Girl Genius

Given the bioengineering available to the Heterodynes, the fact that Punch and Judy are physically incapable of reproducing en corpo doesn't negate the possibility that Higgs is a decanted construct combining their DNA. No?

If it moves, eat it!

Agatha and Lilith were created when Bill and Barry were young. Higgs dates back to before the "attack", since O'Kestle recognizes him. That narrows the window quite a bit.

When we learn who Higgs is, it will somehow change the puzzle we see. This is how the Foglios are writing their story. The Who-is-Higgs piece may fill an open space, it may create a space to be filled, it may do both. It may fill a space we didn't realize was there. And having Axel Higgs as the offspring of Adam and Lilith doesn't seem likely to do any of those things. Even Higgs as Mama Gkika's scion wouldn't do that, except in that it would link him to both Mama's teal hair and Zeetha's green hair. Higgs as a Wolfenbach or Higgs as a Heterodyne retainer would. Higgs as a Wolfenbach would probably put an end to any romantic involvement with Zeetha. Higgs as a Heterodyne retainer would allow it to continue. And Higgs as a Hidden Heterodyne could free Agatha from the need to run Mechanicsburg.

Okay that last panel has me visualizing Agatha riding Tarvek piggyback while hitting him with a riding crop. I'll be in my bunk.

edited 22nd Oct '10 8:35:15 AM by tricksterson

Trump delenda est

They were, until they all heard the scream when the marshmallow gun blew up here. we see them being handily outrun by Higgs and Zeetha, who then follow her down the hole. Then Moloch, Snaug and Krosp are with Mittlemind and Mezzasalma and the rebuilt Devil Dog, here, while Higgs and Zeetha chase Zola on another floor of Der Kestle, and run into Agatha, Gio, and Tarvek with Otilla's head in the seraglio.

So right now, the locations are

• In the seraglio:
  • Gil: in the plant
  • Zeetha: dead or dying by the plant
  • Higgs: fighting Zola
  • Zola: fighting Higgs
  • Violette: Somewhere near the fight between Higgs and Zola, but not involved in it (yet).

• On the way to the Library:
  • Tarvek: carrying Agatha and a bunch of tools from Lu's lair
  • Agataha: woozy from being clocked by Violette, being carried by Tarvek, and carrying Otilla's Head.
  • Der Kestle: inside Otilla's Head, being carried by Agatha, who's being carried by Tarvek.

At the top of the Hole:

• Mezzasalma
• Mittlemind (having been rebooted by Snaug)
• Diaz (dead)
• Snaug
• Moloch
• Krosp (presumably)
• The New And Improved Devil Dog

• In Lu's Lair at the bottom of the Hole:
  • Du Medd and
  • Sleipner, working on
  • Von Pinn's body; and making sweet, sweet, sparky mad music together.

• Somewhere else in the castle:
  • Othar and
  • Sanaa, and
  • the rest of the prisoners.

Krosp is the only one of the main group who isn't clearly accounted for; we don't see him with Moloch and Snaug and the scientists, but we don't see him follow Higgs and Zeetha when they chase after Zola, either. Which means that he is currently a Shrodinger's Cat, as far as location goes — he could be either place. His inclination as a cat is to not exert himself any more than necessary, so he could reasonably be somewhere around the top of the hole, out of the way; but he takes his responsibility as Agatha's "liege" seriously as well, so it would be equally in keeping for him to have decided that she need his help and be somewhere around or on his way to the seraglio.

edited 22nd Oct '10 10:12:09 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

It would be Just Too Much to have Krosp actually biting Hot Pinky's leg. I'm not sure he'd risk it; I'm not sure he could catch up (though we know how cats can sprint). But it would be kind of niiize to see.

Speaking of which, Moloch has a little history with Krosp. He hasn't made an issue of it. Maybe he doesn't recognize the appropriately dressed Napoleon of Cats; maybe he realizes that he has worse problems.

---

Hey, give Escher his due here.

• Der Kestle: inside Otilla's Head, being carried by Agatha, who's being carried by Tarvek —inside Der Kestle.

edited 22nd Oct '10 10:11:50 AM by GreybeardFan

True about Moloch and Krosp having a history — I knew that Krosp had attacked someone to defend Agatha, but couldn't recall who. My guess is that Moloch doesn't recognize Krosp, and Krosp doesn't care, since Moloch is now Agatha's minion.

And nice point about the Escheresqueness of that list.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

So since it looks like they're going to split the party as was predicted, are they also going to turn the outcome of the Higgs versus Zola fight into a cliffhanger?

