Created By: DarkSasami on October 15, 2009
Troped

Horse Wiener

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Trope
An equippable item in a game that increases your stats. For no good reason at all.

Named after the infamous and terrifying item from Disgaea, which grants 110 Attack, 30 Speed, 30 Hit, and over 9000 lulz.

I don't think we have this but I only searched the first 10 result pages for "item" and "equipment".
Community Feedback Replies: 84
  • October 15, 2009
    Kilyle
    There is no way I'm gonna vote for that title, but yeah, we need a trope to cover this.

    Do we have any existing tropes about how odd it is that equipment raises your stats in the way it does? I mean, put on a belt, raise your intelligence and ability to cast spells? Put on some earrings, become more agile? What the heck is this?
  • October 15, 2009
    Dick Richardson
    We do, but I can't find the correct pages.

    OP needs to be moar specific. I mean, a lot of items give Stat Buffs, but are they Lethal Joke Weapons, oddly named, or what?
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    I don't need to be more specific; you need to be more general. This is any equippable item in a game that increases your stats for no obvious reason.

    If you equip a sword, your attack will usually go up. That's a reason. However, if you put on a glove and your intelligence goes up, there's no reason for that, unless it's specifically stated to be enchanted. And usually, it isn't. That's the phenomenon I'm talking about here.

    And yes, I realize that this is not a perfect world, and the trope may not end up named Horse Wiener. That is the correct name, and anyone who disagrees is unfortunately mistaken; but I've made my peace with that, and will not fight if there's a name that, in lieu of being the correct name, is merely clear, popular, and searchable.
  • October 15, 2009
    Durazno
    Most JRP Gs have something like this.

    Would the famous Ribbons from Final Fantasy count? They don't raise stats, but they do protect you from status ailments for no apparent reason.

    Another Disgaea example could be the Glasses. They make sense on the surface, but then Fridge Logic kicks in and you wonder how a random pair of nerd glasses would help your axe-wielding warrior hit more often when he has no problem with swords or spears.

    Horse Wiener should at least be a redirect. But whether it would be to here or Biggus Dickus, I have no idea.
  • October 15, 2009
    BlackDragon
    Several games, including the Shadow Hearts series and Disgaea series, uses Belts as a strength-enhancing accessory. Which makes very little sense, but is probably derived from various MYTHOLOGICAL strength-enhancing belts, such as Thor's Girdle of Strength.

    (I don't think the Glasses from Disgaea count. Glasses are, after all, designed to improve vision, so boosting accuracy makes at least a LITTLE sense. The fact that they also boost intelligence, presumably because glasses = geeks, is harder to defend, but it's still fringe at best.)
  • October 15, 2009
    Unknown Troper
    How about the legendary Ribbon items in the Final Fantasy series, or a lot of the items with skills and abilities bound to them in Final Fantasy IX for that matter?
  • October 15, 2009
    Ajardoor
  • October 15, 2009
    Michael
    At first I thought this was a trope about foodstuffs that are not what they're supposed to be, like the famous not-a-sausage in Mrs Miggins restaurant in Blackadder 3.
  • October 15, 2009
    arromdee
    The belts are probably not stolen directly from mythology, but from Dungeons and Dragons, which has such things (some of which it in turn stole from mythology).
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    This seems to be covered by Lethal Joke Item.
  • October 15, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    No, Lethal Joke Item isn't the same as this. A Lethal Joke Item is an item that seems silly but turns out to be ridicuously powerful. This is simply about items where the stat bonuses they give don't really make sense with what they are.

    For example, in Super Mario RPG, the Red Scarf is not a Lethal Joke Item; it is neither lethal nor a joke item. However, it is this trope, because it grants a significant bonus to the wearer's Speed - and why on earth should wearing a scarf increase your Speed?
  • October 15, 2009
    bluepenguin
    why on earth should wearing a scarf increase your Speed?

