Headscratchers / Hawkeye (2021)

Weird time span thing in the Prologue

• In the opening scene that takes place during The Avengers (2012) during the part where the aliens first fly by the Bishop's penthouse, I thought that meant the invasion had just started at that point and as Kate is looking for her parents, the aliens do damage to the penthouse. She then looks out and sees them flying, and as one of them is heading towards her, it gets taken out by one of Clint's arrows. She then sees Clint jumping off the area where he was firing in the movie and then firing that grappling hook arrow. My question is that in the movie when he does that, it happens relatively deep into the battle, but for Kate, we see only a small amount of time pass between when the aliens first fly by and this. Is the reason why because either the aliens just didn't fly by her house until then or it took more time for her to walk around and look for her parents than we saw but that would have been boring to see?
  • The show can't have Kate looking out the window for 20 minutes so we can assume what we saw on screen was just a compressed version of those events.
  • Which would explain why Kate's parents "suddenly" disappeared. It seems odd that her dad was gone thirty seconds after leaving her room, but we can assume they left for the other side of the penthouse and were doing something else.

Trick Arrows

• Where did they get the trick arrows from in Episode 3? The only person to arrive with a quiver with Kate in Episode 2, there was no indication she'd stolen equipment from Clint at any point. Adding onto this, how did Clint manage to incorporate Pym technology into his arsenal? The particles were a limited commodity during the five-year snap, and I highly doubt Hank would be willing to let an Avenger use any more of them, given how paranoid he is of them falling into the wrong hands.
  • When the tracksuit mobsters grab him, he has his bow and quiver.
  • Most likely Clint has a weapons storage locker hidden in Manhattan from his days with SHIELD.
  • Also, considering Tony and Scott worked together to save all the victims of the snap, which included Hank, his wife, and his daughter, it's possible that Hank has eased up on his dislike of the Starks (specially when learning he was only revived due to his research). He could even be seen attending Tony's funeral at the end of Endgame.
  • Clint specifically mentions that he'll have to ask Scott about how to reverse the effects of the shrinking arrows suggesting he got the Pym tech from him.
• Are there different Pym arrows, some to enlarge and others to shrink their targets? Or, is there a way in that moment to set each Pym arrow for its task?
  • Probably the first, the same way those blue and red disks either grow or shrink what they hit.
  • Yep. In the finale, Clint uses a shrink arrow that's clearly a different one from the grow arrow.

Rogers the Musical?

• It's kind of confusing that there would be a musical number based on the alien invasion that devastated New York. Sure, it's been 11 years in-universe but wouldn't that be like if we had a musical based on the first responders of 9/11? That would raise some eyebrows even though it's been 20 years.
  • Come from Away has been referred to as a 9/11 musical. During the making of the show, people were worried that it would be tasteless, a cash grab, stereotypical, offensive show no one would want to see. It was shown to 9/11 survivors, first responders, and the people of Gander, Newfoundland who sheltered the Plane People. So far, the results is a critical and commercial success. I imagine that the people behind Rogers, in the best case scenario, wanted to write a show that restores faith in humanity and how the Avengers saved New York and then the Earth. Kate did tell Clint that people don’t want cynicism anymore, with all the bad things that has happened.
  • Some might not see anything inherently wrong with the concept of making musicals based on real-life events, especially dark ones, let alone dark fictional plotlines. It's been going on at least since Les Misérables got sneered at for turning a tragic novel into a song-and-dance affair, as if transposing those plot points into a different form of art devalues and mocks them somehow. There are successful musicals about a serial killer and a cannibal, a traumatized Empress who got assassinated, a woman battling her mental illness and crumbling family life... For a large-scale tragedy, there's Titanic, which won five Tony Awards (everything it was nominated for), and was more historically accurate than James Cameron's blockbuster.
  • There's also the fact that, after everything the universe has been through, the Battle of New York doesn't seem too bad in comparison. After all, it was fairly localized, the casualty rate - while bad - was nowhere near as high as other incidents, and ultimately it was more or less a straight up victory (at least, in the short term) as opposed to the Pyrrhic Victories and just plain defeats of later events. Not to mention that it was the battle that introduced the Avengers into the world and gave people hope, even if only for a little bit.

