History Headscratchers / Twilight

Welcome to the ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' [[Headscratchers/HomePage Headscratcher]]. This is the page where you can ask about {{Plot Hole}}s and have someone who knows the series answer them. And, then, if their explanation doesn't make sense, you can come right back.\\
If you want to discuss Twilight, you can always Administrivia/TakeItToTheForums. And, if you want to complain about Twilight, there are plenty of sites out there just for that purpose.

Be sure to check out Creator/StephenieMeyer's [[http://www.twilightlexicon.com/2007/02/09/the-q-a-from-the-february-2007-byu-symposium/ 2007 Q and A]] for answers to common questions.

That out of the way, let's start the show:


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[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Alice's Powers]]

* How is Alice able to have a vision of the big, climactic battle against the Volturi to share with Aro, if the presence of werewolves and halfbreeds blocks her visions? There were werewolves and halfbreeds involved in the battle.
** Maybe they just went, "screw the rules, Meyer did."
** To be fair, the book doesn't have that. That's just the film - and I think it's wrong for other reasons as well.

* Whenever a werewolf or half-breed like Renesmee get involved in a situation, it blocks Alice's vision because of reasons. Fine, I'll accept it. But how come Alice was able to have a vision that the Volturi would arrive to confront the Cullens at the end of ''Breaking Dawn''? There are werewolves on the field, and Renesmee is in the middle of the field.
** Up to the point of Aro's arrival, the shapeshifters and Renesmee were irrelevant to the sequence of events. She would, however, be unable to see the outcome.

* She could only see the Volturi coming, not what and where the battle was. She didn't see them arrive, just them on their way. Also, Alice did see Irina telling them - she said she was almost there and too close to stop her. This didn't involve Renesmee directly enough for her not to see it.

* Why was Alice unable to see that Irina had decided to go tell the Volturi about Renesmee? She saw the Volturi make the decision to come confront the Cullens, but not Irina's decision to tell them in the first place?
** She was either not focusing on Irina or blocked by the indirect involvement of Renesmee.
** She did see it, because they questioned on whether they could stop her, but they saw it too late.

* Alice being able to predict the stock market. Let's analyze how her ability works here: The canon explanation for her power is that she can keep an eye on the decisions people make and have visions depicting how those decisions will turn out. Now, economics isn't my area of expertise, but I'm pretty sure the stock market isn't affected by the decisions of one or two people. It's affected by the decisions of all the consumers of the product and/or service in question. This means that for some of your larger companies, she would probably have to be tuned into the decisions of thousands or even tens of thousands of people at once. Even if we accept the rather dubious idea that she can focus in on people she's never seen or met before, how does she not collapse from the mental exertion?
** Ok, I have only read the books, but I guessed that she was under a lot of strain predicting the stock markets, but used this strain to train herself/stretch her ability further? I mean, after the massive concentration required to monitor that many people's plans, it must be relatively easy to follow one or two minds. That or Stephanie Meyer does not know how the stock market works.
** The latter. Meyer has absolutely no clue as to how real stock markets work, and the driving forces behind them. Roughly 90% of all trades are now automated - people write a bunch of algorithms for machines to execute when certain circumstances happen. The interaction of these automated trades is ''extraordinarily'' difficult to predict. Not to mention the fact that a single stock on the S&P500 will typically have ''daily trades in the millions of transactions''. The reality is that there are virtually no "decisions" for Alice to be able to read minds about and discover. Stock markets are almost exclusively about interactions between slightly different mathematical models. Which no being, not even a GodModeSue, could possibly understand sufficiently to have even a snowball's chance in Hell of predicting.
*** She watches investor choices and how they will end. Picking up what Bill Gates invest and see if he is richer or poorer shouldn't be that hard for her.
*** Hell, she could just look at Carlilse's future and see how his decision to invest $1000 in Apple stock will work out for him.
** Alice is able to see "impersonal" forces like weather. Perhaps the stock market is impersonal? Like the troper above said, people are actually surprisingly removed from the stock market.

* Is Alice's power decision based or not? She had a vision of herself living happily with Jasper, before a time when she had decided to go meet him and before he decided to go into that diner to take shelter from the rain. But she only made the decision to go wait for him in that diner because she got a vision of herself meeting him there...she only made the decision to go meet him because she had a vision of herself doing it, she shouldn't have had the vision before deciding to go to the diner...ARRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
** Alice's power works based on what someone decides to do. Since Alice seems to be basically a slave to her powers, she'd obviously do whatever it is she'd see. So, clearly, when she decided to go into the diner, it was because her powers showed her making the [[Film/AustinPowers decohnoI'vegonecross-eyed]]. Less amusingly, Alice would have gone into that diner for other reasons, non-future vision-related reasons, and would have met up with Jasper anyway.

* What the hell would really happen if Edward and Alice played rock-paper-scissors? There's a funny bit in ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' where Alice suggests it:
-->'''Edward:''' Why don't you just tell me who wins?
-->'''Alice:''' I do. Excellent.
::But Alice only sees decisions, so most people could probably go 50-50 with her just by not deciding their throw until the last instant. Anticipating that, Alice will probably have to play randomly too -- but unlike Alice, Edward can read ''thoughts'' rather than just actions, so he can tell which throw is floating around in her mind the most. That's her most likely "random" choice and he can counter it -- except as soon as he decides to do so, she'll know! Anyone else's head hurting?
** Alice can lie in her thoughts. Remember in ''Eclipse'' where she and Edward play chess?

* Midnight Sun just makes the whole situation with Alice's powers more confusing. Early in the book, Alice states that Bella has about a 50/50 chance of either dying or becoming a vampire. With each decision Edward makes, she becomes slightly more likely to survive. But it's stated explicitly that the vision only becomes clearer once he really, definitively decides what to do, and she can't tell him "Do this", she can only call him and say "Whatever you just decided, it's a good decision." So it clearly seems to indicate that the decision she's watching has to be a REAL decision, not just a fake-out so she can see the future. Fast-forward to the end of the book and Alice and Edward are in the middle of a high-speed car chase to the ballet studio. Edward is driving in a way that would be GUARANTEED to cause an accident without his and Alice's powers - going well above 100 mph, even on fairly suburban streets. They avoid speed traps and accidents by working together, Alice seeing the future and Edward reading her mind. Ok, so when you're driving at that speed, you pretty much have to execute a decision as soon as you make it, even more so given how fast Edward's reflexes are. So Edward should only be making real, firm decisions as he's literally doing them and there shouldn't be anything for Alice to predict. Or to put it another way, say he's approaching a slower car at 120 mph in the center lane and wants to decide whether to pass on the left or the right. He decides left, triggering a vision that he can read of he and Alice being inconvenienced by the firey car wreck that will happen when a car further ahead cuts them off. By the time Alice could see that happening, the window of opportunity to move over should have already passed, which Edward would have known about when he "decided" and thus his decision wasn't final and the vision shouldn't have happened.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Bella: A Special Snowflake]]
* Why does the text treat Bella's shielding powers as the trump card that lets them win against the Volturi? On the side of the Cullens in that confrontation are Zafrina, a RealityWarper master of illusions that could blind and incapacitate every member of the Voluturi, and Benjamin, who is the [[Franchise/AvatarTheLastAirbender Goddamned Avatar]], and casually thought about weaponizing ''fault lines!''
** Because Bella's shield basically turns Jane and Alec's powers, the Volturi's trump cards, useless. Without Bella's shield, Alec would've send his turn-blind-and-deaf fog and ta da, everyone on the side of Cullens is dead long before Benjamin can throw a rock on the Volturi. Even Zafrina's powers wouldn't mean much since it seems powers in this setting need concentration to be activated, and once Jane (mentally) attacked her, it's likely that Zafrina wouldn't even be able to create illusions because of the intense pain she'd be under.
** The shield is described as being like one-way glass - the people under the shield can use their powers, but other powers can't touch them. Bella has literally made the Voluri's supernaturally-powered guard unable to use their powers.
*** Alec's sensory-deprivation power deploys as a visible mist travelling towards its victim. Meaning that it's avoidable, whereas Zafrina's are not. And Jane can only pain one person at a time, whereas there is no upper limit to the number of people Benjamin can drop into a chasm and cover in a landslide. The only way Alec trumps Zafrina is if Zafrina stupidly stands there and lets the mist get her instead of taking the entire Volturi contingent out instantly the moment he deploys the mist. And if Jane pains Zafrina, then she can't stop Benjamin from burying them all in lava.

* Why does every one in the story, even the members of the wolf pack who don't know Bella that well, seem to be willing to risk their own lives and let countless others suffer just to spare Bella? It seemed like any time anyone even dared imply that Bella's life may not be worth more than literally everyone else's they were instantly reprimanded for it and portrayed as a bad person for the rest of the story, but no explanation was ever given.
** Three words: BlackHoleSue.
** The alpha's obsession with her was enough for that, which turned out to be Jacob. He could simply MindRape the entire pack into obeying him.
*** That doesn't explain why Sam's pack is in it for Breaking Dawn. Maybe it's something to do with all the non-vegetarian vampires in the area leaving once the thing for Renesmee is cleared up?

* Is it ever explained why Bella is immune to some vampire powers and why she is not immune to Alice's or Jasper's powers?
** Nope, not conclusively any way. I may be wrong, but I don't remember the explanation ever going beyond her just being "special" in some unspecified (plot convenient)way. I think there was something about her being a psi vampire (unless that was just the {{Fanon}} explanation) but that wouldn't explain why she's immune to some powers but not to others and also doesn't hold up in general since she doesn't display any other symptoms of being a psi vampire.
** I'm pretty sure it's explained in the Official Guide. She is immune to powers that have to do with her mind (thoughts), like Edward's (reading her mind), as well as Jane, Alec, and Zefrina (who all play mind games on you). Alice and Jasper both deal more with the physical (the future, or messing with one's endorphine system or whatever to make you experience a certain emotion).
*** Even then it's not entirely consistent. Bella is able to see one vampire's power expressed as a flowing mist (physical) but she can block it with her shield, indicating that it's just mind-mist, in which case it should have been completely invisible to her since it never reached her mind.
** So, why is she immune?
*** Apparently, it's genetic. Edward has trouble reading Charlie's mind as well (but no trouble reading Renesmee's). Also, Renesmee gets a sort of combo of the talents of her parents, so that supports this theory as well.
*** When was Edward ever shown to have trouble reading Charlie's thoughts? As I recall, he always read Charlie's mind pretty easily.
*** He mentioned it to Bella, either in Twilight or Eclipse. Something like, "I thought your Dad was stupid, but apparently I can only read some of his thoughts".
*** I think it was Renee's mind Edward had trouble reading.
*** Then you would be wrong. ''Midnight Sun'' says it was Charlie. Meyer just retconned it later, probably because she just forgot.
** I don't know what series the above troper was reading, but it sure isn't the Stephenie Meyer one. Psi vampires? Really? It was explicitly stated more than once in the series that all vampires have unique abilities. Get that? UNIQUE. So, forget the whole "symptoms of a psi vampire" thing. Bella's unique ability gives her immunity to some vampire abilities, and to protect others from these same vampire abilities, but, as all abilities are unique, Bella will not completely protect against ALL of them, case in point, Alice and Jasper.
*** So you say that Bella's "unique vampire power" protected her... even when she wasn't a vampire yet in the first three books. [[SarcasmMode Sure, makes perfect sense...]]
*** Yup. That's pretty much exactly how the book means it. People have "unique vampire powers" before becoming vampires, it just doesn't show until they are turned, except for special cases like Bella.
*** If anyone's read Luminosity, an AU fic with an alternate Bella who operates off of the principles of logic and actually asks the obvious questions, Bella does a little bit of digging and ends up finding other people like her - humans who display powers. Vampires, of course, think of them as potential vampires, and seek them out to turn, but they go by witches in their own right. If you think about it as Bella having some sort of latent magical power independent of ready-made vampirism, I think it makes a bit more sense.
*** Doesn't Alice's ability manifest itself before she's turned as well? Isn't that why she's in the that mental ward in the first place?
*** Is stated in universe that everyone had their powers in a weaker form as humans and the venom only enhance what is there. Aro chose Jane and Alec for their abilities and wait for them to grow a bit older before transforming them. Sadly their powers were strong enough to be burned as witches so Aro arrived just in time to save their lives. Its actually explained in the books. Bella is just the first one of a long line of gifted humans turned vampires.

* What happened to Bella's superhuman ability to smell blood? It's given an entire chapter of focus in the first book, comes up once in the third, but then just disappears. Not even the haters mention it.
** My guess, Meyer needed padding to make the book longer so she picked one little thing to describe in excruciating detail just so there would be another chapter.
** Much like Bella's clumsiness, it only appears when it's useful for plot convenience.
** Perhaps Meyer realized that being able to smell blood actually isn't superhuman after all. Blood(when outside the body) does have a certain odor, after all as any medical professional/rescue worker/woman who has had a period could tell you.
*** Bella even describes it correctly, saying it's like a cross between rust and salt.


* WHY IS BELLA NEVER PLEASED? She moves to a town where everyone loves her despite her not lifting a finger to make friends, her father gives her a car as soon as she gets there and does little to no effort to control her, letting her be completely independent and doing whatever she wants. Every single boy in town is so IN LUV with her. I get that she is a MarySue, but why is she so whiny and unhappy? Why can't she live without her boyfriend? She can't stop complaining about her friends not being OMG-So-Perfect, about Jessica talking so much, about Lauren for just existing! And about her father being lame!
** She moved to Forks out of being emotionally abandoned by her mother over her new hubby. How long is she allowed to take to get over that? She was in a bad moment of her life when we meet her. Give her some credit she at least wasn't doing drugs or cutting herself to ease the pain just whining in her head to no one in particular but us.
** It's either because she's so full of herself that she thinks she deserves a perfect life and wont be happy until she gets it, because she's pretentious and thinks that never being happy makes her deep and complex, or because Meyer was aiming to make her interesting by making her "tortured" but, having forgotten what tortured means and not wanting to waste time looking it up in the dictionary, missed and hit "whiny and pretentious" instead.
** To be fair, she has reason to dislike Lauren. Lauren is a jealous bitch who wants to make her miserable. Jessica is using her as a way to get attention, but at least she's friendly instead of sulking because everyone's paying attention. At the start of Midnight Sun, Edward reads Lauren mind-complainting about all the attention Bella is getting, and she's openly rude and condescending towards Bella for the rest of high school.

* Bella seems to have no problems making friends without putting in any effort whatsoever--okay, fine. But...where are all her friends from Phoenix? Didn't she grow up there? Spend her childhood there--for many years, long enough to make tons of friends. And yet, she never gets an email, a phone call, a visit. In fact, the only pre-Forks relationships she seems to have maintained are her mom and step-dad. Just wondering.
** Bella is obviously an introvert. In Forks where everyone is friendly is easy to hang out (its not like there are many things to do) but in Phoenix she was probably lost in a sea of social girls and probably didn't know how to relate to them. I mean if she had to do all the chores in the house, pay the bills, do the shopping... she probably didn't have a lot to talk about with normal teenagers with real parents, either.
** Besides that, Bella is the new girl. Forks is a tiny town where everyone knows everyone else. The new kid from Phoenix is exotic and exciting in their view.
** It's quite common for heroines in classics to be isolated. In fact, many of them hardly seem to have a close friend prior to the events of the novel. Probably it's to get rid of too many irrelevant characters because an intelligent audience doesn't want to read about any ordinary friendship and all the banal dialogue most of us undergone.
** The thought that Twilight is conforming to one trait in classics is creeping me out ...

* I don't normally care that much about shipping or canon relationships, but... Was there any legitimate reason that Bella went with Edward instead of Jacob? Edward left her for a long time and was a bit cold about it, Jacob was nice to her, in fact, nicer than Edward ever was. But she didn't seem to have a hard time choosing to go back to Edward when he returned. Was that ever explained?
** She never got over Edward. Niceness =/= love.
** According to Meyer, it was the vampire mate bond that tied them together. That was why she couldn't be reasonable about Edward and the pain he caused her. Besides, if you read New Moon, the only reason she was with Jacob to begin with was that he filled the Edward-shaped hole in her heart.
** It's suggested throughout the story that the source of all Bella's unhappiness is the fact that she feels she's special (that she was meant to be one of TheBeautifulElite) but is being forced to live as a normal person; she does a lot of talking about how she's never felt like she belongs and how ''different'' she is. If she had gone with Jacob all she would have gotten out of it was getting to be with Jacob (she herself would have remained normal and would have had to live an unremarkable life) but choosing Edward allowed her to be beautiful, powerful, wealthy and glamorous for the rest of eternity. The author tries to spin it as the whole ''true love'' gambit, but anyone who was paying attention could see that Bella had ulterior motives.
** You can't choose your feelings. You should leave an abuser however obsessed you are with him, indeed, but being together with someone you don't feel anything more than friendship for, just because he is a practical choice, would only make you a calculating user. Not to mention Jacob eventually became just as an aggressive jerk as Edward was.

* WHY would Bella pick Edward over Jacob? For God's sake, I don't even ''like'' Twilight and I think that he was a nice enough guy, pre-{{Flanderization}}, anyway.
** Bella is a reader Edward is a reader and they spent their time discussing their books plots. She also plays chess and likes music. Jacob doesn't crack a book open in the whole series, doesn't play chess and doesn't have any musical activity. When they are together they only think they can do is walk, watch TV, hear the Quillete legends and ride the bikes and Bella doesn't like the bikes she just used them to hear Edward. No to mention all the wolves girls spent their days at the reservation cooking for the wolves, doing crafts and cleaning the house while the Cullen girls all travel, go to college and can fight alongside their mates in time of distress. Really people underdog =/= best choice all the time.
** People usually don't choose whom to fall in love with ...
** Did you not also notice that Bella tended to freak out every time Jacob ignored her or showed signs of moving on and forgetting about her? She may have said that she wanted him to move on and find someone else, but her actions made it clear that she wanted to marry the rich, powerful, white guy but have the poor brown guy keep worshiping her and pining away for her.
*** Why are you bringing race into this? Why is it relevant?
** Because Bella wants to be pretty, young, and powerful forever. Edward can give her that. Jacob can't.
*** Apparently. She's the AuthorAvatar, everything that the author herself both is and wants to be. That only makes it creepier when you realize that everything Bella does is seen as acceptable and that everything she thinks is what Meyer herself believes.
** Also cause Jacob TookALevelInJerkass in the third book.

* Why is Bella convinced that Jacob is some weak little thing that can't protect himself? First in New Moon Bella assumed the wolves had been killed by Laurent (it could be said that she didn't know them yet). But then she becomes even worse by continuously telling Jacob to stay out of the fight because he'll die or that he doesn't stand a chance. He is a flipping WEREWOLF he can take care of himself.
** Because Bella sees the vampires as the only truly competent beings.
** True, but to be fair she probably sees a fight between a vampire and a werewolf like the fight at the end of ''Film/DarkShadows'': The werewolf had super strength and toughness but had never fought before and was promptly KO'd by a being with more super powers and centuries of experience. From Bella's POV no amount of practice could prepare Jacob and his pack (which by the time of the battle included ''children'' who, unlike the Volturi twins, didn't have centuries to hone their talents) to fight vampires who could easily rip their limbs off without using their bonus super-powers -- and that's before she learned ''they're not even real werewolves'', just shape-shifters who happen to turn into wolves (I think I read that "real" werewolves, being the only creatures who could fight vampires, were apparently hunted to extinction (or nearly so, or learned how to hide really well)).


* The book has a lot of issues, but for now, I'll just bring up one of the biggest... Bella. Just, Bella. Well, why everyone loves her. I have a hard time buying the whole "Her blood smells good" thing because Edward has been a vampire for over a hundred years. He's been to many places and has probably been around hundreds of thousands of girls. I just have a hard time believing that Bella is so super duper special. Trying to go into this could've made some good plot, but it's never really explored. (in canon, anyway. I've actually read a few decent fanfics that try to explain what REALLY goes on in Edward's mind and why he REALLY wants her, what he's really thinking and whatnot) I'm just saying...
*** Because if she was not she wouldn't be the leading lady of this story?
** Because Bella is Meyer's [[AuthorAvatar self-insert]], so Meyer gives her everything she herself would want. As such, Bella is a MarySue.


* Is it ever explained ''why'' Bella is Vampire Catnip with built-in psychic shielding?
** Nope, it's never explained in canon. It's mostly a plot contrivance to keep us from ever wondering why on earth a girl like Bella (intended to be very, very average so as to relate to every reader) would be surrounded by so much ridiculous supernatural nonsense. By being, in the magic of the universe, a very very special snowflake, Bella is supposed to attract this vampire-and-werewolf stuff like a magnet. Also, it serves as an excuse to have a practically omniscient male lead while preserving the "drama" of will-they-or-won't-they, and to move the plot along whenever Smeyer needs it moved along (which is pretty much every time.) She's the ultimate [[McGuffin McGuffin]].
** It's part of the MarySue package (but she is a better example than any other, if you ask me): On the one hand, she attracts the hottest guy ever; OTOH, he can't hurt her even if he wanted. Have her cake and eat it too. And because she's plain average, she also hasn't to deal with other girls becoming bitchy at her. No wonder many women like the idea.
*** Somehow though she gets it from her father too, who has a lesser verion (Edward can only sense his emotions).
*** Except for the little detail that Edward is supposed to be able to read minds, not emotions,
*** Emotions come hand in hand with thoughts. And it's written [[WordOfGod in the Midnight Sun draft]] that Edward can only read Charlie's emotions, having no clue what his actual thoughts are.
*** There's still a set difference between what's going on with a person emotionally and mentally. Otherwise, Jasper would be able to read thoughts and Edward would be able to read the emotions of people other than Charlie.
*** Actually Alice had a good smell too that lured James. Is likely there are a lot more humans with this scent born out of chance but very few survive like Alice and Bella did.

* One thing that occurred to me recently is the birthday scene in ''New Moon''. I recently turned 16, and my best friend has another month to wait until she's 16, which means I'm older than her. it doesn't piss me off though. In fact, I'm often happy that I'm older. So why is Bella wangsting about being older than Edward? Heck, she isn't really older, anyways.
** It was probably meant to give her a reason to try and get Edward to turn her. Other factors probably included the stereotype that guys have to be older than girls (not a problem for Edward since he's been around for over a century) and Bella afraid of being old and wanting to hang onto her youth.
*** Cullen cover's rely on all of couples look similar in age. She getting older is a painful reminder of how every day they are growing apart.
** She's 18. Edward stopped aging at 17. Paedo!Bella (technically, Ephebo!Bella) would have no longer been able to legally have sex with Edward in all fifty states if he remained a legal entity and his chronological age had stopped increasing at the time of his original death. For some reason, this matters to her. It was also a milestone towards her becoming wrinkly and dead.

*** That makes zero sense. Bella would not be an ephebophile for having a 17 year old bf at the age of 18. It doesn’t work like that. Technically, the age range of ephebophilia runs to 19 anyway.


*** Of course, that's only assuming that [[HollywoodProvincialism the age of consent in all states is 18]]. It really shouldn't be a problem since some states like Washington have sixteen as the age of consent. No problem there.
*** But that doesn't make sense: presumably, Edward's legal age would not be fixed at 17, because that would be really freaking suspicious.
*** "...in all fifty states..." "...if he remained a legal entity and his chronological age had stopped at the time of his death..." I never said it made in-universe sense, and followed it up with what seems to be the author's intent ("...a milestone towards her becoming wrinkly and dead").
** It has less to do with legalities and more to do with Bella simply being pretentious.

* If Bella has a Magic Mind Shield that makes it so no vampire powers work on her how does Alice keep seeing her future? For that matter why does Jasper's emotion control work on her (as seen, at least in the movie, when he makes her happy about her Birthday party)?
** In the books, it explains that she's only immune to mind powers. Alice doesn't get inside her head, she just sees what's coming for her. Jasper effects her body chemistry, not thoughts. Granted, the line between mind and body is blurry at best but this is never brought up in the books.
** Even better, the test they use to see how well Bella can extend her powers is to subject Edward repeatedly to a vampire who can generate painful electrical currents. If she can only block mental attacks, how the hell is she invulnerable to that power?
** Its outright stated by the character that her power is like Jane's, but that she can't project it like Jane does. Jane doesn't actually cause pain - she just makes you think you're in pain.
*** Which still doesn't make sense, since you don't just get pain *poofed* in your head. If Jasper controls emotions by changing one's body chemistry, Jane and Alec make one feel and get numb to pain by affecting the neural firings in one's brain. Just because there's not an outside stimulus justifying the feeling of pain doesn't mean that the same physical reaction isn't going on. (In other words, if Bella shoved her hand into an open flame, her brain would process the pain from the nerve endings and send out "INTENSE PAIN", which ought to serve the function of telling Bella to get the fire off of her hand and avoid physical harm. Since pain cannot be felt without something being picked up, Jane's power should work exactly the same, only making people ''think'' something is causing the body to think "Danger! Physical harm! Feel pain to avoid!") This troper would accept the whole "Jane and Alec just magically make pain happen" explanation, except that Meyer went to the trouble to explain how Jasper's power works "scientifically". So how aren't they the same concept?
*** The perception of pain happens in the mind. Jane's sensation of burning pain, Alec's sensory deprivation mist and Kate's sensation of an electric shock, these are all projected directly into their victims' minds, without affecting their nervous systems. And it is definitely possible for the mind to perceive sensations without the nervous system actually picking them up. It happens all the time when we dream. In our dreams we hear, see, smell, taste and feel things that are not really there at all.

* Why was Edward concerned that Bella would run off and leave him once she became a vampire, unless they were married first? Did he not believe in the mate bond?
** He may have suspected she wants [[GoldDigger vamping]] more than him or that she won't find him [[LovingAShadow interesting]] if they will be equals.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Bloodlust]]
* How do the Cullens manage not to go crazy from the scent of blood when their female classmates are menstrating? Does menstral blood somehow not count? And on that topic, how does Jasper stay in control when his classmates get paper cuts?
** According to Meyer, menses is 'dead' blood and doesn't count ...

* Jasper goes berserk at the scent of a ''single drop'' of Bella's blood, yet Good Vampire Carlisle seems to have no issues sending him to a school where someone is ''bound'' to get a bloody nose or a cut at some point. Now, Alice can keep an eye on the future and possibly get him out of there, but then why didn't she foresee the paper-cut disaster?
** Didn't James say that Bella's blood smelled better than most others (he said it was almost floral)? Nose blood has snot mixed with it, and is very quickly "dead" like dead blood.
** [[{{Squick}} Although the "dead blood" explanation makes no sense in Real Life, there is some argument that menstrual blood could be unappetizing, if not downright revolting. Menstrual blood is actual blood and tissue, so it's possible that the tissue might turn them off, like eating a hamburger with buns made of leather.]]
** To answer the second question, it's been implied that Alice generally has to be looking in order to see something in the future. She wasn't watching Jasper's decisions or Bella's, so there was no reason she would see the papercut coming.
*** There were a whole host of decisions that lead to that moment. Alice decided to wrap the present in that razorwire paper, she decided to bring Bella to the birthday party, she decided to hand her that present at that moment, Bella chose to handle it in such a way as to cut herself, Jasper decided to move closer and breathe, and Alice decided to bring her bloody finger up into view.

