Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / OldWorldofDarkness

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


** Most notably seen with ''World of Darkness: Gypsies''. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to roleplay offensive stereotypes - something White Wolf somehow apparently never realized up until it was actually in print. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.

to:

** Most notably seen with ''World of Darkness: Gypsies''. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] them... Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to roleplay offensive stereotypes - something White Wolf somehow apparently never realized up until it was actually in print. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FirstInstallmentWins: The first three gamelines, Vampire, Werewolf and Mage, definitely got more attention than the later ones. Notably when the gamelines were ended each of those three games got their own end-of-the-world books (''Gehenna'', ''Apocalypse'' and ''Ascension'') whereas the the other gamelines got a single book, ''Time of Judgement'', that wrapped up them all in a book about the same length.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Requires Word Of God confirmation


* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** Malkavians originally had Dominate, not Dementation, in the first edition, highlighting that the Camarilla Malkavians controlled minds while Sabbat's ''antitribu'' Malkavians broke them. Despite this, Dementation was popular among the players, leading to a table rule that players could choose either. In Revised edition, Dementation replaced Domination outright for the Camarilla Malkavians, enshrining the house rule and explaining it as the ''antitribu'' Malks pulling a massive prank that reawakened the true insanity of the clan.
** White Wolf eventually got wise to how insensitive their treatment of Romani in the form of the Ravnos Clan had been, and eventually [[KilledOffForReal wrote the Ravnos out]] of the MetaPlot.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheEternalStruggle'' gets in on it by having an ally card called Gypsies that receives +1 Stealth on all of its actions, going along with the "sneaky criminals" characterization.
* ValuesResonance: The first edition of Clanbook: Nosferatu contains a pre-made character who is openly LGBT and explicitly given a backstory as a campus gay rights activist who was nearly murdered by a group of homophobic frat boys, only for a Nosferatu to show him mercy as he was bleeding to death and give him the Embrace. The book was published in ''1993''.

to:

** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheEternalStruggle'' gets in on it by having an ally card called Gypsies that receives +1 Stealth on all of its actions, going along with the "sneaky criminals" characterization.
* ValuesResonance: The first edition of Clanbook: Nosferatu contains a pre-made character who is openly LGBT and explicitly given a backstory as a campus gay rights activist who was nearly murdered by a group of homophobic frat boys, only for a Nosferatu to show him mercy as he was bleeding to death and give him the Embrace. The book was published in ''1993''.
characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheEternalStruggle'' gets in on it by having an ally card called Gypsies that receives +1 Stealth on all of its actions, going along with the "sneaky criminals" characterization.

to:

** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheEternalStruggle'' gets in on it by having an ally card called Gypsies that receives +1 Stealth on all of its actions, going along with the "sneaky criminals" characterization.characterization.
* ValuesResonance: The first edition of Clanbook: Nosferatu contains a pre-made character who is openly LGBT and explicitly given a backstory as a campus gay rights activist who was nearly murdered by a group of homophobic frat boys, only for a Nosferatu to show him mercy as he was bleeding to death and give him the Embrace. The book was published in ''1993''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: ''[[https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Charnel_Houses_of_Europe:_The_Shoah Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah]]'' is a tabletop game supplement (for Wraith) ''about the Holocaust''. Unlike the far more ill-conceived ''[[https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/World_of_Darkness:_Gypsies World of Darkness: Gypsies]]'', ''Charnel Houses of Europe'' is by all accounts a well-written, well-researched book that treats its subject-matter with the seriousness and respect it deserves... but since that subject matter is ''the Holocaust'', it is nonetheless not a book very many people use in play, even if they own it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Malkavians originally had Dominate, not Dementation, in the first edition, highlighting that the Camarilla Malkavians controlled minds while Sabbat's antitribu Malkavians broke them. Despite this, Dementation was popular among the players, leading to a table rule that players could choose either. In Revised edition, Dementation replaced Domination outright for the Camarilla Malkavians, enshrining the house rule and explaining it as the antitribu Malks pulling a massive prank that reawakened the true insanity of the clan.