How did Clint find Kate?

• In the first episode, Clint saw a glimpse of Kate on TV and somehow tracked her down. Clint is good, but he had nothing to go on in terms of clues. While it makes sense that the Tracksuit Mafia just followed her after the fight at the auction, Clint seemed to find Kate on a random street about two hours after seeing her on TV when she was in a different part of the city.
  • Clint probably recognized the Tracksuit Mafia goons on the TV and followed them.

Thanos was right?

• So why did Clint have a Thanos was right mug? And why was it even available? This was a man who killed half the universe. Your friends, family and someone you knew turned to dust 5-6 years ago and if it weren't for the Avengers, you would never see them again. Clint having it also kinda made no sense, as his family was dusted thanks to him, and now he has a constant reminder of who was responsible in your hands. Imagine the reactions if there was a 'Hitler was right' mug, and this guy didn't even come close to purple space dude's killcount.
  • It wasn't Clint's mug, it belonged to Kate's aunt in whom's apartment they are hiding out in for the time being. And given the events of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier it seems a lot of people preferred that half of their species had stayed dust instead of returning.
    • This doesn't explain why Clint would drink from it. Surely it isn't the only mug Kate's aunt owns.
    • Honestly, he simply doesn't seem to care. He didn't seem bothered when he saw it written in a washroom.
    • Irony?
    • End of the day, he has his family and friends/coworkers back, and the guy what did it and the means by which they were taken are all gone permanently. He can at least take solace in that and not be SO traumatized by it. Hell, the only thing from the ordeal that gets to him anymore is Natasha being gone, and Thanos didn't directly kill her. Or, a much less complicated option...it's a "fuck-you" because he helped beat the guy.
    • There may also be an element of practicality involved; if it's the only clean mug available for him, then if he wants to drink something he has little option. Perhaps Kate's aunt has a machine full of dirty washing needing doing, or she owns very few mugs (perhaps Kate gets her tendency to own very little cutlery from her aunt's side of the family).
    • Another simple explanation to Clint drinking from that mug: he did not read it. He simply took it. Mugs will hardly ever have something important written on them, so why even bother reading?

How exactly did Clint lose his hearing?

• It's shown that Clint lost hearing over the years after being near so many explosions and loud noises. However, in most of those battles the Avengers wear earpieces to communicate with one another. Bluetooth earpieces with noise cancellation built in are available to the average person in real life. So surely the Avengers, who were backed by SHIELD/Stark Industries, should have hearing protection in their tech. And if they didn't have hearing protection, why is Clint the only one to lose his hearing?
  • Hulk is the Hulk, so he has enhanced protection from such injuries, Steve's Serum made him more durable, Iron Man had built-in tech in his armor, Thor is a God, and Widow no doubt received such training to protect her hearing in the Red Room. Clint, for all his training, doesn't have any of that.
    • How exactly does Black Widow training protect you from losing your hearing? They're trained in combat and espionage; hearing isn't something you can "train." Besides that, what about the other "normal" Avengers like Falcon and War Machine?
    • Not everyone experiences hearing loss in the same way. There doesn't need to be an explanation for why Clint is experiencing it and other "normal" Avengers aren't. Not everyone who does the same work experiences the same effects. We also don't see every mission the Avengers have participated in on-screen. It may simply be that Clint has been around more explosions and loud noises than the other normals.
    • War Machine is like Iron Man, the helmet probably had some sort of sound filter. After all, they fly and winds can be very loud at high speeds, not to mention the big gun machine Rhodey's suit had in the shoulder. Falcon probably had something similar. No idea about how Black Widows protect their hearings.
    • It's worth pointing out that Clint has been active much longer than the other uncovered heroes, long enough for injuries to build up. Who's to say Falcon or the widows aren't going to lose their hearing? They simply haven't accrued enough hearing damage yet.
    • I'm going to guess and say that part of the Black Widow program's more...shall we say, "intense" methods involved extensive surgery to reduce the likelihood of having the senses hurt. They did do a lot of illegal stuff to make them tougher; who's to say they didn't push the boundaries to make them almost super-soldier like?
    • Hawkeye might not have been wearing those earpieces when 2014 Thanos attacked the Avengers Compound in Endgame.
    • Who's to say Nat's hearing wasn't at least a little damaged? Clint wasn't wearing a hearing aid yet in Endgame despite the majority of the explosion montage taking place before then. It's possible that her hearing wasn't damaged enough for her to need a device at the time she died.