* So why in the world didn't Jasper go crazy in the first book when Bella's delicious blood is splashed all over the ballet studio after James' attack?
** It might be down to an instinct to attack...and James was right there. And all Bella can see is some fighting, Alice might've fought him off.
*** No, because the climax of ''Eclipse'' clearly shows that the smell of Bella's blood is enough to get a vampire to break off in the middle of battle to nom on her.
*** But Bella's blood is apparently so appealing that it can make Victoria break off an attack on Edward right when she's on the cusp of victory.
*** It still should have warranted a similar reaction from Edward as what we got in New Moon. Especially considering that Bella was in even more danger then with a vampire actively trying to hunt her than she was with one who temporarily lost control.
*** He could have held his breath in the studio so he wouldn't catch the scent of her blood.
*** Then why don't they hold their breaths all the time so they don't smell any human blood and go into a frenzy? Especially considering that, as [[OurVampiresAreDifferent "vampires"]], WordOfGod has stated that they don't need to breathe.
*** From the Midnight Sun draft, if they don't breathe, they can't talk. They need to breathe in to vocalize. Not to mention that people would eventually notice that the creepy pale kids never breathe ever.
*** Yeah, but how often do they actually bother to TALK to anyone other than Bella and each other? And Meyer seems to portray the regular humans as complete idiots who can't even notice that a guy stopped a van with no injuries to speak of and skip school whenever it's sunny, so I doubt the fact that these people don't breathe is something she'd have any of them notice.
*** Well, whenever teachers talk to them for instance. And they talk to each other a lot too. So that's a lot of oxygen right there. At least Meyer thought about it a bit and stated Edward was always on the lookout for thoughts that started to piece together what they were, so in character they were mindful that someone might find out.
*** How often in the actual books do they bother talking to anyone other than Bella? Sure, we could assume they'd have to talk to teachers and students and each other, but then again, we could also assume Bella actually did anything during the months she spent near-catatonic. And if they don't need to breathe other than to talk, then they could have conceivably held their breaths while around others until they specifically had to speak.
*** They did the minimum talking to look human and once Bella was part of the Coven they talk to all her friends there. They already get away with no eating if they act even less human they will surely get in trouble.
*** Edward said in the first book that breathing is mostly something they do unconsciously because breathing was a habit they acquired when they were alive. Which is pretty lame even as {{Handwave}}s go, since breathing isn't a habit, it's an automatic action, like blinking. And when Bella becomes a vampire, the Cullens remind her to blink occasionally when around humans, so they apparently don't hang onto all their human "habits."

* Wasn't Jasper the newest Cullen to the "vegetarian" diet? Carlisle was on it longest, so that would explain why he was the most controlled. Still, the series is pretty inconsistent about whether or not the Cullens can hang out with Bella cheerfully or be driven mad with the desire to nom on her.
** Actually it's not a matter of time. Carlisle's compassion was so big that he never was able to bring himself to kill another human being for their blood and the other Cullens were turned by him so they were introduced to respecting human life from the get go so is easier for them to resist to be around humans. Jasper has problems because he was turned by a normal vampire and was trained as a vampire soldier of sorts.
*** I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure Alice wasn't turned by Carlisle either. And her human life was so traumatic she can't even remember it. So wouldn't she theoretically be even more messed up than Jasper?
*** Alice's situation is a bit complicated. [[note]]Alice was alive in the early 1900's. As a child she had premonitions, but usually stayed quiet about them. At one point she had a strong feeling that something bad would happen to a friend of hers, but they were ignored. If I remember correctly, the child ended up dying. Another, similar, incident happened, and she was eventually labeled a "witch" and "changeling" by the townspeople. One day, she had a vision that her mother would die, and her father chose to ignore it. It happened, and her father got remarried. After another vision, Alice realized that her father killed her mother in order to be with Alice's step mom, and the two were currently planning to kill Alice. Alice ran to the local authorities and reported her father and step mom, but unfortunately her father had already had her labeled as mentally disturbed. Her father had her put into a mental asylum. While at the asylum, Alice was subjected to "shock therapy" and other "cures", which eventually caused her to have amnesia. A vampire happened to work at the asylum and realized that Alice was not crazy, but a legit psychic. He became her friend while attempting to help her use her powers. Eventually Alice had a vision of James coming after her, him having smelt her blood only moments before her vision. The vampire friend bit Alice to protect her, and went to distract James. Alice woke up and her first vision was of her and Jasper joining the Cullen family.[[/note]] Basically, she had a vision after waking up from the changing process, and it was of her and Jasper living a happy life with the Cullen's. She found Jasper as soon as possible, and then they went to find their new family together. I got the impression that the intensity of the visions and hope of having a good life overrode her thirst.

* Vampires eat humans. Wouldn't this be more likely?
-->'''Bella''': Hi.
-->'''Edward''': (reveals fangs and kills her)
** The END!
*** In Midnight Sun, Edward was actually calculating how fast he could kill the entire class before eating Bella. [2.5 seconds per head, if you were wondering.] Unfortunately, this does not happen. DAMN IT EDWARD, JUST KILL HER ALREADY.
** They've went to high school forever without incident. It would more likely go like this:
---> '''Bella''': Hi.
---> '''Edward''': Go away.
---> '''Edward [[AC: (Later)]]''': Hey, Carlisle, could you tell the school I transferred until we move? There's this girl at school that smells ''very'' delicious, and I don't think I can handle not biting her if we share any classes.
---> '''Carlisle''': Sure, son! I'm glad you understand the importance of keeping our secret, and since we'll be moving soon you'll be re-learning the things you missed in another two years anyway. I'll ask [any non-Jasper sibling who attends school] to take a look at this girl to make sure you're not just trying to skip classes, but I'll send a sick note for tomorrow. Now, let's go play a game of catch!
** And this is actually what happened. Edward left for two weeks, but he both missed his family and got resentful.
*** Apparently just staying home wasn't an option. It was either go to school, or move to Alaska. Those are the only two choices.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Carlisle is a Horrible Doctor (not related to pregnancy)]]
* In chapter 13 of ''Breaking Dawn'', despite the fact that Bella is obviously very sick, feels freezing cold, has lost a lot of weight, and is suffering malnutrition and dehydration, Jacob is the one who has to tell them to get her a blanket. How did her doctor not notice that Bella was freezing?
** Maybe coldness just felt normal to vampires.
*** That would make him a bad doctor, wouldn't it? If he's unable to recognize hypothermia as a symptom of something wrong with his patients.

* So does Carlisle just cancel all his appointments and surgeries any time there's a sunny day so he can go camping? Because how does that not get him in trouble with the hospital?
** Maybe he [[ScrewTheRulesImBeautiful dazzles]] them into lenience.
** Considering the fact that large areas of hospitals are indoors without windows (for instance operating rooms) it seems like he could at least attempt to find a way to show up at work even on sunny days. Either way, a doctor avoiding standing in direct sunlight ought to be a lot less odd than a doctor who never works on sunny days.

* So Bella gets stiff-arm pushed by Edward into some glass and cuts damages her brachial nerve, and Carlisle sews her up and gives her morphine from his kitchen... WHAT?!?! One: Carlile apparently has a full surgical kit and all the tools necessary to remove broken glass from a gaping wound, repair slashed arteries, sew up the wound and disinfect and wrap it. And all these tools, coming out of an old-fashioned doctor's bag, are completely sterile? This is complex surgery and would require a team of doctors and nurses working together in ER conditions HOURS to complete. Two: This is illegal. Even if we grant that he's walking around with thousands of dollars of high end surgical equipment, he can't take drugs out of the hospital. Morphine and pharmaceutical painkillers and sedatives are tightly and strictly monitored to prevent doctors from dipping into their own supplies or starting up a side business as drug dealers. If anyone ever found out he was doing this, he would be blacklisted and never allowed to practice medicine again, not to mention a sudden problem with the DEA. Three: There is no mention of him wearing gloves. Four: Bella looks at Carlisle's face to avoid looking at her gushing wound... but Carlilse's face would have to be inches from her wound while he digs around to get the broken glass out, wouldn't it?
** Not to mention that he uses the antiseptic ''after'' closing the wound. That's like setting your home on fire and then putting up a smoke detector.
** Why does he have that kit in the first place? Do vampires often get wounds that require such equipment?

* Why did they have all that O negative blood around? Rosalie clearly implied that it was intended for Bella ''after'' her transformation, so presumably it was for her to drink. Why did Carlisle take the universal donor blood, though, and not just some AB positive or something that no one was going to miss?
** It's been a long time since I read the books, but I got the impression that the blood was in case Bella needed a transfusion after the birth, or at some point during the pregnancy, in which case she would require a specific type rather than whatever wouldn't be missed. I didn't think that they'd be encouraging her to drink human blood after her transformation, seeing as they're all "vegetarians."
*** However, there's a lot more to getting a blood transfusion than having a matching blood type. They still need to screen both Bella's blood and the donor blood to make sure that they don't transfuse her with a unit that might react with alloantibodies in her own blood. The tests for alloantibodies are typically only valid for about five days and then you need to re-test. Granted, in real-life hospitals simply give 0 neg blood regardless of alloantibodies in an emergency situation but it's risky and there is absolutely no need for that with Bella. They have all the time in the world to test her blood (they know roughly when she is due and if nothing else they can re-test her blood as needed) and give her the best possible match rather than taking the risk. In addition, if Bella is any other blood type than 0 neg she will be much better off getting her own blood type. In other words, there's no logical reason why they wouldn't bother running a very simple test and instead just stock up on whatever inconveniences them the least.


* Carlisle treats Jacob after the battle in ''Eclipse'' by deliberately injecting him with an overdose of morphine because he "burned through it to quickly." You know what happens when you overdose on morphine? You asphyxiate.
** For that matter, why is morphine the only painkiller that Carlisle ever uses?
*** Because RuleOfCool.

* Twice in less than a year, Carlisle abandons all of his patients and abruptly quits his job at the hospital, the first time because the Cullens left town in ''New Moon'', and the second time to attend Bella full time when she gets pregnant. How is he not brought up before an ethics board for violating HIPPA and blacklisted as a physician?

* In chapter 7 of ''Eclipse'', Carlisle collects Bella's symptoms over the phone and then talks with Edward, where Carlisle shades his diagnosis and discusses treatment with him. Do you have any idea how many laws and codes of ethics that violates? I'm not talking modern ones, either. He didn’t ask Bella about this at all. He didn’t tell her this at all. He obviously told Edward that Bella was in mortal peril, but not her? Carlisle is keeping very vital information from his patient. You can’t do that. That’s a serious violation of ethics, and it’s a crime. Why didn't the doctor think the patient would want to know that there is a high possibility that this pregnancy will kill her? Not only does he keep important diagnosis and risks from her, he also keeps the treatment from her, too! He didn't tell her her options, just informed Edward what he was going to do and told him to bring Bella back here so he could do it! He didn't ask Bella anything. You are supposed to ask the patient if they consent to the treatment—doctors do not perform anything, from skin tag removal to heart transplants, without discussing it with the patient and getting their consent first.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:The Cullens as Conspicuous Consumers]]
* How is it that the Cullens own a private island, but not a private jet? Why are they always messing around with commercial travel?

* Alice sure shops a lot. The Cullens always have fashionable clothes. If you're immortal, that's going to add up to a ''lot'' of possessions. Are they, like, constantly getting rid of stuff? What's wrong with antiques and wearing vintage? (In this case, that would mean reusing things you bought decades ago.) The whole thing is just so wasteful.
** It is wasteful, but it's also a way of showing off just how rich and luxurious the Cullen lifestyle is. Which if you think about it, kind of goes against the whole "don't attract attention" issue of their lives.
** I could be wrong, but I think I remember a line in ''Breaking Dawn'' which said that the Cullens wear most of their clothes once, then donate them to charity. Why no one's gotten curious about the sudden upswing in highly fashionable homeless people days after the Cullens arrived in Forks is beyond me.
*** Did some math on that. If the Cullens wear a new set of clothes every day, only wear designer labels, and get rid of them immediately after wearing them, then Alice is spending roughly 33,000 dollars a week just on shirts and pants for the seven people in the family. That is a low estimate—and it’s not counting all of the shoes, dresses, skirts, socks, underwear, lingerie, scarves, hats, purses, wallets, and other accessories she undoubtedly buys! Multiply 33 thousand out by 52 weeks in a year, and Alice is spending close to two million dollars a year on shirts and pants alone.
** Consignment stores carry high-end clothing and are linked to charities sometimes, that would probably be the least wasteful option.
** Well, to be fair, this is an issue with the VampiresAreRich trope in general. FridgeLogic dictates that someone who's immortal may look at consumption and acquisition differently than your average human.
** Of course, given their college bills (as in, multiple degrees for Edward alone), this leads to the question of how they could afford fancy clothes and such, despite moving around so much, along with those college bills, on just one doctor's salary.
** I think in the books it says that Alice uses her psychic powers to predict what will happen in the stock market and then the family invests money accordingly, which explains where they get the money from, but renders their status as beacons of morality kind of sketchy. Also, if they supposedly care about human life and human suffering so much, you'd think they'd use that money to help people.
** A deleted scene in ''Twilight'' also shows Alice using her psychic powers at a casino in Vegas for some extra cash. She literally walks through a bank of slot machines and occasionally stops in front of a random machine to swoop up the jackpot she knows is coming. In the scene, she implies that she does this for fun every time she's in the area.
** Maybe being immortal, their perspective on fashion is a little sketchy. They feel the need to buy new clothes often so that they don't look out of place and distinctively old fashioned, after all, if you're over a hundred then clothes from 2008 and 1998 might not look so different?
*** They really don't, actually. [[http://www.refinery29.com/do-you-remember-delias-1999-catalog Here]] is a Delia's catalog from 1999. You can easily wear most of these clothes today and no one will bat an eye. You can actually wear certain articles of clothing for decades if it's a well-made classic like slacks, pea coats, the LBD, etc. The national uniform since the 1970s has been jeans and a t-shirt, which is pretty basic. Even if your tee has an outdated image or slogan, people will just assume it's vintage. So again, the Cullen's shopping habits are really pretty wasteful and nonsensical.
*** Just speculating here, but over time, they might've lost the ability to recognize whether or not something will look vintage or not. For someone who's been living from a few hundred hears, clothes from 1950s and clothes from 2000s might not look too dissimilar, so, having cash, they prefer to be on the safe side.

* In ''New Moon'', Alice uses a $1000 dollar bill to bribe a police officer to let her and Bella through a checkpoint without holding them. Thousand-dollar bills haven't been printed since 1934, and even then they were never in circulation as currency, being used primarily between banks and the Federal Reserve. So why is she travelling around with this highly conspicuous, unwieldy currency instead of a wad of hundred Euro notes? And why would this Italian police officer accept a bribe in a foreign currency?


* Edward says that the Cullens have expensive, top-end cars because they like to drive fast. Edward drives a [=S60R=] Volvo. Rosalie drives a BMW M3 red convertible. We're talking about more than $100,000 in cars and we haven't covered even half the family. But these are not cars driven by people who are expert mechanics and like to drive fast. If they truly wanted to drive fast with their “simple indulgences”, they would not drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on those cars—those kinds of cars do not last long, and are notoriously finicky and full of problems. Why are the Cullens driving these over-priced show cars instead of supeing-up a Mustang or Corvette, or even a Barracuda from the sixties and seventies?
** 'Cause Stephenie Meyers' brothers are car guys and she let them each pick a car for the Cullens to drive.[[/folder]]

[[folder:The Cullens as Perpetual High School Students]]
* I still haven't heard a good reason as to why the Cullen youngsters are perpetually in high school. Even turned as teenagers, they could easily pass off as adults. No sane person would want to be in high school forever, having to hang around teenagers 100 years younger than them and always learning the same things over and over. Some people justify it that knowledge changes so they should keep going to high school to learn the new things, but adults in real life don't live as high school students every year and they do just fine. The main Headscratcher in all that: why don't they spend their time doing something productive, something they would actually enjoy? Again, no one would want to hang out with teenagers 100 years younger than them, and it's pretty clear it's the case for the Cullens, since they generally avoid hanging out with the other students. They're immortal, they have all the time they want to master arts and sciences, and we do know they've gone to college and are proficient in some of the arts. Anyone with eternal life and youth, and access to lots of money would want to spend their time pursuing something big, not attending high school every year of their life.
** My theory is that Meyer wrote a HighSchoolAU fanficiton based on ''Literature/TheSookieStackhouseMysteries'' and then changed the names and some of the character details so she could get it published.
*** I second this theory. Even the Bella's-blood-smells-better is consistent with [[spoiler: Sookie's blood being intoxicating to vampires.]]
*** Both relationships are at least partly built on the fact that one is unable to read the others mind.
*** Bill helps Sookie learn to control her psychic powers and Edward helps Bella learn to control her mind shield thing.
*** Both stories also involve a war involving vampires and were wolves in which the female main character winds up playing and integral part (though Bella's significance in the conflict seems far more contrived and the extent to which she actually helps in the conflict is questionable.)
*** Both heroines are virgins and both male leads are mysterious, brooding, tortured types.
*** If you think about it, Twilight is ''The Sookie Stackouse Mysteries'' with all of the subtler inter-character conflicts ([[spoiler: like the fact that Bill originally had an ulterior motive in pursuing Sookie]]) removed and replaced with a vampire/werewolf love triangle [[spoiler: which sort of happened in ''The Sookie Stackhouse Mysteries'', but was more of a minor subplot and wound up not really being integral to the story.]] You could tell which part of the story Meyer liked best.
*** There's even a line in ''The Sookie Stackhouse Mysteries'' [[spoiler:in a conversation between Eric and Sookie during the time that Eric had amnesia]] wherein vampires are compared to lions.
** Then again, if you have eternal youth and life, you may find it easy to be patient. High school now isn't what it was in the 60s, 70s or 80s, and maybe if you're not Edward (who, even after having been through an excruciatingly painful vampire transformation, does consider American high school anno 2005 to be "purgatory", as the drama queen he is) you find the changes nice and the updates in information interesting and have hope that teenagers won't always be required to go to high school or whatever.
** They could just be bored. They don't need sleep, they have no real need for jobs or anything of that sort. Maybe going to high school is just their way of getting out of the house. Add on to the fact that the Cullens, as vegetarians, seem to like clinging to what is left of their humanity, doing what humans do is the closest they can come.
* Canon states that vampires are physically ''and'' mentally frozen at the age they were when they were turned. Since most of the younger Cullens were turned pretty young (and all of them were mortal in time periods where high school-level education was not required), maybe they're just attending high school in order to keep up, and they have to keep doing as their memories "reset" to their mortal default? (But then, how on earth do they retain anything long enough for any of them to earn college degrees?)

* Why in the world do the Cullen "kids" keep attending high school ''over and over again''? Sounds like some kind of special Hell. I realize they can stay longer in one place the "younger" they start out, so why can't they just say they're homeschooled? That would also limit their contact with humans and lessen the chance of suspicious questions being raised.
** Several reasons.
*** High School on this small town is the place where the much amount of minds collide, so Edward can have a close surveillance of the humans in case someone start to have ideas so they can move out before they investigate it.
*** Home schooled newbies could get more people paying attention to them, than a group of snobbish kids feeling they are better than anyone could do.
*** Jasper needs the practice of being around humans and they cannot have him alone with just Alice to prevent him from eating one of the kids, so they all go.
*** And what does Jasper use for practice? High school kids.
*** They choose overcast places so they can go out, it would be stupid for them no to try to live as humans as possible lives, I mean they don't pose as HS all the time but in Forks it was the easiest way to go out almost daily, stay together and Jasper to practice and they were going to need papers for college anyway soon enough. It just made sense when they moved back for them to pose as students for a couple of years.

* Why do the Cullens even associate with humans at all? I mean, no one goes to their house (or anywhere near there), they never age, which does end up bringing some awkward questions (as evidenced by ''New Moon''), they don't need food, they don't need to keep buying clothes, etc. so the money is almost pointless. And, as an added bonus, keeping the kids away from humans will prevent anything from going horribly, horribly wrong! Other vampires seem to be able to do this. What makes the Cullens so special that they have to?
** I think it's the father's doctor instinct. Plus I think they are all doing their best to reject their vampirism. Remember, Carlisle turned them to save their lives, not because he wanted them to actually be vampires.
*** Then why the flip don't they interact with people and generally act like humans?
*** They don't interact with humans because for being "vegetarian vampires", they still hold the attitude that they're superior and that humans are not worth their notice. But it's not like they have anything else to do with their time since Carlisle is the only one who actually does anything for a living.
*** Or that the risk of flipping out if someone gets a papercut is too much of a risk for them to take. Plus, the better they get to know a human the more that human will notice about them.
*** In which case, they shouldn't be going to school and hanging out around humans on a regular basis to begin with.
*** Then they become detached from humanity and become monsters overtime. The whole point behind them interacting with Humans is to get them to see them as people, not as food. If you don't interact with humans, eventually you'll stop considering them as people and start thinking of them as something lesser. Plus, Charisle is a doctor. He's always going to be helping people because that's what he does (and apparantly Edward in a few cases goes through med-school). If they don't interact with humans, how is Charisle going to blend in?
*** But they're still detached from humanity anyway because they don't see humans as people. At all. Edward was fully intending to slaughter a room full of innocent people, and only decided not to because he was worried that Bella's blood would go cold by the time he got to drink it. If anything, Carlisle being a doctor makes him blend in LESS, not more. The process of becoming a doctor takes years and there is a constant need for continuing education to learn about the new styles and approaches. The Cullens are constantly moving around to avoid people noticing that they don't age, and yet Carlisle has a well-known reputation as a very experienced doctor. That is counter-productive to the whole "don't let the humans find out about us" issue.
*** That situation was because [[MarySue Bella's]] blood was overwhelmingly attractive to him to the point he stopped thinking rationally. As for Carlisle, there's this wonderful thing called forgery, fake credentials, etc. and he's got enough money to buy people's silence and skills. We already know that Alice has a contact who specialises in creating new identities for people; with enough money Carlisle can buy enough documentation to show he's as skilled as he is (and he probably does go for more education to keep his skills up to date).
*** His thinking was still rather concise and logical for his intent to commit mass slaughter, especially given that Bella's blood going cold before he could drink it was the ONLY thing keeping him from going through with it. Forgery and buying documentation does not earn one the level of reputation we are supposed to believe Carlisle has, to the point where he was sought after by several major hospitals. Lets also keep in mind that the regular education for a doctor involves YEARS of continuous work, something Carlisle cannot afford to have if they want to downplay their identities as vampires. Even if he is attending Harvard every decade or so, that means he'd be spending just as much time re-learning everything as he is actually working and thus not have the time to build up a reputation. Plus if he's constantly re-doing medical school, tenure ensures the likelihood that professors will probably stay at Harvard for more than ten years, and Carlisle is quite distinctive in appearance and apparently adept enough in this field to be noticed. False documentation and money can't buy anyone a reputation like that. And that's not even going into the required background checks on all medical personnel by law and how Carlisle is able to fake school records and the memories of the alumni. Especially if this is the guy who is supposed to be running the hospital. Not only would this likely not work, but just the fact that he's attempting it at all kind of puts a spotlight on him and the family that makes it questionable whether they are even really trying to keep their secret hidden.
*** He's naturally a hunter, and you're still dodging the issue that his was a one-off occurrence for him. As for Carlisle, the forged documentation only refers to his identity along with documentation to back up whatever level of skill he wants to pass as. What makes you think he always goes to Harvard instead of just going to new universities? And he got his reputation through his work, he didn't buy that. He just bought the credentials to get the work to begin with. And again you're not counting the fact that A) Charlisle is incredibly wealthy, B) he's made a lot of contacts over his long lifetime, C) he's a doctor in a small-town, and D) people with less money and skill have managed to pull off similar forgeries. All he has to do is spend enough money to buy records and the right's people's words (or just save their lives) and he can get in.
*** What "one-off occurrence"? He's killed people before and he honestly hasn't shown any indication of giving a damn about them now, if his desire to murder a classroom full of innocent folks and complete nonchalance at the blatant loss of life Victoria's causing until Bella is directly threatened are any indication. If he considers slaughtering people to be an acceptable loss and doesn't care how many innocent lives are destroyed as a result of his actions, saying he's detached from humanity is an understatement. And the whole "hunter" bit doesn't excuse him because he's constantly being emo about "being a monster", not because he actually regrets how much he's hurt people, but because of what his actions may imply about HIM. I think Carlisle goes to Harvard because WordOfGod says he goes to Harvard. Reputation takes time to build up. If he's constantly moving and changing his identity to avoid detection, that does not allow much time to become well-known. And law requires the checking of those credentials. Someone's bound to notice things are off at some point. As for your points, A) wealth can get the illegal documentation but not a reputation, B) he couldn't make that many contacts over his long life because that would increase risk of detection when they realize he's not aging (and being doctors, that's kind of a likely scenario), C) a well-known doctor in a small-town running the only hospital the town has and thus would be required to have worked there for a good while previously and have the officials looking into his background, and D) for how long and as opposed to how many who tried and failed? The law enforcement and medical licensing officials are not that stupid. He can forge to his heart's content, but they keep track of who is licensed and who isn't, and those people have to regularly update their status. Time-wise, it makes no sense. Legal-wise, it doesn't work. And none of that changes the very real fact that he's making himself noticeable to the point of endangering their secret. Unless they have amazing hacking skills that lets them remove any previous evidence of Carlisle's other personas, which Meyer never said they had. Just like she never said how he got past official investigations or that he bribed people to lie for him, which would still involve people knowing something's not right about him anyway and thus endanger the secret. Face it, Carlisle as a doctor is an obvious issue in terms of the "don't let anyone find out we're not normal" plan.
** First off; Edward killed people he thought deserved it. A far cry from innocent people, and even then he eventually came to hate doing it. Was he indifferent to people dying because of Victoria? ...who knows? It's never brought up, he was more focused on MarySue and her safety. Again with Carlisle, yes he probably has people who knows he's not normal. He doesn't seem opposed to the idea at all; he doesn't bat an eye at Bella knowing that he and his family are vampires, and he doesn't care when Bella's father finds out about it to.
*** And that certainly makes it better, doesn't it? As long as Edward thought they deserved it. Then again, he apparently thought a bunch of high school kids deserved it, too. And again, he only hated it because it meant HE was a bad person for doing it. Yes, he was indifferent. He made no mention of them and expressed no concern despite knowing that people had to be dying for Victoria to be creating a vampire army. He didn't give a damn about Victoria at all until it became clear that Bella was the target. Nevermind that they could have taken her out and prevented the immense loss of innocent lives or anything. Plus his comment to Bella at the scene where innocent people were being taken to be eaten by the Volturi was an apology for her seeing it, not that it was happening. He doesn't care about anyone besides Bella. If Carlisle has people who know he's not normal, that means their vampire secret isn't a secret and they're breaking vampire law, which would then set the Volturi off. It's still counter-productive to the "don't let humans know" problem. Bella, being a MarySue AuthorAvatar, was obviously going to be an exception. And I suppose her dad should have been expected so Bella could keep what little she may have valued from her human life. But hell, it's honestly a surprise that the entire town doesn't know about the secret with how poorly they hide it.
*** Edward was being the monster at the time and it was not the cold it was Carlisle teaching that stopped him. People fantasize about killing their bosses or people that cut them in cars all the time. Most sane people don't go with it, Edward had a moment of weakness but it was on passing.
** There's a chance it's something like they want to identify with humans, because they still want to ''be'' human/e though they are vampire. It's like when someone converted to a religion prefers to spend time around other people from that religion in order to not get the "wrong" influences... just opposite, so that they are vampires converted to humanism instead of humans converted to vampirism.
*** Then, it could also be that they are secretly looking for a "missing" component to their otherwise perfect, four-couple family, given that they basically cut out any and all contact with humans after Bella is turned.
*** Except with Charlie, Sue Clearwater and the Quileutes. Makes one wonder how Bella could drive to Charlie's on Christmas Eve without being noticed.