    Well, if it's red...
  • October 15, 2009
    DracMonster
    Combo Platter Stat Boosts possibly since this is like Combo Platter Powers.

    The main problem with Horse Weiner is wiki policy discourages offensive language like four letter words. Weiner is borderline and not really appropriate to a trope that isn't sex related. Also it's not even slighty intuitive if you haven't played Disgaea.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    How about Scarf Boosts Speed. Since it's clear a scarf can't do that, it should help make the trope clear.
  • October 15, 2009
    deuxhero
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    The most exact title would be "Equipment Boosts Unrelated Stats", but that's a bit long, yet would be great as a redirect.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    I don't like Scarf Boosts Speed because every word in it could be interpreted as either a noun or a verb. Also it's too specific, and also it's a complete sentence, which makes for bad inline usage. The name should resolve to a noun or noun phrase. What about something along the lines of Scarf Plus Two?
  • October 15, 2009
    JAF1970
    Besides, it's spelled Weiner.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Dude. Don't attempt to be a Grammar Nazi when you are, in fact, wrong.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    Anyway (since I realize you meant the other guy), I did think that suggestion was a bit off, so how does the correction work?
  • October 15, 2009
    deuxhero
    @Iron Salticus I played it and didn't think it was a specific example untill you said it was.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
  • October 15, 2009
    Unknown Troper
    The badges in Mario And Luigi Superstar Saga (and sequels) and Paper Mario. Why does a badge increase attack power, stats and make an Infinity Plus One Sword? God knows.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    (Iron Salticus posted this. It just got put on another ykttw by a glitch.)

    Scarf Boosts Speed sounds good. Even though it's referencing a specific example, the meaning is perfectly clear whether or not you've played Super Mario RPG, so it's not confusing or ambiguous.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Already denied. You can't use Scarf Boosts Speed as part of a sentence. The idea is to add to the lexicon of terms, not to have to Pot Hole everything. For example:

    • The Handy Glove is a Scarf Boosts Speed that for some reason lets you break stone blocks.
    • The Handy Glove is a Thingie Of Inexplicable Stat Boosting that for some reason lets you break stone blocks.

    Now, which of those makes sense?
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    ^^I didn't post that. I just moved it after a ykttw glitch. My actual reply to you is a few posts above that.
  • October 15, 2009
    Madrugada
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Yes, I saw that. I don't know what your reply a few posts up means, though. I can't figure out the referents to "that suggestion" and "the correction."
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    See the three posts above that to get the context.

    Yet I do think mad got it better.
  • October 15, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    Ah, I wasn't familiar with that item naming format. Speed Boosting Scarf sounds good, then.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Man, people like scarves around here.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    The point is that it's an item that obviously doesn't have to do with speed. So it fits a trope about items that boost stats they reasonably shouldn't.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Interestingly, scarves and speed are not wholly unlinked in the collective unconscious.
  • October 15, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    Actually, I misremembered the Super Mario RPG example; Scarf boosts Attack, not Speed. Speed is boosted by a Feather. (Both are still examples.)

    It doesn't matter. If your problem is that scarfs and speed are vaguely connected by Peanuts, then don't use that combination. Pick any nonsensical item/stat combination as the Trope Name. Make it Speed Bosting Feather. Make it Attack Boosting Scarf. Make it Whateverribbonsboosts Boosting Ribbon (I haven't played the Final Fantasy games in question). Even make it something that isn't based on an actual example, like Intelligence Boosting Shirt. Just, whatever you do, don't name it Thingie Of Inexplicable Stat Boosting - a name that, compared to the alternatives, not even SPOON would support.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Right. Horse Wiener it is, then.
  • October 15, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    Oh, I see. You're sulking because your suggestion - which gives no hint as to the trope's content to those who haven't played one particular game and which implies something else entirely - was less-than-well-received for obvious reasons. That explains it. Of course, it doesn't explain why you promised not to fight if clear, popular, and searchable titles emerged and then proceeded to do exactly the opposite.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    Attack Boosting Belt? I can't remember any specific games, but there are some where belts boost attack.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Iron Salticus, I'm not sulking -- I'm teasing. I'm playing you like a fiddle. It's hilarious. :D