What's with the LARPer plot?

• After a LARPer makes off with the Ronin suit Clint doesn't really have reason to take it back when you think about it. There are numerous in-universe cosplayers for the Avengers and though Ronin's identity isn't known to the public, his appearance is. It would be easy for the real suit to blend in plain sight and fall under the radar as a costume to anyone interested in Ronin. If anything, going after the suit only draws more attention to it. But excusing all of that, when Clint confronts the LARPer with the suit anyway, why doesn't he explain how dangerous it is to have a connection to the Ronin? Instead he has a very public fight with the guy that multiple people likely have recorded and posted on social media, again welcoming attention to the suit. It just seems like the writers really wanted the LARP plot for some added filler.
  • It's entirely possible Clint simply didn't explain how dangerous the suit was for their own protection; the less they know, the less at risk they are and the less likely they are to connect Clint to Ronin. Given his history as a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, he's probably super cagey about divulging potentially dangerous information anyway.
    • He could have conveyed that owning the suit is dangerous without going into extreme detail. Everyone knows what Ronin did during the Snap period so this would be common sense, anyway.
  • With respect to taking it back, my guess is that he didn't want to risk some civilian getting killed simply for having it, especially after Kate's apartment got torched.

Valentina Allegra de Fontaine's involvement

• If Eleanor Bishop was the one who hired Yelena Belova to kill Clint thanks to what appears to be the Kingpin's influence, what was the reason for Val showing up in Black Widow's stinger? She seems pretty disconnected from this overall plot.
  • Eleanor went to Fisk about her problem, he paid Val to send someone to kill Clint, Val sent Yelena.
  • The implication is that Valentina has installed herself as Yelena's handler. She deals with the clients, while Yelena deals with the targets. Valentina didn't have a location for Clint when she approached Yelena in the cemetery. It was purely to keep her motivated. When either Fisk or Eleanor reached out with an actual place Clint could be found, she notified Yelena.

The used car lot

• Minor nitpick, but who the hell is going to pay $23,750 for a station wagon from 1985?! I know New York is expensive but damn...
  • Jake Peralta.
  • Seeing how so many people are car nuts in the world, it wouldn't surprise me if someone would be rich enough to spend that much money for a vintage car like that, especially in New York.
  • Also could be that in that universe, that station wagon model is popular with the car modding scene at the moment.
  • The car lot is mostly a front to launder the Tracksuit's money. The high prices on shitty cars is because they need to justify on paper why they brought in that much money in a single transaction, and using actually nice cars would be more difficult.
  • Might not have been intended by the writers, but the economic dislocation of the Blip would've caused auto production to utterly crash for a few years (and ongoing production rates to land a lot lower than they would have otherwise - it's entirely possible that about 2-3 model years did a good imitation of prodction going to zero). Then suddenly the population doubles. During the new car squeeze in 2021-22, there was a domino effect where cars from that era jumped in value by about 50% (because at some point, if you need a car you need a car). This would be rather more extreme, but it doesn't feel implausible that the car market would be that distorted for a year.

