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Anything That Moves is a disambiguation


*** Also, given the... [[ReallyGetsAround extremes]]... Bhaal went to in enacting his whole 'army of progeny' part of the prophecy, it isn't particularly hard to believe that some of his children exist [[AnythingThatMoves just because the mood took him.]]

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*** Also, given the... [[ReallyGetsAround extremes]]... Bhaal went to in enacting his whole 'army of progeny' part of the prophecy, it isn't particularly hard to believe that some of his children exist [[AnythingThatMoves just because the mood took him.]]
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** United Colors of Bhaaletton
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* So is Draconis adopted or what? Because he claims Abizagal as his father but Abizagal is a Blue Drahon, Draconis is a Brown Dragon.

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* So is Draconis adopted or what? Because he claims Abizagal as his father but Abizagal is a Blue Drahon, Dragon, Draconis is a Brown Dragon.
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* So is Draconis adopted or what? Because he claims Abizagal as his father but Abizagal is a Blue Drahon, Draconis is a Brown Dragon.
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* When the party gets magically disguised as drow for the Ust Natha questline how does that work with Mazzy, Jan, Korgan or a halfling/gnome/dwarven PC? The humans, elves and half elves of the party are not so different from drow in stature to shatter the illusion. Half-orc Dorn is stocky enough to be a bit awkward but he can probably muddle through. But the shorter races should surely struggle to interact with the world in a manner that fits their drow appearance.
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** That's a game mechanic, not an Amnian law. Only using arcane magic outside a building in one of the Athkatla areas spawns the "Cowled Wizard comes at yells at you" event. If you want a Watsonian explanationwhen you cast magic outside someone is bound to see you and alert the Cowled Wizards, inside the witnesses are more limited.
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** Even epic level folks have to sleep. Not that I approve of the PC getting killed post victory like that, I didn't even approve of Vicnia getting fridged as well, but it's not by any means impossible; no matter how high level everything in D&D can die (with the possible exceptions of Ao and the Lady of Pain).

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** Even epic level folks have to sleep. sleep, poison is a thing, anyone can roll a 1 on a "Save vs Death" etc.. Not that I approve of the PC getting killed post victory like that, I didn't even approve of Vicnia Viconia getting fridged as well, but it's not by any means impossible; no matter how high level everything in D&D can die (with the possible exceptions of Ao and the Lady of Pain).

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** Even epic level folks have to sleep. Not that I approve of the PC getting killed post victory like that, I didn't even approve of Vicnia getting fridged as well, but it's not by any means impossible; no matter how high level everything in D&D can die (with the possible exceptions of Ao and the Lady of Pain).


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*** No, he was the dead one, you can even ask him about it. However he also notes that it took a lot of effort to bring him back, which does track; the more messed up a body is in D&D the harder it is to bring them back. So to extrapolate Sarevok saw to it the body was defiled and was convincing everyone that resurrection wasn't going to work.
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** Plus after seeing Irenicus slaughter several of them they're panicking and not willing to listen to reason from the party.
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*** A darker possibility for resurrection is that Shar won't let her soul go. Viconia has been aiding, indeed falling in love with a potential rival of the Dark Goddess and she is very much known for her spite. She may have decided enough is enough and refused to let her somewhat errant cleric's soul return.

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** As for the dragon Bhaal was a ''god.'' From that lofty vantage point the difference between humanoid and dragon looks a lot smaller.




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*** In-universe explanation; the term "half-dwarf" could be cultural rather than biological, like how some folks with human and elven parents in Franchise/DragonAge get called half-elves even though in that setting the children of elves and humans are all human. The "half-dwarf" therefore is biologically a dwarf but is called a half-dwarf by other dwarves because he has a human parent.
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*** That much is certainly not true; Chosen are empowered by their god but act of their own free will so do not count as direct divine intervention. That is, in fact, the main reason gods have them. As long as Mystra herself doesn't order Elminster to get involved him doing so is his choice, not hers, and Ao will have no objections (not once has Ao given any indication of caring a tiny bit about what mortals do).
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* Why the HELL did the Elf Queen think the perfect solution to stopping a power-hungry wizard from doing harm is to [[MoralDissonance strip him and his clearly psychopathic sister of their souls]]? Not only did it probably break whatever morality he has left and made sure he will be out for revenge, but dude - stripping someone of their soul? That's really frellin' Evil by anyone's books.

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* Why the HELL did the Elf Queen think the perfect solution to stopping a power-hungry wizard from doing harm is to [[MoralDissonance strip him and his clearly psychopathic sister of their souls]]? souls? Not only did it probably break whatever morality he has left and made sure he will be out for revenge, but dude - stripping someone of their soul? That's really frellin' Evil by anyone's books.
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*** Edwin is a Red Wizard of Thay and s high-functioning sociopath. Being too much of a hero ruins his 'street cred' and deprives him of valuable chances to kill people who annoy him. There are also hints he's an exile from Thay, or at least ReassignedToAntarctica, so being a big enough horrible monster might very well put him back in their good graces while becoming a great hero ruins his reputation even more.

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*** Edwin is a Red Wizard of Thay and s a high-functioning sociopath. Being too much of a hero ruins his 'street cred' and deprives him of valuable chances to kill people who annoy him. There are also hints he's an exile from Thay, or at least ReassignedToAntarctica, so being a big enough horrible monster might very well put him back in their good graces while becoming a great hero ruins his reputation even more.
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*** Bhaal explicitly tells Bane and Mykrul that he was the strongest of the Dead Three. If Bane got too proud, Bhaal could kill his worshipers and if Mykrul got too big, he could start staying his hand and starve the realm of the dead. Which is probably why they both backstabbed him during the Time of Troubles and sacrificed 95% of the Bhaal Worshipers in order to empower Bane's new avatar body.

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*** Bhaal explicitly tells Bane and Mykrul Myrkul that he was the strongest of the Dead Three. If Bane got too proud, Bhaal could kill his worshipers and if Mykrul Myrkul got too big, he could start staying his hand and starve the realm of the dead. Which is probably why they both backstabbed him during the Time of Troubles and sacrificed 95% of the Bhaal Worshipers worshipers in order to empower Bane's new avatar body.
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** Perhaps he was already running a circus and being a foster father to Aerie, but had to temporarily travel to Baldur's Gate and left everything in her hands (or in the hands of someone else), and never actually told Charname about his life because he's arrogant with strangers. When we meet him again in Athkatla, he either knows us from before or trusts use because we save him, so he even thinks that Aerie would be in good hands with us (although this could be a little inconsistent if Charname is a chaotic evil psychopath but the game is all tailored for a good playthrough). Considering that his personality, as well of that of other characters, is a bit retconned between the two games, this explanation wouldn't collide with what the game offers.

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** Perhaps he was already running a circus and being a foster father to Aerie, but had to temporarily travel to Baldur's Gate and left everything in her hands (or in the hands of someone else), and never actually told Charname about his life because he's arrogant with strangers. When we meet him again in Athkatla, he either knows us from before or trusts use us because we save him, so he even thinks that Aerie would be in good hands with us (although this could be a little inconsistent if Charname is a chaotic evil psychopath but the game is all tailored for a good playthrough). Considering that his personality, as well of that of other characters, is a bit retconned between the two games, this explanation wouldn't collide with what the game offers.
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** FridgeBrilliance actually.Given that he's one of the worst characters in the entire series, no player would use him to complete the adventure.