Regarding Tarvek, no matter how you read him, Tarvek HAS to come across as possessing at least some Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. I mean, how else could the final showdown with Anevka and The Other make any sense? He's basically got every faction in the ring on equal footing, with himself as referee.

Eric,

I don't know that I'd say Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, necessarily, but he was raised in a byzantine world of "everybody has a plan and no two people have the same plan"; He is, right now, on Agatha's side, but we don't know why; it could be that he's decided she's the one most likely to win in the end, it could be that he's in love with her, it could be because she fits in 'his'' plan better than anyone else; it could be because restoring der Kestle is in his best interest against Klaus... We don't know how deep his loyalty to her runs.

edited 22nd Oct '10 10:38:31 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

About halfway through Sturmhaven(halen?) it because evident that Tarvek was on Agatha's side and Agatha's side only, and was willing to connive and betray anyone - good or evil, family or foe - in order to protect her.

Nearly all his backstabs, and there were a lot, can be seen as being done to prevent other people from hurting her or being a danger to others. He may have Chronic Backstab Disorder, but he's also relatively goodhearted, and uses his powers of betrayal for the side of good.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Duress when your own family is planning to use you as the scapegoat, your associates have been planning to use you from before birth, and you are surrounded by rabid armed Geisters who want to kill you given any encouragement at all by Lu, seems implicit. Appear to cooperate with Lu in the hopes of learning something and finding an escape route...or die.

Looks like duress to me.

And "backstabbing" implies an unwarranted betrayal. In Sturmhalten Anevka was selling Tarvek down the river before she even got back in the Castle, AND Tarvek took the time to establish she was a) turning on him, and b) about to kill Agatha before he acted. Lu he betrayed. Agatha, so near as I can tell, he "betrayed," in the sense of overthrowing or altering her own plans, but it looks like that may have been in the cause of a greater loyalty to her and desire to extract her alive with no chance to really explain his intentions to her.

So...he straightforward took Lu (the Big Bad) for all he could, stopped Anevka when she proved totally determined to betray him and ready to kill Agatha, and Agatha he got out of the Castle alive.

Yes, there are details and motives left unanswered, and I am waiting to learn one way or another. But the confirmed list to date doesn't constitute backstabbing as such. Backstabbing is more in the department of a gratuitous tendency to betray even your faithful friends.

I think my objection is that the evidence, even from Sturmhalten alone, indicate he's a heck of a good adaptive undercover agent — more successful than, say, Wooster was. But being an agent for Good in Sturmhalten meant being "apparently" willing to work with some serious villains, while marshaling his resources. Nor is there any indication he sought out the position he was in, on any count: he was born into it, and bound to it, without ever having any more say than Agatha has say regarding her Sparky Heterodyne elements. He's just dealing with it the only way open to him...and fortunately he's good at the game.

But that's not the same thing as gratuitous betrayal. In regards to Lu and Anevka, to some degree it appears to just be awed willingness to go with what the Fates hand him with gratitude and relief that they made it easier than it might have been.

edited 22nd Oct '10 11:34:38 AM by Hippogrif

Mostly Harmless.

So, here's a terminology question: do we have a term to differentiate between a despicable cad who betrays his closest associates for fun, profit or to fill the tedious hours, and a very good "operative" on the side of right, whose very vocation demands some subterfuge and betrayals of enemy operatives — and sometimes even some fake-outs of presumed friends and allies?

I mean, there is a difference. Some of it is the indifference of the true backstabber, but some has to do with the difference between gratuitous gaming, and situational/circumstantial betrayal as a sort of occupational or environmental hazard. Being a very good operative who is loyal and honorable = a Wooster. Being a very good operative who's got no moral compass = A Zola, or an Anevkabot.

Mostly Harmless.

The closest that we have is Guile Hero.

Hmmm. That's not a bad first choice. Hadn't run into that one before, but, then, I am not a really addicted Troper. Thank you, Jackalyn.

My own argument would be that, even taking Sturmhalten as it is, Tarvek comes across as more likely to be Guile Hero than Chronic Backstabber...and that canon since then has strongly strengthened that evaluation.

There really should be more terms for this role. It's central enough to fiction. The Thomas Crown Conniver? The Player? Our fiction loves a successful smooth operator who can ring the changes on a sting or a fast fake-out.

edited 22nd Oct '10 12:49:37 PM by Hippogrif

Mostly Harmless.

Btw, thank you for the earlier capsule-concept of why Tarvek doesn't go armed, Hippogrif, that made way more sense than me thinkin it was something along Drakes Lt Leary - who doesn't want one cause he'd then be too concerned about what to shoot next and not thinking about the bigger picture as he should be.