to:

** Malkavians originally had Dominate, not Dementation, in the first edition, highlighting that the Camarilla Malkavians controlled minds while Sabbat's antitribu ''antitribu'' Malkavians broke them. Despite this, Dementation was popular among the players, leading to a table rule that players could choose either. In Revised edition, Dementation replaced Domination outright for the Camarilla Malkavians, enshrining the house rule and explaining it as the antitribu ''antitribu'' Malks pulling a massive prank that reawakened the true insanity of the clan.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ValuesDissonance: Early depictions of [[EthnicScrappy Romani as thieves and vagabonds]].

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Early depictions of [[EthnicScrappy [[RoguishRomani Romani as thieves and vagabonds]].

Added: 380

Changed: 88

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OldShame: The world's characterization of Romani, which got wiped out by AuthorsSavingThrow and relegated to OldShame.

to:

* OldShame: The world's characterization of Romani, which got wiped out by various ethnic groups. Examples include:
** The Romani in both their portrayal as a people and the heavily sterotyped Ravnos clan. see below for details and
AuthorsSavingThrow for details.
** One of the developers of TabletopGame/MageTheAscension said in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OA7yThs538 this interview]] that they regret the early heavily stereotyped portrayals of The Akashic Brotherhood
and relegated to OldShame.Dreamspeakers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** White Wolf eventually got wise to how insensitive their treatment of Romani in the form of the Ravnos Clan and eventually [[KilledOffForReal wrote them]] out of the MetaPlot. The Ravnos that is, not the Romani.

to:

** White Wolf eventually got wise to how insensitive their treatment of Romani in the form of the Ravnos Clan had been, and eventually [[KilledOffForReal wrote them]] out the Ravnos out]] of the MetaPlot. The Ravnos that is, not the Romani.MetaPlot.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Most notably seen ''World of Darkness: Gypsies''. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.

to:

** Most notably seen with ''World of Darkness: Gypsies''. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play roleplay offensive stereotypes.stereotypes - something White Wolf somehow apparently never realized up until it was actually in print. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Internet Backdraft is now Flame Bait and being dewicked per TRS.


** The MetaPlot. Even now almost ten years after the fact the fanbase is STILL split as to whether or not it made the setting as a whole more interesting, or [[{{Railroading}} unnecessarily shoehorned players and storytellers to utilize rules updates that reflect the changes to the setting]] just to buy more books or worse, [[DroppedABridgeOnHim out right destroyed many interesting player options and NPCs]] [[StuffedInTheFridge just to create drama and angst.]] This has led to [[InternetBackdraft full on edition wars]] because of it.

to:

** The MetaPlot. Even now almost ten years after the fact the fanbase is STILL split as to whether or not it made the setting as a whole more interesting, or [[{{Railroading}} unnecessarily shoehorned players and storytellers to utilize rules updates that reflect the changes to the setting]] just to buy more books or worse, [[DroppedABridgeOnHim out right destroyed many interesting player options and NPCs]] [[StuffedInTheFridge just to create drama and angst.]] This has led to [[InternetBackdraft full on edition wars]] wars because of it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
"Gypsy" is a slur. and the entry made it sound like White Wolf killed them all off. Seeing as how they are in fact a real ethnic group, who were also victims of ethnic cleanses, this was a poor choice of words.


** White Wolf eventually got wise to how insensitive their treatment of Gyspies had been and virtually wiped them out of the MetaPlot.

to:

** White Wolf eventually got wise to how insensitive their treatment of Gyspies had been Romani in the form of the Ravnos Clan and virtually wiped them eventually [[KilledOffForReal wrote them]] out of the MetaPlot.MetaPlot. The Ravnos that is, not the Romani.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OldShame: The world's characterization of Romani, which got wiped out by AuthorSavingThrow and relegated to OldShame.

to:

* OldShame: The world's characterization of Romani, which got wiped out by AuthorSavingThrow AuthorsSavingThrow and relegated to OldShame.