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** FridgeBrilliance actually. Given that he's one of the worst characters in the entire series, no player would use him to complete the adventure.
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** Uh, he also has a bunch of mephits and duregar, so it's not like the place is staffed "almost entirely by goblins" at all.

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** Uh, he also has a bunch of mephits and duregar, duergar, so it's not like the place is staffed "almost entirely by goblins" at all.

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Headscratchers subpages are Spoilers Off pages.


'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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* Even though there was [[TakeYourTime no actual time limit]], did they have to set the sequel up in such a way that you feel like scum at all times for wandering around doing side quests rather than quickly acting on your main quest? When you start, you feel like a heel because your kid sister is off somewhere in a hidden prison run by a malicious bunch of mages and you should probably be trying to save her as quickly as possible. When you finally do rescue her, you feel like a heel for wandering around because [[spoiler: Irenicus is laying waste to an Elven city while you're screwing around, not to mention the supposed ticking time bomb of having no soul left.]]

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* Even though there was [[TakeYourTime no actual time limit]], did they have to set the sequel up in such a way that you feel like scum at all times for wandering around doing side quests rather than quickly acting on your main quest? When you start, you feel like a heel because your kid sister is off somewhere in a hidden prison run by a malicious bunch of mages and you should probably be trying to save her as quickly as possible. When you finally do rescue her, you feel like a heel for wandering around because [[spoiler: Irenicus is laying waste to an Elven city while you're screwing around, not to mention the supposed ticking time bomb of having no soul left.]]



* If Sarevok and the PC can't be resurrected because Bhaalspawn cease to exist when they're killed, how come [[spoiler:Imoen]] has no such problem?

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* If Sarevok and the PC can't be resurrected because Bhaalspawn cease to exist when they're killed, how come [[spoiler:Imoen]] Imoen has no such problem?



* Why couldn't Viconia [[spoiler:be resurrected in the ending where the player character romances her and a follower of Lolth poisons her, again? Or why couldn't she chug one of the, likely, dozens if not hundreds of antidotes lying around? Or even just cast Neutralize Poison on herself courtesy of being a cleric?]]

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* Why couldn't Viconia [[spoiler:be be resurrected in the ending where the player character romances her and a follower of Lolth poisons her, again? Or why couldn't she chug one of the, likely, dozens if not hundreds of antidotes lying around? Or even just cast Neutralize Poison on herself courtesy of being a cleric?]]cleric?
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** The first rule of geas is that you do not talk about geas. Well, not really, but Irenicus is a smart guy, I'm sure it's one of the first instructions he gives to his ensorcelled underlings.

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** The first rule of geas is that you do not talk about geas. Well, not really, but Irenicus is a smart guy, I'm sure it's probably one of the first instructions he gives to his ensorcelled underlings.

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Removed instances of "this troper", natter, misuse, and Flame Bait. Minsc and Dynaheir were retconned into being captured with you.


* When you invade Abizagal's lair, you have to obtain a scroll of reversal in order to free a dragon trapped under a geas. Because you can successfully do this, then why on earth didn't Yoshimo just explain his situation and ask the character to look for a scroll such as that to free him from his geas? Granted he wasnt actually there because he didn't survive the events of Shadow's Of Amn, but still...

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* When you invade Abizagal's lair, you have to obtain a scroll of reversal in order to free a dragon trapped under a geas. Because you can successfully do this, then why on earth didn't Yoshimo just explain his situation and ask the character to look for a scroll such as that to free him from his geas? Granted he wasnt wasn't actually there because he didn't survive the events of Shadow's Of Amn, but still...



** Uh, he also has a bunch of mephits and duregar. I wouldn't say the place is staffed "almost entirely by goblins" at all.

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** Uh, he also has a bunch of mephits and duregar. I wouldn't say duregar, so it's not like the place is staffed "almost entirely by goblins" at all.



* Why, oh why did Aerie refuse my generous offer to give her new wings using my great power? It makes me sad. :(

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* Why, oh why did Why does Aerie refuse my generous your offer to give restore her new wings using my with your great power? It makes me sad. :(power?



*** Well yeah, of course they wouldn't give you a flying party member. But that's purely gameplay. Looking only from a plot perspective I can't really think of a reason for Aerie to refuse the Bhaalspawn's offer to give her new wings. Especially if the Bhaalspawn romanced her as much as possible. Admittedly I haven't played ''[=BG2:ToB=]'' in a while so I might have forgotten something.
** There was a scrapped quest that gives you the option of turning Aerie into a bird. It would allow her to fly again, something she desperately wishes for, but naturally she'll be out of the party. The "Good End" of the quest is to state she has to face reality, which is suppose to make her confident and she starts using the "I am now going to stop whining and kick ass" soundset.
*** ... That was scrapped? Damn. Had they kept it in there she might've become more enjoyable in the long run.
*** There are TONS of stuff that they were planning on doing but never got the time to. The game is awesome as is, but when you consider what it could have been...

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*** Well yeah, of course they wouldn't give you a flying party member. But that's purely gameplay. Looking only from a plot perspective I can't really think of perspective, there doesn't seem to be a reason for Aerie to refuse the Bhaalspawn's offer to give her new wings. Especially if the Bhaalspawn romanced her as much as possible. Admittedly I haven't played ''[=BG2:ToB=]'' in a while so I might have forgotten something.
possible.
** There was a scrapped quest that gives you the option of turning Aerie into a bird. It would allow her to fly again, something she desperately wishes for, but naturally she'll be out of the party. The "Good End" of the quest is to state she has to face reality, which is suppose to make her confident and she starts using the "I am now going to stop whining and kick ass" soundset. \n*** ... That was scrapped? Damn. Had they kept it in there she might've become more enjoyable in the long run.\n*** There are TONS of stuff that they were planning on doing but never got the time to. The game is awesome as is, but when you consider what it could have been...



** There ARE flying party members already, though (well, sort of). If CHARNAME is a mage or a sorcerer, many of the potential familiars can fly. You can also summon flying monsters with your spells. And she's already a ridiculous combination of PuritySue, SympatheticSue, and plain old MarySue as is thanks to her illegal multi-class and constant moaning about her backstory. Would letting her fly really break things any more than letting her put divine spells in to spell sequencers does?
** If the definition of MarySue is a sad backstory and a rule-breaking class, half the other characters are also [[MarySue MarySues]]. See also: Minsc (can't be a ranger with that wisdom), Anomen (can't dual-class with that wisdom), Kagain (illegal Constitution), Coran (illegal dexterity), Edwin (extra spells), Mazzy (extra special abilities), et al. Jaheira, Viconia, Anomen, Mazzy, Valygar, and Sarevok also have notably sad backstories.
*** I'd cont the as examples of Rule #0. They were approved by the devteam (DM), and so are permitted.
*** Sad backstories and rule-breaking classes do not constitute a MarySue.
*** I believe Edwin has extra spells due to an amulet he wears. There's a ring in the first game that does something similar for any mage, though Edwin still gets more spells..
*** As has been said elsewhere, the only reason why Minsc is a ranger at all is because of Boo. Beastmaster is a ranger kit in the second game. It would make more sense for him to be some other fighting class, especially since his stealth sucks (a ranger's stealth is much better than his ever will be in the first game), he keeps talking about his berserker rage in the second game (and even has it as a special ability in both), and he works much better as a meatshield than as a bowman, especially in the second game. The game handwaves his low wisdom by saying that he took too many blows to the head before <charname> even meets him.
** Well, only Mazzy and Anomen appear on both lists and I'm convinced that only some sort of JerkSue powers can explain anyone falling for him so I'd agree with that one. Mazzy's backstory isn't that distinctive - she's an experienced adventurer, fell in love with a companion, and he died on their last quest together. It's like Jaheira's, and they both mention it occasionally later but don't constantly draw the focus to that. Aerie, however, even in her non-romance dialogues, constantly mentions hers. Really, that's what makes her a Sue in my book; despite everyone else having problems, hers are the ones that constantly get brought up. Although I'll admit, along with the general YMMV of this entire page of tropes, "whiny and annoying" aren't defining Sue tropes and my dislike of her based on those qualities might cloud my judgment on the Sue part as well.