The death of William Lopez

• It's eventually revealed that Wilson Fisk ordered the death of William Lopez, Maya's father, and hired Ronin to do the job. This raises all kinds of questions, namely: why would Fisk want Lopez dead in the first place? Why would he, an organised crime boss, hire someone whose sworn mission is to eradicate organised crime, instead of just going there and beating Lopez to death with his bare hands? And why would Ronin agree to work for Fisk? He knew it was Fisk who had hired him to take Lopez out, so why did he agree instead of going straight for Fisk himself?
  • Fisk probably hired Clint/Ronin as a third party to drive any attention away from himself. As for Clint, he wasn't thinking straight in that moment.
  • Clint wasn't "hired" to take out Lopez. Clint had gone full Frank Castle against the concept of organized crime and was taking any opportunity to murder anyone he deemed didn't deserve to survive the Snap, in a state of pure despair and rage. Fisk didn't call him up and say, "Hey, can you kill one of my lieutenants for me?", he had an informant (almost certainly Kazi) leak Lopez's location and let nature take its course. It's unclear whether or not Clint was aware that the information had come from Fisk at the time or if he only pieced that together after the fact, but even if he knew, it's likely he didn't care, in the same way that Frank didn't really care that his crusade against the gangs that killed his family were helping out Fisk in the long run; he was getting an opportunity to murder a gangster.
  • As for why Fisk didn't just kill Lopez himself, his affection for Maya appears to be at least somewhat genuine, and he wanted to keep her on his side. Having a vigilante like the Ronin who just kills gangs almost indiscriminately do it by pointing him in the right direction is a good way to cover his tracks on that one; Ronin wasn't thought to be an assassin-for-hire, he was considered a vigilante, so there'd be no reason for Maya to suspect that there was anyone else to blame but Ronin.
  • I think it was implied that Lopez wanted to leave the Tracksuit Mafia so Maya could have a life away from crime, considering he became a criminal in the first place to provide for her. Kazi also mentioned that Lopez was respected among the Tracksuits. Fisk already doesn't accept resignations, and Lopez leaving could undermine his authority. Keeping Maya in his sphere of influence may also have been a factor in tipping off Ronin.

Why did the Tracksuits want the watch?

• In the end episode, we find out that the watch belonged to Laura Barton and it's engraved with a SHIELD logo and the number 19. But why did the Tracksuits want it in the first place? It doesn't contain any names or other identifying information that could connect it to Laura or Ronin.
  • Pretty sure the Tracksuits just wanted it so they could sell it for some quick cash. Nothing more complicated than that.
  • The Tracksuits worked for Fisk (through several layers of middle men). Fisk may have known or guessed the watch was connected to the Ronin and wanted it to see if he could use it to find out more about him.
  • Don't forget that Natasha released all of SHIELD's secrets to the net in Winter Soldier, presumably this also included their HR database. It's a stretch, sure, but if you know that Agent 19's watch was recovered from the Avengers HQ after they cut ties with SHIELD then you might be able to conclude that the agent is close to an Avenger.
  • It also helps verify Agent 19's identity, which could be VERY valuable in circles. Clint treats the watch like it is the end of the world.

How did Laura's S.H.I.E.L.D. watch end up at Avengers Compound in the first place, and why didn't Clint try to recover it before now?

• This watch is a highly valuable item, and it could have caused a lot of problems for Clint, Laura, and their family if it fell into the wrong hands.
  • It's not a stretch to assume Clint had such a Tragic Keepsake of his wife's in his possession when he moved back into the compound. He only didn't need to carry it around all the time in a place he deemed safe.
  • And he didn't try to retrieve it before because he thought it had been blown up.
  • While most people assume Clint had the watch, it's pretty likely Natasha knew her identity also, so it's possible she had it, either picking it up from the empty farmhouse to protect Laura's identity if she ever came back, or Clint sending it to Nat for the same reason. This would explain why Clint and Laura seemed somewhat unsure what happened to it.

Why did Kingpin want Hawkeye dead?

• In the last episode he expresses nervousness that an Avenger has taken an outside interest in his operation. Which brings the question of why he would hire a Black Widow to assassinate one. Something like that would certainly bring a ton of heat down on him. I get that Mrs. Bishop was the one who requested it, but why would he go through with it? Was she hiring her independently?
  • As seen with the Vulture's gang in Spider-Man: Homecoming, the Avengers are pretty much The Dreaded when it comes to regular criminal organizations, and Fisk's crime ring is no exception. So long as the assassination is done under-the-radar without anything to connect the Black Widow to him, the Kingpin would probably jump at any chance to get Clint off his back.

Who saved the world again?