* Why does Edward Cullen pass around as a 17-year-old when he could pass himself off as a an 18-year-old with full legal rights? If I were a 100-something-year-old vampire with the body of someone in his late teens, I would still prefer to be treated as a young adult than as a teenager.
** The books state that the Cullens started to study there two years before Bella arrived so Edward 17th year old person passed himself as a 15th year when he first entered school, and has been "aging" accordingly. So he will legally reach 18 at some point, guessing he can play a slowly aging young adult he might be able to graduate from college, again, and pretending to be 23 or 24, before starting all over again. You have to wonder how did he passed as just 15 years old and Rosalie and Emmett passing as 16 year old ones, specially Emmett that is already big for his age.
* Let's just say a lot of these problems could have been solved with homeschooling.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:The Cullens' Morality]]
* The Cullen's feeding habits seem questionable. Not only do they seem to prefer apex predators within the eco system (cougars, bears) and the like, but when they go after herbivores, they seem to take down the biggest and healthiest specimens they can find. Meaning that they are deliberately weakening the gene pool of the elk and deer population of the Olympic National Park. Not only that, but they seem to treat the endangered species registry as a wine list. They talk gleefully about hunting the Olympic wolf, polar bears, and jaguars.

* If the Cullens are supposed to value human life so much, then why is Bella the only human they ever lift a finger to protect? There are many points in the story when other humans are hurt or killed (sometimes in large numbers) and the Cullens don't even seem to take notice of it as long as Bella isn't one of those people. In fact they show a deliberate, callous disregard for anyone who isn't Bella. If they truly value all human life why do they prioritize one over all the others? I understand why Edward does (because he's blinded by love or whatever) but shouldn't the others be more practical about it? Especially Carlisle who's supposed to be incredibly compassionate? Wouldn't someone whose trademark is meant to be their super-human concern for human life be willing to let one person die if that person remaining alive required hundreds of others to die? (and Victoria does kill hundreds of humans while creating her "new born army" for the one and only purpose of getting revenge on Bella) or at least flinch a little when confronted with suffering and death of hundreds of humans? Sure, he's does the whole doctor thing, but once they step foot outside the hospital he doesn't really seem to give a fuck what happens to them. Actually, other than not doing any of the killing themselves, I don't recall any of the Cullens ever being shown doing anything to prevent human suffering.
** Classic example of Smeyer telling but not showing. She says that the Cullens are compassionate, loving vampires who protect all humans, and we're supposed to believe her even though there is no evidence in the text to support that statement. Even the one thing that might count as evidence (not drinking human blood) feels more like a way for them to avoid suspicion so they are able to live in a big mansion in the woods and to interact with people as opposed to being nomads or recluses like the "real" vampires.
** One could even make the argument that the Cullens abstain from human blood to look ''good,'' not because of their morality. It's sort of like people who are vegans/vegetarians. Many of them don't eat meat and/or other animal products because of their morality, but others only do it so they can brag about it. The Cullens could be the latter type.
*** The Cullens are the only vegetarian vampires in the world. They cannot break the rules revealing themselves and they can really work as superheroes gaining the animosity of every other single vampire. They could had easily decide to kill them if not for Carlisle diplomacy. If he was the jerk in the way of feeding of humans the Reneesme situation would had end up in bloody without the witnesses. Smeyer knows how people react to disrespect. Their hands were tied and the best they could do was help without messing anyone.
*** First, the Cullens are not the only vegetarian vampires. Do the Denalis not count? Second of all, if Carlisle could provide an endless supply of donated blood for Bella and Renesmee to eat, why couldn't he have provided that, for the vampires who found vegetarianism so unappealing/offensive? Not to mention, Siobahan and several others were supposed to be close friends to Carlisle. It doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice to adhere to a somewhat different diet for a short period of time, to respect a friend's beliefs and lifestyle choices. Plenty of people do that when they enter other cultures or countries. What, are the vampires so naturally murderous that it's fine for the Cullens to ignore their own beliefs and let the visitors do what they want, but not for the visitors to do a favor for a friend? It's not like eating deer for a couple of weeks out of eternity should be that big of a deal.
** Maybe their principles only forbids actively ''killing'' people, so just letting them die is okay.
*** They loan their cars to the visiting vampires so they can get to major population centers more easily. In legal terms, this is called conspiracy to commit murder and accessory to murder, and is impossible to defend ethically.
* If the Cullens consider the Denali sisters to be their cousins, why didn't anyone send them word when Bella had a baby? Were they worried they wouldn't believe them?
** One theory would be that they weren't considered family anymore after having the nerve to be upset that Laurent died. After all the Cullens ''are'' horrible people. But since they were invited to the wedding it seems more likely that the Cullens simply hoped to keep it secret until the horror baby was full grown or died of all age after a couple of years. There is also a chance they simply expected the Denali to find the subject of magical babies too close to home and weren't sure what they were going to do about it. Could if so have been easily averted with a message along the lines of: "Bella is pregnant. Looks like vampires aren't so infertile anyway. XXX".
** The mess could so easily have been avoided if the Cullens weren't so secretive about it. Just let it be known vampires can have children, then nobody would have misunderstood the situation. Since nobody had seen Irina in months, Meyer could easily have written it that the other sisters did know but couldn't get hold of Irina, but no the Cullens didn't tell anybody about the baby. Maybe this is why nobody knew vampires could have children.
*** Jacob had imprinted on Reneesme inviting the Denalis to Forks would had been a problem with him around all day. I'm sure they probably planned to move to Alaska once they left for Forks and introduce Reneesme to them away from Jacob at least or from the rest of the pack to avoid issues. I'm sure knowing the new comer came with one of the people that killed Laurent would had been easier if done in Alaska.

* Why do they call the vampires "vegetarian" just because they drink animal blood rather than human blood? Maybe this is just my inner GranolaGirl talking, but vampires drink blood, and since there isn't any such thing as plant blood, vampires cannot be vegetarian.
** It's more of a injoke between vampires than an actual scientific definition.
*** So the injoke is that the Cullens refer to themselves as vegetarian, but define it as the complete antonym to what the word actually means? So where exactly do I laugh?
*** Vampires only drink blood, so really the opposite of a vegetarian vampire would be a cannibal. You may laugh now.
** I always tought it's because they only feed from a grade lower category of the living. Like vegetarians eat plants, which is a lower degree among the living beings than animals...
[[/folder]]

[[folder:The Ending]]

* How in the world does the resolution of ''Breaking Dawn'' count as a victory against the Volturri? The Cullens know the Volturi are pissed and aren’t going to forget this. And they know that they won’t try to charge them head-on a second time and give the Cullens plenty of opportunity to gather their forces. They know how the Cullen's witnesses came together and caught the Volturi unprepared this time, and they know exactly how to fool Alice’s visions now because they’ve seen what happened in ''Eclipse''. They know to strike hard and fast, they know to pick the Cullens and their allies off one by one, and they know to do it with vampires Alice has never seen before and so won’t be tracking with her ability. That's bad enough, but what's even worse is that the Cullens told Aro everything. By touching his hand, the Cullens told Aro every single detail about every single person on their side. He revealed everybody’s names, their powers, their motivations, their future plans, their weaknesses, their friends, their mates—everything. He told them the weakness to Bella’s shield, so Aro knows not to go up against her again with merely mental powers. He knows now to go find vampires that have physical abilities. But more specifically Edward told him exactly how to hide from Alice’s visions. He doesn’t need to just not think about things and avoid decisions like Victoria did. He just needs a shape-shifter or a halfbreed. That’s all. Shape-shifters would be hard to get, admittedly. But halfbreeds aren’t. Not only can he just make his own, but the text suggested that they would be interested in going down to South America to talk with Joham, and I have no doubt whatsoever that Aro will acquire Nahuel’s sisters just as soon as possible. Once he gets his hands on a half-breed, Alice is officially blind to any and all plans the Volturi have. And yes, Aro can easily find them and overpower them and brainwash them. Because the Volturi still have Demetri and Chelsea and Jane and Alec. Once Aro gets a halfbreed in his ranks, Alice would be blind. There would be no warning. The most she would get would be the Volturi suddenly vanishing from her visions. There is no way they could reach all of their friends in time. The Volturi have Demetri, and they are closer to all of the European and Egyptian vampires’ home bases. They could sweep in and wipe out the Irish, the Egyptians, the Romanians—everyone. The Cullens wouldn’t know where they were going, and they wouldn’t know how fast they were going to get there, because Alice couldn’t See it. So again, how did the Cullens score a win here?
** Yes The Volturi theoretically could take advantage of the Cullens weaknesses and launch a sneak attack... but not without risking losing quite a few of their own numbers. The Volturi are cowards. Noone had ever stood up to them the way the Cullens and their Allies did before. And the whole reason they decided to attack them in the first place was because they were scared of a large coven existing with strong powers and strong bonds. Particularly one with different beliefs and lifestyle choices to theirs. They saw them as a threat to be wiped out. Renesme was just the excuse to launch the attack. And at the end they turn and run because they have never faced a fight that was even somewhat equal before. I doubt they were dare go up against the Cullens again... particularly not in the near future.
*** The near future is not the area in which immortal vampires plan. I was specifically figuring on the Volturi's revenge to come about seven years after the climax of Breaking Dawn; the length of time it will take Aro to get himself some half-breeds and let them grow to maturity. Then they start picking off the Cullens' allies one by one. How are the Culleens going to present a threat to the Cullens a second time, especially when they won't know the enemy is coming, thanks to Alice being blind, and Bella won't be able to protect everyone, since Step 1 will be to have Benjamin drop her into a magma pool (yes, the Volturi will have gone after Benjamin and Zafrina and used Chelsea to 'recruit' them). Even if you want to argue that Benjamin and Zafrina will be able to stay out of the Volturi's hands, all they have to do to neutralize Bella's shield is to have a half-dozen or so purely physical attackers go after her. Then the Cullens can be blinded by Alec, pained-in-the face by Jane, and all the rest. So I ask, what can the Cullens do to stop this, especially since they won't know it's coming ahead of time?
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Everyone's Beautiful]]
* Why does the book go into so much detail about how people look? Isn't that really superficial? I know Bella's a teenager, but isn't this supposed to be an ethical look at sex?
** Yes, but it's also a teen love book. The entire idea is to capture how a teen looks at the world.
** It's a story without pics so describing his looks is important. Bella doesn't fall in love with Edward till she knows the whole truth about him. Edward's looks didn't made his life better or easier, neither of the Cullens and specially Rosalie had their looks make their choosing to be vegetarians any easier.
*** Number one, no. It is not important to describe his looks in that amount of detail just because it doesn't have pictures. Most books do not have pictures. And yet, most books do not find the need to describe the main male characters beauty a total of 165 times in the first book alone (and yes, that is the real number of times Edward's beauty is mentioned). That is far beyond being "excessive". Even for a teenager in first lust, that's excessive.
*** I'm sorry; have you been a teenager? A teen could easily think of their crush's face 165 times, assuming that is in fact accurate, in one ''week,'' much less months.
*** Number two, yes, she absolutely falls in love with him before knowing the whole truth. In fact, she falls in love with him despite the fact that she's still fairly certain he might want to kill her. It's kind of the whole point of one of the book's most famous quotes (the "three things" quote where she says a) she knows some part of him wants to nom her and b) she's still irrevocably in love with him... in short, it doesn't matter if he's a good person or not).
*** And number three, yes, his looks absolutely make things easier for him. That is in fact, the reason given IN THE BOOKS for why he is so good looking. Smeyer specifically states that vampires look so good so that people will trust them and do whatever they want. So yes, Edward has to "suffer" with being a vegetarian, but it is also stated that all the humans give the Cullens preferential treatment.
*** But she doesn't describe his looks. "Gorgeous" isn't really a description, it's a value judgment. We have no real idea what he looks like, other than that he's red-headed, pasty and sparkly with a crooked smile.
*** You must not have been paying attention: Hair is tousled bronze (reddish-brown) his eyes are liquid topaz with purplish almost bruise like circles under them... they lighten and almost disappear when he has fed. Long, black lashes, perfectly sculpted face with high cheekbones, straight nose, perfect full lips with razor sharp, straight, white teeth and is a bit feminine given that he looks like his mother Elizabeth, pale skin perfectly smooth, alabaster white and his body is more boyish, but lean and strong. I think Smeyer was describing a {{Bishonen}}.
*** Because apparently the looks are the only notable and worthwhile thing about him. Take that away and you're left with an obvious abuser, and no one would be interested in getting with him.
*** Part of the engrossing of the books is describing the lead character over and over again. Its almost like brainwashing. You end convinced he is a real person that you fall in love with him.
* Meyer says that vampires become beautiful to lure in their prey, because it's not like they could just ambush them with their super speed or anything. How do vampires always fit with human standards of beauty? Beauty isn't a law of physics, it's a social standard that changes with time. Being pale and chubby was considered beautiful a while back, because it meant that you were well-fed and didn't have to do any physical work, but now it's the opposite- tan and thin is the way to go. Different societies have different standards of beauty. Vampires are always pale and seem to conform to modern standards of beauty (we have yet to see an overweight vampire). So what did they do in a society where the Standard Vampire look was ''not'' considered pretty?
* Why would vampires need to be beautiful ''at all''? They're immortal, invulnerable, are faster, stronger, and have better senses than humans and have special powers. They're also often active in darkness. Vampires wouldn't need to be beautiful in order to catch prey or to reproduce, as an ugly vampire could certainly use that plethora of special powers to kill or turn humans just as well as the beautiful vampires, although he'd need a different prey-catching strategy than the Volturi's "[[DistractedByTheSexy send a leggy female vamp to lure tourists into the Evil Lair of Doom]]". So why did vampires evolve beauty? They don't need it!
** Maybe they evolved beauty first and it's vestigial.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Freezing, in a Tent and Otherwise]]
* In ''Eclipse'', when Edward and Bella are in the tent and Bella is slowly freezing to death (good god, why couldn't it have ended then?) Edward keeps offering to run her around outside to warm up. Now, I'm no expert, but how ''exactly'' is that supposed to warm her up? Now, if ''she'' were running, yes. It would get her heart pumping faster and it would get blood circulating again, warming her up somewhat, but if he was just going to run her around with her in his arms, she's not doing anything that would warm her up! She'd probably get colder because they'd be going at higher speeds in a blizzard.
** Because, I don't know if you noticed, but a lot of the plot is built simply around finding as many excuses as possible for Edward or Jacob to pick Bella up and carry her or for her to have to press her body against theirs; it's not based in logic, it's just there to facilitate the chased, "forbidden fruit" titillation that the story is built on and that the author was so absorbed with creating that she forgot to have things make sense.

* For that matter, why do the Cullens have all this camping and hiking gear, including DEHYDRATED FOOD, to maintain the illusion that they're extreme outdoors folk, but not have a [[http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1001559521 Portable Tent Heater?]] And when he realizes that Bella is freezing to death, why doesn't Edward run to town and get one? He can run 180mph, it would take him five minutes, tops.

* How can Eddie be constantly cold to the touch? Things are cold in real life because they are drawing heat from their surroundings; such as your hand. He'd have to dissipate the heat somehow in order to stay cold... or does magic not obey the Laws of Thermodynamics and I'm just reading too much into this?
** Well, things frozen in time would be cold. I think Meyers just didn't realize it would be colder than anything in the universe. (The temperature of liquid nitrogen, or if you prefer, zero degrees Kelvin.)
** I honestly don't think this of all things is impossible. Some metals and rocks feel cold to the touch because they're good conductors.
*** Upon reading this comment, I hereby declare Edward Cullen to be a lightning rod.
** I thought Edward was cold because, being a vampire, he's actually dead. One of the few things the Meyerpires have in common with your average idea of a vampire.
*** It does explain why his body temperature is below average (i.e. way below 36°C). It does not explain why he's apparently cold as ice and doesn't really seem to get warmer.
** Yeah, it's just a magic/supernatural thing that isn't the same as reality. You know, a {{trope}}.
*** Which would be fine, if Meyer didn't insist on using science to explain how her vampires worked.
** But as I recall, Eddie-kins kept Bella cool ''all night'' when they were at their honeymoon. Would she warm him up, instead of him keeping her cool?
*** Wouldn't that amount to the same? He draws heat from her, which means she loses heat and thereby keeps cool.
** Another issue: I think in the first book, during the meadow scene, there is actually some heat transfer from Bella to Edward after she's been lying against him, and they both comment on it.
** Well, you know how human bodies keep themselves at around 36°C so that the enzymes can function properly? What if Edward's body keeps itself at that temperature purposefully so that he can digest blood or something? Maybe that's the optimum temperature for the venom.
*** How? Does Edward sweat more than a human? Does he pant like a dog? Maybe one could argue that the sparkling mechanism reflects heat away from him as well as light, but Bella would have noticed that.

* For that matter, if Bella (at normal body temperature) was cold, then Jacob (who runs considerably hotter) should have been freezing his well-toned ass off. Anyone who's ever had a high fever can describe the phenomenon of kicking off the covers because they're insulating your above-average body heat, then shivering uncontrollably because the average room temp is a good thirty degrees colder than they are. Jacob might have felt toasty to Bella, but he should have been just as eager to cling to her for warmth, too.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Genetics]]
* Vampires have 25 chromosome base-pairs. Why would they have ANY more base-pairs than humans, since they don't reproduce by sex but by parasitic infection? How does the venom add chromosomes to their genome after they're infected? How are Bella and Edward able to reproduce, given that Bella can't contribute a gene for base-pair 23 and 24?

* Werewolves have 24 chromosome base-pairs. Since they're actually born werewolves, it's not a problem the way vampires acquiring extra chromosomes after being turned is, but why would a werewolf imprint on a human? The purpose of imprinting is to find the best mate for your genes...but werewolves shouldn't be able to reproduce with humans, since werewolves have an extra chromosome base-pair.

* Like addressed in the YMMV tab under UnfortunateImplications, Smeyer said that vampires will always turn white no matter what the ethnicity. Then why is Laurent black?
** RaceLift
[[/folder]]

[[folder:History]]
* Okay, Rosalie grew up during the Great Depression and although she saw people sleeping on the streets, she thought it was little more than a rumor. How is that even possible? I understand that she and her family were very rich, but how sheltered and oblivious do you need to be not realize that something bad was going on? Didn't she ever read newspapers, or listen to the radio, or hear gossip, or just go out and see tons of businesses closing down and long lies of people queuing up for jobs? I know she's supposed to be very shallow and self-absorbed, but isn't this stretching it a bit?
** Not to mention that her father was a ''banker''. Even if his bank didn't go under, he'd still be worried about runs on it and holdups and other such things.
** Blog/DasSporking suspects that Rosalie was supposed to be from RegencyEngland and transplanted to Depression-era USA so she could meet Ed and Carl.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Immortal Children]]

* So Immortal Children are bad and everything because they can't control their hunger and can kill and drink entire villages, and they did that when they were around. Why didn't their vampire parents/makers every, you know, physically restrain them and remove them from the vicinity? What were they doing while their precious vampire babies just went on killing sprees?
** Do you expect vampires to see humans as persons?
*** Carlisle said no one ''could'' control them. Not that they didn't want to. What about the Immortal Children made it so that they physically couldn't be restrained?
*** Newborn vampires are stronger and faster and more bloodthirsty than normal vampires. Taking all those things into account and how irrational children can be as humans already, it's not surprising to see why vampire children would be more than a handful. They couldn't be physically restrained simply because they are faster and stronger than older vampires and also possibly because they are significantly smaller as well so able to escape.
*** They're not so strong or fast that they can't be beaten by a smaller group of vampires and werewolves. And I don't care how strong or irrational they are; when you have a human toddler or young child, there are certain questions of biomechanics and leverage that you can't ignore if it comes to the act of restraint. Newborns aren't so exponentially stronger that it can make up for the difference in size and leverage and sheer percentage of the body that's muscle. The simple fact that an adult's arms and legs are longer than a child's means that there's a multiplicative leveraging effect on any strength application. Physics!
*** I'm fairly sure that what they meant by "No one could control them" was that even after their newborn phase, the immortal children couldn't be taught to obey their "parents" or restrain themselves. That’s the kind of control they were talking about. Anyway, what would physically restraining them help? Even if you don't keep it in mind that vampires in this universe can barely ''see'' blood without getting thirsty (if they saw the baby feeding on a human they probably would just think of going along), the "parent" would have to kill whoever wasn't killed by the babies, in order to eliminate witnesses, so the village would be all dead anyway. The point is, these children do not ''learn''. The parent restrains them once, but they will have to do it again and again, maybe dead village after dead village, until the Volturi decide to come after their asses anyway.
*** They were apparently controllable enough for the Vulturi to keep them alive for centuries, long enough for Carlisle to study them when he resided in Voltura.

* Carlilse says that when he was with the Volturri, he saw several Immortal Children that Aro was studying. This was centuries after the Volturri declared Immortal Children to be forbidden, and wiped them all out as well as those that had made them. So what was he still doing with Immortal Children centuries later? Hadn't he already studied them, found them to be unreasonable and uncontrollable, and ordered their destruction? What more was he hoping to learn about them? What more WAS there to learn about them?
** Perhaps he was looking for a way to take them under control?
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Imprinting]]

* Am I the only one who actually pities imprinting wolves more than their imprintees, in some ways? I mean, the very nature of imprinting means that they will do whatever the girl wants from them, right? I am assuming here that Sam attacking Emily is an aberration caused by lack of control/emotional distress, since it doesn't seem to be a common issue. But my thinking here is that the imprintees have a choice. Yes, Claire and Nessie will in theory be groomed to love Quil and Jacob, but it might not end that way. They might always see the two guys as parental figures or friends. They can ''choose'', the wolves who imprint on them are, by the nature of imprinting, no longer in control of their lives. They have lost their free will. It bothers me that no one else seems to notice this; all the horror is saved for the imprintees' possible fates. Not saying that shouldn't be horrifying, but it's not the only scary part here. Maybe Leah's lucky in some ways that if she finds a new love, both of them will be able to enter into a relationship without any coercion whatsoever.
** Agreed, you're definitely not the only one. It's a horrible system all around, but it IS worse for the imprinters. It would be better if the imprinter could be free of the connection if the imprintee chose someone else.
*** Imprinting sounds like an addiction to me. Maybe it's how Meyer expresses that she wishes she had more power over the men in her life.
** I also thought it was kind of ''funny'' that Jacob originally talks about imprinting with disgust and disdain but then, when it comes time for him to imprint on Bella and Edwards perfect, wondrous, miracle baby he's not only totally ok with it, but completely willing and enthusiastic. I guess, since Renesmee inherited MarySue genes from both parents, Jacob had no choice but to love her, the internal logic of the story would not have allowed it to be otherwise.
*** Are Mary Sue genes recessive?
*** He was '''brainwashed''' to be enthusiastic.
** http://twispitefic.livejournal.com/35504.html you guys are going to love this.


* God help me, I can't believe this even occurred to me, but... Jacob is supposedly obsessed with Bella because his werewolfy imprinting senses knew that one of her ovum would apparently become his imprint-ee. Since we have obviously established vampire men make sperm (I'll skip the rant about men being "unchanging" and how spermogenesis actually works)... why isn't Jacob equally obsessed with EDWARD'S little spermies? I mean they have 23 chromosomes that Bella's egg does, so... I'm just gonna... stop here. I am not responsible for any fanfics this piece of Fridge Logic produces.
** Ho Yay, anyone?
** Males produce sperm throughout their life (or unlife in this case). Females are born with all the eggs they will ever have.
*** So many questions follow this line of thinking. If Jacob was going to imprint on that one particular egg, what would have happened to his interest in Bella if she'd already lost that egg or if she HADN'T had a baby out of that egg? Furthermore, what would have happened if the baby HAD been an Edward Jr instead of Renesmee?
*** If they're 'unchanging', and 'like stone', THEN HOW THE FRIGGIN' HELL DOES EDWARD STILL PRODUCE SPERM? I understand that the female Meyerpires can't have kids because their menstrual cycle is frozen, so wouldn't the male vampire's ability to make sperm stop too? And then there are all the issues of how Edward impregnates Bella... [as seen above]
*** If Jacob would have imprinted on the child that egg became no matter who the father was, as his lack of obsession with Edward implies, then what if his obsession with Bella had led to HIM having a child with her? It's quite likely that they would have ended up together if Edward hadn't existed, and there was that bit in Breaking Dawn where Edward tried to get Jacob to get Bella to abort Renesmee and have Jacob's puppies instead. It could easily have ended up being his OWN sperm that fused with that particular egg. Was the imprinting magic trying to make him have a daughter with Bella so he could imprint on his own daughter?
*** I don't think a wolf can imprint on their own child. The suggestion is that imprinting happens to keep the wolf gene being passed down - the more vampires around, the more imprinting will happen because their bodies think they will need more wolves and are choosing the best women to birth them. In that sense, Jacob imprinting on his daugher makes less sense. If he did end up procreating with an adult Renesmee, their child would not only have the wolf gene, but would have a quarter of vampire genes, which means they'd have supernatural strengths from both sides. It only makes sense that a half-vampire that can have children would produce the strongest wolves yet.
*** We don't need to hear about the sperm thing anymore, it's already been addressed further up. Anyway, my theory is that he would imprint on a female only (since it's around to further the species); furthermore it could only be an imprinting on the eggs (as said above). However, to elaborate on that point, it could be he wanted those eggs in his gene pool, meaning he wants to either impregnate the eggs directly, or through the child that came from one. If he imprinted on the eggs then he wouldn't imprint on Bella, but would on Renesmee (or whatever her name is).
*** It's possible that ingested blood could somehow travel through a vampire's rearranged organs and act as substitute semen, thawing the long-frozen sperm and carrying it out of the body.
** It's probably a destiny thing. Jacob only imprinted on that egg cause it was destined to be a female, and not his own daughter, etc. One might as well ask what would have happened if Emily became infertile after Sam imprinted on her, and whether that would undo the imprinting etc. And I doubt Meyer put that much thought into why Jacob isn't attracted to Edward, it's probably just cause Bella's a girl.

* I don't get the rules of imprinting: Sam imprinted on Emily at first eye contact after a long time (assuming he met her before as his then-girlfriend's cousin); Jared imprinted on a girl in his class after randomly looking at her for the millionth time; but Jacob imprinted with a foetus even BEFORE eye contact was needed? He said it himself that Renesmee was the reason why he and Bella couldn't keep away from each other before the birth!

* If the object of a werewolf's imprinting were to become a vampire, would the werewolf reject his imprintee? Canon makes out that they truly hate each other, smell awful to the other, and have a biological impulse to kill is triggered. But then ''Breaking Dawn'' has Jacob imprint on a half-vampire and be totally cool with it? WHAT IS THE LOGIC?
** Well, half-vampires are inexplicably rather different from full vampires. The temperature and the smell are different, for example. Bella describes Renesmee as smelling halfway between the best food in the world (human) and the most beautiful perfume in the world (vampire). Presumably she smells a bit off to Jacob but not to the point of burning his nose like a full vampire.
** AuthorsSavingThrow. Meyer needed SOME way of keeping Jacob as Bella's best friend.
** I personally think the imprint would be broken. Imprinting was described as a way of getting the best werewolf genes for the next generation, and so if the girl became a vampire (Leah being the only female werewolf, so most imprintees would be female) then she would no longer be able to breed and the need for an imprint would be gone. That's just what I think would happen though
** There have been FanFics about that, generally it doesn't end well. No official explanation is available.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Manipulation, Abuse, and Control]]
* Why is it considered okay for Edward to claim he's holding off on sex for Bella's own good? Respecting someone's wishes makes sense, but if they say it's for your own good, they are trying to control you.
** Edward's reasons to not have sex are both to protect Bella from physical harm, to protect her soul and because that is the only "sin" HE has not committed. He is not withholding sex only for her sake but his too.
*** Except that he continues to do this after they're already married and already had sex. If it's breaking bones and causing her to lose consciousness, then yeah, I would say his withholding it actually is for her own good for once.
*** The reason he started withholding it again after they were married was because he ended up giving her significant bruising all over her body during their first time. He didn't want to risk hurting her again, or possibly worse, which is why he initially wasn't going to have sex with her again until she was a vampire and could handle it without injury.
*** Then the question becomes "why don't they break up if they want two different things?" i.e. a sexual relationship and a safe relationship.
*** They wanted the same things just at different times. Relationship take work and people resolve this issues everyday. I want to wait for X or Y to happen before we have sex is not a deal-breaker for people in love and committed.