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** There ARE flying party members already, though (well, sort of). If CHARNAME is a mage or a sorcerer, many of the potential familiars can fly. You can also summon flying monsters with your spells. And she's already a ridiculous combination of PuritySue, SympatheticSue, and plain old MarySue as is thanks to her illegal multi-class and constant moaning about her backstory. Would letting her fly really break things any more than letting her put divine spells in to spell sequencers does?
** If the definition of MarySue is a sad backstory and a rule-breaking class, half the other characters are also [[MarySue MarySues]]. See also: Minsc (can't be a ranger with that wisdom), Anomen (can't dual-class with that wisdom), Kagain (illegal Constitution), Coran (illegal dexterity), Edwin (extra spells), Mazzy (extra special abilities), et al. Jaheira, Viconia, Anomen, Mazzy, Valygar, and Sarevok also have notably sad backstories.
*** I'd cont the as examples of Rule #0. They were approved by the devteam (DM), and so are permitted.
*** Sad backstories and rule-breaking classes do not constitute a MarySue.
*** I believe Edwin has extra spells due to an amulet he wears. There's a ring in the first game that does something similar for any mage, though Edwin still gets more spells..
*** As has been said elsewhere, the only reason why Minsc is a ranger at all is because of Boo. Beastmaster is a ranger kit in the second game. It would make more sense for him to be some other fighting class, especially since his stealth sucks (a ranger's stealth is much better than his ever will be in the first game), he keeps talking about his berserker rage in the second game (and even has it as a special ability in both), and he works much better as a meatshield than as a bowman, especially in the second game. The game handwaves his low wisdom by saying that he took too many blows to the head before <charname> even meets him.
** Well, only Mazzy and Anomen appear on both lists and I'm convinced that only some sort of JerkSue powers can explain anyone falling for him so I'd agree with that one. Mazzy's backstory isn't that distinctive - she's an experienced adventurer, fell in love with a companion, and he died on their last quest together. It's like Jaheira's, and they both mention it occasionally later but don't constantly draw the focus to that. Aerie, however, even in her non-romance dialogues, constantly mentions hers. Really, that's what makes her a Sue in my book; despite everyone else having problems, hers are the ones that constantly get brought up. Although I'll admit, along with the general YMMV of this entire page of tropes, "whiny and annoying" aren't defining Sue tropes and my dislike of her based on those qualities might cloud my judgment on the Sue part as well.
does?



** I only mentioned romance because you don't really get that many dialogues with most [=NPCs=] outside of the romances (and because I've seen it asserted elsewhere that she doesn't talk about her wings outside of the romance dialogue, which is factually untrue). And yes, most banters in the game are about the recipient of the banter, not the initiator of the banter. That doesn't make Aerie unique. What does, however, is the way she interjects her complaining in to the banter anyways. She'll talk to Minsc about Rashemen, sure, but whines about how she was taken from her home in the process. She can even whine about her wings while she's still an ogre. As for real life - well, in the real world I'd tell anyone like Aerie to find professional help. This isn't some macho Internet posturing garbage - it's because in the real world, depression and PTSD are serious diseases that don't get solved by meeting a kind stranger who offers up some encouraging words and the idea that they do is an all-too-prevalent one that hurts actual people who really exist. But that's RealLife. In the real world, I'd also want to talk about, say, having my parents killed by monsters and an evil slaver and smuggler trying to force me to marry him against my will, or having my lover/husband killed, or especially, being brutally tortured and then having my soul sucked out. And yet, everyone but poor little Aerie manages not to whine about it, and in fact rarely ever mention their issues at all outside of their designated questlines or romances, even though she's had the most time to get over her issues and actually has someone she's close to outside of the party to try and work this out with.
** Calling the adventuring companions 'strangers' is a bit much - Charname's companions are just that, close comrades. Faerun doesn't have a culture of psychology; talking to one's friends about feelings and issues is perfectly normal, regardless of how much others do it or don't do it. The Rashemen conversation is much more about Minsc than it is about Aerie. Why isn't he called 'whiny' for missing Rashemen and for mourning Dynaheir? The introductory line 'I'm an avariel, a winged elf, or at least I was...but that's not important, you need to get out of here' is also in no way whining. The drift of Aerie's conversations with Haer'Dalis or Charname is that she wants to move on, has some support, and proceeds to move on; the point of Aerie's stronger Throne of Bhaal battle cries and her non romance epilogue show the same thing. The trauma doesn't disappear; she becomes better at dealing with it. Aerie's mentions of her past are also, like other conversations, a device to reveal information that the player has not directly seen themselves; Viconia talks about the drow and Anomen about the Order.
** Minsc doesn't get called whiny because his reaction is more "My hamster and I shall apply our foot to the buttocks of the evil that did this" and less "Oh, how will I go on? And what's the point, anyways, my life is meaningless now." And yes, it is normal in the real world for someone with her issues to want to talk about it with her companions but that's the real world. "Normal" is entirely a relative term, and is defined by conformity to the usual standards and customs. If nobody else does it, it is by definition not normal (whether for good or ill). And yes, needlessly drawing attention to your own personal past trauma when there are other, bigger issues to deal with is whining. I do like that you mention Haer'Dalis, though, because I don't actually hate Aerie as much as it might seem from this conversation and I think her arc with Haer'Dalis is actually really well done, and if her interactions with Charname were more like that, I think I'd actually like her. Imoen's actually one of my favorites, so it's not as if I just hate "innocent", "sweet", or "child-like" characters. In the HD romance, Aerie's inexperienced and a bit uncertain and haunted by the past trauma but moves on a bit and gains confidence through getting the chance to explore her childhood dream of acting, among other things. Then she slowly begins to see just how different the two of them are and at the very end, she realizes that their values are just incompatible and refuses to compromise hers so she dumps him (and really, I think that's when she should start using her new soundset, especially from the beginning of that speech, but that's another topic). In her conversations with charname, though, she starts off as not just inexperienced but a drippy mess who has no business being anywhere near an adventuring party.



*** In Throne of Bhaal, sure--they're higher level than him, and he says as much that even he wouldn't want to fight ''the protagonist'', let alone him with the other party members backing him up. In the previous two games, though, he could wipe the floor with the whole party.

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*** In Throne of Bhaal, sure--they're higher level than him, and he says as much that even he wouldn't want to fight ''the protagonist'', let alone him them with the other party members backing him them up. In the previous two games, though, he could wipe the floor with the whole party.



*** I can't remember exactly what the note on Gorion's body said, but I do remember that in it Elminster says something along the lines of "this is something I'm not going to (or can't) get myself involved in.".

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*** I can't remember exactly what In the note on Gorion's body said, but I do remember that in it body, Elminster says something along the lines of "this is something I'm not going to (or can't) get myself involved in.".