And yeah, that whole not wanting to appear an obvious threat ties right in with something else which I think was mentioned earlier, doesn't his family have a lot of close parallels with that closeted bunch of lunatics and poisoners, the Borgnias? one of whom, if I ain't whistling in the wind and remember correctly, was ironically named Lucrezia ?

Forgive me this, my euro-history is terrible, but his family was most certainly (Royally Screwed Up) if this is the case, and all the nobility of the time was generally related in some way, or even more than one! (Squick!).

Unless I happen to be mistaken, this would place Tarvek as more (Defector from Decadence) would it not ?

Oh, and I did a mini archive binge and still can't find much of any foreshadowing for Pinkie being actively, personally dangerous as opposed to just evil and insane, but given how well our storytellers lay their groundwork it's ever far more likely I am just missing it than they cut corners - Tarvek does repeatedly try to impress on them how dangerous she is, apparently taking the role of mostly ignored advisor in the absence of Krosp, who, being a cat, could be prettymuch anywhere, doing anything that happens to amuse him.

Pretty sure we'll be seeing him again, despite being quite feline and something of a jerk, he's both quite clever and taken a shine to Agatha so I can't see him leaving her in the lurch without trying to do something useful within his capacity.

Oh, and regarding Violetta, she might not be able to go toe to toe with Pinky in a stand up brawl, but now that Higgs has decided to, uhh, intervene - all she really has to do is keep Pinky from escaping, and may well be able to do at least that.

Note of funny: local dept store was cycling an old spice commercial on the store radio and it kept reminding me of Higgs every time I heard it, but one would have to be old enough to get the joke to understand exactly why.

edited 22nd Oct '10 1:08:07 PM by Revestra

I agree with Hippogriff above. Tarvek is good at heart, but reaching adulthood in Castle Sturmvoraus necessarily implies becoming a devious, byzantine schemer.

It would not astonish me if, after all the trouble getting to the point where repairs to the Castle can begin, the actual repair is swift and simple. Of course, that's only the Central Control repair, there are lots of subsystems needing attention.

Higgs is beating Zola by 4:1 at a conservative estimate. She might have just scratched him with the sword, and each of Higgs' blows appear to be doing major damage. He can safely be left to it.

I hope and believe Violetta is busy rescuing Zeetha. Gil could spend several days getting out of the plant and still be all right. The Improved FSMADD team, which may or may not include Krosp, are all right where they are. In any case, Krosp will take care of himself.

Thanks. Like I said, that speculation for why Tarvek doesn't carry is just that: speculation. Not enough data for a firm call yet.

RE: Zola. To me the potential for absolute, effective violence is simply implied, much as Tarvek thinks it is. Here is the central player in a risky venture, in the most sensitive, danger intensive, and potentially catastrophic position. The entire 20+ year venture rests in Zola's white-gloved hands. Fortunes have been invested in this, lives spent preparing. Trained warriors, ninjas, and political players have dedicated all their thought and skill to this conspiracy. In their eyes, the fate of Europa hangs on the entire thing.

Do they send in a lamb, or a tigress? A trained, lethal operative, or a well conditioned dupe with no real muscle? Logic alone dictated that she had to be more than just a hapless waif snatched from the streets of Paris, or even a well-trained con artist. Just knowing she was the front woman of an ongoing conspiracy indicates that she's likely to be hella good, and hella dangerous.

Then she sacrificed her mooks. And then she shot Veil Woman. And then she threatened more mooks in front of Gil, with every intention of killing them if she felt the need. And then she kept putting herself in danger for the game of "oh, help, Gilly-sugah!"

And then she got away.

All of that put together adds up to "yeah, just as well trained as Tarvek says, in more than just strategy." Her killing and sacrificing people becomes part of a serious MO, and is likely to escalate, not hold steady, as she brings it out early and with the attitude that there's more where that comes from. She may know when she's at a disadvantage, and she may prefer manipulation of Gil in particular to outright violent conquest...but all those "accidental" brushes with Castle Heterodyne? She has to have known what they were, where they were, and had enough faith in her own ability to handle anything that came along AND pass it off as pure luck, to risk Gil failing to get there in time.

So even the pratfalls indicated she was extremely well trained in physical arts, and further was cold, manipulative, and has absolute confidence in her ability to both cope AND cover her tracks. Which implies she's something exceptional.

From the final, profound reveal of her escape, I have been expecting her to prove on a par with anything we've seen from Gil and Tarvek: she's trained not simply to be their peer, but as near as I can tell she has specifically been trained to be the superior of Klaus. After all, no one knew Gil was ever an issue till the very last minute: Klaus and all his resources are the enemy the Knights were preparing Zola to take on, almost single handed. She'd have to be the cold, skilled, guileful killing machine her original gun-toting sequences implied.