* In ''New Moon," why did Jacob answer the phone at Bella's house? I tend not to answer other peoples' phones unless they give me permission. And for that matter, why did Edward call the Swann's house landline? Does Bella not have a cellphone? A teenage girl in 2009 who didn't own a cellphone? And why did Edward ask to speak to Charlie, instead of Bella? Yeah, I know he had been told that Bella was dead per Alice's vision, but the entire point of calling is to confirm it, right? So why not ask for Bella?

* Jacob's CharacterDerailment: how could he grow from a friendly nice guy into a total rapist in ''Eclipse''? Is it just a way to deal with the LoveTriangle?
** He started to behave like a JerkAss the moment Edward came back on ''New Moon''. It's not character derailment; it is Jacob getting jealous and hating Edward. The girl he loves is in love with the enemy. It would be Character derailment only if it happened offscreen and for no good reason.
** Except that he suddenly went from nice guy to prick. Sure, jealousy can play a part, but it doesn't fully explain the assault. And if it was jealousy, then how could he suddenly be okay with ending up with their daughter?
** It's an AuthorsSavingThrow. Meyer had written both characters as suitable matches for Bella (in her mind), so there was no clear reason for her (Bella) to choose one over the other. If Bella had just arbitrarily picked Edward, it would make her seem like a jerk for Breaking Jacob's heart. ''BUT'' If Jacob does something difinitive that removes him from the running, Bella can choose Edward as the "clearly better choice".
** Actually, Jacob becomes a total jerkass in ''Eclipse'' in order to ''facilitate'' the LoveTriangle. Meyer found that readers preferred the Jacob/Bella pairing, so she decided to make Jacob a "better" love interest so as to be more worthy of Bella's love. In her eyes, that means making him exactly the same as the "perfect" Edward, i.e., a manipulative jerkass.
*** Nope he told Charlie about the bikes to keep Bella from her and when Mike was at the movie theater he was about to jump him too. He was only nice when he though Bella was going to choose him once he had competition he showed his true colors.
** He turned a {{Jerkass}} when he started turning into a werewolf. It may be something genetic, frustrating confusion about what is happening to him, or simple adolescence.

* In ''New Moon'' (the movie anyway; I can't remember exactly how it happened in the book) Edward takes Bella to the middle of the woods, then proceeds to dump her. He drags her all the way out just to do that, and she accepts him back later like nothing happened? Shouldn't he constantly be having to make it up to her?
** Well, he did offer to beg for forgiveness. It's not his fault that Bella decided to just take him back. And, anyways, Edward spent all of ''Eclipse'' punishing himself for it--it would have been kinda cruel of Bella to kick him when he was down.
*** Except that he did a bunch of other things that deserved some serious groveling. Like removing the engine from her car. Coerced her into marriage. Tried to isolate her from her friends. Yeah, maybe it would have been cruel of Bella to not accept him back, but given all the other stuff he's done, it'd hardly be kicking him while he's down.
*** Bella was no coerced but convinced that the best way to spent the eternity was as a married vampire like everyone else in the Cullen household. Coercing will imply she had no choice she could had broke up with him when she felt like it or just have a chaste relationship for the rest of her life with him. Jacob was not a friend but a romantic rival and a wannabe poacher. He always encouraged her to spent time with the other friends and he apologize for the engine incident.
*** At the risk of nit-picking, it wouldn't take a whole hell of a lot of effort to convince Bella to ignore her friends. She was doing plenty of that on her own.
** Well, in the book, it's not as simple as that, though not in the way you mean. In the book, when she gets Edward back, she assumes she's dreaming and Edward has to practically beat her about the head to convince her he's real. There's still absolutely no period of "How the fuck could you do that to me!?!"
** At the end of New Moon, when Edward insists that he could never stop loving Bella, he berates her for believing that he had fallen out of love with her. In other words, rather than conceding Edward had actually done something deceitful and dishonest, he (and by extension, Meyer) shifts the blame for Bella's depression onto ''Bella herself'' for trusting ''the man she "loved"'' to be honest with her.
*** With the entire break-up, one would think that someone [[InformedAbility supposedly]] as smart as Bella is should think "He spent all of our relationship saying how much he loved me and how he'd never leave, then he suddenly dumps me while saying he can find distractions so he won't think of me anymore. Either he was lying about all the times he loved me, making him a pretty big jerk, or he's lying now and trying to leave me for some noble reason." (Also adding to the insanity is that Bella is into Austen and the like. In all of those books, didn't anyone ''ever'' pull that same "I'm breaking up with my love to protect them" ploy? One would also think that Alice would just stop with the song-and-dance routine and ''tell'' Bella what happened, when she comes by at the end. (Yes, Edward probably told her not to tell, but you'd think Alice would tell anyway when she suspected that the breakup made Bella ''suicidal''.)
*** In the case of Alice she is so immerse in her powers that she knows he will eventually come back and everything will be okay at that point. So she doesn't think short cutting the future is necessary. Alice is cute but she could had used present is important too talk from the other Cullens.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:The Masquerade]]

* How do the Volturi keep their existence a secret? In the end of ''New Moon'', we see how they routinely feed. Heidi goes out and collects a bunch of tourists and leads them down for the vampires to feed upon. The group is described as numbering 'forty or more'. In 'Breaking Dawn', Edward goes 17 days between feedings. Edward is specifically mentioned as a paragon of self control, but we'll use him as our baseline anyway. That means, every 17 days or so, Heidi goes out and collects 40 people. Over the course of a year, that means that 900 or more people go missing. Even if we grant that Heidi spreads out her collection all across Italy, that would still almost double the number of people that go missing in Italy every year in the real world.
** The group they fed on in ''New Moon'' may have been larger than usual because of the festival (bunch of tourists and I'm sure the Volturi love the irony of killing 40 humans on the day of celebrating the removal of vampires from the city).

* James does not own shoes, let alone a photo ID and major credit card. But when Jasper, Alice, and Bella are hiding out in Phoenix, they learn from Edward that James flew down to Arizona from Washington state. How? How did he buy a ticket and get on an airplane looking like a dangerous dirty hobo? What did he pay for it with? How did he get through a security screening? How did he get through the gate without a photo ID in a post 9-11 American airport?
** He probably hid in the luggage compartment.
*** How did he know which luggage compartment to get into? Maybe this is viable, I have no idea what an airport luggage processing area looks like. But I bet James doesn't either. So how would he know how to do this in the first place?
*** I suppose he could have followed the suitcase of someone who was flying to Phoenix, which he could have overheard with his super hearing.

* So the vampires from Italy (I can't remember their names) are obsessed with keeping vampires a secret from humans. Why? Twilight's vampires are practically impossible to kill. Think about it: They're immune to sunlight, crazy strong, fast and agile, can only be killed by having their head ripped off and their remains set on fire. (at least that's what I understood from film #1, though it seems to have changed by the third one) On top of that, they have all those psychic powers and can make people fall in love with them at first sight. Even if the entire human race decided to try to wipe them out, the vamps would still mop the floor with us. Why bother keeping it a secret? Why not just take over? (or more conservatively, just secede and for an independent country of their own?)
** ''Superior Numbers''. Also, most of human history has involved us going up against predators superior to us in almost every single way and usually driving them to extinction. The vampire's powers really only work against threats they know are coming and can see. Will super speed and glamour protect you from an ICBM fired from the other side of the world? A single W56 warhead would completely incinerate Montepulciano. A Minuteman III can carry three of those warheads. The US currently has over four hundred of them. That's just US land based missiles, ignoring the SLBMs and assorted other nasties. There would be a ''lot'' of casualties, but they would be exterminated in the end.
*** Theoretically yes, that would work, though apparently WordOfGod said that a vampire could outrun the blast radius of a missile. But that doesn't explain why the "enslave all humans" decision didn't come about back in the Middle Ages, long before nuclear weapons or warheads.
*** In-universe, because it's not vampire nature. Most of the human-eating vampires are hedonistic and unlikely to put that much effort into subjugating humans when they could just move somewhere else once the cattle gets to uppity. Bella does find out some accurate vampire info off Google, so there is knowledge of vampires out there. It was probably just easier for vampires to be a secret and only recently has humanity become an actual threat to them, necessitating tighter security. Out of universe, Meyer plays fast and loose with prexisting vampire lore. She just kept the "vampires stay secret" bits despite there not being much of a reason for them to need it.
** As for why vampires don't just take over, they did at some point in history. Both the Egyptian and Romanian vampires ruled openly in this like empire of blood thing where the humans were their slaves and the vampires were worshiped as gods. The Volturi put a stop to that by insisting that vampires hide themselves from humans, and wiped out the Egyptian and Romanians.

* Forks should be more densely populated by vampires. From my knowledge(forgive me if this isn't true or has been covered already in the books as it has been a while since I've fully re-read the series)the reason the Cullen coven is even in Forks is because of the cloud coverage allowing them to go outside without sparkling. If Forks is the only suitable place for them to be outside, wouldn't that mean that there are other vampires roaming around in other parts of the world just sparkling and alerting humans everywhere that "Hey, these guys aren't normal/have a problem with some industrial grade body glitter"? Aside from those in Alaska where I would assume not many people are in areas that vampires live even though only the Denali coven has been mentioned, where are the other vampires and how can they just be walking around and why haven't the Cullens figured out how to do this? Like honestly, wasn't Carlisle with the Volturi? Shouldn't he, if not anyone else, know how to live amongst humans? And if they sparkle due to sunlight hitting their skin, why aren't vampires sparkling everywhere they happen to be that IS NOT total darkness? Light is light whether it came from the sun or not or does the sun have magical make-all-the-vampires-sparkle in Twilightverse type power?

* How would Edward sparkling in public cause people to realize he's a vampire?
** In general, it would probably just tell them something was off about him. I'd be more afraid about vivisection than being shredded and burned, but then again I haven't been an angsty, sworn-to-secrecy vampire for the last century. It's a lot more unusual than it appeared in the first film's SpecialEffectsFailure.
** For that matter, if a divinely beautiful, sparkling man showed up in a town holding a celebration for a saint, wouldn't people think he was an angel and it was a sign from God or something?
** Or that he had just used too much body glitter. Lets keep in mind that he was going to reveal himself during a festival. Lots of people dress or act extravagantly at celebrations. The likelihood is that they would have taken him to be one of those types. But all in all, it's still better than his original plan of slaughtering a bunch of innocent people just to force the Volturi into assisting in his suicide.
** If i remember correctly, its stated in the book that the festival was to celebrate the people of the town ousting the vampire population that used to live there. It would make sense that a town which celebrates this every year would have a few more legends about vampires than normal, and therefore that a super-sparkly person would be recognised for what they truly were, which would force the Volturi to kill him before this could happen.
*** Actually, the festival celebrates "St. Marcus" (Marcus of the Volturi) "getting rid of the vampires", which is pretty much stated to be him tricking those silly, superstitious humans. Edward explicitly states that Marcus pretended to use things like garlic and holy water, which don't really affect Meyer's vampires, which is where the myth that they drive off vampires is supposed to be from. There's no reason at all for the people of the town to be let in on the actual nature of the vampires, especially since Marcus wanted to keep them in the dark on the matter.
** If the town's residents actually ''knew'' vampires sparkled, wouldn't they just assume the sparkly guy is an actor ''playing the part'' of a vampire as part of the festival?
*** The sparkling is supposed to be supernatural looking. It would be recognized as something beyond human understanding. From him showing up the world is not what it seems to having their own History Channel special was a matter of seconds.
*** But the vampires aren't supernatural. They're supposed to be science-based. So how would their sparkling (which, according to Meyer, is caused in a way similar to a disco ball) look any different than light reacting under natural causes under similar scenarios?

* What was the point of the Volturi enforcing the {{Masquerade}} if there was no way for humans to mount a suitable defense against humans until recently? Vampires have to be ripped apart and burned to kill them in this continuity, and it is shown time and again that humans lack the ability to do so, or at least haven't been able to until the last 100 years or so. What was the point of keeping the vampires hidden when the humans couldn't possibly stop them?

* And yet another plot hole - it was implied in ''Breaking Dawn'' that Tanya and her sisters usually killed the men that they slept with. And no one notices that men go off to some remote part of Alaska and are never heard from again? In this day and age? Not to mention the fact that it sort of undermines their clan being "good" vampires for abstaining from human blood, since they're still providing death by screwing (arguably a more pleasant way to die, but still...)
** Actually, that was long time ago. They didn't live in Alaska all the time, that was a settlement they got after they became vegetarian and they haven't killed men for at least as long as Carlisle has known them. They are good "reformed" vegetarian vampires.
** People disappear in Alaska all the time. Yes, even in this day and age. Heck, it happened to the father of one of the ''Series/DeadliestCatch'' crew. (And that may not even have been IN Alaska; I don't recall.) If you wanted to take someone somewhere to 'disappear' them and make sure not only they weren't found, but no one was able to find the bodies, it's pretty much the ideal place to do it.
** If you're talking about Jake Anderson's dad he disappeared in Washington (they found his remains at the end of a logging road). The captains also recalled that in the bad old days a bad crew member could "disappear" into the sea, just one of many, ''many'' casualties, though I don't know if the Denali clan's powers included anything that would allow them to dump their victims in the Bering Sea.


* For that matter how do they get their Kaleidoscope Eyes past everyone?
-->'''Jessica/Angela/Mike/Tyler''': Hey Edward.
-->'''Edward''': What?
-->'''Jessica''': Weren't your eyes yellow this morning?
-->'''Edward''': No.
-->'''Jessica''': Yes they were, I saw them. Angela, Mike, and Tyler say them. All of our teachers saw them!
-->'''Edward''': No they weren't.
** Its stated that they didn't got close to humans before Bella entered Forks. Not to mention that they could have told everyone that sometimes they use contacts. Edward just didn’t think of that because he was too busy feeling the "urges he never felt before on a century." People often miss that Edward became a big dork around Bella.

* If sparkling is such a threat, why can't they put on concealer, face paint, foundation, etc.?
** Their skin would "eat" this human products I'm sure Rosalie would had found a way to use make up if she could get away with it.
** How do, to quote Meyer, "cells with a singular facet of crystal with vampire venom lubrication," "eat" makeup? If venom is acidic, and [[{{Squick}} Edward inseminates Bella with venom]], [[BodyHorror injects Bella with it]], and [[NightmareFuel every vampire on EARTH is injected with it THROUGH TEETH]]... [[FridgeHorror AAAHHHH!!]]
** The venom destroyed Bella's contacts, so it looks like it applies to inorganic material (maybe not even all of them or on the same way), but when in contact with human living blood cells it transforms them, or when the venom that is mixed with sperm is transformed into vampire sperm. So that one shouldn't be acid to make sure that in the hypothetical case it finds a human egg it fertilizes it, instead of destroying it. Of course I'm not saying is perfect science I'm speculating how it works according to the events of the books.
*** If it's powerful enough to dissolve make-up and eat through contact lenses then ''how do they wear clothes?!''
*** The biggest problem with that, though, is she should have just been vamped from the sex. No way sex that rough didn't provide some vaginal tearing, and if kissing open-mouth was too dangerous for fear of getting vamped, sex should definitely be. I think the possibility of Edward tearing Bella a bit is a lot more likely than her having a nasty case of gingivitis.
*** Well if Bella was properly lubricating, even if the sex left her bruised it doesn't mean her lady parts are going to get torn up. (Vaginas are very elastic--a baby comes out of it, after all!) Also, I don't think Edward knew at the time that his gentleman parts had also venom; he was working under the impression that his saliva was the only poisonous part of him (ha so going down on Bella for the first time). It looks like they hadn't really researched vampirism at large given that they didn't know about the hybrids, not even the Volturi that are more ancient than the Cullens.
*** But they know that the eyes contain venom as well. And yeah, the vagina is elastic, but extremely rough sex will cause at least microscopic tears in the vaginal canal. If the sex was enough to leaves bruises, it was enough to leave tears.
*** Bella was a virgin. So was Edward, so I doubt either of them knew anything about lube. Even if they did, if her hymen was intact at the time, even very gentle sex would have torn that.
*** Not everyone is born with a hymen.
*** And most hymens are more of ring. If a hymen completely covers the vaginal opening, you usually have to have surgery because it won't allow out menstrual blood. Also, it's very common for hymens to gradually wear away from sports, bike riding, tampon use, and self-exploration. Tearing during sex is a sign of improper lubrication and going too fast, generally, virgin or not.
*** I assume that there's different types of fluid in the vampires with different levels of potency. Also, ''sperm doesn't enter your bloodstream''.
*** Actually, some of the fluids and stuff in semen CAN enter the bloodstream through the vaginal walls. That's how STIs spread.
*** True. Flesh isn't absorbent tissue for nothing. I'm just assuming that neither was a virgin or that Edward was too small to stretch her, and then all that's left is how venom could be neither acidic nor alkaline enough to dissolve all of Bella's ova, yet still hurt like fucking hell when it enters the blood stream.

* The tourists taken in by the bad vampires in Rome just disappear? What about their families, what about the investigations that would have to be done in order to find out why so many groups of people keep disappearing!
** The Volturi all have magical powers. Maybe they can do really good cover-ups.
** They're humans. Apparently they're not worth any care or concern from the supernatural beings or important people. And Meyer seems to believe that regular humans are too stupid to figure out certain things. Like that tourists tend to disappear in this one area quite frequently. Or that a guy just left a huge dent in a runaway van by stopping it with his bare hands and came out with no injuries to speak of. Or that those Cullen kids have missed half of the school year.
*** *sighs* Amazingly Meyer actually wrote an explanation if you guys bothered to at least look at the Twilight wiki before complaining (not that I blame you considering the material). They have a vampire who can make anyone so attracted to her they'll do whatever she says and follow her for however long it takes. So she goes very, very, ''very'' far away, gets a good group of people (probably from different sources to leave less of a link) and then guides them all the way back to the castle to die. So even if people start investigating the disappearances, they'll aways be looking several kilometres in the wrong direction.
*** And like most of what she says, the explanation makes little sense. This is from the same woman who said an island could exist off the west coast of Brazil. For all we know, "very far away" could mean the next block over. To that effect, searches tend to cover a fairly wide area. It doesn't matter how attractive a person is, most people are really only able to travel so far, so she'd have to remain within a certain distance of the end location. And given how often people are being led to the castle and their doom, eventually, people are going to pick up on the fact that there are groups of people entering a building and none of them come out or ever seen again.
*** 1) Supernatural attractiveness, keeping peple from thinking clearly. 2) She could have chartered a bus or a van. 3) The former is not doing her homework, the latter is stating that they don't hunt within their city or the surronding area to avoid suspicion. Much further than the next block. 3) It's a castle with secret entrances, surely at least one would be in a spot where nobody would notice people entering it (due to it being secret and hidden).
*** People disappear in the world daily. Doesn't really need that much explanation if you read the news.
*** It must be a really well hidden secret entrance if no one notices chartered buses pulling up to it regularly.
*** The trouble is, if a vast number of people continuously disappear in a specific location, people are going to get suspicious, or at the very least, stop going there. Even if people don't know ''exactly'' where the tourists are disappearing to, family and friends are surely going to know that "Hey, my friend/child/parent/sibling/spouse went on a vacation to Volterra and never came back. I'll tell the police as much". Next thing you know, the police have several decades worth of reports of missing people in the area (and that would be mass disappearances, considering that people are snatched in groups). And if the police start going missing while investigating Volterra, this is when the big guns are pulled out to check things out. In short, Aro would be causing exactly what he insisted must never happen.

* Okay, so depressed Edward wants to rip open his shirt and sparkle in public, thus revealing the existence of vampires and goading the Volturi into killing him. It's sort of a roundabout and melodramatic way to commit suicide, but whatever. What I want to know is this: ''who the hell is going to look at someone glittery and think 'vampire'?'' I mean, ''seriously'', if I saw some guy glittering in the sunlight, I'd think he had too much of a thing for body glitter. Vampires aren't exactly noted in lore for their sparkliness, so why would the Volturi (or Edward) find the idea of him ~sparkling~ so terrible? He'd just look like some stoned kid with leftover rave herpes (i.e., glitter). No average person is going to look at some prismatic teenager and go, "Gasp! He's sparkly, he must be a ''vampire'', guys!" They'd probably be more likely to ask him how much he had to drink before he went crawling through a glitter factory.
** This is a fair complaint in the movie, where Edward's "Look" can easily be achieved with enough glitter lotion. But bear in the mind that in the book, Edward didn't just sparkle. He was like a human diamond that you could use to blind people in the street if you wanted to. No cosmetic products can produce the same results, so even if they don't realize that he's a vampire, they're going to be elbowing their buddies going "Dude, that guy is sparkling, WTF?" which is more attention than they Volturi want. His choice of suicide makes more sense in the book as well. The only way to kill a vampire is to tear it apart and set it on fire. The only thing strong enough to pull a vampire apart is a werewolf or another vampire. Edward didn't know the wolves were around again, his family clearly wasn't going to kill him, and the whole "kill it with fire" aspect made it impossible, or at least really hard to do it himself. The easiest way to find other vampires was to go find the Volturi. It was also said, or at least implied (I think, it's been awhile since I read the books) that he tried just explaining his reasons for wanting to die and asking them to kill him, but they said no, which was why he resorted to making a scene.
*** Then why didn't he just douse himself with gas and drop a match? That's really not that hard.
*** I always assumed that he couldn't do that. Vampires, I believe, had to be ripped apart into multiple pieces and then burned to death. If a vampire attempted that, they'd regenerate too quickly for them to effectively kill themselves.
*** So he could have gone and aggravated a vampire he didn't know and have it rip him apart. WordOfGod has that most vampires are vicious and competitive.
*** Not the case. The Romanian coven died to regular arson, and their physical prowess and durability outranked the Cullens. By the description given by Meyer, Edward could have killed himself with a match(no gasoline needed). His very skin is flammable, and even if it wasn't, he could just light the inside of his mouth on fire.
*** That would involve tracking down another vampire. Not to mention that the other vampire could just rip him apart but not burn him, leaving him conscious in a few dozen pieces.
*** So why can't Edward rip ''himself'' in several places. Even if he regenerated impossibly fast (which is already stretching things, seeing as we see examples in the book of him ''moving faster than the human eye can detect''), what's stopping him from actually tearing his entire arm off? You can't even say that he'd somehow regrow an entire arm before he could light himself ablaze, because ''The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner'' shows vampires who have body parts ripped entirely off, and they need to manually stick them back on (and in ''Eclipse'', Riley goes for much of the battle one-armed, after Edward rips one off of him).
*** Can you rip your own arm with your own force? I think no one can hence why Edward needs help.
*** I'm going to have to call bullshit on the, only can be torn apart by the strength of a vamp or a werewolf. There are crazy strong machinery that are used from everything from construction to mining. I haven't read the books, but assuming that vampires and werewolves in Meyer's little story are not as physically strong as freakin' Superman, then I don't know why Edward can't run around with his super speed, find some heavy machinery. Light himself on fire with gasoline, get torn apart, then let his already burning body finish him off once he's been torn into pieces.
*** Furthermore, if you saw someone glittering more than it seemed likely that you could do just with body glitter, you wouldn't think "What's that? Can't be glitter. Is it that guy's ''skin??''" You'd think "Wow! That guy's got some awesome body glitter! I didn't know body glitter could sparkle so well!" When a person's wondering why somebody's sparkling, they won't exclude the possibility that it's body glitter, because why should they? If they're open-minded enough to believe that Edward's a supernatural being of some kind, they're ''definitely'' also open-minded enough to believe that there's body glitter that sparkles a lot more than the regular stuff.
*** I got the impression that Edwards plan relied more on just angering the Volturi, rather than actually revealing to anyone that he's a vampire. If he really wanted to cause a huge scene at that point, he could jump off a building to show that he's almost indestructible or just light himself on fire and regenerate. The sparkling wasn't a reveal, it was a warning to the Volturie that 'This is just the beginning, I'm going to cause problems, I'm going to piss you off, and you'll have to kill me.'

* Which leads to another issue - the Cullens left Forks in ''New Moon'' partly because of the Jasper incident but also because they apparently had been there too long and would start to raise suspicions. At the end of the book, they all come back like it's nothing. No one questions this and apparently there's no issue with Carlisle going back to work or Alice and Edward starting up at school again.
** It's been a while since I read the book, but I thought that was just Edward straight-up lying to Bella (again).
** Which still leaves the question of how the Cullens were able to reclaim their house, property, job, and places at school, even though they were gone for months, with no intention of returning.
*** They didn't sold the house they never do. It was abandoned for the moment and they probably planned to come back in the next century or two. Esme seems to be freelancer and Carlisle was the best doctor they could get. They probably have a way to leave a place quickly without a lot of mess behind so is probably easy to undo too.
** Actually, to Stephenie Meyer's credit, she did seem to grasp that writing Bella's pregnancy from Bella's POV was not a good idea. Other than that, though...

* Bella becomes a vampire. Why are we not told how her human friends and family take this or her crazy pregnancy?
** Bella didn't really seem to care all the much for her human "friends" she seemed, at best, to tolerate having them around because that was slightly better than being alone (all the while cringing at their every imperfection), she was probably thrilled to have an excuse to never have to put up with them again.
** Well we do see her dad's reaction: he basically just pretends it's not happening, saying he doesn't want to know any details. As for her friends, she wasn't really planning on ever seeing them (or her mother) again, bless her heart. Although that's going to be kind of hard considering that they still live in the same town and Esme built them a little fairy tale cottage and everything. And that Carlisle was having trouble passing for 30 at his job by the second book...
*** Not to mention the issue of how the Cullens and Bella were prime gossip-bait. Surely it would only be a matter of time before Jessica came pounding on the door to visit for the next holiday and see how things were going.
** Basically, Bella doesn't care about her human friends. Given her portrayal of them and her general "anti-human" stance, it's pretty clear that Meyer doesn't like the normal, non-special human characters. They're only there to emphasize how special and different Bella is.
*** They were mostly acquaintances. Bella meet them while transitioning from mom's house to college and happened to stumble upon the Cullens. I'm sure neither of them is pining after 'The police chief's daughter from Arizona' If Jessica wonders is probably thinking what a lucky bitch she was to snag the hot rich guy. People really act like this were her childhood friends. They were friendly towards her and hang out with her because it was easy. Neither of them were sharing deep secrets or their deepest desires with her.