*** Justified for a reason many media with super-powerful characters have examined before. If Elminster were to involve himself in every problem that beset the Realms, when a potential solution already existed and only needed a little guidance rather than everything spelled out for them, the people of the Realms would become complacent. As to why he didn't dump all that information on you? Hell, imagine how the Bhaalspawn felt when he was more or less eased into the knowledge that he was the son of the dead god of murder? If that were me, I'd have had to sit down, throw up, and take a few hours to collect my thoughts, not necessarily in that order. If that were dumped on me with every other major plot point, right after my dad died? I'd seriously contemplate asking Montaron to shove a knife into the base of my skull to get it over with.

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*** Justified for a reason many media with super-powerful characters have examined before. If Elminster were to involve himself in every problem that beset the Realms, when a potential solution already existed and only needed a little guidance rather than everything spelled out for them, the people of the Realms would become complacent. As to why he didn't dump all that information on you? Hell, imagine Imagine how the Bhaalspawn felt when he s/he was more or less eased into the knowledge that he s/he was the son child of the dead god of murder? If that were me, I'd have had to sit down, throw up, and take a few hours to collect my thoughts, not necessarily in that order. If that were murder. Now imagine how s/he'd feel if it was dumped on me with every other major plot point, him/her right after my dad died? I'd seriously contemplate asking Montaron to shove a knife into the base of my skull to get it over with.Gorion died.



*** Indeed, [[RedViking This troper]] loved how the dialogue options let you call them out on this.



** What really got me steamed over this is the implied FridgeLogic. When the Bhaalspawn and his sister lost their souls, they became empty and hollow, and were in danger of having [[EnemyWithin the Slayer(?)]] [[UnstoppableRage take over completely.]] And Irenicus and Bhodi were already not that morally sound to begin with. How exactly is removing their souls going to make it ''less'' likely they'll do evil? Answer: it's not. The elves must have known this and ''not cared'' what evil they wrought on the outside world, [[HiddenElfVillage thinking themselves perfectly safe.]]

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** What really got me steamed over this is the implied FridgeLogic. When the Bhaalspawn and his his/her sister lost their souls, they became empty and hollow, and were in danger of having [[EnemyWithin the Slayer(?)]] [[UnstoppableRage take over completely.]] And Irenicus and Bhodi were already not that morally sound to begin with. How exactly is removing their souls going to make it ''less'' likely they'll do evil? Answer: it's not. The elves must have known this and ''not cared'' what evil they wrought on the outside world, [[HiddenElfVillage thinking themselves perfectly safe.]]



** Also, I got the feeling that, by this time, Spellhold was not being used purely as a holding area for dangerous wizards, but also as a dumping ground for...undesirables.

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** Also, I got the feeling that, It's also possible that by this time, Spellhold was not being used purely as a holding area for dangerous wizards, but also as a dumping ground for...undesirables.



** Does the rule against magic in Amn also apply to Priest spells? Many of them have similar effects to destructive magic, and could do quite a bit of damage if mis-applied, so I wonder if the rules would be enforced on them, too.

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** Does the rule against magic in Amn also apply to Priest spells? Many of them have similar effects to destructive magic, and could do quite a bit of damage if mis-applied, so I wonder if would the rules would be enforced on them, too.too?



** I think one very important point is being missed. Tiax is psychotically insane and has access to the metaphysical equivalent of an M1 Abrams. It doesn't really matter if he's a cleric or a mage, he's a violent loon who can throw ''way'' too much power around, and he needs to be taken off the streets of Athkatla before people start burning, bleeding or blowing up. It's even possible that he was tried in a conventional court, and is serving his sentence in Spellhold because it's the only prison that can hold him, or that he's awaiting trial in Spellhold for the same reason.
* Which level was Gorion exactly? I mean, he was Elminsters buddy, but Sarevok pretty much owned him and I don't remember him casting any neat powerfull spells.

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** I think one One very important point is being missed. Tiax is psychotically insane and has access to the metaphysical equivalent of an M1 Abrams. It doesn't really matter if he's a cleric or a mage, he's a violent loon who can throw ''way'' too much power around, and he needs to be taken off the streets of Athkatla before people start burning, bleeding or blowing up. It's even possible that he was tried in a conventional court, and is serving his sentence in Spellhold because it's the only prison that can hold him, or that he's awaiting trial in Spellhold for the same reason.
* Which level was Gorion exactly? I mean, he He was Elminsters buddy, but Sarevok pretty much owned him and I don't remember without him ever casting any neat powerfull spells. neat, powerful spells.



*** Huh? Gorion's not wearing any armor because he's a mage. I don't know what "protective gear" you're talking about. The only thing notable on his corpse is the scroll from Elminster.

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*** Huh? Gorion's not wearing any armor because he's a mage. I don't know what "protective gear" you're talking about. The only thing notable on his corpse is the scroll from Elminster.



*** He's immune to most magic, but he takes damage from Flame Arrow, Melf's Acid Arrow, and Magic Missile-- as Gorion demonstrated. First time this troper beat the game, it was with a party that included three Wizards with nothing but Magic Missiles in their level 1 slots, and those Magic Missiles were what took him down.
* So was Bhaal planning this resurrection thing many hundreds of years ago? I don't see any other explanation for why two of the most powerful Bhaalspawn are a full-grown dragon ''with a son'' and an adult Drow priestess/mage/whatever she is. Nor can I quite figure out why Bhaal would want to intentionally mate with something as powerful as a dragon if the plan eventually calls for all the Bhaalspawn to die and fuel his rebirth.
** This Troper always assumed that all the Bhaalspawns grew up at a human rate. After all, you can play an elf and some humans apparently knew your whole life...
** I always assumed that Bhaal had had some other kids before he found out he was going to die.

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*** He's immune to most magic, but he takes damage from Flame Arrow, Melf's Acid Arrow, and Magic Missile-- as Gorion demonstrated. First time this troper beat the game, it was with a party that included three Wizards with nothing but Magic Missiles in their level 1 slots, and those Magic Missiles were what took him down.
demonstrated.
* So was Bhaal planning this resurrection thing many hundreds of years ago? I don't see any What other explanation is there for why two of the most powerful Bhaalspawn are a full-grown dragon ''with a son'' and an adult Drow priestess/mage/whatever she is. Nor can I quite figure out And why Bhaal would want to intentionally mate with something as powerful as a dragon if the plan eventually calls for all the Bhaalspawn to die and fuel his rebirth.
** This Troper always assumed that all the Bhaalspawns grew up at a human rate. After all, you can play an elf and some humans apparently knew your whole life...
** I always assumed that Bhaal had had some other kids before he found out he was going to die.
rebirth?



** The sheer number of cameos was silly. It's like BG [=NPCs=] are migratory or something. ''Everyone'' ended up in Amn along with you.
*** Not everyone. Kivan didn't. Considering his whole mission in ''[=BG1=]'' was to [[BestServedCold kill Tazok for killing his wife,]] I didn't understand why he wasn't there, especially since he's from Shilmista and Tazok shows up again in SoA. Except for the fact that his voice actor became the voice of Anomen. There is a mod that puts him in the game, though.
*** Branwen, Yeslick, Shar-Teel, Eldoth, and Skie didn't make it, either, from what I remember. Not that I think anyone cared.
*** Branwen did make it. She's got a cameo in the beginning tutorial section of the second game.