Added: 1708

Changed: 1303

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Malkavians originally had Dominate, not Dementation, in the first edition, highlighting that the Camarilla Malkavians controlled minds while Sabbat's antitribu Malkavians broke them. Despite this, Dementation was popular among the players, leading to a table rule that players could choose either. In Revised edition, Dementation replaced Domination outright for the Camarilla Malkavians, enshrining the house rule and explaining it as the antitribu Malks pulling a massive prank that reawakened the true insanity of the clan.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: AuthorsSavingThrow:
**
Malkavians originally had Dominate, not Dementation, in the first edition, highlighting that the Camarilla Malkavians controlled minds while Sabbat's antitribu Malkavians broke them. Despite this, Dementation was popular among the players, leading to a table rule that players could choose either. In Revised edition, Dementation replaced Domination outright for the Camarilla Malkavians, enshrining the house rule and explaining it as the antitribu Malks pulling a massive prank that reawakened the true insanity of the clan.clan.
** White Wolf eventually got wise to how insensitive their treatment of Gyspies had been and virtually wiped them out of the MetaPlot.



* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[EthnicScrappy World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.

to:

* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form The world's characterization of Romani, which got wiped out by AuthorSavingThrow and relegated to OldShame.
* ValuesDissonance: Early depictions
of [[EthnicScrappy World Romani as thieves and vagabonds]].
** Most notably seen ''World
of Darkness: Gypsies]].Gypsies''. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.rap.
** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheEternalStruggle'' gets in on it by having an ally card called Gypsies that receives +1 Stealth on all of its actions, going along with the "sneaky criminals" characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[EthnicScrappy World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.

to:

* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[EthnicScrappy World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans caravans, wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those who wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Crossovers between the games are this as well. White Wolf was notorious for providing ways that games could crossover while being extremely unhelpful when it came to to actually place their ruels or cosmologies together in a single cross over game. This has led to a sizeable number of fans who outright refuse to use the splats as written in one game interact with another as written in its own corebook. Such as The Garou from ''TableTopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'' interacting with Awakened Magi from ''TableTopGame/MageTheAscension''. While others very much enjoy being able to play a Dreamspeaker mage fighting alongside (or against) a Silver Fang.

to:

** Crossovers between the games are this as well. White Wolf was notorious for providing ways that games could crossover while being extremely unhelpful when it came to to actually place their ruels rules or cosmologies together in a single cross over game. This has led to a sizeable number of fans who outright refuse to use the splats as written in one game interact with another as written in its own corebook. Such as The Garou from ''TableTopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'' interacting with Awakened Magi from ''TableTopGame/MageTheAscension''. While others very much enjoy being able to play a Dreamspeaker mage fighting alongside (or against) a Silver Fang.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Bane Mummies aren't from Werewolf, Banes are.


*** More specific examples from [=oWoD=]: the Nosferatu, the Nicktuku (NightmareFuel ''even to the Nosferatu''), Followers of Set, the Giovanni, the Tzimisce and (to some extent) the Malkavians in ''Vampire'', the Bane Mummies in ''Werewolf'' and the Earthbound (and pretty much ''any'' high-Torment fallen) in ''Demon''.

to:

*** More specific examples from [=oWoD=]: the Nosferatu, the Nicktuku (NightmareFuel ''even to the Nosferatu''), Followers of Set, the Giovanni, the Tzimisce and (to some extent) the Malkavians in ''Vampire'', the Bane Mummies Banes, Fomori and Blackspiral Dancers in ''Werewolf'' and the Earthbound (and pretty much ''any'' high-Torment fallen) in ''Demon''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[EthnicScrappy World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes.

to:

* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[EthnicScrappy World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans wear scarfs and bright colors, [[UnfortunateImplications provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes. It's been described as like releasing a supplement in which African-Americans get magic powers from eating fried chicken and listening exclusively to gangster rap.

Top