* [[http://www.springhole.net/writing/plotholes-in-vampire-fiction.htm It was mentioned before on the Web]], but I think this matter fits here: ''how are "vegetarian" vampires going under the radar of animal rights group and US forest service?''\\
Let's keep the assumption from up there, that Edward's 17 day between feeding is family's average. That means that each vampire hunts down 21 animals per year, which equals 147 animals per year for entire family. Meaning that for five years Cullens are in one place, there would be 735 dead animals. That's not a small number. Forest service is bound to investigate it, and cross-reference this with cases from all over the country... So after about fifteen years (FS records surely go further than that) they would notice that just after one animal slaughter ends, another begins in another place. They would see who was at the places when this took place, and they'd surely notice the family of seven that seems to be present in the vicinity of slaughter every single time...
** Not just that, but the Cullens take out top-tier predators and large omnivores such as black bears and mountain lions. That's gotta have far-reaching ecological implications for the regions where they hunt.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Math, Numbers, Geography, and Distance]]

* Why do the Romanian vampires refer to the Volturi as ''Italian scum''? They’re not Italian. They just happen to live in Italy now. Aro and his company are technically Etruscan. They set up shop in 1,000 B.C. in the Etruscan city of Velathri, which then became Volterra. But okay, fine. Maybe they kept themselves quiet while they gathered their strength. However, they exploded onto the scene with the conquering of the Romanian coven, and before they did that, the Romanians definitely knew they existed because the Volturi tried diplomacy first...during the decline of the ''Roman Empire''. If they’d been sitting very close to the heart of the Roman Empire for all of these years and then came over and kicked the Romanians’ asses, they would not be the Italian scum. They’d be the Roman scum.
** [[OlderThanTheyThink The Romans called that whole area Italia.]] Yes, it might be more likely for the Romanians to call them Roman or Etruscan, but it's not technically incorrect - and maybe they've just moved with the times. It's not like they're still speaking Dacian.
*** No, Italia only referred to what is now Southern Italy (Bruttium and Calabria). Volterra is in Tuscany, not the southern portion of the peninsula. It wasn't until the time of Augustus that 'Italia' referred to the entire peninsula all the way to the Alps. That's a very small window for the Romanian vampires to have picked up the habit, especially if you argue that all vampires except the Cullens are slow to adapt to human trends.
** And for that matter, why are they called the Romanian vampires? There was no Romania when they were around and in their empire — they were Dacian.

* This has bothered me for years now: Meyer and Twilight lexicon both claim that Twilight takes place in 2005; but when I read Twilight, Edward seemed very adamant that he was both a) born in 1901, and b) at that time 107 years old. This would imply that Twilight actually took place in 2009, since twilightlexicon also claims that he was born in June. Alternatively it would imply that Meyer can't even do basic math. Which is it?
** I'm inclined to believe the latter.
** Given that all of Meyer's defenses amout to "it's fiction", it seems likely she just made up all the numbers without thinking math figured into it.

* How does Island Esmee make any kind of sense? Warm, blue waters, palm trees and rainforests, white, sandy beaches, dolphins, porpoises, and parrots, and coves and a rocky peak formed by a dead volcano. Impossible. Nothing like that exists off the coast of Brazil. All of the islands off the coast of Brazil are well documented and well explored, and the climate and ocean currents don't exist to allow the kind of tropic paradise described. Why not set the island at an unspecified place in the South Pacific, where those kinds of features actually exist?
** Where would you find Native Americans to stutter about vampire legends to set up Safrina and Nahuel, in the South Pacific?
** I feel like the problem is less the idea of a tropical island existing off the west coast of Brazil and more the fact that Brazil doesn't even have a west coast for a tropical island to be off of in the first place.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Pregnancy Shenanigans]]

* Why would Bella's pregnancy 'naturally' terminate the way Edward describes to Jacob; with the fetus chewing its way out of its mother and killing her in the process? Yes, that does happen in the world. Some kinds of sea louse give birth that way, and so does the jewel wasp. But those are not species where maternal care for the young is part of the life cycle. In almost all mammalian species, the mother cares for and protect the young until they can survive on their own. Vampire hybrids are not self-sufficient at birth. Sure, they have hyper-intelligence and they grow very quickly, but they can’t walk or hunt or defend themselves for at least three weeks. As such, this pregnancy seems bound and determined to sabotage itself at every single stage of development, right down to the birth. The fetus grows at an unnatural speed. It makes the mother’s body reject all forms of nutrition except blood, basically starving it. The fetus is strong enough to break bones and bruise organs. It is wrapped in an impenetrable bubble that can’t be ruptured and can’t be birthed naturally but intact (which sometimes does happen with human pregnancies) and so does not allow natural birth. It makes it so the only way the young can exit the womb is to kill the mother and thus strand the infant with no food and no means of caring for itself. So why in the world would the pregnancy function this way?
** The best guess I have is that they feared that at a certain point, the vampire baby's bloodlust would kick in and it would realize it was trapped in a prison made of food.
** The only vampire pregnancies that are possible seem to be male vampire/female human. Vampires don't care about humans; the vampire father will raise the child.

* Rosalie carries Bella all over the house while she's pregnant. Upstairs to the X-Ray machine, downstairs to the couch, upstairs for bed, around generally when she needs to go to the bathroom. WHY??? Bella is currently enduring a very high-risk pregnancy with a lot of stress being put on her body. Anything could go wrong to put both the mother and the fetus in danger. When that kind of pregnancy happens in real life, the mother is put on complete bed rest, and when the pregnancy is seriously high risk, such as signs of placental detachment beginning, the mother is basically not allowed to get up at all. Movement is kept to an absolute minimum—meaning you don’t get to get up and go to the restroom. You stay in bed and get to use a bedpan and/or a catheter. Embarrassing? Yes. Necessary for your health? Absolutely. So why is Bella being carried to and fro all over the house bridal style while she has broken ribs and a high-risk pregnancy just so she doesn’t have to endure an icky old tube up her urethra. Endure pain and agony, yes—that makes her looks selfless! But endure something embarrassing for both her own sake and the baby’s? HELL NO. Next thing you’ll be asking her to wear a neck brace for a possible spinal injury!

* Carlisle says, "I can't stop [[Bella's pregnancy]] and I can't slow it [[the fetal growth]] down. I can't figure out what it wants." Really. He can't begin to guess what sort of sustenance a ''half-vampire baby'' might need to survive. It's just beyond him, so he just sits there helplessly, wondering what on earth he could feed a ''half-vampire baby''.

* Bella suddenly stops being able to absorb any sort of nutrients, presumably because Demonspawn stops her. Why? Parasites don't usually try to kill ''themselves'' in the process of feeding off their hosts. It would be one thing if the fetus was having trouble absorbing nutrients from the mother, but why would it actually starve her? And why was it able to absorb nutrients from Bella for the accelerated twenty two weeks of development before suddenly stopping?
** Four weeks. She clearly absorbed nutrition for the first two weeks, when Bella had her food cravings. Maybe it was just because she stopped eating eggs, seeing as that is solid food, and the baby needed ridiculous amounts of protein until Meyer did a classic Meyerian "for drama" violation of the laws of science and decided what the vampire hybrid ''really'' needed was magical human blood.

* Bella's accelerated pregnancy means that one day is roughly the equivalent to nine days of normal human pregnancy. That means that, when Jacob goes to visit her in part two of ''Breaking Dawn'', she is the equivalent of thirty-one weeks of pregnancy. According to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability this fetal viability chart and table]], infant viability has now reached >95%. So why is Bella still pregnant? Why have they not gone ahead and done a C-section?

* Demonspawn is apparently encased in some sort of amniotic sac that utterly and completely foils ultrasound. But somehow, despite being encased in this completely rigid bubble, it kicks hard enough to bruise Bella? How?
** And as a follow up, why didn't it kick the inside of Bella's torso to chunky soup? If it kicks hard enough to bruise her flesh, that means that it should be pulping her organs, right? Unless it 'only' kicks in that one direction so as to do minimal damage to Bella and as to be most artfully dramatic.
** As yet another follow-up, not so much "how is a uterus supposed to accomodate an expanding sack of unyielding vampire skin without tearing?" as "how does blood get through it from outside, and how can amniotic fluid expand it?"

* When Jacob sees Bella for the first time after she returns to forks with Demonspawn in her belly, Edward tells Jacob that Bella hasn't been able to eat solid food since getting pregnant. Why the hell isn't she attached to an IV? Yes, she is later, but why wasn't she from the start? Since Rosalie is hissing and throwing a fit every time Carlisle touches Bella, why not leave her attached to the life-giving nutrients and hydrating fluids that she will need to survive?

* Why, when Bella was about to have the baby in Breaking Dawn and they ran out of blood, was the only doctor available the one who got sent out to get more blood? You would think that the doctor would want to stay with Bella (who was pretty much on the verge of death) and send one of the others to get the blood and wasn't it also at one point emphasized that Edward was the fastest of the Cullen family? You would think it would make far more sense for the medical professional to stay with the physically unstable pregnant woman while the fastest of the group went out to get the blood.
** Ummm . . . because he's the only one who can actually get blood, being that he's the only doctor? I'm not too sure about this, but I have a feeling that they don't just give random people off the street bags of donor blood.
*** They also don't just give doctors bags of blood to give to patients being treated outside the premises of a hospital.
** If it's already been established that vampires can live off animal blood and the baby needed blood because it was half vampire, then why did it have to be human blood? still seems like there were ways around leaving the potentially dieing pregnant women without any medical care. It also seems like any of the others, given their vast array of special abilities, could have gotten into a building undetected pretty easily.
*** I'm almost certain that it's stated somewhere in the book that they didn't think that animal blood would be appealing to the fetus, and they were concerned about Bella immediately getting nutrition.
*** Human blood is actually toxic for humans to drink, having a very high iron content. Drinking too much blood is a recipe for iron poisoning, among other things. Meanwhile, pig and cows blood is a part of regional cuisine around the world, and there are cultures that drink horse's blood like Gatorade.
*** That also makes no sense, if animal blood was the first blood the fetus tasted then how would it even know that it preferred human blood? Babies eat whatever their mothers eat, it's not possible for a child to reject something that it's mother eats since the nutrients travel straight down the umbilical cord and into the fetus' stomach (so it's never given the opportunity to throw it up or anything), so even the animal blood didn't "appeal" to the fetus, it would still absorb the necessary nutritional value. It's also been proven that, after being born, babies tend to prefer whatever food their mothers ate most while they were in her womb (you'd think Carlisle, as a doctor, would know that), so by feeding Bella human blood while she was pregnant they would actually be pre-programming Renesmee to crave human blood. Why would vampires who believe that drinking human blood is wrong want to do that?
*** What at least some of us don't understand is why they didn't just give her a blood transfusion. It would have to get in her blood to get to the fetus anyway, so why take the roundabout way of ''drinking'' it?
*** It was previously established that the animal blood is the equivalent of tofu: it will provide for your needs, but isn't the best tasting and isn't the healthiest thing around. Since the baby was craving blood, and had already been taking Bella's blood to meet that thirst, it's likely that they figured the baby would reject animal blood after already tasting human blood.
*** The baby wasn't taking Bella's blood. At no point do they describe Bella's condition as anemic.

* Why didn't they just give her animal blood when they ran out of human blood?
** Just guessing here, but maybe they figured she would have less of a moral objection to drinking blood that was willingly given by someone, as opposed to drinking blood that came from an animal that was killed for that express purpose? Of course, there's lots of loopholes with that, but it's a guess.
*** Bella's not a vegetarian, so why should she be upset that someone killed an animal to feed her?
** I don't think they actually ran out of blood. Bella was still chugging down blood when her equivalent of "the water broke" happened, and wound up spilling her cup on the couch. It was just that they had little left, and I'm not sure what they were thinking - that she might need some after the cesarean or something? - but at least it effectively got Carlisle and Esme out of the house in time for Edward to dazzle us with his elite surgery skills. Most likely the whole thing was just a way to add drama, since Carlisle would never have done a Rosalie and tried to eat Bella while performing the surgery.
*** THIS PART really confused me for a different reason. Bella is about to have a baby. Despite stabilizing her with human blood (ulch), this dhampyre is completely capable of ripping Bella apart, and almost does. So why, on god's green earth, did Carlisle not tell Edward how to perform a Cesarian ''before'' he went and got blood in the likely event Bella goes into labor?
*** It was always planned to use vampire teeth if the amniotic sac proved to be resistant to the scalpel. Given they couldn't even X-Ray or Sonogram the baby with it. It was very likely already planned that way anyway.
*** Given that Edward has multiple medical degrees, it's possible he's supposed to already know how to do one. It wouldn't be the first time he seriously dropped the ball in that court.

* Why was the whole "Bella's pregnant with a baby that will most likely kill her" issue handled and planned for soo poorly by the Cullins? Especially the doctor. This comes in two parts. (A)Why does the doctor not get and use any real medicaly equipment? I'm not even talking about stealing from the hospital. Medical equipment and ect. is created and sold by private companies and the family is written as being incredibly wealthy. I'm sure that if money was no issue (and I'm assuming an immortal doctor would have developed some contacts) then he should have been able to place a call, transfer the appropriate amount of money, and had all the stuff he needed express shipped to the house. Just off the top of my head, they really should have had her hooked to an IV with a nutritional drip, a heart moniter, had an EPADURAL, the necissary equipment to perform a C-Section, and an ultrasound machine. This segueys into (B) Why were they just kicking back waiting for Bella to go into labor? In general, if a pregnancy is high risk in the way that the strain of labor is likely to do serious harm to or kill the mother, usually the doctors involved plan to make the pregancy as short as possable. While full term is 9 months, the lungs are usually okay somewher in the 7th month. The baby wasn't developing at a normal rate, but why wasn't the DOCTOR watching the ultrasound like a hawk and planning to do a proper C-Section (rather than mauling without any anasthesia) as soon as the lungs developed to the point that it was safe?
** Carlisle said that the ultrasound machine he had wouldn't penetrate the amniotic sac, meaning that they had no way of monitoring the baby's progress. If they cut Bella open too soon, then they risked killing the baby. All they could do was wait and let the unnatural nature take it's course.
*** Except that they WERE tracking the baby's growth, through the size of Bella's stomach. They'd even marked down when, roughly, the nine-month point would be, and planned on cutting it out of her then. The idea never seems to really occur to them to even try a bit earlier.
*** Except that since being the first time they encounter this letting it runs its course sounds more logical. Reneesme was not trying to hurt her and Bella felt a bond with the child that might had proven fatal to severe beforehand.
*** Except that the baby had already ''been'' hurting Bella and they had no idea how the birthing would go at all. One would think that removing the baby in a safe and controlled environment as quickly as possible would be more logical than leaving it to be birthed on its own, especially since the birth, from start to finish, clearly wasn't healthy for the mother and plenty of species kill the parent through childbirth.

* How was it possible for a vampire getting a human pregnant to be such a rare thing that none of the vampires had ever heard of it happening before and could not possibly predict how it would turn out, yet so common that information about it could be found on Google? That seems like a bit of a contradiction. It also seemed like (when it did happen) it was the sort of thing that vampires tried to keep quiet so, again, a simple Google search easily turning up detailed and accurate information about it seems highly unlikely.
** Simple. No one thought of it before because Carlisle, who told them all about being vampires, didn't know that a vampire could have the self-control necessary to sleep with a human. Or he did know, but he also knew how dangerous it would be for a human girl to carry a half-vampire baby. It's also entirely possible that the Volturi wouldn't tell him about it, thinking that he might be one of those who might want to experiment with the idea. I have no idea about the Google thing, though.
** Well then you didn't answer the question at all, since the google thing was what I was asking about.
*** If you are referring to the place in Breaking Dawn part 1, where Robert Pattinson Googles "immortal children", I would like to point out that immortal children are something else, they are human children that have been turned into vampires. Dhampyrs (vampire-human hybrids) weren't supposed to exist in that universe, or nothing is known about them, because Carlisle's logic is that no vampire other than himself and one or two of his amazing children would ever be able to have sex with a human instead of just draining her blood.
*** Which would be great, except that Meyer never really establishes this as an alternate universe. So far as we're told, the books work under the premise that this is the same world we live in, but that vampires secretly inhabit it (like how ''Literature/HarryPotter'' takes place in our world, with a secret magic society going on). ''Breaking Dawn'' even establishes that other vampire myths from our world are around. So why aren't dhampyrs?
*** All the other vampire myths (sleeping in coffins, garlic and cross weaknesses..) in the story were made out by the Volturi to keep humans in the dark. Why would they think this was the exception? Specially if there had been immortal children before it would make more sense to think that humans confused the two and Volturis allowed to be part of the folklore as well.
*** But [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhampir dhampir myths]] don't originate from Italy. Not to mention, the folklore it ''does'' come from isn't consistent with the folklore that the Volturi allegedly spread around - it comes from the Slavic belief that if a corpse isn't buried with the proper rituals, it possibly could be possessed by a spirit within forty days of burial and, in the case of a married man, return to their wives for sex. The fact that multiple stories from different countries exists should be some indicator that there's an alternate source.

* How does Edward impregnate Bella? As a vampire, does he continue to make sperm? But that wouldn't make sense, considering they're 'like stone' so they can't age. And since when did he have the body fluids to create sperm? It's not like he, or any vampire can convert blood into sperm, and I don't think venom can carry sperm in it. [it ''melts'' contact lenses!] And he can't have been carrying sperm in his testicles for a hundred years; considering that they die off, just as eggs do in a woman's uterus. Even if they did manage to survive for a hundred years, how do they remain potent, considering that sperm need to be frozen, and then heated up slowly to remain potent. Wouldn't Bella, being nice and warm at 37 C, kill off any of Eddie's sperm? In any case, since sperm have to be frozen in order remain fertile, how would it travel up Eddie-kin's erection and go into Bella's uterus? And then defrost and get to the egg in Bella?
** The only thing we have to go on regarding that is the vampire venom replacing all fluids in the body. Apparently, that somehow includes sperm, though by that logic, you would think it would either turn her or the fact that the venom is supposed to be acidic would tear open a hole inside of her.
** HOW THE SPERM LIVE IN EDWARD'S VENOM FOR 1xx YEARS? IT CAN ''MELT CONTACT LENSES''! HOW WOULD THEY SURVIVE? And if Vampires are immortal, ''why'' would they need to breed? Sperm would be useless, because usually if a vampire loves a human, they turn them into a vampire, not have sex with them as a human! So having sperm is ''completely, and utterly useless!'' DHAMPIRS SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TWILIGHT.
*** Not to mention that dhampirs are completely pointless in a universe where vampires have no weaknesses.
*** It's just another way of pointing out how special Bella is. One of the big downers for being a female vampire was that they couldn't have kids. Well, surprise! Bella gets to be the all-perfect sparkly vampire AND have an equally all-perfect sparkly kid. Doesn't matter what aspects of the world Meyer has to turn on its ear so long as she can ensure Bella gets everything she herself would want.
*** My understanding of it isn't that venom carries sperm but ''acts'' as it, just as it is a chromosome altering agent that turns humans into vampires it also altered(or in this case fertilized) Bella's ovum producing a half vampire half human, but I'm still skeptical of the fact that Carlisle didn't consider this might be the case if they are still ejaculating as vampires.
*** Well they keep a lot of human things that have no need off (Hair, nails...) if the venom keeps shooting he might assumed it was a left over with no genetic material. Men that get a vasectomy still ejaculate after all.
*** Isn't it obvious? If it were human sperm Renesmee would have been a human. It was crystal vampire sperm, of course!
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Problems that Could Have Been Solved by Skyping]]
* Why did the following scene not happen: Carlisle calls the Volturi and says, "Aro? It's Carlisle. Listen, I know this is going to sound weird, but a vampire, who is a friend of ours, is going to come to you in a little bit with a compelling story that we made an Immortal Child. However, here's the deal. We didn't. I know it looks like it, but I swear we didn't. What we really have here is a half-human, half-vampire hybrid. And for my first piece of evidence, if she really was an Immortal Child, why would I be calling you to bring this to your attention? We want to bring the child and photographic evidence supporting our statements that she isn't an Immortal Child and discuss this reasonably. We'll tell you the whole story when we get there. Please don't come kill us." Remember, Aro is buddy-buddy with Carlisle. And he's also a real stickler for the rules. He made them, and he goes by them, and he's never shown himself to be nasty about it. Why doesn't this happen?
** Because the Volturi are 3,000 years old and telephones are about 120. The Volturi have no need for telephones and most likely try to avoid the "inferior" human world as much as possible.
*** Yes, the group of vampires that control and dominate everyone else they can don't see the advantages of instant global communication, and don't allow any of their underlings to be reached by telephone, either. Not buying it. Furthermore, the Volturi can't be opposed to modern tech. They learn of the existence of Renesmee on December 14th. They have their confrontation on December 31st. You can't travel by ship and over the entire North American continent in 17 days, (you can make it in 20 if you can manage a constant speed of 20 knots, don't stop for supplies or refueling and go by the Panama Canal). So if they didn't travel by ship or train then they must have flown. And commercial airtravel has been around for a lot less time than telephones.
*** Maybe they super-speed vampire-swam to America. In a big school. Like dolphins.
*** [[ComicallyMissingThePoint Dolphins swim in pods.]]

* When the Volturi are on that rampage to destroy Renesmee, the Cullens have like a month's worth of warning, right? It's a big part of the story that all they need is for the Volturi to listen to them, and that's why they need to gather so many vampires- to stop the Volturi long enough for them to explain. So why don't the Cullens just call the Volturi and tell them everything?
** For that matter, why not just set up a video recorder and tape Renesmee's freakishly fast growth and development? Mail several copies to the Volturi and mention that they also sent a few to their dear friends as mementos, so the Volturi can't "lose" it.
*** It pains me to defend the books, but: the Volturi don't actually care about Renesmee being a dhampir instead of a child vampire or whatever, they just want an excuse to go to town on the Cullens and then 'collect' the survivors. The friendly neighborhood vampires the Cullens round up are reinforcements as much as anything.
*** Funny how they didn't act on that desire on one of several earlier occasions. Like with the discovery that Bella, a human, had known about their secret for a good long while now while getting to remain human and alive in New Moon. Or the whole mess with Victoria raising up an army for the sole purpose of killing Bella in Eclipse. If they really wanted an excuse, either of those would have worked.
*** With New Moon, they relented because Bella would eventually become a vampire, and killing her then would also pretty much mean killing the two memebers of the Cullen Clan they're interested in collecting and hey, they're immortal. What's a few years to them in the long run? With Victoria's army, they were betting that the mind-reader and the chick that can see the future would survive no matter what, and if they're lucky a few Cullen's would die and they could come in and incorporate the survivor's into the fold. Not to mention that in the latter case they only had justification to go after Victoria and her army. [[VillainWithGoodPublicity They have to keep up appearances]] of being fair; they couldn't take any actions against the Cullen's at that point.
*** But it's made clear that they're supposed to be evil. What with the pointless murder of Bree Tanner and all. All the same, though, if they really only wanted an excuse to go to town on the Cullens, either the fact that they let a human know about them and then ditched her with every intent of not ever coming back or the whole issue of a vampire army being created and slaughtering who knows how many humans out of revenge solely against them could have worked as well.
*** It's clear to the reader, but in story they're lawful evil as far as every other vampire is concerned. The killed Bree because she was released from her creator's control before being trained, and thus breaking one of their laws. And you seem to keep missing the core point; ''Aro wants to add Alice, Bella and Edward to his collection of superpowered vampires.'' In the former, Aro saw throuh Alice that Bella would become a vampire, which would take care of that loose end plus give him something to hold over Edward's head a few hundred years down the line. And with the Vampire Army, they had no justification to go after the Cullens, but didn't step in sooner just to see if the Vampire army would kill off a few Non-Edward or Alice Cullens. We're even told in the last book that they're MO for recruiting vampires with cool powers is to find a reason to kill off most of the covern, use that one chick's power to influence people's relationships to destroy the relationship a new recruit has with their covern then strengthen their bonds with the Volture so they join willingly. So in short their plan in Breaking Dawn was to gather witnesses, go to the Cullen's and hold a trial. They're use their power to destroy Edward's, Alice's and Bella's relationship with the rest of the Cullen's (including Renemse), and probably strengthen their relationship with Aro for showing "mercy" and "compassion" so they'd be more willing to join. Then they'd scapegoat Rosalie for creating Reneseme since she wanted to have a child, kill off as many of the Cullen's as they could and decide to "offer" the survivor's a place with them.
*** So in short, it's actually a brilliant plan, which is why I'm convinced that SMeyer has been stealing ideas off of someone else, as that was more thought than she put into her main characters.
*** Lawfully evil people can still take the laws to extremes to suit their own needs. They could have fixed the Bella issue themselves by turning her right then and be done with it instead of waiting for the Cullens to do it on their own time and risking Alice's vision being wrong due to outside variables over time. If they had done it themselves, they could have made Bella one of theirs and forced Edward and the others to remain with them because of it. They could have taken the fact that Victoria was only making a vampire army to kill Bella and get revenge as justification of saying that the Cullens cannot manage on their own and thus force their way. Not saying the way they did it wasn't brilliant, but if they're really as evil as we're supposed to think and only using the opportunity Renesmee gave them to try and take over the Cullens, then by all accounts, they could have taken any one of the many previous instances instead of letting the Cullens get away repeatedly.
*** [[SlaveToPR The Volturi need to keep their reputation as fair judges intact,]] which is why they pass over those opporunities. They didn't turn Bella at the time because A) Dinner was incoming, and she might die in the result, B) It would foster resentment from Edward, not something you want from an underling and C) It's important that his workers either join of their own free will or manipulate the situation so they think they willingly joined. Had they already fed they might have kept them there longer and Aro could have tried to manipulate them into joining. But the point is that Aro, being ageless and having lived for a very long time is incredibly patint; he can afford to wait until the perfect opportunity to bring them into the fold, he doesn't have to rush or take chances.
*** But how is Renesmee a better excuse to go to war over? Once she was shown to not be an Immortal Child, they wouldn't have had any rules to go by. As opposed to the "don't let a human know about us and live" rule or the "don't endanger the secret of our society" rule, both of which the Cullens did and did blatantly. Alice's visions have been shown to not be perfect. Aro could have discovered this, gone "no, we're not going to just wait on this", and turned her then, possibly bringing her over to their side immediately and thus having a way of drawing in the Cullens as well. If they were trying to get Edward and the Cullens to join them willingly, going after their MarySue daughter would not be the way to go about it. It would have just as much of a negative effect as you said there would be if they had killed Bella when they first found out about her. My point is that saying they only used the issue in Breaking Dawn as an excuse to try and nab the Cullens doesn't really work, as they could have used anything at any point to do such, and especially going after their daughter would not endear them to the Cullens or get them to want to join them willingly. And while they could try to play it as Renesmee being evil and them "saving" the Cullens while really manipulating them by destroying their bonds, that's still something they could have done, pretty easily given their added numbers and the lack of Bella's "love shield", when they had Alice and Edward, the two main ones they wanted, right there in Volterra.
*** Again, Aro's patient. You don't get to where he is and live for how ever many centuries he has by taking impulsive actions. You're also missing the fact that when they had that meeting in the second book they were waiting on food, which arrived just as they left. Turning her then would have risked Bella's survival, so they had to let her go then. And once she left, well Aro's immortal; what's a few years to him? plus he has the added weight of having Edward and Alice owing him one for not forcing the issue, which is always useful for manipulation purposes (Yeah, TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade player here). As for going after Renesme, when they tried that they didn't know she was Bella's actual daughter, since they know she wasn't pregnant before her wedding, and there wasn't enough time afterwards. All they knew is that there was a baby with vampire blood, nothing else. But that would give them an excuse to cull members of the covern they didn't want and absorb the rest.
*** I will add that videos and photos can be easily altered nowadays. As in the old world the only thing they could use to stop them was actual witnesses and their own eyes. Calling them would not had worked either.
*** Skype? Webcams?
*** Why not just have Chelsea break their bonds and make the ones Aro wanted to keep want to join? He has a woman who could make all the Cullens hate each other and love Aro - why not just do that?
*** They did try that in the book and it was blocked by Bella's shield.