** I think if two half-elves have a kid in Forgotten Realms, the child is also a half-elf. So Bhaal simply shapeshifted into a half-elf and knocked up another half-elf. Or shapeshifted into a human and knocked up an elf. Or shapeshifted into an elf and knocked up a human.
** [[BloodNightmaster This troper]] likes to think of it in Harry Potter terms-- anything referred to as 'half-elf' is usually just a human/humanoid with any measure of elven blood. Either that or it counts on technicality, assuming the player's mother was a full-blooded elf the result would be ''half'' elf, half Bhaal... but with that logic any race you play as in the game would be considered mixed anyway. Maybe it's not so exact as much as it is the closest thing the PC can get to describing themselves as.

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** I think if If two half-elves have a kid in Forgotten Realms, the child is also a half-elf. So Bhaal simply shapeshifted into a half-elf and knocked up another half-elf. Or shapeshifted into a human and knocked up an elf. Or shapeshifted into an elf and knocked up a human.
** [[BloodNightmaster This troper]] likes to think of it Or maybe it's in Harry Potter terms-- anything referred to as 'half-elf' is usually just a human/humanoid with any measure of elven blood. Either that or it counts on technicality, assuming the player's mother was a full-blooded elf the result would be ''half'' elf, half Bhaal... but with that logic any race you play as in the game would be considered mixed anyway. Maybe it's not so exact as much as it is the closest thing the PC can get to describing themselves as.



** I suspect that Bhaal is as such that anything he breeds with, from humans to half elves to dragons, to rabbits are born as Bhaalspawn with no visible indication of his half of the genes.
*** I think that's correct, too. Otherwise all Dwarf [=PCs=] would be half-dwarf, etc.

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** I suspect that Bhaal is as likely such that anything he breeds with, from humans to half elves to dragons, to rabbits are born as Bhaalspawn with no visible indication of his half of the genes.
*** I think that's correct, too.
genes. Otherwise all Dwarf [=PCs=] would be half-dwarf, etc.



* Upon reading the epilogue for assuming Bhaal's power, this troper was utterly incensed by the humungous FridgeLogic that apparently smacks your chosen romance option over the head. Apparently a former mortal becoming a god automatically means they sever contact with all their earthly friends forever, as there's absolutely no mention of any of your romances ever hearing from you ever again, two even end up marrying other people. The reason this enraged me so much is that three of your romance choices (Anomen, Aerie, Viconia) are ''clerics'', and Viconia even expresses a fervent desire to become your first high-priestess, yet despite their personal, intimate connection to the divine realms, these epic-level clerics cannot apparently perform an act that a first level cleric needs to do to cast the simplest cantrip. That being communication with the gods. It is explainable in part by Anomen and Viconia, who both pay tribute to radical-minded deities who would probably object to losing their newest epic-level followers to the new kid on the block, but even this is subverted by the fact that Aerie pays equal tribute to both a Gnomish and Avariel god at the same time, and is equally powerful as the other two. Even more stupid to me is that the question of having an earthly avatar never comes up. Bhaal walked the earth as an avatar, and could obviously interact with mortals up to and including having pregnancy-resulting consensual and nonconsensual sex with them. The entire affair of never seeing your loved-one again when there are so many obvious ways around this, on top of the fact your romances will as one act as if your godhood didn't exist and marry others after you is a source of continual nerd-rage for this troper.
** Sadly, the real reason is just bad writing, in both the long paragraph and the small note above. There's no good reason whatsoever.
*** The mere fact that you don't like it doesn't automatically make it bad writing. In Forgotten Realms, deities are psychologically extremely different from mortals and no longer possess a mortal perspective. That the games remember this instead of just handwaving it for the sake of a minor godling's super speshul romantic relationship actually makes it pretty good writing in my book.
** You are essentially choosing an immortal lifespan and resigned to watching your lover die, while existing on a plane that may be apart from them, even presumably in death. It's essentially making the decision that Arwen didn't make in ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings''.
** Many of these theories make sense until you remember Mystra, goddess of magic, violates them all the time - She not only possessed Dornal Silverhand's wife to give birth to the Seven Sisters, but it's also widely accepted that she slept with [[GodModeSue Elminster]]. It seems gods ''are'' capable of continuing romances with mortals if they feel like it.
*** Mystra possessing Dornal Silverhand's wife was in order to beget the mortal that would eventually either replace her or beget the mortals that would fight alongside the one that would replace her (aka Mystra's Chosen Ones), as Mystra may have also predicted her own death at the hands of Helm during the Time of Troubles. Elminster was one of her Chosen Ones, which means he was specifically blessed by her in the ways of magic. Sure, your PC could make their former lover a Chosen One as well, but the fact that your lover knew you as a mortal puts a more personal spin on the god-and-Chosen-One relationship than if a god saw a mortal that had potential, made them a Chosen one, and then formed an attachment to them. I sincerely doubt Elminster could have gotten away with not doing the goddess' will, she would have stripped him of his power. Also, the story of Kelemvor is probably a good parallel to this, as he had initially some problems being the new god of the dead, got himself in big trouble with many of the other deities, and was too lenient in judging the deceased as a result of his being a former human that ascended to godhood. It wasn't until he realized that there was nothing human about being a god that he was able to perform his godly duties successfully, and the fact that his lover Midnight became a goddess around the same time meant that he didn't really have much in the way of attachments to the living. Having attachments to the living would severely hamper <charname> being a god of the dead as well. Also note that Mystra and her successor, Midnight, are both deceased now, but Kelemvor is very much still in power.



** This troper would like to second the sentiments of the OP. They could have written in a few more 'break' points where the main plot was less pressing, if only so that the player needn't feel like a complete moron for chasing down ore for finicky artists and investigating various breakdowns in the local entertainment industry while everything else is going on...



** I always assumed they were the secret Council that controls Amn, who have presumably been keeping tabs on the PC since his/her arrival.



*** We're also forgetting how D&D applied the Lawful alignment. It doesn't mean you obey the good and just laws of the world, it means you obey the laws of whatever higher authority it is you are under. There are numerous evil characters in Zhentil Keep who were Lawful Evil for example. It's a very good mercenary alignment because you do evil things but in a lawful way. All that alignment means is that they have strict honor systems or codes of conduct that they use to perform their various murders. A good example is an assassin of Bhaal who only kills when it's mandated by the church.

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*** We're also forgetting Don't forget how D&D applied the Lawful alignment. It doesn't mean you obey the good and just laws of the world, it means you obey the laws of whatever higher authority it is you are under. There are numerous evil characters in Zhentil Keep who were Lawful Evil for example. It's a very good mercenary alignment because you do evil things but in a lawful way. All that alignment means is that they have strict honor systems or codes of conduct that they use to perform their various murders. A good example is an assassin of Bhaal who only kills when it's mandated by the church.



* If Sarevok and [[spoiler: the PC]] can't be resurrected because Bhaalspawn cease to exist when they're killed, how come [[spoiler:Imoen]] has no such problem?
** I think the problem here is that Imoen was eventually given a much bigger role in the games than the creators originally envisioned. She was never meant to be in the first game at all, but was created because there was no good-aligned thief available early in the game. She was supposed to die in prison in the second game, but because she was popular they let her live. I don't know when it was decided that she would be Bhaalspawn, but I'm guessing it was after the first game came out for sure.

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* If Sarevok and [[spoiler: the PC]] PC can't be resurrected because Bhaalspawn cease to exist when they're killed, how come [[spoiler:Imoen]] has no such problem?
** I think Part of the problem here is that Imoen was eventually given a much bigger role in the games than the creators originally envisioned. She was never meant to be in the first game at all, but was created because there was no good-aligned thief available early in the game. She was supposed to die in prison in the second game, but because she was popular they let her live. I don't know when it was decided that she would be Bhaalspawn, but I'm guessing it was after the first game came out for sure.



