn't that bad. Whatever else you might say, this is a solid narrative if nothing else. It has all the necessary elements.

Believe me there are much worse.

In general I managed to enjoy the increased pace of R2, except for episode 22 onwards when the time flow starts jumping too much. We miss more than at any other point in the series.

Zero Requiem happened because Lelouch had a death wish over Nunnally's perceived demise and the betrayal.

Rolo killed Shirley because she uttered the one thing he felt anathema to himself: Nunnally.

Ohgi should have by all rights told Villetta to GTFO after learning what she was responsible for (head of OSI watching over Lelouch just so she could be a noble). That they both got the happy ending in spite of all they were responsible for, and incompetence in the former's case? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a stealth message on how people in real life get ahead in spite of screwing other people. Just like Jay Leno.

Not to mention, of course, the likes of Cornelia getting off scot free despite needlessly killing civilians cold blood.