It's only Gil's evaluation of her from Paris, and her own airheaded scams to keep him thinking of her as a nice little fluffy-butt, that challenge the impression left by the well-funded imposter in the pink ship who used her mooks as Castle fodder and resolved personnel problems with a single shot and a well-placed threat. Add in the indications of subverted martial arts training being used not to "win" but to navigate Castle threats while keeping Gil in rescue mode, and there was every reason to believe she'd prove to be hell on wheels.

And, honestly, once she proved she could master Lu-download in the neural net, any sort of augmentation became an open possibility.

edited 22nd Oct '10 2:00:16 PM by Hippogrif

Mostly Harmless.

Why must she have? They were in an area of the castle that Lu would have known, but she didn't have Lu's memories yet then; we don't know if, how often, or for how long Serpentina visited the Castle to learn about them herself and be abe to tell her daughter; we have no data about whether Loremistress Milvistle knew the castle well; and one of the first things we hear about the castle is that it can rearrange itself, which means any old knowledge is unreliable.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Because a) she had studied the maps before even arriving, and b) she had updates from Tick, and c) because to "accidentally" get tangled in that series of Castle Traps without one of them doing her damage indicates knowledge and skill combined. The castle is deadly. Agatha deals with it with a death ray. Zola dealt with it with skill and knowledge, and we watched her, and a lot of folks got the funny but failed to follow through on the logic, which indicated much more.

With the Foglios it's really dangerous to ignore the follow-through. Yes, they do occasionally go for throw-away humor or "just funny." But far more often if they show you something, it later proves to be absolutely logical. In this case it proved that, if you treated the events as logical, then they implied that Zola was both informed and trained — and this has proven true.

Mostly Harmless.

They were in an area that had not up to then been mapped as far as any of the prisoners knew.

He knew where there were dead spots that der Kestle couldn't hear them. It doesn't necessarily follow that he knew where all the traps were.

Or that the Foglios were having some fun playing with deathtraps. Or that Gil was very good and very quick. Or both.

edited 22nd Oct '10 3:24:56 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Backstabbing isn't necessarily gratuitous, it's simply any time someone purposely foils endeavors they previously indicated they wished to succeed. Also, I wouldn't go so far as to say Tarvek betrayed The Other, what with executing the plan to install a duplicate of her as Anevka exactly as agreed, in spite of having everyone at his mercy.

Eric,

He didn't have everyone at his mercy...he was surrounded by Geisters who would kill him for their mistress, with Klaus's forces expected any minute, the town primed by Anevka, not him, Selnikov and the forces waiting to gather him up for use in THEIR version of Storm King, and Agatha still needing to be gotten out alive.

And the Anevka head is definitely not delivered as promised in at least one sense, and likely more: I am willing to swear Lu had no idea of the override in Anevkabot's body, which remains installed. I suspect that there are some backdoor programs in the head that Lu didn't catch, either. She's not a near-match for Van Rijn. She needed Tarvek to perform the design and work, and I very much doubt he believes in being burned twice by his own creations. For all we know there are some overrides in there that cut in even if Tarvek is absent, limiting the orders and actions available to Lunevka. Or not. But Lunevka isn't a gift to Lu and her designs: she's already a fireship just on the basis of the body program.

There's no proof one way or another that Tarvek didn't intend to get some use out of her. But not in ways Lu would have expected or desired.

Mostly Harmless.

The prisoners are out of the loop in multiple ways, and Zola has been drawing on wider resources all along, as shown from her first appearances. Assuming the prisoners knowledge base was the most extensive knowledge base is a bad assumption. They're the pawns, not the Queen or King.

He's yet another logical source of information, though, and knew the "safe" zones. By implication there's a good chance he also knew the traps...and would have passed info regarding them to the home office. That implication, put together with other details AND her super-coincidental stumbles into the deathtraps, indicates a logical likelihood of her having the info, and provides reason to think she would have access to such info.

Even Boffo is more than just throwaway, though. The Foglios use logical Boffo, not random Boffo. That leaves us with the question of her reliably landing death traps over and over, and never being damaged before she can get Gil there. Once into the deathtrap, yes: it may be an accident. Twice? Even in Castle Heterodyne? These accidents suffered by the woman who pointed out every death trap in the entry? Three times? No. And the Nyar Spider? The woman we saw blow away Veil Hat was stopped by a Nyar Spider?

Trying to pass that off as mere humor is like trying to declare that Agatha's own passage through death traps without noticing them, while blowing them away with her death ray without even needing to aim, says nothing about her character, or her knowledge, skills, and aim.