** I would be completely willing to chalk it up to GameplayAndStorySegregation if it weren't for that one derp line where she ''references dying''. Which happens in ToB, at which point the writers have no excuse.

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** I would be completely willing to You could chalk it up to GameplayAndStorySegregation if it weren't for that one derp line where she ''references dying''. Which happens in ToB, at which point the writers have no excuse.



** My headcanon is that he was already running a circus and being a foster father to Aerie, but had to temporarily travel to Baldur's Gate and left everything in her hands (or in the hands of someone else), and never actually told Charname about his life because he's arrogant with strangers. When we meet him again in Athkatla, he now knows us, and also trust us very much because we save him, so he even thinks that Aerie would be in good hands with us (although this could be a little inconsistent if Charname is a chaotic evil psychopath but the game is all tailored for a good playthrough). Considering that his personality, as well of that of other characters, is a bit retconned between the two games, this explanation wouldn't collide with what the game offers.

* While a human or half-elf makes sense, the main character having the build of a young adult if belonging to any of the slower-aging races is hard to explain, since he is at best twenty years of age. This goes for the other Bhaalspawn as well.

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** My headcanon is that Perhaps he was already running a circus and being a foster father to Aerie, but had to temporarily travel to Baldur's Gate and left everything in her hands (or in the hands of someone else), and never actually told Charname about his life because he's arrogant with strangers. When we meet him again in Athkatla, he now either knows us, and also trust us very much from before or trusts use because we save him, so he even thinks that Aerie would be in good hands with us (although this could be a little inconsistent if Charname is a chaotic evil psychopath but the game is all tailored for a good playthrough). Considering that his personality, as well of that of other characters, is a bit retconned between the two games, this explanation wouldn't collide with what the game offers.

* While a human or half-elf makes sense, the main character having the build of a young adult if belonging to any of the slower-aging races is hard to explain, since he s/he is at best twenty years of age. This goes for the other Bhaalspawn as well.



** This troper always assumed Sarevok learned a lot wandering around Hell. Spending upwards of a year in Bhaal's domain has to count for something.

* Why are the Drow so self-referential? It bugs me that they remind you that they're drow and evil every other sentence. The one that sticks out the most in this troper's head is Keldorn protesting killing the deep gnomes and Phaere commenting, "An odd sentiment, for a drow." It just comes off as bad writing, or a really weird need to remind everyone that, yes, we are drow and evil.
** For starters, Phaere has already been punished for not acting enough like a drow. If you let Solafein live, he will tell you their back story. I think Phaere is over-compensating for her previous "failure" of falling in love with Solafein by jumping down the throat of anyone that doesn't act drow-like enough. Protesting a senseless killing ''isn't'' very drow-like, because the drow enjoy senseless killing. Phaere noting that it's an odd sentiment for a drow is a warning to the player that their cover could be blown if they keep protesting, but also could be Phaere thinking she has a heretic on her hands that may need punishment or killing. Whether this would get her mother to treat her better is debateable, but at least she'd be proving she's a good drow. Other than that, it seems the drow's religious society is insanely strict, and any deviation or worship of a deity other than Loloth is punishable by torture or death.
** Phaere's overcompensating is a good point, but mostly it is, unfortunately, just bad writing that pertains to the drow as a concept in general. They are a [[PlanetOfHats Subrace of Evil]] and will tell you that at every opportunity, because there is nothing more to them than that. The drow are a social, economical and philosophical nonsense that mostly serves as a vessel for assorted likes or [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen dislikes]] [[AuthorAppeal of their creator.]]
* I personally take it as a form of self-reinforcement, their mantra of reminding themselves "this is how Drow act, if we do anything else, even the other drow will suspect us", "we are drow, everyone hates us, we can't forget that and go soft, otherwise they might stick us in the back when we're nice", and things like that.

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** This troper always assumed Sarevok He also might have learned a lot wandering around Hell. Spending upwards of a year in Bhaal's domain has to count for something.

* Why are the Drow so self-referential? It bugs me that they remind you that they're drow and evil every other sentence. The one that sticks out the most in this troper's head is Keldorn protesting killing the deep gnomes and Phaere commenting, "An odd sentiment, for a drow." It just comes off as bad writing, or a really weird need to remind everyone that, yes, we are drow and evil.
** For starters, Phaere has already been punished for not acting enough like a drow. If you let Solafein live, he will tell you their back story. I think Phaere is over-compensating for her previous "failure" of falling in love with Solafein by jumping down the throat of anyone that doesn't act drow-like enough. Protesting a senseless killing ''isn't'' very drow-like, because the drow enjoy senseless killing. Phaere noting that it's an odd sentiment for a drow is a warning to the player that their cover could be blown if they keep protesting, but also could be Phaere thinking she has a heretic on her hands that may need punishment or killing. Whether this would get her mother to treat her better is debateable, but at least she'd be proving she's a good drow. Other than that, it seems the drow's religious society is insanely strict, and any deviation or worship of a deity other than Loloth is punishable by torture or death.
** Phaere's overcompensating is a good point, but mostly it is, unfortunately, just bad writing that pertains to the drow as a concept in general. They are a [[PlanetOfHats Subrace of Evil]] and will tell you that at every opportunity, because there is nothing more to them than that. The drow are a social, economical and philosophical nonsense that mostly serves as a vessel for assorted likes or [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen dislikes]] [[AuthorAppeal of their creator.]]
* I personally take it as a form of self-reinforcement, their mantra of reminding themselves "this is how Drow act, if we do anything else, even the other drow will suspect us", "we are drow, everyone hates us, we can't forget that and go soft, otherwise they might stick us in the back when we're nice", and things like that.
something.



*** This actually seems like a bit of FridgeBrilliance to me. Bhaal is the god of the moment when a living being is transitioning into a dead one, right? And the actual dead were Myrkul's (now Kelemvor's) domain. If you're a god of a transitionary period, there's nothing but your own choice to dictate which direction it ultimately goes in. A good god of death could probably be convinced to help dying people hang onto life as often as not, since it really doesn't impact your domain if they pull through or pass on - they just need to be ''dying'', not ''dead''. An evil god of death wouldn't make the effort to help anyone, and would probably be stronger if a lot of people were dying very often; hence 'God of Murder' being more of an end result than a requirement in Bhaal's case.

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*** This actually seems like a bit of FridgeBrilliance to me.FridgeBrilliance. Bhaal is the god of the moment when a living being is transitioning into a dead one, right? And the actual dead were Myrkul's (now Kelemvor's) domain. If you're a god of a transitionary period, there's nothing but your own choice to dictate which direction it ultimately goes in. A good god of death could probably be convinced to help dying people hang onto life as often as not, since it really doesn't impact your domain if they pull through or pass on - they just need to be ''dying'', not ''dead''. An evil god of death wouldn't make the effort to help anyone, and would probably be stronger if a lot of people were dying very often; hence 'God of Murder' being more of an end result than a requirement in Bhaal's case.



*** Very interesting reasoning, I think. New god of 'death' might be {{Psychopomp}}, as Hermes was in Greek mythology. Interesting, fact, that souls of the dead go to the [[{{AfterlifeAntechamber}} Fugue]] Plane, where they're being taken to the destined afterlife by the Deities, they were worshipped in life. Or going to City of Death. But while they wait, some might be bought by baatezu or kidnapped by horde of tanar'ri. Good Bhaalspawn could be guide and protector of dying or guardian of dead souls, who would not tolerate necromancy, like Kelemvor. He might be seen, as source of respite and comfort for those, who died in suffering, illness or battle. More neutral Bhaalspawn could become darker and edgier TheGrimReaper, instead...