• In episode 5, when Kate says Clint saved the world, Yelena objects and says her sister saved the world. When in episode 6, Clint tells her Natasha saved the world, she calls him a liar and insists Clint must have killed her. I get Yelena's not in the most rational state of mind but still... why the 180?
  • All she really knows is that Nat died in the process of saving the world, and she was told that Clint was the one that killed her. The rest is mostly her grief talking, as if she were able to think rationally about the situation it would be pretty clear that it would make zero sense for Clint to kill Nat but it didn't matter to her at the time.
  • I took it as her not objecting to Nat having saved the world. I thought she disagreed with Nat having sacrificed herself willingly.
  • Yelena insisting that Clint killed Natasha is basically because even if she knows there's a few holes in the story, Yelena believing that is more easier and less painful to her than the fact that Nat sacrificed her life for the sake of trillions. It's basically Yelena passing through the Negation Stage of grief.

Why Rogers specifically?

• If Broadway decided to make a musical about the Avengers in New York, why is it named after Steve Rogers specifically? The events of The Avengers weren't exactly his story, he just happened to be one amongst many people involved with what was going on.
  • Presumably the musical isn't just about the Battle of New York, at a guess I'd assume it's more about the entirety of Steve's story through the MCU, or at least the parts that are publicly known, it just happens that the part that was seen in the show happens to be the scene looking at the battle of New York.
  • Especially because Clint and his family said they left half way though. The Battle of New York is a big finish to an act, not the whole point of the story.
  • Because Captain America is a big deal for the history of the country in this universe. Like, sure, the rest of the Avengers are also important, but his importance predates them all.
  • Plus, Steve is more relatable for the average Joe than any of the other core Avengers, except maybe Bruce. Thor is a 1,500 year old alien prince, Natasha grew up as a living weapon, Clint's backstory most likely isn't publicly known, and Tony is a billionaire. Bruce, meanwhile, was an average guy who became a superpowered monster, which is cool, but Steve is a kid from Brooklyn who grew up in the slums, had a best pal, joined the Army, got superpowers, became a celebrity, punched Nazis, died and came back to save the world several times over...that's pretty much perfect material for a scriptwriter.
  • In the MCU, the US Government has been using Rogers for propaganda since the 1940's and into the present day (as shown in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier) so he's already front and center in the public consciousness. Further, the show they are openly referencing (Hamilton, and before that 1776), takes and emphasizes the individual contributions of one man in what was very much a group effort.

Stealing a costume

• So, one of the firemen decided to just steal a costume that was lying around in someone's apartment for his own use? Isn't that the definition of theft? I mean, obviously Kate and Clint aren't going to prosecute him, all things considered, but still, you'd think a fireman would be more moral than that, right?
  • Firefighters certainly aren't saints. As humans, they have various personalities and morals. Best case, it was a one-time thing and he was caught up in the moment. He and the other LAR Pers clearly have a desire to be be superheroes. The point is he could have been much worse in the condition for giving back the suit and also, he helped Hawkeye later on in situations he certainly didn't have to. Really minor crime in comparison to what Clint's done.
  • Yes, it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't change the fact that he committed an act of theft just for funsies. Kate stole it to protect her identity, he just did it because he thought it looks cool.

Useless USB Arrow

• I know there's no real answer to this besides Rule of Funny but why did the USB arrow just bounce off the Tracksuit guy in episode three. Sure it's not a regular pointed arrow and certainly wouldn't be deadly but considering how fast it was likely to be going, it still should have done some damage.
  • It might have stung him, but he's a Russian gangster. He's not going to show pain if he can avoid it.