    Seriously, I do support something more metasyntactic, because naming a specific item could be confusing, which is why I proposed the "thingie" title. I have no idea why you're so averse to it.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    The problem with being vague about the item, is that we have to be vague about the stat, while still making it clear it's not a stat you'd expect. And "inexplicable" does not imply that. It could be the number of the stat that is inexplicable, for one thing.
  • October 15, 2009
    DarkSasami
    Hmm, live by the overanalysis of trivial detail, die by the overanalysis of trivial detail--you've got a point there, DQZ. Still, as evidenced by your first reaction in the thread, and also Dick Richardson's first reaction, people respond very strongly to the nature of the item in the title rather than to what the text says. (cf. Incredibly Lame Pun.) That's why I think it's better to present the concept rather than an example as the title.
  • October 15, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    Why Would It Boost That Stat. It's not that easy to fit in a sentence, but perhaps you can find a way to word it better.
  • October 15, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    People probably reacted to the nature of the item in the title because you chose such an extreme example. Horse Wiener has much stronger connotations, and gives much less of a hint to the trope's actual nature, than any of the X Boosting Y names do.
  • October 16, 2009
    Arilou
    Planescape Torment has a shitload of strange items, including eyeballs (often magical, one of glass, one that is your own) teeth, intestines, a lump of rock...

    Justified becuase A Wizard Did It.
  • October 16, 2009
    Kilyle
    Horse Wiener was chosen to be funny. It's not a serious suggestion for the title because it's an obscure item from a game the majority of readers wouldn't have played, and one which does not in any way suggest the trope from the title of the item itself. (Dark Sasami gets transparent with the humor when she calls it "clear, popular, and searchable".)

    As far as serious titles - bearing in mind that we want something that fits in a sentence - we seem to have two alternatives: generic and specific.

    Generic is Inexplicable Stat Boosting Thing or Thing That For Some Reason Boosts Stats or the like, or Why Would It Boost That Stat.

    Specific is Equip Scarf For Speed Boost or, more compactly (and I think more useful), Speed Boosting Scarf, Attack Boosting Feather, Speed Boosting Rock, etc.

    I strongly favor the shorter and more vivid specific titles. I'm torn between Scarf and Feather; Scarf implies wearable equipment (though obviously an item incapable of boosting the stat) but Feather seems more inexplicable when linking to any stat.
  • October 16, 2009
    DarkSasami
    I like you, Kilyle. You think. Also, feathers are definitely up there in terms of inexplicability.

    On the general side, the word "trinket" has suddenly presented itself to me, and brought some synonyms along to play. Stat Trinket, Boost Bauble. Hmmm.

    For examples, can anyone think of one more Ur than the Handy Glove? Final Fantasy came out nearly a year after Zelda II, or I'd think it was the Ribbon.
  • October 16, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    If I recall correctly, the original Zelda I had a bracelet that made Link capable of pushing some heavy rocks. That certainly fits this trope if Handy Glove does, and Zelda I obviously predates Zelda II. (It also had what I think were meant to be rings that changed the color of Link's tunic and made him resistant to damage.)
  • October 16, 2009
    DracMonster
  • October 16, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    Or to make it really short, Strength Feather.
  • October 16, 2009
    Madrugada
    How about something really bizarre: Shoelaces Of Charisma

    As to more Ur than the Handy Glove, these date all the way back to first edition D&D.
  • October 16, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    Shoelaces can be seen, so it might have to do with charisma.
  • October 16, 2009
    dilbert719
    A slightly shorter SPOON-friendly name: Inexplicable Stat Booster.