* What was up with the climax of ''New Moon''? So Alice has a vision that Bella was dead, and immediately decides to tell everyone that it already happened, even though it was a vision of the ''future''. She then sees that Bella is very much alive, and decides to hang around for girly time, instead of calling her family and letting them know, oops, her bad, Bella didn't die! And then, when they find out what Edward would do, why didn't they call the Volturi and give them warning of Edward's plan? She said the Volturi were fond of Carlisle and would possibly spare Edward out of charity, plus they want him to join their group. Why not tell them that Edward is suicidal and misinformed, and could the Volturi just ''restrain'' him when he goes to expose himself?
*** Rosalie choice of calling Edward to tell him was when she had the vision of him killing himself. Before that everything was going to be alright so why tell? Alice doesn't live in the present.Also she never met the Volturi before how would she get a hold of them? Carlisle seems to keep them at distance he probably doesn't want to know a lot about their lifestyle at this point.
** Because apparently vampires don't have cell phones and it wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
*** The Volturi are very old-fashioned and are perfectly content with that. They don't seem to need or want electronic devices.
*** The Volturi seem to have at least ''some'' electronic devices, since Meyer stated in the ''Illustrated Guide'' that they often contact people with job offers and the like, to lure them in as food. Maybe they don't have cell phones, but you'd think that there'd be some way to reach their frigging ''receptionist''.
*** The Volturi still don't owe the Cullens anything and would easily have Edward killed if they so much as knew of his intentions. Maintaining the secrecy of vampires is clearly considered sacrosanct to them and knowing that Edward is willing to compromise it all for his own benefit certainly won't endear them to help him.

* Victoria wanted Bella dead, but couldn't get at her while she was protected by the werewolves. Why didn't she go to the Vulturi and say that Bella knew about the existence of vampires, and that she needed to be killed? Oh, and the Cullens totally broke the ONE RULE and revealed themselves to this mortal. Two birds, one stone, and James is avenged.

* When Alice had her vision of dead Bella, she immediately hauls ass to Forks to find out what happened. She gets there and discovers that her vision was false and Bella is alive. She is there for two days and a night before Edward calls and through 'hilarious' miscommunication, that Charlie was at "the funeral," which he assumes is Bella's and thus motivates him to commit suicide via Volterri. But why didn't Alice, after discovering that Bella was alive, pass word of that fact along the Cullen communication chain? Everyone loves Bella, right? Wouldn't one or more of them like to hear that she didn't leap to her death and drown in the ocean?
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Questionable Plans]]
* Edward is a telepath. He knows that James has decided to hunt Bella to the ends of the Earth until he kills her. There is no reasoning him out of it, no bargaining, no way to dissuade him. It's going to come down to hunting and killing. At this stage, he has two options. 1) Attack James, Victoria, and Laurent immediately and take advantage of 7-3 odds. You have four heavy hitters on your team in the form of of Jasper with his emotional manipulation to lull the enemies into stupor, Alice's ability to predict the future, Emmett's strength, and your own telepathy. Maybe you know that Laurent won't fight, so even better. The odds are now 7-2. Or you could 2) Split up your own forces in a hopeless attempt to delay James and lead him on a merry goose chase, send Bella out with a reduced contingent and hope James doesn't see through your ruse and ambush Bella's protectors somehow. Edward goes with option 2. What's wrong with option 1 again?

* In the first book, why did the Cullens think it was a good idea to take Bella to Phoenix? They jumped through hoops to ensure that her dad wasn't attacked, wouldn't ''someone'' think that hiding in the same city as Bella's mother was not such a good idea? There's plenty of places to go, and the Cullens have a lot of money.
** In the movie, at least, one of the big reasons she wants to go to Phoenix is so the Cullens do not get blamed for her disappearance. It's a logical place for her to go.
*** I believe it was similar or the same in the book. Of course, it may have been easier to just SAY she was going to Phoenix and then go somewhere else.
*** ^This. Bella yells out to Charlie, "I'm going home!" on the theory that James was listening and would change course and head to Pheonix. Of course, why they then actually GO to Pheonix I don't get. Why not hide Bella on Renee island?
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Renesmee]]
* So what exactly ''are'' Renesmee's human traits? She has a heartbeat, body temperature, she sleeps, and she physically changes and develops (until that stops at maturity)...and what else? She seems to have almost nothing in common with humans.
** That's pretty human already, but she can also eat human food and has blood.

* Ok, I accept that Renesmee physically matures at an accelerated rate,even thought none of the other vampires in the series age so, even being half human, you'd think it would make more sense for her to age more slowly than the average human because she has vampire blood in her, which usually stops ageing dead (pun intended) but what ever, I'm over it. I just want to know what makes her STOP maturing when she reaches a certain physical age? How is the physical age at which she will stop maturing determined? What keeps her from just continuing to mature at an excelerated rate until she's an old woman?
** Difference between maturing and aging. Maturing is your body growing into its adult stage--finishing puberty, mostly. Aging is your body slowly falling apart and dying out from under you.
** Well, the average female is not fully physically developed until she reaches the age of 25, I know this because of an unusual medical problem I have that made it necessary for my doctor to explain it to me. So why does Renesmee stop aging when she's a teenager?
** Because Stephanie Meyer doesn't know that.
** Meyer seems to have this idealized view that teen = fully mature and capable adult. Bella, for one, is 17 and TOTALLY knows exactly what she wants and what life-altering choices are right. At 17. [[SarcasmMode Because no one EVER makes mistakes at that age.]] But to that same extent, all the other Cullen kids are pretty much teenagers as well. It honestly comes off more that Meyer herself wishes she were 17 again and that ideal is reflected through the fact that she's trying to portray the teenage years as the age of maturity, nevermind that there is still some growing to do, hormones are still quite active, and most of her teenage characters have displayed some completely idiotic tendencies.

* Speaking of Renemee, how does it work that she's developmentally 18 when she's only been alive for seven years? Maturity is more than being physically adult and intellectually gifted. A real 18-year-old has 18 years of life experience as well, which a seven-year-old, regardless of intelligence and physical growth, will not have. Nothing changes the fact that Renesmee has been alive for ''less than a decade.'' I'm sorry, but this whole thing still screams "pedophilia" to me.
** The character of Renesmee was created solely for the purpose of resolving the love triangle; Meyer didn't want Jacob to end up alone (because in this series not being married is considered a fate worse than death), but I guess the though of him moving on and having any sort of a life that didn't involve Bella was just to painful for her, so she had the reason that he and Bella were so drawn to each other be because she was destined to give birth to his ''actual'' true love and gave the baby an ''adult mentality'' and had it age at an accelerated rate in an effort to reduce the {{squick}} factor of a teenage boy being in love with a baby. Basically, she couldn't think of any better way to resolve the rivalry between Edward and Jacob while still keeping Jacob in Bella's life and without having to concede that, if Edward was Bella's ''true love'', then that would have to mean that Jocobs feelings for her weren't real (were just infatuation.)Since this story operates on the old "there's someone for everyone" principle as well as the belief that who a person will fall in love with is predetermined by fate/destiny it does not allow for emotional RedHerring s because it perpetuates the idea that when you meet your ''true love'' you instinctively know it and by that reasoning it's not possible for a person to falsely believe that they are in love (the feeling always has to at least mean something significant.) She slapped together a slopily written plot device that would eliminate all those problems in on fell swoop without requiring the characters to deal with their complicated feelings for each other in any sort of mature or believable way. It's basically a really extreme example of BabiesMakeEverythingBetter.
** Meyer said that Renesmee already has an adult mentality. Despite Meyer's claims, this does not work on several levels. One being that Renesmee is already somehow able to read and understand things on an adult level without anyone actually teaching her. An adult mentality does not mean an adult's level of knowledge. That comes with time. The other issue is that if Renesmee is growing at an accelerated rate, the constant change in her body and hormones would play havoc on any cognitive processes she could have, no matter how "adult" she is supposed to be.
*** Well, there is...ahem...[[Franchise/{{Dune}} "precedent"]] for a little girl born with the full knowledge of a grown woman, or, perhaps, more than one grown woman, through in-utero mind-reading.

* Film-based Headscratcher-why didn't they just get an actual baby/child actor for Renesmee? It should cost far less than the CGI baby they made, who's only "benefit" was digging deeper into the UnintentionalUncannyValley
** 'OK Mr. and Mrs. Baby-Parents, here we're going to film the scene where the 16-year old boy falls in love with your infant daughter and plans to have hot-werewolf-sex with her when she's seven years old....wait...wait...wait...come back! We need the baby!'

* I'm surprised nobody mentioned this one yet, when everyone is trying to get witnesses why does Edward ask "what do you hear, what do you smell"? Why can't he just flat out tell people the truth and say he knocked up Bella on their honeymoon? It's a lot simpler than risking a negative reaction by his weird questions, and I'm surprised nobody else had the brain to tell him.
** Because whenever characters in this series are required to decide on a course of action, they always go with the one that will create the most drama, even if it's the least practical option. Really, if you think about it, if it weren't for the characters making bad decisions (for which their being ''emotionally overwhelmed'' is usually given as an excuse) and melodramatically overreacting to things, there would have been hardly any story to tell.
*** Vampires already know the laws about the immortal children if they hear Edward saying this without stopping to think they could just disappear on a flash before having time to pay attention. This was pretty much Irina reaction she didn't considered anything but running and tell the Volturis.
** In-universe, many didn't believe it to be ''possible'' for a vampire to impregnate a human woman at the time, which might explain why he doesn't just tell them he "knocked" her up 'cause they might not have believed him or otherwise think he was joking? Granted, many were also not aware of the existence of hybrids since they're a rare specimen, which is why Renesmee was mistaken as an immortal child to begin with. So he may have asked what'd they hear (presumed to be Renesmee's heartbeat) and smell (presumed to be Renesmee's flowing blood) to convinced them that Renesmee is not an immortal child and ''is'' in fact, a hybrid. He needed to get their attention and have them convinced otherwise they might've jumped to conclusions.
** It's a lot simpler to get someone to believe something when they discover the evidence and come to the conclusion themselves.

* Why does everyone keep saying Renesmee stops aging when she's physically 17? I can't see any mention of this in the book, and if she ages at roughly 3 years a year and stops after 7 years, shouldn't she be 21? It just bothers me since everyone complains about her being forever underage but I don't see how she is.
** It is mentioned in the book that this is what happened to Nahuel, the male hybrid, so it is assumed that this will happen to Renesmee. I figure she'd age fast, but she'd stop aging quite as fast the older she got. A normal baby can more than double her body weight during her first year of life, but obviously if she kept this up, she'd be a giant by the time she reached the age of 10. It makes sense that she'd age more slowly as she got closer to full development. Besides, Renesmee's parents are 17 and 18 years old; her being physically older would just be ''[[SarcasmMode weird]]''.
*** All Meyer specifically says is that the demon child - sorry, Renesmee (and if you type the name in word, the first spell-check change to come up is 'rename') stops aging when she's fully grown. Despite SM's apparent belief that teenagers are at full maturity, Renesmee should hit about twenty five or so before freezing. Which is hilarious considering she has a seventeen year old dad. I don't know where fanfic writers got the 'forever sixteen' thing unless they're just that set on making her younger than Edward.
* Can't the Cullens use the fact that Reneesme has not slaughtered every living human in Forks as evidence that she isn't an immortal child, as the Volturi believe her to be? I mean, it's common knowledge that immortal children are vicious killing machines, right?
* Why do people say Renesmee has a dumb or outright ridiculous name? I'm someone who hasn't red beyond a little of the first book and isn't precisely a fan of any of them or the films, but...I thought it was kind of clever, and...a cute name, actually. They ''did'' have a basis for naming her that, and it was a very sweet basis, anyway...Does anyone else agree?
** Well, even Smeyer herself says she'd never name a child Renesmee, so...
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Sex]]

* Er, another sex question, sorry. But if Edward's body is really freezing cold, how come Bella has no trouble getting, err, aroused?
** Maybe she has a fetish for the cold, it wouldn't be the weirdest thing I've ever heard and in the very least it would explain why she's okay with it the rest of the time.

* As much as I like Creator/RobertPattinson's snark that Edward is a self-hating centenarian virgin, WHY? Is there really no way he could've got any before? And if yes, why didn't he go mad instead?
** It's pretty unlikely that he couldn't get any. It's much more likely that he didn't want to.
** It would ruin Meyer's over-wrought message of abstinence.
*** Because sex is worse than murder. *Sarcasm*
** By the way isn't there a WordOfGod stating or implying Edward never touches himself?
** As much as I'm enjoying all the sarcasm here, there are people in real life who are so religious that they are celibate into old age.
*** Sexual orientation Edward was probably extremely restricted hence he wouldn't consider a sex life until he fell in love and given that the only other brunettes vegetarian vampires are siblings he needed to fall for a human and turn her to be able to get his freak going with Bella.

* Bella's sudden moral to do this the right way at the end of ''Eclipse''. As someone who doesn't seem really want to save herself till marriage it annoyed me right at the end of ''Eclipse'' that she only wanted to have sex after they were married? She never cared before, so why now?
** Well Bella didn't had a moral reason to wait, she though it was unnecessary, and ridiculous but it was not like she had a moral reason to have sex before marriage. But Edward explained her his reasons. She decided to please him because she has dated him for two years now she knows very well that he will regret it after the did and it was only a month's wait. It doesn't seem that hard to believe that after thinking about it, she decide that it wasn't such a big deal to wait till they said their vows so he could be more at peace when he turned her later on.
** She also only wanted a baby ''two seconds after finding out she was pregnant'', after openly admitted that she never, ever wanted to be a mother.
*** Many women had experienced the same. Sometimes it take the baby actually coming for you get the mother instincts to kick in.
** That could be explained as her lying to herself since she was so set on being a vampire (she might not want to think about anything which could affect that happening, such as her wanting a child) or more likely she might not have really thought about it until she was pregnant with Edward's baby. Beforehand she had probably been thinking about babies in general, rather than her baby specifically and what that would be like

* So, you know how [=Smeyer=] says that female vamps can have sex with human men, but not get pregnant, because their bodies don't change? If their bodies don't change and can't stretch, then the vaginal canal can't tent, meaning it's about two inches deep. Her vamps also are freezing cold, and all their bodily fluid has been replaced with acidic venom. How's that for a treat, gentlemen? A smoking hot babe with two whole inches of freezing cold, acid-filled lady bits just waiting for you!
** I think you're being entirely too literal. "Their bodies don't change" means "they don't age and the biological functions required for conception no longer occur". It doesn't mean things don't bend, stretch or tent (otherwise it would be impossible for them to do things like walk or smile).
** Then again, there is still the cold, acidic passage...
*** It wouldn't feel cold to them. They are cold themselves. And again, they're acidic too. You can't be bothered that they're filled with acid when you are yourself
*** I think you're missing the point. It's not that the female vampire would be uncomfortable with herself, it's that no man wants to stick his penis in a cold, acidic orifice.
** Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that case, aren't Meyerpires penises also supposed to be cold and venom-spitting? Wouldn't having sex with a poisonous popsicle be uncomfortable too?
*** '''Yes.''' (Discussed in an above Headscratcher, I believe).

* So, when Edward and Bella have sex on their wedding night and Bella wakes up covered in bruises, Edward's all "NO I CANNOT TOUCH YOU AGAIN EVER". Why doesn't either of them suggest, say, handcuffs?
** Because that'd be useless. It was said that Rosalie and Emmett smashed down a few HOUSES while having sex. You really think handcuffs will restrain Edward?

* Why would vampires even HAVE sex to begin with? Sexual desires exist because unless we don't have sex we won't procreate. It's our body's way of making sure we try and carry our DNA on to the next generation. Vampires have no need for sex. None whatsoever. They can't get pregnant so the act itself is completely obsolete to them. They "procreate" through other means. It makes sense in vampire lore for them to use human sexuality against them to lure in their prey but they ought to be wholly uninterested in having sex with each other.
** Because sex isn't exclusively about procreation. It's also used to bond partners with each other. Vampires still have emotions, romantic feelings toward their lovers. Whether they actually can have children is irrelevant. You might as well ask why infertile people still have sex; it's fun, it feels good and it makes you feel closer to your partner. If they were all as cold and emotionless as Bella, you might've had a point, but we've seen that that just isn't true.
** To add onto that answer, all vampires were once humans, most of which whom had probably felt sexual desire at some point, as they're at least adolescent (vampire children are strictly forbidden as they can't control their bloodthirst). Those feelings to subside when they change, while their other senses such as hearing and sight strengthens, would be nonsensical. If anything, the desire would be stronger, and there isn't really a reason to refrain, because as the above poster stated, there is more to sex than just procreation.
*** Except those other things also exist because of procreation. Infertile people still have sex because they are human beings and humans as a species are programmed to want to have sex because it's a biological urge to keep the species going. It's as essential to the species as breathing or eating, only on a different level. Those instincts don't go away because you have a difficult time conceiving, or even if you cannot have children at all (though they go away if you lose the hormonal output needed to have the biological urge to procreate, hormones that exist for no other reason than to make new humans - do vampires have any hormones at all? I honestly can't recall). The instinct exists on a species-wide level, not an individual, and is part of our genetic make-up. Vampires do not procreate through sex and the act remains utterly pointless to them and they ought to have no more urge to engage in it than a human has an urge to fly south for the winter. Nor do vampires have any need for the other aspects of sex, which in and of themselves still exist for procreational purposes. There are a hundred other things vampires do for fun and pleasure (pleasure we only feel because it's designed to make us want to make babies) and they automatically bond very closely to their mates and form very strong ties (stronger than human love) because that's how their species operates and as such they have no need for that aspect of sex (and sex is far from the only thing you can do to bond with someone or be physically close to them). We humans bond with our partner through sex because of the hormones and the chemicals it releases, a process that is further connected to the need to produce new humans and raise them as successfully as possible. In short, it happens because it's an evolutionary advantage. Again, vampires have no need for that at all. Just like they have no need for a lot of other human bodily functions, including ones they performed a million times more often than they had sex. They might as well be going to the toilet more intensely than humans. Other than Meyer wanting to give her self-instert the best sex life of all time there is no reason for vampires to have sex.
*** Why would vampires lose the ability or desire to have sex? It's not like they grow new vampires in vats or build them out of kits or anything; they all started out as humans, with a range of sexual orientations and sex drives. Besides, humans can be bi, gay, or asexual - sex clearly isn't just about making babies or everyone would be straight.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Shotgun Sparklewedding]]
* What was the point of having Bella talk about how she didn't want to be the kind of girl who gets married out of high school and never leaves her home town or does anything with her life if she was just going to wind up doing exactly that without protest any way? Since she required almost no persuading to change her mind, that whole little speech seemed kind of pointless. Why did becoming a vampire make her decide that she was content to never leave Forks again? Especially since, being immortal and having all that money, there were more opportunities open to her than there were when she was human.
** Because she won't stay in Forks ''forever''; the Cullen family is implied to be leaving in, maybe, a few months. She, Edward, Nessie, and Jacob (if he comes) can leave the rest of the family for a little while and set up somewhere else for a few years, or they can stay with the family. They have free will to do whatever they want. All the kids do - they are all implied (or outright stated) to have left the main "family" for some amount of time before, and just returned when they felt like it.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Vampire Abilities (excluding Alice)]]
* On the honey moon, when Edward doesn't want to have sex with Bella again for fear of hurting her but Bella ''really'' wants to have sex, why did neither of them consider doing it again with her on top? It seems to me that that would have drastically reduced the likelihood of him hurting her because she would more in control of what was happening than him and you'd think, if she was so desperate to do it again, it would have occurred to her to try a different position at least once. Why do they both act like missionary position is the only possible way for people to have sex?
** Oh, Stephanie Meyer, you poor, poor woman...
** The above answer is completely hilarious and I don't wish to detract from it, but perhaps if she was on top he was afraid he might throw her off?
** She does get on top in the fifth movie. As I was watching I thought "really? now that nobody is in danger, this is when the option occurs to them?"

* So, how is it that James can't smell Bella until he's downwind of her, and then can suddenly follow her scent all over town despite the fact that she drives everywhere? No one leaves that much genetic residue, which is why bloodhounds can't follow a trail if the person gets into a car. Even with SOOPER VAMPIRE SENSES, if he couldn't smell her five feet away, he also can't smell her in a car.
** I assume that James ''could'' smell her before, he just didn't remark upon it because he assumed the smell was just a residual from someone who had passed through before, until he realized that she was ''right there''. This still doesn't make ''much'' sense, because if her smell is so fantastic, why wasn't he going, "Hey guys apparently there's a real hottie in town, let's go find her" or something? But it makes at least a little more sense. And he still shouldn't be able to smell her in the car, either.
** It is clearer in the books: James and his coven were not even close to town they were passing by when they hear the Cullens playing. They also didn't think it possible for a human to be alive amongst seven vampires, so, if they did smell her, they'd think they'd just eaten and she was dead.

* I'm sorry if this was asked before, but I have to ask, what is the need for vampires to have super-strength and speed? I mean, lets think nature. Cheetahs, for example, are incredible fast animals, but their main preys, gazelles, are really fast and agile too and have panoramic view, so the cheetahs need their speed to have a chance to catch them. Considering vampires main prey is humans, one of the most easy to catch mammals in the world, is there any need for those enhancement at all? Sure, we have our brains and technology, but so do vampires! If they need help, their eternal beauty is enough of an advantage in order to catch gullible fools like Bella. And if they really need to chase their victim, they don't need much speed: vampires don't have to catch their breaths, humans do; vampires are eternally young, humans don't. All they need to do is chase them until collapse, wolf style. Is there any part in the book where the reason of their superpowers is explained?
** The only explanation I can think of is that vampires get their powers form a supernatural source, not from natural selection/evolution, so their powers wouldn't be determined by the same rules that govern the animal world.
** But Meyer said her vampires are supposed to be based on science, so that rules out that explanation.
** Perhaps it's not in order to hunt down humans, but to be able to fight with their 'natural enemy', the ''werewolves''.
*** Since vampires can survive in animal blood too. Everything is her prey. They have all the weapons to hunt down every animal on Earth just in case they end up stranded in some isolated island. The perfect predator.
*** That's not how evolution works.
*** Of course not. But the point of werewolves being vampires' natural enemy stands - if werewolves kill vampires on sight, then only vampires who were fast/strong/agile enough could possibly "breed" (that is, make another vampires) before being killed. This actually suggests that some vampiric traits are hereditary by biting... And the side effect is that with werewolves being the most dangerous "animal" on Earth, vampires are equipped to fight/feed on anything else.
*** Given that exactly zero werewolves (as opposed to Jacob and his kin) appear in the pages of the books, and the Quileutes are limited to a very small geographical region, it's hard to believe that werewolves can exert selective pressure on the vampire population.

* Okay. The final deba- ''battle'' of breaking dawn. So whoopie. Bella-Sue can project a shield that defends against ''metal'' powers. So why didn't the Volturi just go in for the kill? Like, go down ''physically''? So what if they can't use their speshul powers? They're still super strong and are lighting fast. So why didn't they just run up to the cullens while they thought they were protected by Bella's shield, and go in for the surprise attack? Then they could've won, taken in Renesmee to either kill her or study her illogical tendencies, and headed home. Unless you're saying that Bella can deflect ''physical'' attacks also, then the Volturi could've just wrapped the entire thing up nice and easy.
** Edward addressed that; Aro was scared they might actually lose, since they were going up against an superor number of Vampires (the witnesses they got probably wouldn't fight with them), in addittion to werewolves who are great at fighting in a pack and killing vampires. Without their powers, their actual fighters would die quickly by virtue of having to deal with three or four attackers at once, leaving the rest of them Volturi who are more focused on social and mental finese. And launch a suprise attack? [[TooDumbToLive Against a vampire that is currently reading your every thought?]]
** Alternate strategy: I'm pretty sure Edward wouldn't be focusing on the entire volturi guard. So why doesn't one of the insignificant ones just go, take Reneesme, and run before they notice? People don't always think things through when they do something. It's called impulse. And since Edward is concentrating on Alec, Jane, or someone ''important'', I'm sure he wouldn't have realized what insignificant person #1 was going to do.
*** Except that would imply that Aro had a plan for his main players having their powers nulified. None of his guard would take such an action (especially since their plan was to kill Reneesme, not kidnap her) without Aro's approval first. So that strategy wouldn't work; Aro's too much of control freak to let his guard make a move without his approval first, and he never came across a situation where he couldn't just use Jane and Alec to stop them in their tracks.
** If that's the case, why didn't Aro think of an alternate strategy before? I know that it's the first time Jane and Alec were ineffective, but he knew Bella could block their gifts. If the Volturi really is so powerful and dangerous, just why couldn't they think of something else?
** Um... the Cullens had the Amazon vampire, Zafrina, I think. She could cast illusions on the Volturi, effectively blinding them just like Alec, so THEY wouldn't be able to attack. It was actually stated in the book that that was their plan.
** It could be that the Volturi simply considered the losses of a mostly fair fight unacceptable. Sort of like how the Iraq war had 100:1 Iraqi to American casualties yet many Americans still though the losses were unacceptable (even ignoring the politics).
** Aro didn't think of an alternate strategy before because it never occured to him that he'd need one. He actually ''didn't'' know that Bella could block their gifts. He knew that their gifts didn't work on her, but she didn't discover her ability to extend the protection to other people until shortly before the confrontation with the Volturi. Unless someone told Aro that she could do that, he had no reason to account for that in his battle plan.

* Can vampires heal? I want to think that no, they can't, for that you should be able to regenerate, creat new ''living'' cells, but if vampires can generate sperm... Anyway, is there any proof of vampires healing in the books?
** They had a couple of fights, so they probably had a few cuts that needed healing. A specific example I can think about is Jasper showing off his bite-scars which he got from fighting other vampires. They're not open anymore so they must have healed.
*** In that scene, Jasper specifically says that the one thing a vampire can never heal is venom from another vampire.
*** They can't heal anything caused by vampire venom but we do know if they lose an arm, appendage, or even their head, it CAN be reattached with venom, but it does leave a scar. We see this happen in the Bree Tanner novella and I believed its brought up in Eclipse.

* How are Werewolves and other Vampires the only things capable of killing Vampires in this series? Even if they're made of diamond thats still entirely breakable with normal human means. Diamond may be one of the hardest materials on earth but it is still brittle and easily breakable with just a normal hammer. Hell Vampires being fairly brittle in the long run would actually give a good reason for the masquerade they keep up for no reason.
** Given how secretive they are, maybe there's a case of UnreliableExpositor going on, and they either refuse to acknowledge or hide their vulnerability to mundane people? DeathOfTheAuthor required for this, of course.
*** But then why do they claim the werewolves can kill them?
*** Because werewolves are in the know and wouldn't be fooled otherwise. Also, tradition.

* Why does everyone think Twilight Vampires (TM) can't be killed except by other vampires? Their weakness is fire. Flamethrowers exist. Dead vamps to the tune of mmmph (Pyro from Team Fortress 2) . And even civilians Hairspray+match= crude flamethrower. And since you can spray fire in a circle, and thus block the vamp, how do these vampires survive?
** My guess is that it's one of those rules that Meyer made up after the fact in order to fill in a plot hole that she didn't realize was there until after the books had been published...she does that a lot.
** This troper heard Meyer claim that her vampires can outrun the blast radius of a nuclear bomb, so she'd probably handwave it by saying that they could run through/away from any fire-spewing weapon fast enough to escape unharmed. Um... yes.
*** Except, if the movie Eclipse is to be believed, then all it takes is throwing a butane lighter on a Twilight Vampire's body to cause them to burst into flame like a bondfire in about a second, like they're made of dried brush and oily rags. So all it would take is for fire to touch them to cause them to erupt into a walking pyre.
*** Vampires are also super fast. A human with a flamethrower still stands no chance as the vampire could easily get passed it. And if they did get hit by the flamethrower, they could always run the flames out or even stop drop and roll with all their speed. Notice that the first step to killing a vamp is to TEAR IT APART otherwise they can get rid of the flames. Humans don't have that capability. The only beings who stand a remote chance are other supernatural creatures who can match their speed and strength. Also, we don't actually know if fire "kills" them. It just puts them in a state where they can no longer reassemble themselves. That's why the old Quilluete man from the story wore some of the ash of the vampire on his neck, so he would know if the vampire ever tried to come back again. Kind of scary really.