There's nothing wrong with not-seeing it, but that doesn't change the fact that the foreshadowing was there, and that it actually proved to be both logical and accurate. Look, the Foglios fool me regularly, but that doesn't mean they cheated. It just means I missed the clues, or accepted the red herrings that went with them. They're sneaky and they make very good use of their humor. But they also play very logically and their characters make sense in the context of GG. Zola does, too. r

Mostly Harmless.

Hmm. I'd doubt I'd rank Tarvek lower than True Neutral, morality wise (although I know using that system where moralities outside of Dn D is not exactly correct, but I think it can be used to certain approximations). So far I don't believe he's done anything with any malice and most of his actions appeared to have been ordered as to save the largest amount of of people close to him as possible (to me). He didn't expect Anevka to kill their/his father, which really made him have to come up with what I expect were rather hurried plans. He had to go along with Lu because to do otherwise would have ended up in his death, and most likely that of Agatha's (or Lu taking over, depending on how things with the Baron went). As Hippogriff mentioned, he did not betray Anevka until after she had shown herself willing to kill him. He did do a few things that need to be answered for, and hopefully they will be in due time. Personally, I am still waiting for Gil to give a better explanation of why he tried to force Agatha to marry him, or at least apologize. It is my biggest peeve against his character (other than that I really do like Gil, and I ship him and Agatha, despite what the above may seem; people just don't say things about him, whereas they do Tarvek, so I can't help but defend the latter).

On the subject of foreshading for Zola, I had never considered her lack of bodily harm a clue, but I can very easily see how it could have been one that I missed. I will also admit that I expected the current battle to go much better than it has (I rather expected her to be Curb-stomped as a matter of fact). But that just means Zola is very, very good.

edited 22nd Oct '10 6:05:59 PM by Questa

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg></a></p>

Oh. (Facepalm)

Or in the immortal words of Homer Simpson - DOH!

Questa - cause Tarvek is a strapping young man, Agatha is rather adorable, admitted to liking him, AND a Spark who can understand him more than even his own family, prettymuch the same reasons Gil likes her, and Tarvek is not quite the moral paragon Gil is, even if he is technically one of the good guys.

His dumping of the family is more to them being (Stupid Evil) than not being onboard with the plan, but that's just my opinion, sure seems that way though.

Whew! Lots of good stuff here since I last peeked in. Hippogrif, you've been magnificently busy. I'd like to float one old idea and two new(er) points.

Revestra, you linked Lucrezia (wealthy) with Borgia which is, incidentally, a Spanish name. But I'd like to remind us of the similarity of Borgia and The Borg. With Lu's Mind War and Slaver Wasps, the notion of Lucrezia as The Borg or Lucrezia having been Borg'd seems fitting. Whether it was in the Foglio minds is something to ask them about someday.

Hippogrif wrote

I wonder if she isn't closer to the Trojan Horse in spirit. But in terms of danger, yes, I think a fireship.

I suspect that few of us understand the raw danger that a fireship posed in the Age of Sail. Typically it was the British who used this expensive but devastating tactic, and since they were usually fighting at a numerical disadvantage, it speaks volumes about the confidence and audacity of the Royal Navy's commanders.

Very simply, a fireship was one of your own gunships sacrificed, set ablaze, and left with enough sail aloft to float into the enemy's position and threaten their entire fleet. Fire was a greater hazard even than enemy gunships; a wooden warship was fantastically hard to actually sink. More often they were grounded or taken as prizes, or scuttled by their own crews. But fire could burn a ship to the waterline in a very short time, and the crew could not fight fire and an enemy at the same time. The fireship was most effective if you could set it among the enemy's ships at anchorage or in a confined strait.

Finally, and this is especially offered to Hippogrif, what about an Oedipal interpretation of Tarvek's motives? Tarvek views Klaus as his model rather than Aaronev and Klaus rejected him. Tarvek, like Klaus, wants peace in Europa. Tarvek has the legend of the Storm King and now the possibility of a union with the Heterodyne Princess. He can, he thinks, supplant Klaus with the power of legitimacy, a force that can be very, very great. (I refer you to Philip Bobbitt's The Shield of Achilles if you want a very long, very detailed read, with the caveat that you should read the introduction repeatedly, until you can say "That should be obvious.")

Klaus has taken his bride (Europa) by force. Tarvek believes that she is destined, or has a better and more fruitful future, with himself. We don't know what his plan may have been, or how he intended to make Klaus irrelevant (impotent?) but it's at least as good a motive as we've seen and is supported by at least some of what Tarvek has said.

edited 22nd Oct '10 8:52:10 PM by GreybeardFan