    I like Attack Boosting Scarf (since that's the actual example) of the more flavorful names. And also more Ur than the Handy Glove, though not as far back as the Shoelaces, which I can't find a reference to: Power Bracelet. (Zelda I, as opposed to Zelda II) Yes, of course, who can't move giant boulders after putting small bands of bronze around their wrists?
  • October 16, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    I'd have thought things like Strength Feather, X Boosting Y, and so on would be SPOON-friendly. As I understand it, SPOON just wants names to be easily understandable, and names like those make the trope's meaning fairly clear.
  • October 16, 2009
    Unknown Troper
    Since we have Improbable Weapon User, how about something along the lines of Improbable Accessory User? Or Improbable Equipment or Improbable Armour.
  • October 16, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    I can see using a scarf causing confusion with Scarf Of Asskicking, so I would say go with a feather instead. So Feather Of Strength.

    And the description can start off with noting how imbuing items with magic can give them abilities you wouldn't normally think of them having, in the case of this trope, it's boosting stats the item has reasonably nothing to do with.
  • October 16, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    In Improbable Weapon User, the weapon is improbable because it's just so bizarre; who goes into battle wielding a guitar? In this trope, however, the equipment is often perfectly reasonable; what is unreasonable is its effects. Wearing a plate of armour into battle makes sense; it only stops making sense when that armour raises your INT despite ostensibly not being magical.
  • October 20, 2009
    Kilyle
    I'd like to see some of the better title suggestions get up as examples on the trope page here. Even if we don't end up using Shoelaces Of Charisma, it's definitely the sort of phrase that ought to get used somewhere on the page XD

    Are we torn between Adjective Noun and Noun Of Adjective (Strength Feather vs. Feather Of Strength)? Any reason to choose one over the other? Any reason to prefer the extra "Boosting" in there (Strength Boosting Feather) to avoid possible confusion?

    @ Dark Sasami: Thanks for the compliment :)
  • October 20, 2009
    Assistant
  • October 20, 2009
    arekuru
    This seems a lot like Complaining about game stat logic you don't like. What's the page going to turn into? And ongoing list of "Yeah, and why should a pokemon holding a plate have better attacks?" And then there will be the inevitable natter as people start Fan Wanking and adding stuff like "Well, it could be that..."

    Just lump it under Fridge Logic and be done with it.
  • October 20, 2009
    STUART
    ^No, this is a competely objective trope. Having better armor would logically improve your defense. Having a horse wiener in your hand would not.

    Magic Feather is a Fridge Logic explanation for most of these, so the "feather" name make sense: however, they should have a sufficiently distinct adjective to distinguish them, so Strength Feather might not be a good idea (since it's just another stat). Feather Of Power seems distinct enough.

    By example of "cosmetic accessory that boosts stats", I think Power Bracelet conveys the idea best.

    If you need the absolute SPOON-friendliest name, go with Non Cosmetic Accessory.
  • October 20, 2009
    tropesstealsleep
    A lot of the items in Pokemon would likely qualify. Mystic Water boost Water attacks, fine. Dark Sunglasses boost Dark attacks, huh?
  • October 20, 2009
    Some Guy
    I'd say Just Launch It Already except we haven't had any specific examples at all. How about this- somebody make a crowner for a name, and once we have that, discard and make a new proposal where we can actually create a trope page?
  • October 20, 2009
    arekuru
    But what if the item (say, shoes) in question happens to be radioactive, and thus causes a strange mutation (say, to your looks and therefore charisma) but because science isn't that advanced in the world no one's noticed yet - all they know is the shoes boost charisma. I really don't think it's objective because you're just going to end up with a million Justified edits.
  • October 20, 2009
    Prime32
  • October 20, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    The "radioactive" explanation is pure You Fail Nuclear Physics Forever - if it were radioactive, the effect would be less "your [stat] instantly increases/decreases when you put it on and instantly decreases/increases when you take it off" and more "it has no discernible instantaneous effects but wearing it for a very long time may cause you to slowly die of radiation poisoning".