Fisk being free

• The end of season 3 of Daredevil has Fisk make a deal with Matt that so long as he stays in prison, Matt won’t reveal Vanessa’s crimes to the authorities (such as ordering the murder of Ray Nadeem). Why is Fisk then moving about freely without seemingly a care on who sees him and knows he’s around?
  • Current theory - which could well be disproven in the future - is that Matt blipped, Fisk didn't, and Fisk took the five years to take precautions & protect Vanessa from Matt's evidence.
    • Or maybe Vanessa blipped and Fisk didn't, and so he had 5 years thinking that she was gone and he didn't have to protect her anymore, and started operating openly again during that time.
    • Or, Matt had the evidence on a Dead Man's Switch, which would be smart to keep Kingpin from just killing him, so the evidence was released already and Matt now has no leverage.
    • Or even simpler: Vanessa died from the fallout of the Blip, such as in the numerous plane crashes, famines, wars, and crime spikes that occurrent in the immediate aftermath.
  • Also, Fisk really just needs to keep Matt's secret and not go after his friends. In exchange, Matt doesn't use Vanessa as leverage for other things. Basically, they have rules of war. They can go and kill each other but certain people are off-limits.
• That Kingpin shows up and is played by the same person does not confirm that the exact events of Daredevil (2015) happened in the MCU. All it means is that there is a Wilson Fisk in the MCU that is the Kingpin.
  • D'Onofrio has stated that he's played him as if he was a continuation of the Daredevil series & that "they're the same person." Now, granted, that could well be a misunderstanding on D'Onofrio part, I don't know how familiar he is with the concept of the multiverse, or if the question that prompted his answer was worded properly, or if it was explained to him by Marvel properly. And it is also subject to change as it could well have been the intention when filming took place but as they work things out further, they'll decide to go in another direction.
  • Also, the fact that Charlie Cox reprised his role as Matt in Spider-Man: No Way Home would seem to indicate that the events of Daredevil are now MCU canon.

The Ronin Suit Flammability

• In episode two the Ronin suit is caught in the fire that burns down Kate's apartment and survives just fine. However, at the end of the finale, Clint and Kate are able to burn the suit no problem. Why?
  • Easy: a) in the fire that burns down Kate apartment, the fire never managed to arrive to the position where the suit is, or b) the fire started to burn the suit but the firefighters arrived before it get ruined.
  • The fire didn't burn down Kate's apartment, it just wrecked some of the stuff inside, Clint goes back in episode 2 and Kate and Yelena are there in episode 5. Being near a molotov is not the same as actually being soaked in kerosene and set directly on fire.

"Tony, you've got nukes to catch..."

• So Rogers: The Musical features the above line. Does that mean that the world knows the World Security Council tried to nuke New York or do they think someone else (like the Chitauri) did it?
  • At the end of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Natasha released all of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s files to the internet to expose all of the stuff they did as HYDRA. All the shady things the council did are public knowledge.
  • Even before that, a kid made a child drawing of Iron Man catching the missile in Iron Man 3 (the very next MCU film after Avengers). So yes, it was public knowledge, always have been. Perhaps S.H.I.E.L.D. preferred to keep it classified, but what makes you think that, orders or no orders, Tony Stark would refrain from boasting about that? He's the man of the "I am Iron Man" scene and the man that gave his address on TV while a terrorist was after him. Of course he would brag about it, and even make T-Shirts "I catched a nuke and flew it through a space portal".

Yelena believing that Clint killed her sister?

• Any idea on what exactly convinced Yelena so strongly that Clint killed Natasha? Seems odd to believe that two public figures known to be friends or at the least comrades and one would kill the other. I know it was Val in the Black Widow stinger that said it to her but even Yelena didn't seem to like her. So, what could Val make up that would be so convincing?
  • Grief. Yelena is angry that her sister is gone, angry that when so many people - like Clint - got their loved ones back, she did not, angry and confused that she lost five years of her life. Yelena has no memory of her real family, so losing her adopted one is especially traumatic. She's not thinking rationally about Clint; all she knows is that two people went to Vormir, but only one came back. So she projects her anger and her grief onto him.
  • Basically, Yelena follow the same logic as Nebula when she's talking about Thanos and Gamora: both know that two people went to Vormir, but only one returned.

Rogers The Musical costumes

• I get that Rogers is supposed to be Stylistic Suck but it's also a Broadway show, why are the actors wearing cheap looking regular clothes? Sure, the Hulk, Antman and Ironman would be hard to replicate onstage but it can surely be done better, plus there's no excuse for the other Avengers.