* I only read the first book, so you'll have to bear with me here... I'm told that in the last book or so, Edward has sex with Bella and he's so rough and strong that she blacks out. I guess the idea is that he can't control his strength, but I have a hard time buying that. If he can't control his strength, does he crush metal doorknobs every time he opens a door? Does he break the TV remote every time he pushes a button? If he taps someone on the shoulder, does he break their bones?
** Some men black out during Orgasm, I imagine it would be hard to control anything at that moment. Given that vampire sex is supposed to be on par with normal orgasm the *entire* time....

* So we have a universe that contains Vampires that are all complete Mary Sues. The most important being the whole "Nigh-impossible to kill" bit which makes the entire setting and story completely idiotic and bogus in this Troper's opinion, but not because it's a ridiculous twisting of things common to Vampires in media works. No, what puzzles me is what exactly is stopping the top vampires from simply building an army and curbstomping humanity and making them a slave race/cattle? Why do they put up with having to hide among their food when they're clearly stronger than normal humans?
** Because vampires are sopposed to hide in the shadows, like good little man-eating monsters, and for some reason Meyers did not feel like destroying this particular aspect of vampire mythos.
** First off, the proper answer would probably be; 'well, they never asked'. Vampires have been around for centuries, and obviously Bella has heard about them and was able to look them up online, so vampire pop culture exists in Twilight, meaning in the beginning vampires decided there was no real need for secrecy. However, just because there's no need for secrecy doesn't mean there's no need for proclaiming your existance to the world. And it's only in this the 'information age' that a careless vampire would leave a tangible trail to convince the authorities that any witness who survived an encounter with these nigh unstoppable killing machines that they aren't crazy. And it's only in these recent years that humans have actually become organized enough to set plans in motion for the eradication of vampires and the means to do it, i.e. it's implied that atomic bombs can kill Vampires. Now, if you're in a position of power and you found out that an army of nigh unstoppable killing machines are slowly eating your species, and that any member of your family could be next, how long would it take you to organize the planet's population to eradicate said beasties? I give it a month. And as for the Vampires building an army; you say, they're up to Mary Sue levels in power. If you had up to seven billion chocolate bars, and each with their unique flavor, and these chocolate bars tend to gather in groups and move really really slowly, would you actually bother amassing an army to corral these chocolate bars instead of casually picking one up and popping it into your mouth as you've been doing for years? Overkill.
*** Sure, it may be that way now, but the issue there is that this was their reason for going into hiding a good couple hundred years ago. When humans DIDN'T have bombs or the strength or resources to kill the vamps. There was literally nothing stopping them back then. WordOfGod made a comment about their choice to the effect of "who would want to be the king of cows?"
*** any rancher will tell you that having total control over cows, especially if you live in a culture where they're a primary food source, would be pretty fucking sweet.
** Humans had weapons more than 200 years ago. Granted, no nuclear weapons, but canons and muskets (sp?) and pistols. Maybe the vampires, who were obviously a minority, saw where this was going and decided to go into hiding.
** Ok, I actually have to defend Twilight here. While its true that, in the past, humans couldn't hurt vampires, its highly unlikely that the vampires could have put down a mass human uprising without KILLING US. The end result would have been destroying their food source.
*** Actually, they could. Even if we discount the simple 'restrain human with super strength, knock out with sedatives' method, several vampires have powers that are extremely conducive to nonfatal takedown. Zafrina, for example, can wreak havoc with a rebelling army's ability to fight with her illusions, Chelsea and her bond-making-and-breaking power can make the humans emotionally dependent on the vampires and distrustful of each other, Jane's pain-causing power doesn't leave a physical mark on whoever she chooses to hurt, Alec can deprive them of their senses, and Jasper can manipulate their emotions so that they're too complacent to fight.
** There's an [[anime ''Manga/SeraphOfTheEnd'']] where that happens

* James is said to have supernaturally keen senses and his sense of smell is acute enough to tell that a vampire wearing Bella's coat brushed against a tree to try and throw him off. If his sense of smell is THAT good, hitting him in the face with Mace or Pepper Spray should have overloaded his senses and sent him into catatonia or unconsciousness.
** Vampires can't lose consciousness.
** But they can be detered. Though, maybe they enjoy the scent of pepper spray, it's not like blood smells at all delicious to humans either.

* If newborns are so much more powerful, then why couldn't Bree protect herself when the Volturi tried to kill her?
** I don't think they're necessarily more powerful than any other vampires, they just have less control. They go into violent rages and are almost incapable of stopping themselves (except Bella, of course). As a result, they tend to inflict a lot more damage than older vampires that will pick their battles and feed with discretion in order to avoid being exposed to humans or get into that next big fight that might end with them being torn to pieces.
*** In short, they are Berserkers.
** On top of this, it seems that the Volturi are so feared specifically because they are so much more powerful than the average vampire and nearly all have special abilities. It wouldn’t make sense if they weren't more powerful than the newborns, at least. Why would anyone fear them.
*** No, younger vamps are definitely stated to be more physically powerful than older ones a number of times, example: Bella states in ''Breaking Dawn'' that despite Edward being able to move his legs quicker, she (being a newborn) was so powerful that one bound of hers equated to three of his, so she could keep up with him. The problem with Bree was that she was frozen with fear of the "Dark-Cloaks", given that they frightened even ''her'' (read: Victoria). As to why people would fear the Volturi a.) the abilities (Alec alone could probably incapacitate an army) b.) newborn strength can be countered effectively if you know how to fight them (hence Jasper training the Cullens) and I'm guessing the Volturi have had plenty of newborn fighting experience.
** In short, newborns are UnskilledButStrong and many of the older vampires are WeakButSkilled.[[/folder]]

[[folder:Venom]]
* Carlisle says that if Bella's heart stops, the venom can't save her and transform her into a vampire. But after Bella is ripped open from giving birth? Her heart stops before Edward injects her with his venom. And then it starts again. And then then the venom stops it again. What's up with this?
* The venom has to be pumped throughout the body. If the heart isn't beating, the venom goes nowhere. Once the venom has done its job though, it shuts down the heart.

* If Edward has no blood, how could he get an erection and have sex with Bella?
** Vampires do have blood. The usual argument for all vampires being impotent is that that have no heart beats and, therefore, no way to pump blood to their erections, but the physical biology of vampires is never clearly explained or unanimously decided upon by writers of fiction. Some series (not Twilight, but ones that actually feel they owe their readers an explaination) make a point of saying that vampires do have heart beats, but that those heart beats are far slower than that of a living person and grows slower and slower the longer they are "un-dead."
*** Really, if you think about it, it wouldn't make sense for vampires to have no form of circulation because they digest blood (if they didn't it would just sit in their stomachs and they would never need to feed) and if they digest something it has to move through their system some how. Going on that logic their having slower heart beats also makes more sense because, in most series, vampires seem to need to eat far less often than humans. Also, usually when a vampire gets cut blood gushes out, this would not happen if they didn't have some form of circulation.
*** Also vampires in fiction are constantly doing things that require flowing blood ''like walking around''. It doesn't really make sense to accept "supernatural" as an explanation for that, but not for erections.
*** I'm fairly certain that Twilight vampires don't have blood. They get torn into pieces left and right during fight scenes and there's never a speck of blood anywhere. I'm chalking this one up to "Meyers fails at biology forever."
*** The Venom acts like blood. In the movies it shown that turns to dust or powder upon contact with air but is more of an stylistic choice for a PG13 series than failing biology.
*** I'm pretty certain that the vampires don't have blood. This troper remembers an interview with SM that said that her vampires couldn't reproduce; she changed her mind obviously. This is the reason why Rosalie can't have children because her body is frozen and so her uterus and pelvic region cannot change to adapt to a growing baby. So I believe this was an oversight on Meyer's part. Meyer's Vampires don't have blood, and also any food her vampires eat IS left sitting in their stomachs. Edward says to to Bella, and tells her that if he eats human food he has to upchuck it later. Keep in mind that these are Meyer's vampires, not just regular vampires. All their bodily juices are supposed to be venom. So, if he got a venom-powered erection, it is doubtful that Bella wouldn't become a vampire from his... e hem... fountain of life.

* How does Edward suck the venom out of Bella? Twilight vampires don't have fangs, so their transforming venom isn't injected that way. It's in their saliva, transferred to the victim as they're sucking blood. So James was drinking Bella's blood, but then Edward puts his venomous, saliva-filled mouth to the same wound and sucks the blood AND venom out. But how does he not end up putting his own venom in Bella in the process of doing so?
** Smeyer answered this many times. Edward sucked with his lips puckered, or better yet, with his lips covering his teeth, no tongue. He got not venom in her because none of his fluid touched her.
*** That's not possible. Without a coating of saliva on the lips, you can't form a seal in order to create a negative pressure in your mouth that would draw the blood and venom in against the force of gravity and the heart. I

* So say Emmett's sucking down some poor bears blood when suddenly HOLY CRAP ENEMY VAMPIRE TRYING TO KILL ME!!! Emmett (or any other 'vegetarian' vampire) is distracted from his meal and the bear (or any other animal) is not dead but it has been bitten. Does the bear then become a vampire bear?
** ...yes
** Maybe the venom would kill the animal? I mean, you would think that for all the millennia that vampires have been alive, there would have been some cases of vampiric-beasts running around if vampires could change animals.
*** There's a decent chance the Cullens wouldn't have noticed. They do have a history of being superficial and self-absorbed. The thing about impregnating humans never even occurred to them, even with at least three MDs between them.
*** Word Of God already confirmed the venom is only compatible with humans. If an animal is bitten, it dies.

* In ''Breaking Dawn'', Renesmee's bites are described as non-venomous. However, Nahuel, another {{Dhampyr}}, is said to have turned his aunt. So does the status of a Meyerdhampyr venom differ on a case-by-case basis or is this another example of inconsistencies?
** When did he turn her? Dhampyr venom may manifest post puberty or maybe only in males.
** Original Tropette here: According to the ''Twilight'' wiki, Nahuel turned his aunt soon after birth.
** Well, doesn't Renesmee turn Bella? Maybe they have venom before and soon after birth but lose it later.
** Only the males are venomous. And it's Edward who turns Bella.
** There only had been one male hybrid and that male is venomous. Smeyer hasn't explained if this is a coincidence or only males can have venom.
*** Since it seems to be inherited from the father (in such a union, the vampire is always the father and the human always a mother), maybe SMeyer would say something like venom is a Y-chromosome thing. Y'know, like an interest in cars, being unable to cook their own food, and losing their temper.
*** Edward cooks better than Bella. HATERFAIL
** There's something like six female hybrids and one male hybrid outside of Renesmee. Only Nahuel is venomous. Thats approx. 7 non-venomous girls and one venomous male. Its quite likely that only males are venomous (though random chance is still possible too)
*** Only 5 hybrids for females and one male. You could say also that vampire unions produce more girls than boys.
*** Or maybe the girls are more likely to survive to term, because most male hybrids envenomate their mothers while still in the womb. Nahuel's mother was lucky to have lasted long enough to give birth to him.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:The Volturi]]
* Why in the world was Edward so antagonistic and rude to the Volturi in ''New Moon''? He had absolutely no ground to stand on. He was just about to try and expose the vampire secret. While hedidn’t do that, now Bella was in the picture—a human in the know who is not dead or changed, and Edward was making it clear he didn't want her dead or changed. The Volturi are not in the wrong at all in this case. EDWARD BROKE THE RULES. But Aro was being kind, and didn't want to have Edward, Alice, and Bella all killed for breaking their one rule, and Edward's response is to get up in his face? Not only does the situation not fit, but it doesn't seem to fit with the history established in ''Twilight''. Carlisle is quite friendly with them. Edward and Alice have never met these people before in their entire lives. The Volturi have done nothing to offend the Cullens—in fact, one of Aro’s main reasons for not killing Edward was because it would upset Carlisle. So why is it that Edward and Alice were nothing but nasty, rude, and aggressive to them? Because they eat people? Edward doesn’t think that’s wrong. Neither does Alice. And they are best buds with other vampires who do eat people. Why are we all suddenly hating on the Volturi?!
** One of Edward's main character traits is arrogance. I think his behaviour in Volterra is quite in line with that.

* Why does Aro take no particular effort to shield his or anyone else's thoughts from Edward in ''Breaking Dawn''? Aro knows how his ability works and therefore how to hide thoughts from it (which was done in ''Eclipse''), but just hangs out on the field, blatantly broadcasting the Volturi's plans to the telepath.

* Bella assumes that, when the Volturi come for the Cullens, Demetri will be tracking Edward, since he won't be able to track Bella, and Edward is the only other Cullen he knows. Except there was a third member of the Cullen family who attended the Volturi tea party in ''New Moon''. Aro really wants Alice as part of his coven, remember? The text even downplayed the fact that he wants Edward as well. Aro wants Alice more than anything on the planet. Edward said it, and he’s the mind-reader. He knows. Aro doesn’t know that Alice left. If he is coming to acquire members of the Cullen coven and kill off the unnecessary ones, why would he have Demetri go after one of the Cullens Meyer has stated he doesn’t want nearly as much as, you know, Alice?
** And here’s another question. The process of elimination from those who visited Volterra fails because Demetri was there in ''Eclipse''. He has been in contact with every single one of the Cullens and so could track any one of them he wanted. That being the case, maybe Aro does know that Alice left. All he’d have to do is have Demetri focus on them as a whole and he’d know they had gone in different directions. In that case, why would he head to the Cullens and not go after Alice? I ask again—why would he track anyone but Alice? She’s the one he’s supposed to be after.

* Why does everyone instantly assume that the Volturi will not pause to hear out the Cullens in ''Breaking Dawn''? That's all they have ever done, in both ''New Moon'' and ''Eclipse''. They have consistently waited to hear the truth before acting.

* This has to do with the film version of Breaking Dawn Part 2.[[spoiler: Why doesn't Aro just pick a fight, though this time avoiding ''what'' led to his death in the battle]]?
** Probably because he's pretty much screwed either way, and [[spoiler: even if he ''does'' decide to avoid making the mistakes he made, there'll still be room for him to screw up]].
** Parodied [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Pjiaxz914 here]]
** Because not is his goal out of reach [[spoiler:(Jacob will leave with Renesmee before the fight starts, and between Jacob's speed/fighting prowess and the number of defenders left behind, none of the Volturi would be able to secure Renesmee)]] but he has no way of unscrewing himself [[spoiler:(any new plan he makes, Alice will see and counter)]]. In the end, the only option open to him is to tuck tail and retreat.

* So, Aro keeps Marcus on because he has a useful power. Aro himself is a mastermind who also has a useful power. Then...there's Caius. He doesn't show any useful power; in fact, he seems to have no special power at all. On top of that, he's extremely belligerent. You'd think that a group whose plan relies on ''subtlety'' wouldn't pick a total hothead as one of its leaders. And if he does have some awesome power that we don't know of, ''what could possibly be Meyer's motive for not telling us?''
** I don't know about the first half of the question, now that you mention it, but a possible motive could be leaving herself a backdoor to come ''up'' with a good explanation for keeping Caius on hand. Y'know, somewhere down the line.
*** Since she's apparently done with the series I doubt it. From what the wiki says he was impressed with his hatred for the Romanian vampires and that's why he got his position. Personally I had a moment of FridgeBrilliance while working at the movie theatre today (my god, opening night those girls '''squealed''' when Jacob took his shirt off. It was deafening) that Caius is kept around specifically to make Aro look more compassionate and friendly in comparison, as a better disguise for the fact that he's easily the eviliest of the lot.

* Upon reading Edward's mind in ''Breaking Dawn'', Aro finds out everything... [[spoiler: ''except'' that Bella has a powerful shielding power which she has been using pretty successfully on others.]] Bella even mentions several times how good it is that Aro hasn't figured it out yet, basically pointing out the PlotHole. Is there any explanation for this?
** Aro only knows Bella's power is limited to Edward and people close to her, similar to his own shield. Bella discovered she could extent her shield in the battlefield. Edward didn't knew this so Aro was not prepared to get Jane and Alec blocked by her powers.
*** How did Edward not know that? Didn't part of Bella's training to learn how to control her shield involve him being attacked over and over until Bella got it right?
*** But the point was that despite this practice, bella was still having difficulty protecting just Edward (even when she was clinging to him, i.e. he was right next to her). When Aro read Edwards mind, Edward was still under the impression that Bella was still strugling to do that, at that point only Bella knew she was protecting everyone - BECAUSE SHE FOUND OUT A FEW SECONDS AGO
[[/folder]]

[[folder:The War Against the Newborns]]
* In Eclipse during the training montage, why do the wolves show up just to listen to Jasper give a speech and then stand around watching while the vampires spar? Wouldn't it have been better for them to get some hands on (or I guess paws on) experience fighting vampires?
** Explained in-universe as the wolves not trusting their ability to fully restrain themselves when fighting against the Cullens. Instead they just get the theory part of the lecture.

* Also, regarding the speech itself, why aren't any of the were wolves or vampires (even the speech giver himself) ever shown using any of the advice given there-in? The battle with the new born army didn't look tactical at all, they didn't beat the enemy by being smarter or more well prepared, they just ran straight at them and ether bludgeoned them or ripped them apart that's not superior tactics or training it's just pure brute force. It would have been really nice to have actually seen some of Jasper's supposed tactical skill in action, but since we didn't the training montage just felt like unnecessary padding.
** Just another case of ShowDontTell on Smeyer's part. She says that Jasper is a tactical genius, and we're supposed to take her word for it despite the fact that the battle is full-out HollywoodTactics. The Podcast/RiffTrax for the movie {{Lampshades}} this by pointing out that all the vampires' "tactics" consist of running directly at the enemy.
** Actually, the tactics used in the movie demonstrate perfectly that everyone was paying attention. The maneuver used at the opening of the battle was the basic attack used by the US Army: a group charges directly through, causing what damage they can, and when they get past, a second group attacks from the flank. Also, thanks to Jasper's lessons, the wolves and the Cullens knew where to strike on the newborns. Rather than wasting time going for limbs, most of their attacks were aimed directly at the head. More importantly, he told them what ''not'' to do, such as leaving a wounded newborn in order to attack another one or trying to 'wrestle' with them with holds and such.

* Going back to the battle again, why was so much hype given to the new borns being this big, powerful threat? It didn't look like the Cullens or the were wolves had any trouble just ripping them apart with their bare hands and the battle didn't even last that long and was pretty one sided in terms of casualties especially when you consider that the new born army had the advantage of far greater numbers.
** As above, the Cullens had reinforcements (the werewolves) as well as a battleplan and the fact that the newborns were rarely, if ever, seen fighting as a cohesive group. While the Cullens and wolves were willing to help each other, each newborn was basically fighting alone.

* Why don't any of the vampires at the end of ''Eclipse'' use swords? Sledgehammers? Why doesn't Jasper use his emotions-manipulating powers to lull some National Guardsmen at a depot and hook them up with some claymore mines. The newby-pires are just going to charge in on a straight line...why not blow them up? Why don't they have some marksmen with depleted uranium shells? Why don't they have Alice, sit behind a Minigun and rain 3000 rounds per minute at the space where the vampires are ''going to be?''

* Victoria's goal is to hurt Edward as much as possible by killing Bella, and takes advantages of holes in Alice's precognition by using Riley as a catspaw and delaying decisions until the last possible moment. So in that part of Eclipse where Riley goes to her house to collect clothes that have Bella's scent on them, why doesn't Victoria give him plastic explosives in a box and a note instructing him to hide the bomb in the house somewhere, and tell him not to read the note until he's at the house? That way, no on "makes the decision" to kill Bella until it's potentially too late to do anything about it, and neither Edward nor any other vampire considered a mundane thing like a bomb much of a threat: Edward searches the house for the other vampire, but not, say, a box hidden beneath a pile of clothes in Bella's closet.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Werewolf Questions (Not Related to Imprinting)]]

* When the werewolves draw up their plan of attack on the Cullens in ''Breaking Dawn'', Sam assesses that Edward is the greatest threat because of his mind-reading abilities, and plans to take him on himself. He believes Jasper is the second-greatest threat, and assigns Jacob to fight him. What kind of sense does this make? Yes, Edward is a dangerous opponent because he can read your mind and see what you're going to do before you do it, but this ability can and has been blocked before. With enough concentration, you can keep him out and he has no other special edge over you. Jasper, though? You 'cannot' block Jasper, and if he put his mind to it, he could make the entire back sluggish and sleepy and apathetic or lull them into complacency or sympathy just long enough for the Cullens to kill the entire pack. He's also the one who is an established psychopath and who was the Grand High Executioner and General of Maria's newborn army and spent decades cutting a swath of destruction and murder across Texas and Mexico. Which of the two is more dangerous again?

* Apparently, Quileutes are the only people who can shapeshift. UnfortunateImplications aside, how does it work? Interracial marriages exist and have always existed. What if a Quileute person (of any gender) marries a non-Native American person of the opposite sex, and they have a son? Would he be a shapeshifter or not? Hell, forget interracial marriages, there are many different Native American tribes. What if a Quileute marries a native of another tribe (Cherokee, Navajo, etc.)?
** Who says they're the only people who can shapeshift? The books rarely extend out much further from the same town and it's surronding areas and the story takes place over maybe two years, and Meyer barely details what goes on outside of her main leads. Probably easiest to assume that there are other shifters and the author thought they weren't interesting enough to write about.
** It's mentioned that one of Jacob's best friends and a shapeshifter has a mother from a different tribe, so -presumably only one parent needs to be a Quileute of the appropriate bloodlines.

* On a somewhat related note, what about Leah? She is said to be the only female shapeshifter ever. So, how come? Is she a lesbian, an intersex, something else? Is it ever explained?
** There's no 'definitely correct' answer, but there are a few theories thrown around in-universe. Here's what we know for sure: Leah and Seth's father, Harry is the son of one of the original members that made a pact with the Cullen's. Harry is also, along with the other tribe elders[[note]]Jacob's dad, Bill and Sam's dad who's name I forget[[/note]], descendant from the myth's tribe[[labelnote:friendly note]]the myth is mentioned in an above headscratcher[[/labelnote]]. It's said that the current tribes ancestors gained shape-shifting abilities to help fight off vampires, which now arise in their descendants whenever there is a possible vampire threat. It's that bloodline relation that allows Jacob, Quill, Embry, etc. to shape-shift. Leah wonders if she's able to change because she was unable to have children prior to her becoming a shape-shifter. Imprinting is meant as a sort of defense system that ,in theory, helps find a mate and carry on a line of shape-shifters that protect the tribe. If Leah was unable to have kids, she would A)be unlikely to have someone imprint on her and B)still have a blood connection to the curse[[note]]I'm henceforth using "curse" as a way to refer to whatever it is that gave them the ability to shape-shift[[/note]]. In Leah's theory the curse caused her to shape-shift in place of any children she may have had. Another in-universe explaination is that there weren't enough fit males with that bloodline needed to theoretically handle the current threat, so Leah changed as well. She can't have children now because of the shape-shifting ability. It's thought that if she shifted into wolf-form while pregnant the baby would be injured, therefor the curse outright prevents her from currently having children. Once the immediate threat to the tribe is gone she would, theoretically, be able to have children because the shape-shifting would halt as the curse 'lies dormant' again.
** I believe it's explained in other media (guides, official family trees, etc) that Leah gets the bloodlines from both sides of her tree. Harry Clearwater is a given previously-manifested line, but according to the first line on [[http://twilightsaga.wikia.com/wiki/Sue_Clearwater Sue Clearwater's wikipage]], Sue was an Uley (Sam's last name, which provides a little bit of {{Squick}} for the doomed third-cousin ship Sam/Leah for some readers) before marriage.

* One problem that I just cannot get out of my head is that of the werewolf origin myth, specifically the actions of the wife. First, she kills herself rather than, say, slicing her palm or cheek or some other non-fatal area. If the vampire was so bloodlusty as to have slaughtered an entire village, you'd think it wouldn't take all that much to distract her. Second, there are literally bodies piled up around her (In the film at least, not certain about the book). She has to have spilled liters of blood by now, and still be smelling it, and yet the addition of just a tiny bit more distracts her from her fight long enough for the werewolf to kill her. Although, maybe the wife just had the same Fresh Steak Blood™ as Bella.
** Because if she didn't kill herself it would have been less dramatic.
** ''Freesia''-blood, dear, it makes all the difference.
** But in that case, a simple cut would have worked perfectly well and the self-harm wouldn't have needed to be fatal.
** The wife didn't know how fast the wolves would kill the vampire, and she likely didn't know how strong the reaction to her blood would be. She had the quick thought that she could be a distraction, and decided to kill herself and give everyone else a chance to live.
*** Also because, you know, it's a ''myth''. We never get a first hand account. Having hyperbole in a myth that's only passed down through oral recounts is very realistic.

* On the same note as the question above, why was the woman in the story allowed to bleed out? it doesn't happen instantly,why didn't anyone try to apply pressure to the wounds before she bled to death? or why didn't she herself try to apply pressure to the wounds once she saw that cutting herself had had the desired effect? did she ''want'' to die?
** Apparently. From what I remember she stabbed herself in the heart. I don't think applying pressure will help much.
*** On the other hand, how was she to pull the knife out so she could bleed profusely and distract the vampire? Her heart was practically exploded and all her muscles relaxed. It would have been more efficient to open an artery or, if she really was suicidal, cut her own throat.
** Ok then, why does she stab herself in the heart? As the commenter above explained, that would have impaired blood flow and even if you're going to use the argument that she didn't know that and was probably panicked at the time it still doesn't make any sense because she'd still want to use the quickest method and stabbing someone in the heart is pretty difficult (I imagine stabbing yourself in the heart would be even harder) it still would have been far easier and faster for her to just cut her wrist or throat (and it's common knowledge that those areas contain arteries.) Plus, even if she were desperate to save her husband and panicked and all that, you'd think she still wouldn't want to kill herself and would posses enough sense to realize that there are plenty of ways for a person to make them self bleed without dieing. Really, in the end, it reads as her having been suicidal and waiting or an excuse to end it all (which the vampire attack provided her with.)
** The real question is, why didn't Bella stab herself in something more vital than the arm? If she had, she would have had to be turned to save her life, which is what she wanted.
*** Jasper explained to her that having her as newborn in the middle of the battle was more of a problem than a solution and if she miscalculated and died Edward will kill himself.
** In-universe it's been handed down and retold by members of the tribe. I would think that it this point it's a fictional story based on real events. We don't know exactly how it happened, and I would guess that "stabbed in the heart" sounds a lot more meaningful and symbolic than "cut an artery" or something closer to what could have happened.