    Please, you can't discard a trope on the grounds that "it's not objective because some tropers might be wrong". Unless you're going to make up Insane Troll Logic like "RADIATION CAUSES INSTANT PRETTYNESS", it's going to be extremely obvious whether something falls under this trope. And almost every trope on this Wiki can be horribly corrupted by that brand of Insane Troll Logic anyhow.
  • October 20, 2009
    arekuru
    Sorry my made-up example offended you on such a deep level. But I fail to see how you're going to keep similar examples off a page of this kind of broad, prone-to-complaining trope unless you tightly clamp it down, and then what's the point?

    Instead of saying there's absolutely no reason to the items having their given effects, why not go back to the "improbable" name suggestions? Tone down the description a bit, call it something like Improbable Accessory Effect, and be done with it.
  • October 29, 2009
    Kilyle
    I believe it's usually obvious to the casual player which items are sensibly linked to their stats and which are not: Armor boosts defense, weapons boost attack, certain weapons strike faster than others, boots could let you move faster due to better traction, etc. Glasses can make you see better and environmental suits can keep you from getting poisoned in noxious terrain.

    On the other hand, feathers do not by any stretch of the imagination make one stronger (unless we're talking a placebo effect), and scarves can't make you smarter (smarter-looking is different). And, short of enchantments, these effects would not be instant the moment you put them on, nor leave you the moment you took them off. (Not to mention, the feather doesn't help you if you're carrying it, only if you're wearing it??)

    I don't see this as a subjective trope; it is an objective trope with a small selection of items that will end up with justifying edits. We don't need to "clamp down" unless the trope, after a while, begins showing a huge problem. We simply don't do that sort of thing on this wiki.

    Someone get that crowner up? It'd be nice to start voting.
  • October 29, 2009
    Giant Space Chinchilla
    Big Lipped Alligator Boots? Boots Of X-Ray Vision?
  • October 29, 2009
    Ajardoor
    My title suggestion again; Big Lipped Alligator Equipment.
  • October 30, 2009
    Iron Salticus
    This is nothing like Big Lipped Alligator Moment; there's no need for a snowclone. This is about an item's effects not matching up with its identity, not about a bizarre item coming out of nowhere and then never being mentioned again.
  • October 30, 2009
    Kilyle
    Yeah, definitely not the right idea with that title, although I can see what you were trying to get at.

    Anyone compile a list of the possible titles to go on the crowner?
  • October 30, 2009
    Ryusui
  • October 30, 2009
    JAF1970
    Jonah Falcon. Oops. You didn't mean that. :p
  • October 30, 2009
    superfroggy
  • October 30, 2009
    Superhal
    Diablo II is pretty much all about getting the biggest Horse Wiener, and players wielding daggers are often laughed at.
  • November 2, 2009
    superfroggy
    I've got it! Infinity Plus WTF Glove! Just Launch It Already, 77 replies seems ridiculous.
  • November 3, 2009
    Unknown Troper
  • November 3, 2009
    Superhal
    Horse Weiner rocks. Try posting a pic from Doom/Quake with a horse weiner so everybody can see how it fits perfectly.

  • November 3, 2009
    Unknown Troper
    Darn, I thought this would actually be about horse wieners in fiction.
  • November 3, 2009
    Assistant
    Improbable Accessory Effect is probably the clearest descriptive name suggested so far so I'm hoping we go with it instead of something less informative but wackier.
  • November 3, 2009
    DragonQuestZ
    Yeah, I second Improbable Accessory Effect. It's nice, clear, and doesn't seem like a porn trope.
  • November 3, 2009
    Bisected8
    I third it.
  • November 3, 2009
    DarkSasami
    That works for me. Funny, I haven't seen that this one got bumped in weeks--bad timing on my part, I suppose. I also second Just Launch It Already, so let's see what I can do about that.
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