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*** Very interesting reasoning, I think.reasoning. New god of 'death' might be {{Psychopomp}}, as Hermes was in Greek mythology. Interesting, fact, that souls of the dead go to the [[{{AfterlifeAntechamber}} Fugue]] Plane, where they're being taken to the destined afterlife by the Deities, they were worshipped in life. Or going to City of Death. But while they wait, some might be bought by baatezu or kidnapped by horde of tanar'ri. Good Bhaalspawn could be guide and protector of dying or guardian of dead souls, who would not tolerate necromancy, like Kelemvor. He might be seen, as source of respite and comfort for those, who died in suffering, illness or battle. More neutral Bhaalspawn could become darker and edgier TheGrimReaper, instead...



*** I'm not sure why this is even a Headscratcher, really. You can only get bandit scalps from bandits. Slaughtering the citizens in towns won't help you, they usually don't have any items on them and there's no "scalping" function that allows you to take the scalps of anyone you kill. If you're asking why the other [=NPCs=] are written to assume that you're only turning in bandit scalps, apparently the game is skewed in favour of the good side and the development team didn't think of a PC who went around murdering random souls for their scalps. I don't think this game was meant to be a wide-open sandbox where you could do anything you wanted to.

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*** I'm not sure why this is even a Headscratcher, really. You can only get bandit scalps from bandits. Slaughtering the citizens in towns won't help you, they usually don't have any items on them and there's no "scalping" function that allows you to take the scalps of anyone you kill. If you're asking the question is why the other [=NPCs=] are written to assume that you're only turning in bandit scalps, apparently the game is skewed in favour of the good side and the development team didn't think of a PC who went around murdering random souls for their scalps. I don't think this This game was probably wasn't meant to be a wide-open sandbox where you could do anything you wanted to.



* So when did I find time to visit Ulgoth's Beard or Watcher's Keep? I don't mean gameplay wise, but rather story-wise. Given how imperative your quests are (especially late in the game, which is genrally the point you're high enough level to tackle these areas) it seems odd that you'd just wander off to do a bit of random adventuring. Perhaps the part that I have the biggest problem with is the Werewolf island, where it specifically states a one-way trip takes an entire month (even if it wasn't reflected on the calendar). Does Sarevok's master plan have two months of down time we can take advantage of or something?

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* So when did I is CHARNAME supposed to find time to visit Ulgoth's Beard or Watcher's Keep? I don't mean Not gameplay wise, but rather story-wise. Given how imperative your quests are (especially late in the game, which is genrally the point you're high enough level to tackle these areas) it seems odd that you'd just wander off to do a bit of random adventuring. Perhaps the part that I have the biggest problem with is the Werewolf island, where it Island even specifically states a one-way trip takes an entire month (even if it wasn't reflected on the calendar). Does Sarevok's master plan have two months of down time we can take advantage of or something?



*** It's approximately 5 months between the ending of ''[=BG1=]'' and beginning of ''[=BG2=]'', and you've only been captured for around a month or so roughly. Also, keep in mind, Minsc and Dynaheir had time to learn of your disappearance and then manage to track you to Athkatla in order to be captured (A lot of people forget that Minsc/Dynahier explicitly were NOT captured at the same time as you, Imeon, Jaheria, and Khalid, but instead were captured after they began poking around Amn to find you).
*** Wait, where is this said about Minsc and Dynaheir?
*** I think you guys missed the point. Ulgoth's Beard, Durlag's Tower, Ice Island, and the Island of Balderan have to be done BEFORE you go after Sarevok, otherwise the game ends after you beat him and you're locked out of doing the side quests entirely. So this means that you decide to leave him alone while you go off to the Island of Balderan for a couple of months, then come back and kick his tail. The problem is that the main part of the game doesn't mention any of these places ahead of time aside from Marl in Beregost mentioning Ulgoth's Beard, since they're all in the expansion pack, and the only way to access them is to go to Ulgoth's Beard first and then go to the extra questing areas. It makes it jarring story-wise when playing the game the first time with the expansion pack, and the difficulty of the ''[=BG1:TotSC=]'' quests means that most people will leave the expansion pack for last as well. There is nothing in either game that states that the expansion pack quests are quests that you're doing in the five months between games, and since you can't do them after Sarevok's death at all, there's no reason to assume this, either.
*** All of this definitely gets complicated because of Siege of Dragonspear. What we do between the two games is dealing with Caelar, thus all the TotSC missions must be done before fighting Sarevok.

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*** It's approximately 5 months between the ending of ''[=BG1=]'' and beginning of ''[=BG2=]'', and you've only been captured for around a month or so roughly. Also, keep in mind, Minsc and Dynaheir had time to learn of your disappearance and then manage to track you to Athkatla in order to be captured (A lot of people forget that Minsc/Dynahier explicitly were NOT captured at the same time as you, Imeon, Jaheria, and Khalid, but instead were captured after they began poking around Amn to find you).
roughly.
*** Wait, where is this said about Minsc and Dynaheir?
*** I think you guys missed the point.
Ulgoth's Beard, Durlag's Tower, Ice Island, and the Island of Balderan have to be done BEFORE you go after Sarevok, otherwise the game ends after you beat him and you're locked out of doing the side quests entirely. So this means that you decide to leave him alone while you go off to the Island of Balderan for a couple of months, then come back and kick his tail. The problem is that the main part of the game doesn't mention any of these places ahead of time aside from Marl in Beregost mentioning Ulgoth's Beard, since they're all in the expansion pack, and the only way to access them is to go to Ulgoth's Beard first and then go to the extra questing areas. It makes it jarring story-wise when playing the game the first time with the expansion pack, and the difficulty of the ''[=BG1:TotSC=]'' quests means that most people will leave the expansion pack for last as well. There is nothing in either game that states that the expansion pack quests are quests that you're doing in the five months between games, and since you can't do them after Sarevok's death at all, there's no reason to assume this, either.
*** All of this definitely gets complicated because of Siege ''Siege of Dragonspear. Dragonspear''). What we do between the two games is dealing with Caelar, thus all the TotSC missions must be done (if they are done at all) before fighting Sarevok.



* Does anyone else think that the handling of Reputation is pretty half-arsed? I mean, yes, Good party members complaining when it's low, that's all sensible. But Evil ones complaining when it grows too high, or Neutral characters when either happens, that really doesn't make sense. Especially for Viconia; she joins the player's party in both games specifically to shield herself from people who see "drow" and think "kill it!" -- shouldn't she be smart enough to realise that a reputation as somebody who does good deeds or is generally heroic is an added layer of protection, winnowing down the number of people who want her skull on a pike?

to:

* Does anyone else think that the handling of Reputation is pretty half-arsed? I mean, yes, Good party members complaining when it's your Reputation is low, that's all sensible. But Evil ones complaining when it grows too high, or Neutral characters when either happens, that really doesn't make sense. Especially for Viconia; she joins the player's party in both games specifically to shield herself from people who see "drow" and think "kill it!" -- shouldn't she be smart enough to realise that a reputation as somebody who does good deeds or is generally heroic is an added layer of protection, winnowing down the number of people who want her skull on a pike?