* What was the point in calling the werewolves in Meyer's world "shapeshifters"? While they may not turn at a wolf on a full moon, don't really see why she would care. Just look at how she raped Vampire folklore, I don't think she would care about werewolf mythology either.
** The closest guess I can give is that she didn't want her so-called 'shape-shifters' to be the monsters that werewolves are made out to be, chucking away prospects like slaughtering the ones they love when the full moon shines down or being killed by silver. But then again, it's only a guess.
*** My guess is that when she continues to write the books from Leah and Renesmee POV, she might have a last real werewolf storyline/character to be part of the story and needed to make a differentiation to plant the seed of it, again just a guess.
*** Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that "real werewolves" had been [[TheWorfEffect hunted to near extinction]] by the Volturi [[InformedAbility in an attempt to show just how badass the Volturi were supposed to be]]?
*** Why not just make it that the tribe was one of the few werewolves left? It's seems Meyer just wanted to create some small, instantly solvable conflict between the Volturi and the Quileute tribe.
*** Or she plans to introduce the last real werewolf on future stories. Maybe he would be Leah's love interest, given that is odd that she left her unpaired, specially on this books.
** According to Meyer's FAQ, the thing with the werewolves/shapeshifters was just a loophole brought up so that the Volturi wouldn't have an excuse to launch an attack. She said that under most circumstances, everyone ''would'' just go with it and call the Quileutes "werewolves", they only used the shapeshifter card for the Volturi.
*** Honestly, it just sounds pointless. Why not call them shapeshifters in the first place then? If they are shapeshifters and not werewolves, then why do they only transform into wolves? And what's with taking creatures and giving them completely different labels? Her shapeshifters are werewolvess and her vampires are fairies...why not just call them what they are?
*** Because even in the more legit supernatural world there is debate over the difference between shapshifters and werecreatures. Werecreatures are often described as only turning into a human-animal hybrid (like the Harry Potter movie werewolves) while shapshifters are more consistantly creatures that change from a fully human form into a fully animal form. Not all shapeshifter lore allows them to change into anything.
*** They drink blood, and propagate their species via biting humans. If she had called them anything but vampires, the haters would be saying "Pffft, just a fancy name for a vampire. Stop pretending they're anything else." They would mockingly call the Cullens vampires, the same way Avatar-haters refer to the Navi as "blue elves" or "smurfs".

* How the heck do the werewolves get the energy they need to transform. All I ever saw was four of them eating muffins! True, a large pile of muffins, but is that it? Is that where the food budget for this poor tribe goes?
** I'm pretty sure they do a lot of hunting. There's a lot of energy in matter if you can convert it differently than via combustion.
*** Also muffins are suprisingly high in calories and fats. Depending on the muffin, they can have everything from simple sugars to protien, complex carbohydrates and fruits all wrapped up in two or three muffins. Of course, muffins do not have much of that stuff to proportionally (High protien muffins will also likely have a lot trans and saturated fats in them) So it might be less of a problem with fuel, and more that werewolves... erm, shapeshifters process macro nutrients differently than normal people.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Other Headscratchers]]
* From a single glance through a half mile across a snowy landscape, Bella is able to notice every detail about Irina's appearance, down to the expression on her face. Why wasn't Irina, also a vampire, not able to notice: 1) Renesmee's brown, non-vampire eyes, 2) Renesmee's flushed, non-sparkly, non-vampire skin, 3) Renesmee's wrong proportions that don't make her look like a child 4) Renesmee clearly hunting animals, indicating that she's been taught to eat them instead of humans, which goes against the established lore about the Immortal Children and how they couldn't be taught, and 5) the fact that she is very plainly and obviously Bella and Edward's daughter because she's outwardly an even split of her parents? If Irina had noticed even one of these details, she would not have made the leap to conclude that the Cullens had made an Immortal Child

* In chapter 26 of ''Breaking Dawn'', Renesmee leaps 15 feet up into the air to catch and display an eight pointed snowflake. How? Snowflakes have six points because of the shape of the water molecule. There is a 104.45 degree angle between the two hydrogen atoms, and in forming the hydrogen bonded lattice with the neighboring oxygen molecules when freezing, ice crystals are incapable of being anything but hexagonal. How does Renesmee have a "perfectly-formed eight-pointed" snowflake? LIFE BEGAN ON THIS PLANET BECAUSE WATER MAKES SIX-POINTED SNOWFLAKES!!!!
** It symbolizes her being an extra-special snowflake. Even Bella was probably only a septagon snowflake.

* Why was Carlisle sliding during the baseball game? The ball was in the outfield and the outfielders were smashing into each other. Why didn't he run home?
** Vampire baseball is like Quidditch, but instead of pretending to be cricket American football it pretends to be baseball.

* This just occurred to me, but what is with Google in the Meyer Univers? When Bella suspects there's something wierd about the Cullins (as anybody with two working braincells should've figured out) she goes to Google and apparently digs up anough credible info to confirm her suspicions and narrow it down to him being a vampire. Then, once she's pregnant with a supposedly impossible being, Carlisle goes to Google to look up vampire hybrids. I'm sure there's other examples of Google I'm just not remembering right now. Why does GOOGLE have the inside scoop on a society that has ruthlessly worked to remain hidden for centuries? And why is it pulling up apparently scholarly sources rather than a load of Nosferatu and Vampire Hunter D references?
** Most people this age would use Google to look up info they don't know. It's more convenient than going out to a library to find it or asking around until you find that one person that knows everything about the topic you're curious about. Vampires also weren't always a "secret race". They used to be hunted by humans and openly attack and feed on those humans. It's not impossible for people who saw those vampires to pass down stories of them. As for scholarly sources... do we know that they were actually scholarly sources? I don't recall if the books ever said what the websites were. It's possible it got her an article from wikipaedia or monsterpaedia, which I hardly consider to be scholarly, and she just skipped mentioning all of the fictional vampire character results it gave her. As for Carlisle's use of Google, he was born in a time vampires were not secret, so he could have logically thought that some human saw something at some time and spread that story which some kid could have put on the internet (like all the other stories related to mythical creatures). However, WHY the Cullens didn't do more research when Google turned up "nothing"... well the Cullens are idiots.
** Given Google's popularity with the homework-laden sector of the population, its presence only proves further that Twilight was written by a teenager.

* One thing that bothers me is just the numerical question of the people eaten by teh vampires... in this saga it seems that a vampire feeding can result in ONLY two cases... New vampire or dead human. It's going to take WAAAY little time to start making a dent in the population of ANY place... How often do this vampire need to feed... Another one is the fact that in a healty human it takes LESS than 20 second for the blood to make a FULL circuit of the body... Bella should have been a vampire right from the time she got bitten by James [As it took them definitely MORE than that to start doing anything.]


* The whole "forbidden fruit" angle that gets played up. Where does this come up? I read the first book, and, well, nobody makes any active effort to keep Edward and Bella apart. The romance is played up as "forbidden" but I haven't seen much sign of it.
** Edward provides pretty much all of the "forbidden fruit" drama by refusing to sleep with Bella unless they get married and refusing to make her a vampire despite the fact that there isn't any downside to being a vampire in this series ([[spoiler: which is further proven by the fact that even after Edward does turn Bella she absolutely loves being a vampire and never experiences any regrets]].) Basically all of the tension and conflict in the story come from Edward being an angsty little drama queen.
** He also acts as though the fact that he's a vampire means that they can't be together despite the fact that all but one member of his entire vampire family adore Bella the instant they meet her and go out of their way to be supportive of the relationship (makes you wonder why he thought that in the first place) and goes on and on to Bella about how dangerous he is while simultaneously (usually literally within the same breath) reassuring her that she is completely safe with him and he would never hurt her or let any harm come to her...he also warns Bella to stay away from him while simultaneously stalking her. Really, the person who does the most to get in the way of Bella and Edwards relationship is Edward. If you removed all the parts of the story where the only problem is a problem that Edward intentionally created for no apparent reason other than that he was desperate to make drama where there was none, the series would have been about half its original length and the first book could have been distilled down to a two or three chapters.

* Something I've never really understood. The wolves have body temps of about 106 or 108 or whatever it is. This is supposed to be so they can go out in the cold and still be warm, right? However, if you've ever been sick with a really high fever, you know that ''everthing'' feels ten times colder than it normally does. The book even talks about this at one point, with Edward's mother! She was dying of the flu and Carlisle said that her fever was so high that she didn't notice how cold he was. It's always bugged me.

* The climax of the first book. There are seven good vampires against two bad ones. Of those seven vampires, one can read minds, one can see the future and one can alter emotions. The only way the Cullens could possibly have the disadvantage is if they split up. Which they do. Instead of running around, why not just make some sort of trap for James and Victoria? For instance, they knew that James would go to Bella's house, so why not just ambush him there and be done with it?
** Laurent told them he was unstoppable and they were in Forks trying to lure them down quietly without involving any innocent bystander was the first line of defense. Everything got messed up after that of course.
** Because Meyer realized a little late that she needed to fit in some real conflict somewhere amidst the romance.

* If vampires can't bear children through traditional means, why don't they just bite a few kids and "adopt" them that way?
** Because they'd be stuck in child bodies forever.
** Immortal children are executed, along with their creator. Although nothing stopping them from just raising normal kid's and changing them upon adulthood...
*** The guide says that some families actually chose someone to be turned into a vampire so there is that.
*** Besides the fact that children normally tend to get into accidents. Involving blood. Which sets vampires into a frenzy. Not to mention that kids aren't the best at keeping secrets, and saying the wrong thing at the wrong time could bring more attention to the 'parents.'

* Why in the world would the Cullens choose a town like Forks to live normal lives? SMeyer admitted she just did a quick Google search on the area (but the flaws behind her findings are a whole different post) but why didn't she just move them to a big city where it would have been so much easier to go unnoticed? A small town like Forks is ripe with gossip and they're actually more likely to get noticed and talked about (as we saw in 'Twilight') than if they were in a larger city where, lets face it, people barely notice anything not related to their own lives.
** Well, I'm not a fan of the series or anything, but I think it's because Forks was the most overcast place in America so they could go outside more often than in a big city. I assume that it's also because they live so long, they've lived in big cities before. And that Jasper dude who is the youngest, he is still at risk of cracking and attacking a human, right? So it's best to live in a place with a smaller population while he's training or whatever, so he won't be overwhelmed by all the fresh meat. I think that's probably a better argument than the overcast-town one, because I live in a place that's famous for being foggy more than any other place in the country, but it's still bright blue skies pretty darn often.
** Also, they name of the town is Forks, and thus represents a "crossroads" for Bella.

* [[FridgeLogic Did I miss something or will Bella will live her eternity with her bloody stomach in pieces?]] I mean, Smeyer told that when someone becomes a vampire, their body freeze in time somehow, which means they can't heal, and didn't Bella became a vampire [[NightmareFuel when Edward was tearing her belly apart to make her give birth?]]
** Nah, the venom conveniently heals everything. That's why Esme, who jumped off a cliff, is not eternally confined to her bed. And Emmett was mauled by a bear, but he's fine now, obviously.
*** Sure, it heals obvious wounds, but not more long term things like weight problems. Alice is stick thin from her time in the asylum. Bella was described as being gaunt and horrific with a bulging stomach, so technically she should still look all house-of-horrors after the turn. Of course, this is Bella we're talking about, so her inexplicably perfect body is probably just another case of reality warping itself to suit her needs.
*** Bella's body was damaged by the pregnancy so the venom put it back to her normal state. I don't think Alice was thin for the time in the asylum but because she is small framed. The only thing she kept was her short hair.
*** Also vampires by definition in Twilight are meant to look physically perfect- their bodies not changing ensues after said transformation.
*** The transformation restores your body to perfect health, including your ideal weight. Siobhan was big, not obese.

* Question - If Edward can foresee that leaving Bella will make her do insanely stupid crap to get herself killed and/or to see Edward again, why does he decide that that's a better plan? The worst thing that could happen if he stays with her is that Bella gets turned into a vampire, and even that's pretty unlikely from what we've seen of her resilience (and having a vampire doctor nearby doesn't hurt. But, if he leaves her, chances are that both Bella and he will DIE.
** Actually Edward imagined that Bella will be sad, but like any normal teenager she will get over it. He never guessed she will get herself killed over him and actually she didn't - the accident happened when she did something reckless but she wasn't planning suicide. If she did Alice would had warned Edward and he had never would had left. The fact that she never actually planned on hurting herself is the missing link on his plan.
*** There's no reason he couldn't have Alice look ahead for Bella's ultimate reaction, but then reason was never his strong point.
*** To many choices. Alice's power gets messy with many choices at once. All Edward needed to know is that Bella will live and remain human, that was true.
*** He made Bella promise to look after herself specifically so this wouldn't happen. The fact that he believed she'd keep herself safe is on her, but then neither of them saw that she'd hear him whenever she was in a dangerous situation (whether she thought it was dangerous or not - notice that when she argues with Jacob, she sees no danger but she still hears it).

* How exactly is the live action version of Edward hot? I know little of these books, but his actual book self seems appealing. Robert however turns him into UnintentionalUncannyValley.
** UnintentionalUncannyValley isn't the same for everyone. The fact that many girls find him hot is enough. He doesn't have to be as hot as described in the book, as that's just Bella's description.
*** If it helps, when Robert Pattinson first got the part, a lot of fans were not pleased and thought he wasn't "hot" enough.
*** He doesn't look particularly boyish, either, which is how he was described in the books - he looked younger than the other Cullens because he was turned at the youngest age (All the other Cullens are physically past high school age, except possibly Rosalie).

* How come The Second Life of Bree Tanner is told in past tense and first person if the narrator dies at the end?
** Maybe because that's how she normally writes and she didn't want to be a spoiler?
*** Keeping out spoilers seems a bit silly, given how anyone who's read ''Eclipse'' (which one would think would be the case with most of her fans) would already know most of what goes on with Bree.

* It just bugs me that when the Truck is delivered to Bella upon arriving in Forks, the Jacob and Billy Black don't bring a ride home. Did they walk--well, wheel--there?
** Wasn't Jacob only 15 at that point? He wouldn't have been old enough to drive, at most he'd have had a learner's permit. And the reason Bella gets the truck is that Billy can't drive it any longer because of his accident, isn't it? Perhaps they didn't bring another vehicle because they couldn't actually drive it home. Maybe Charlie took them home? I can't remember :P
*** You can get a learner's permit in Washington at 15.
*** Jacob drove Billy later in the story, when they came over. Charlie mentioned it, saying he was going to pretend he didn't see Jacob at the wheel, to which he said "We get permits early on the rez". Probably not true, but either way, sounds like he usually drives.
*** Disabled people can still drive- they just use hand controls instead of pedals. So who knows? Charlie probably drove them home.
*** Obviously disabled people can still drive, but they would have to be in a vehicle set up with hand controls instead of pedals. The reason Bella got that specific car is because Billy could no longer drive it, it's not set up to accommodate his disability. That's the reasoning given for Charlie buying the truck from him. How they got home, though, is a mystery!
*** It didn't directly involve Bella, and therefore was of no importance whatsoever.
*** There is a line where Jacob claims to Charlie that he can legally drive at 15 on the reservation. Charlie doesn't buy it, but also doesn't arrest him, for some reason.

* In the new novella, Victoria is apparently hiding in a house in the woods. A house that's painted bright pink and blue and green and white and has elaborate trim and looks like a gingerbread cottage. For God's sake, '''''why'''''??? Why is there a house like that in the middle of the woods of Washington? Are there fairy tale [=LARPers=] or something? And why would Victoria live ''there''? It sounds like a house like that would just attract a ton of unwanted attention. Or was it Victoria the one who made the house look like that? Because again, ''why''? That's just stupid! It makes no sense at all!
** Makes perfect sense to me. Who would be expecting someone to be hiding there?
** But why is it there to begin with? Are there a lot of abandoned cottages in the woods around Forks? At least Bella and Edward's dream home had the excuse that Esme fixed it up for them. Either someone built a brightly-painted storybook cottage in the middle of the woods, or Victoria painted it that way. Which leads again to the question of ''why''? Did she take time out of her meticulous revenge scheme to make her hideaway look like a Easter egg?
*** It could also be someone's vacation house, with her super sense she could had known how long there had not been humans around and she is smart making some questions, and doing some digging she might had know for how long the house was safe or in any case she could had just looked for a home of someone that would not be missed (and elderly couple, a loner that had few or none family and friends or with a habit of disappearing often enough that their loved ones wouldn't go looking for them till months passed, a drug dealer's hideaway...) and ate them to make space for herself. There are many ways to get a house once you are a merciless, smart and powerful killer.
*** There's a lot of oddballs living in the pacific northwest, not all of whom keep reliable contact with civilization in general. If the house isn't on a major road, it might be days or weeks between other people seeing it. Victoria eats people. I see no reason to assume that the cottage was abandoned when she found it, and if it's unreasonable to think she'd take time to make her hideout look like an Easter egg, it also seems like a good bet that she wouldn't take much time to make her hideout ''not'' look like an Easter egg, especially if she already chose a spot that was out of the way.
*** Dunno, maybe it's because all the books stress how boring and common and ordinary everyone in the area are. Perhaps that's why the thought of there being something like that is so odd...
** Actually sounds like a blatant Hansel and Gretel reference to me. (i.e. Victoria is the Cannibal witch, Bree and Diego or whomever the abandonned siblings.) It falls in line with the rest of Meyer's unsubtle use of all things metaphorical or allegorical.
*** Indeed, though one would think a...uh, literary shout-out should at least make some sense.

* Don't the vampires ever question their existence or wonder why they are the way they are?
** How many philosophers had existed in the world? I'm sure most vampires are average people trying to survive the deep thinking is scarce even among ourselves let alone their kind.
*** Do most humans really not question their existence or wonder why they are the way they are?
** Normal vampires are controlled by their thirst. Quenching it is like a drug: it makes them content and lazy. They don't really have time to think. The vegetarian vampires are different, but it's not like they have anyone they can go ask about all of this. The Volturi seem to be the only people who know anything, and they completely don't understand them. And even the Volturi are fallible: They didn't know a vampire could make a human pregnant under certain circumstances.
** The vampires, even the vegetarians like the Cullens, seem to be very hedonistic. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room in them for existentialism.

* So a dude who is over 100 years old wants to bang a 16-year-old girl? I've not read the books, does it address this at all?
** You really ought to read before posting a {{Headscratcher}}. Bella is seventeen in ''Twilight'' and eighteen by ''''New Moon''.'' She's legally old enough to consent to a relationship. Not mature enough, probably, but the law doesn't set limits on maturity.
** Technically Edward is also 17 years old. Sure, he's been 17 for awhile, but he's only 17. The book says they are stuck at that age. Also, he doesn't want to 'bang' her, it's the other way around, Bella wants to have sex with Edward, but he adamantly refuses until they get married.
*** Wrong. ''Technically'', Edward is over 100 years old. You seem to think that the phrase "Edward is 17 years old" means "Edward has the body of a seventeen-year-old." It doesn't. The sentence "Edward is 17 years old" is ''only'' true if he was born seventeen years ago and didn't exist before that. It really bugs me, the way people don't realize that sentences like "he's been 17 for many years" don't make sense. You can't be 17 for more than one year, after that year has passed you'll be eighteen. Being a century-old senior citizen who looks young doesn't make him technically seventeen, it just makes him a very old man who doesn't look that old. You might as well say that if an thirty-five-looking twenty-year-old man dates a fifty-year-old woman who looks young, then the fifty-year-old and the twenty-year-old are the same age.
*** Technically (what is this, the third one?), based on the mythology of the series Edward ''does'' have the body of a 17 year old. Specifically, he has the same unchanged body he had at the age of 17 the instant he was turned. He still has 90+ years of living experience on Bella.
*** Yes, that was the point the above person was making. He does have the body of a 17 year old. But that does not make him 17. In the words of John Green: "I want to explain why it's wrong for adults to have romantic relationships with teenagers. It's not because we look old. It's because we are old. It's not a question of the youngness and chiseled-ness of your pecs, it's a question of how many times you've been around the sun." Which, in the case of Edward, is 86 more times than Bella.
*** It's not age, exactly, that's the problem with adult/teen relationships; it's maturity and the unbalance of power. It's wrong because the adult knows a teen is not old enough to fully make good decisions or think about their consequences, so starting a relationship with one is like taking advantage of their inexperience. Despite being over 100 years old, Edward and the other teen-when-changed Cullen's seem to still mentally be teenagers. Edward has a tendency to be pretty serious and reserved, but I never got an "adult vibe" from his actions, behavior or dialogue; it's like his overall mentality hasn't changed in 100 years.
*** Stephenie Meyer does confirm in the ''Illustrated Guide'' that vampires don't mentally change at all after being transformed. So yes, Edward still should have the same 17-year-old mindset as he had when he was turned. Why a guy with a mind from his time period would be comfortable sitting lying on his girlfriend's bed while she sleeps is a different headscratcher altogether.
*** People in the past had co-slept with friends and even when they were engaged to be married. As long there was no baby making it was okay. No to mention that premarital sex in the past was not much of a sin as long as it was pre-marital. Edward's intentions with Bella were honorable from the get go.
*** There are A LOT of things that we have done in the past that were considered acceptable, but now aren't, because of advances in human rights, morality, technology, education, and so on. The human race marches on and whatnot. Sleeping with friends and sleeping with someone pre-martially is a lot different than sleeping with someone who's way younger than half your age.
** Edward and Bella [[LampshadeHanging lampshade]] that in the movie version of New Moon, but it's PlayedForLaughs:
-->'''Edward''': You're aging? I think eighteen is a little too young to start worrying about that.
-->'''Bella''': It's one year older than you.
-->'''Edward''': No, it's not. I'm one hundred and nine.
-->'''Bella''': Then maybe I shouldn't be dating such an old man. It's gross, I should be throughly repulsed.
** So if, say, he dated a 35 year old woman - she'd still be more than half a century younger than him, but she'd also be a 35 year old willing to have a relationship with a 17 year old. Not weird at all!
** An interesting point to make is that one of the possibilities Alice sees in ''Midnight Sun'' is Bella in her twenties, still dating Edward. That's what he would have liked the most.

* How do you look at someone like they're something to eat?
** ''Physically'': I think it's like looking at someone you want to bone, but with more drooling. \\
''Emotionally'': I think this what you actually meant, but I guess it's similar to looking at a woman you randomly woke up with. It's weird, freaky, and he's just trying to keep a straight face.\\
''Metaphorically'': Don't you get it, eating=sex! Edward is an intentional virgin. Do you realize how hard that can be at 17 and every girl is throwing themselves at you?

* Forgive me if this is pointed out in the books, but I still wonder: why ''did'' Bella move to Forks? I've only read the first chapter (The grammar errors irked me enough to stop, so I stopped). She outright said that "I detest Forks. I love Phoenix." at some point, and goes on several times on how Phoenix is so superior in every which way. Her mother even says when dropping her off at the airport that "You don't have to go", indicating that Bella wasn't forced this decision. So why, for the love of everything gracious, '''is she even moving there in the first place?''' If this isn't addressed later, not even as an ExcusePlot to it, then...why??
** Because her mother remarried and the new husband travelled a lot for his job, so it was more practical for Bella to live with her dad in Forks.
** She would have been able to move to Jacksonville later on if she'd wanted, but by that point she wanted to stay with her new relationship.

* Eclipse opens with a letter sent to Bella from Jacob, with a bunch of starts crossed out in a manner that doesn't make it at all difficult for anyone to read them. Why would he send the letter like that? Them being crossed out indicates he doesn't want to say what they say, but Bella can read what he said anyway now. Is there really no second piece of paper lying around his house? No pencils so he can erase his words instead of writing in ink? He can't actually scribble over them so they're genuinely illegible? Bella's clearly able to tell what one of the slashed out sentences said, so it's not like it's just made less scribbled so the audience can read.

* Why the hell would ''anyone'' believe that the Cullens are adopted? Every single one of them has exactly the same incredibly pale complexion, and every single one has an identical eye color found nowhere in humans. Carlisle and Esme do, too, but they're obviously not old enough for any of the "kids" to be theirs biologically, and ''no one'' questions this? From an outside perspective, this ''ought'' to look like a family of incestuous siblings who are pretending the two eldest are the parents. Why, over the course of four damn books, does not a single person actually wonder about that?

* I don't get why Royce King ended up killing Rosalie. He clearly sees her as an object, but an object with a specific purpose. He likes having her on his arm as a pretty toy, and to gain envy from other men. He wanted to marry her presumably so she could be a pretty toy to him long term. When she dies she can no longer fulfill that 'function'. In particular, in joining in with gang raping her, he's 'sharing' her with other men, and they can no longer envy him. Was he just that drunk enough to stop thinking rationally, or is he simply an idiot who doesn't know his own best interest?
** Probably a combination of being drunk and wanting to impress his friends. Maybe he didn't really think about it until afterwards, or maybe he didn't believe he'd hurt Rosalie that much, even though his friends thought she was dead. Or maybe he wanted to date someone else and used this as an excuse, which was apparently what happened in the gender-switched version - Rosalie's male counterpart was murdered by the man his fiancee actually wanted to marry.

* At the end of the first book, Bella is in the hospital recovering from "falling down two flights of stairs and out a window." Sure, this fabrication provides reasonable explanations for her having severe bruising, a serious head injury, and broken glass in her body. But how the hell did they explain away the giant, gaping bite mark on her wrist? In the film she's even shown with a bandage around her arm, so obviously it was tended to along with the rest of her wounds.
** Maybe she said that someone left his dentures on the stairs and they accidentally closed around her wrist while she was falling. It happens all the time.

* The Twilight series is often called a "Female Power Fantasy", both in defense of the book and as a criticism of it. I find this odd as once Bella meets her sparkly boyfriend she loses any power she ever had, and I'm not talking about superpowers (she does get some in book four but that's not the point). From the moment she starts dating Edward onwards, Bella loses all agency and control of her life and her entire world basically revolves around Edward. She is consistently manipulated by him, and later Jacob, and makes very few decisions on her own. So, I ask you, where the heck is the "power" in this "power fantasy?"
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*** The entire break-up was one bit IdiotPlot all around. One would think that someone [[InformedAbility supposedly]] as smart as Bella is should think "He spent all of our relationship saying how much he loved me and how he'd never leave, then he suddenly dumps me while saying he can find distractions so he won't think of me anymore. Either he was lying about all the times he loved me, making him a pretty big jerk, or he's lying now and trying to leave me for some noble reason." (Also adding to the insanity is that Bella is into Austen and the like. In all of those books, didn't anyone ''ever'' pull that same "I'm breaking up with my love to protect them" ploy? One would also think that Alice would just stop with the song-and-dance routine and ''tell'' Bella what happened, when she comes by at the end. (Yes, Edward probably told her not to tell, but you'd think Alice would tell anyway when she suspected that the breakup made Bella ''suicidal''.)

* Film-based Headscratcher-why didn't they just get an actual baby/child actor for Renesmee? It should cost far less than the CGI baby they made, who's only "benefit" was digging deeper into the UncannyValley

* How exactly is the live action version of Edward hot? I know little of these books, but his actual book self seems appealing. Robert however turns him into UncannyValley.
** UncannyValley isn't the same for everyone. The fact that many girls find him hot is enough. He doesn't have to be as hot as described in the book, as that's just Bella's description.

Welcome to the Twilight [[Headscratchers/HomePage Headscratcher]]. This is the page where you can ask about {{Plot Hole}}s and have someone who knows the series answer them. And, then, if their explanation doesn't make sense, you can come right back.\\

*** If you think about it, Twilight is ''The Sookie Stackouse Mysteries'' with all of the subtler inter-character conflicts ([[spoiler: like the fact that Bill originally had an ulterior motive in pursuing Sookie]]) removed and replaced with a vampire were wolf love triangle [[spoiler: which sort of happened in ''The Sookie Stackhouse Mysteries'', but was more of a minor sup-plot and wound up not really being integral to the story.]] You could tell which part of the story Meyer liked best.

** [[{{Squick}} Although the "dead blood" explanation makes no sense in RealLife, there is some argument that menstrual blood could be unappetizing, if not downright revolting. Menstrual blood is actual blood and tissue, so it's possible that the tissue might turn them off, like eating a hamburger with buns made of leather.]]

** Bella is obviously an introvert. In Forks where everyone is friendly is easy to hang out (its not like there are many things to do) but in Phoenix she was probably lost in a sea of social girls and probably didn't knew how to relate to them. I mean if she had to do all the chores in the house, pay the bills, do the shopping... she probably didn't had a lot to talk about with normal teenagers with real parents, either.

** Also cause Jacob TakesALevelInJerkass in the third book.