The Order of the Stick

In an oddly appropriate way, the development will be entirely internal; nobody else will get to see it, at least not until the very end.

Yeah, the major thrust of the Durkon/Durkula dynamic now seems to be the differences in their perspectives. Much as Durkula tries to fake it, he's not alive and has never experienced the growth that's part of every mortal life—he popped into Durkon's corpse fully formed. Given time, he can learn on his own like Malack, but I doubt he'll have the time to do so. Unless another crazy time skip happens, Durkula's just not going to understand the mortal perspective.

What's the trope for never understanding a character until they're dead?

Did we already know that Durkon's middle name was Allotrope?

I believe not. A rather weird choice, IMO - dwarves are probably into geology, but "allotrope" is really more of a chemistry term.

edited 29th Sep '14 3:26:37 AM by ashnazg

The miner who doesn't know enough Chemistry deserves being blown up when the charge fires...

And just because they don't do Arcane magic doesn't mean they don't do alchemy.

As I think that Wryte alluded to, an "allotrope" is, as Dictionary.com puts it, "one of two or more existing forms of an element"—presumably referring here to Durkula and Durkon: to different "versions" of Durkon.

As to Durkon's discovery here, I think that I took it to imply that Durkula lacks the ability to draw connections between events in general (rather than the specific case of missing how prior experiences inform present characters).

However, my interpretation is probably unviably general—I suspect that it would make Durkula near-nonfunctional, even with Durkon's input; that he doesn't understand character development seems more plausible.

Now, how can Durkon turn this to his advantage?

One thought that comes to mind is carefully choosing which memories he shows to Durkula such that they suggest actions that seem innocuous to the latter, but to someone more capable of spotting connections between them, combine to provide some clue as to Durkon's state.

edited 29th Sep '14 3:06:06 PM by ArsThaumaturgis

And then Roy insists there's nothing wrong and that the other members of the Order are seeing something that isn't there.

So for example, perhaps Durkon could show Durkula all the times he's killed people to make him think he should be bloodthirsty, holding back the memories of when he's objected to killing unless it's absolutely necessary.

That's probably a bad example, as it could be dismissed under the umbrella of 'Durkon's evil now'.

What we what is to get Durkula to express an affection for trees, or hatred for beer, or something along those lines.

I really like how the evil spirit can't see the connection. It makes perfect sense. As a being made of evil, it doesn't really have the capacity to grow or change, and the idea of people changing as a result of earlier life experiences is completely foreign to it. Am I slow for just now realizing that?

I would think that was more a function of order rather than evil. An evil person can change quite well as long as it's in their interest to do so. Contrast Durkon who was trapped into doing nothing to help Roy just because of something his mother told him decades ago.

You're faster n' me, I can tell you that much. :/

And I think it's less a matter of alignment and more of Durkula having been born a full-grown adult with absolutely no formative experiences, who hasn't yet had opertunity or perceived need to grow as a person nor any experience with this thing you call Character Development.

I would say it's not about alignment or experience, and is instead a factor of being the embodiment of a concept rather than a sapient, three-dimensional lifeform.

Like lizardbite suggested, as a being made entirely out of pure evil, the spirit can't understand the concept of growth or Character Development. It exists exactly as it is, because that is all it can be. It sprang into existence fully-formed and will continue to exist exactly as it was created. It has only limited capacity for critical analysis; it can imitate intelligent life, but is itself limited by the nature of its design.

It's like the difference between a learning program and a true artificial intelligence. Durkula can learn new things that help it fulfill its purpose, it can attain a greater understanding of how best to serve that purpose, but it is still bound by that purpose. It is a literal embodiment of evil itself; it cannot choose to be anything but. It can never grow beyond what it is today, and by that limitation, it is not sentient, and while it may someday learn to understand what it means that others are, it cannot yet comprehend the ramifications thereof.

Durkon has found a weak point in Durkula's control: it cannot yet grasp the meaning of Character Development.

edited 1st Oct '14 1:40:42 PM by TobiasDrake

What Measure is A Literal Embodiment of Evil

precisely this.

Sooo... Durkon should show Durkula an old memory of someone on the team which would be completely misleading because that person has changed since then. This would lead Durkula to act like he's forgotten the last year or two, which would at least be a clue. Ideas?

Good point, doesn't have to be him, it can be his opinions of the others.

Well, there's Haley's mistrust and greed, Roy's autocratic approach to leadership, Elan's uselessness... meanwhile, Belkar and Vaarsuvius' development arcs are complex enough for people reading the comic, god only knows what an empathy-vacuum would be able to make of them.

Given the way things have been going, I'd suspect it will have something to do with Belkar. But if he works on all of them, he could turn the entire party against Durkula in different ways. Elan would be particularly susceptible, what with the whole "just because you love someone doesn't mean you can overlook the evil things they do" epiphany recently.

^ Has Roy accepted that Belkar has significantly changed since they started, though?

No he hasn't. In fact, no-one really has.

Roy and Haley ended up having a talk about it after Roy was resurrected and neither of them believe Belkar's Character Development is real at all, they think he's faking it. I can't recall if the rest of the party has an opinion on it.