*** It seems to have been altered for Enhanced Edition, at least in the first game. I ran a good-aligned, Reputation 20 party for the vast majority of ''[=BG:EE=]'', and Jaheria (the only neutral member) only ever used her positive comment on the party's reputation. I remember finding her insufferable in the original release of the game because in the same circumstances, she would only use her "mildly annoyed" comment. The one that insinuated that she would be a better leader than CHARNAME.

* Dorn's epilogue, especially romanced. My nigh-demigod Bhaalspawn has already kicked Mercy Whitedove's ass already. Why am I even bothering to try and escape from her with my epic-level Blackguard lover instead of just finishing her off once and for all? Much less barely escaping and having Dorn be captured.

* In ''[=BG2=]'', when you first encounter Imoen in Spellhold, she's a psychotic wreck and an EmptyShell. After you lose your soul, she suddenly regains her sanity and can jump right back into your party. Headcanon is that my group happened to have a Heal spell on hand, but does game itself give any explanation for this?
** Not that I can remember. But I figured Irenicus was keeping Imoen passive with magic.

* Apparently one of the romance epilogues in the Enhanced Edition has you DIE. Not just DIE, but get stuffed into the fridge solely to spite your love interest. Excuse me, but what the fuck? If you personally defeated monsters like Demogorgon, I find it sincerely hard to comprehend how a thing like this is even physically possible.
** After giving up her godly powers, 20+ years of living peacefully and birthing 7 kids. CHARNAME's fighting abilities are not going to be what they used to be, especially if they're Human or Half-Orc. What I want to know is why despite giving up all the Bhaal essence, the kids are implied to have powers from it.

to:

*** It seems to have been altered for Enhanced Edition, at least in the first game. I ran a good-aligned, Reputation 20 party for the vast majority of ''[=BG:EE=]'', and Jaheria (the only neutral member) only ever used her positive comment on the party's reputation. I remember finding her insufferable in the original release of the game because in the same circumstances, she would only use her "mildly annoyed" comment. The one that insinuated that she would be a better leader than CHARNAME.

* Dorn's epilogue, especially romanced. My nigh-demigod Bhaalspawn has already kicked Mercy Whitedove's ass already. Why am I even bothering to try and escape from her with my epic-level Blackguard lover instead of just finishing her off once and for all? Much less barely escaping and having Dorn be captured.


* In ''[=BG2=]'', when you first encounter Imoen in Spellhold, she's a psychotic wreck and an EmptyShell. After you lose your soul, she suddenly regains her sanity and can jump right back into your party. Headcanon is that my group happened to have a Heal spell on hand, but does Does game itself give any explanation for this?
** Not that I can remember. But I figured Maybe Irenicus was keeping Imoen passive with magic.

magic?

* Apparently one of the romance epilogues in the Enhanced Edition has you DIE. Not just DIE, but get stuffed into the fridge solely to spite your love interest. Excuse me, but what the fuck? If you personally defeated monsters like Demogorgon, I find it sincerely hard to comprehend how is a thing like this is even physically possible.
possible?
** After giving up her godly powers, 20+ years of living peacefully and birthing 7 kids. CHARNAME's fighting abilities are not going to be what they used to be, especially if they're she's Human or Half-Orc. What I want to know The real question is why why, despite giving up all the Bhaal essence, the kids are implied to have powers from it.



* Why is Imoen never given a trial or even a chance to explain herself? From what I can gather Amn isn't some kind of facist PoliceState or whatever so I doubt they just lock up anyone they think is guilty with no due process of any sort. (The same could be said for Irenecus, though it's a lot more obvious he's the guilty party so I'm not sure what he could say in his defense).
** Actually, as far a misuse of magic is concerned Amn is a police state. The Cowled Wizards don't really answer to anybody (except, theoretically, the Council of Six, but good luck getting them to intervene).

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* Why is Imoen never given a trial or even a chance to explain herself? From what I can gather Amn isn't some kind of facist PoliceState or whatever so I doubt whatever, it's not like they just lock up anyone they think is guilty with no due process of any sort. (The same could be said for Irenecus, Irenicus, though it's a lot more obvious he's the guilty party so I'm not sure what he could say in his defense).
party).
** Actually, as far a misuse of magic is concerned concerned, Amn is ''is'' a police state. The Cowled Wizards don't really answer to anybody (except, theoretically, the Council of Six, but good luck getting them to intervene).



* So in Siege of Dragonspear Duke Silvershield is alive again. Narratively it's a bit cheap, but this is a universe with resurrection magic, so whatever. Except... if it was possible to bring him back from the dead, why were the other Dukes in such a rush to replace him with Sarevok? Resurrection spells don't take ''that'' long.

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* So in Siege ''Siege of Dragonspear Dragonspear'', Duke Silvershield is alive again. Narratively it's a bit cheap, but this is a universe with resurrection magic, so whatever. Except... if it was possible to bring him back from the dead, why were the other Dukes in such a rush to replace him with Sarevok? Resurrection spells don't take ''that'' long.
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** Wait, was the Duke himself killed or was it just his son, as you saw in Kagain's quest and was noted by the man himself in Siege?
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** I only mentioned romance because you don't really get that many dialogues with most [=NPCs=] outside of the romances (and because I've seen it asserted elsewhere that she doesn't talk about her wings outside of the romance dialogue, which is factually untrue). And yes, most banters in the game are about the recipient of the banter, not the initiator of the banter. That doesn't make Aerie unique. What does, however, is the way she interjects her complaining in to the banter anyways. She'll talk to Minsc about Rashemen, sure, but whines about how she was taken from her home in the process. She can even whine about her wings while she's still an ogre. As for real life - well, in the real world I'd tell anyone like Aerie to find professional help. This isn't some macho InternetToughGuy garbage - it's because in the real world, depression and PTSD are serious diseases that don't get solved by meeting a kind stranger who offers up some encouraging words and the idea that they do is an all-too-prevalent one that hurts actual people who really exist. But that's RealLife. In the real world, I'd also want to talk about, say, having my parents killed by monsters and an evil slaver and smuggler trying to force me to marry him against my will, or having my lover/husband killed, or especially, being brutally tortured and then having my soul sucked out. And yet, everyone but poor little Aerie manages not to whine about it, and in fact rarely ever mention their issues at all outside of their designated questlines or romances, even though she's had the most time to get over her issues and actually has someone she's close to outside of the party to try and work this out with.

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** I only mentioned romance because you don't really get that many dialogues with most [=NPCs=] outside of the romances (and because I've seen it asserted elsewhere that she doesn't talk about her wings outside of the romance dialogue, which is factually untrue). And yes, most banters in the game are about the recipient of the banter, not the initiator of the banter. That doesn't make Aerie unique. What does, however, is the way she interjects her complaining in to the banter anyways. She'll talk to Minsc about Rashemen, sure, but whines about how she was taken from her home in the process. She can even whine about her wings while she's still an ogre. As for real life - well, in the real world I'd tell anyone like Aerie to find professional help. This isn't some macho InternetToughGuy Internet posturing garbage - it's because in the real world, depression and PTSD are serious diseases that don't get solved by meeting a kind stranger who offers up some encouraging words and the idea that they do is an all-too-prevalent one that hurts actual people who really exist. But that's RealLife. In the real world, I'd also want to talk about, say, having my parents killed by monsters and an evil slaver and smuggler trying to force me to marry him against my will, or having my lover/husband killed, or especially, being brutally tortured and then having my soul sucked out. And yet, everyone but poor little Aerie manages not to whine about it, and in fact rarely ever mention their issues at all outside of their designated questlines or romances, even though she's had the most time to get over her issues and actually has someone she's close to outside of the party to try and work this out with.

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