Created By: Ardiente on June 17, 2011 Last Edited By: Ardiente on June 12, 2014
Nuked

Japan Pop Narration Influenced

Splitting Animesque into

Name Space:
Main
Page Type:
Trope
I have noticed that the Animesque page had a description that only covered works that you could easily call "anime" if not for fear of enraging the purists, while the examples show lots of works that show anime influences but couldn't possibly be called anime in any meaningful sense, from Dexter's Laboratory to The Matrix.

So I'd like to make a specific, separate trope for stuff that takes cue from general Japanese media. Not just Manga and Anime: Visual Novel, Dating Sim, JRPG, Light Novel, Katarazuka...

A book that seems straight out of a JRPG, or that has a Light Novel-type pacing and style. A movie with the plot elements of a Dating Sim. A western Visual Novel (anime-ish artstyle not complusory). A work that incorporates shounen-esque Hot-Blooded speeches about the spring of youth and The Power of Friendship, or one that incorporates Japan-stlyle Bad Ass rather than Western style

Think Vash The Stampede rather than The Man With No Name, Tidus rather than Will Turner, Char Aznable rather than The Count Of Monte Cristo, the Lagoon crew rather than your average Western Terrorist, Sagara Sosuke rather than Rambo... Bayonetta rather than Lara Croft, Nausicaa rather than Pocahontas, Haruhi rather than Hanna Montana, Chihiro rather than Coraline...

So, common tropes would be including a younger cast (usually teenagers or adults in their twenties rather than the people in their thirties-forties), more imporbable but more dramatic action, including wacky comedy in a way that would feel like Genre-Busting to your average Western viewer, maybe having a Tournament Arc, treating dating and romantic comedy in a very specific way (the Dere tropes being commonly used)... Also, notice how Japanese-influenced Western movies seldom take their cues from Japanese movies or Dorama, but from... the other stuff.

So, it's kinda vague, but let's see what we've got:
  • Firefly: River Tam is a very Anime-ish character. I won't be the first one to remark that Joss Whedon incorporates japanese influences in his work.
  • Snow Crash: T.J. as an extremely young heroine, the incredibly over-the-top action and pacing, the infodumps and the liberal use of Western mythology... And it is AWESOME.
  • The Matrix: This and Heroic Bloodshed. The way the action scenes are handled, the look of the actual storyboard, the Character Archetypes used, Morpheus, Smith and the Oracle's prose...
  • Speed Racer: It's a direct adaptation of an anime. What did you expect?
  • Sucker Punch: yeah... A Sailor Fuku, Katana-wielding girl fights cyborg samurai...
  • Scott Pilgrim: both the comic and the book use lots of Anime, Manga, and much more importantly Videogame influences, but they are Western enough you can't possibly think they're anime, especially the movie.
  • Lots of Fan Fiction, by their very nature, can't possibly be Anime, yet even when they aren't based on anime you can sense the influence, and it doesn't have to be about Seme/Uke interactions only. Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is a pretty good example of this done right. At one point, the author managed to have a scene where Voldemort-as-Quirell saves Harry Potter's life from a group of yaoi fangirls and not only have it be entirely plausible and flowing naturally from the narrative, but most of the readers didn't even notice the enormity of what had just happened ontil someone pointed it out.

Inversion:
Community Feedback Replies: 31
  • June 17, 2011
    Discar
    I say make a trope repair shop discussion for Animesque, to see if it needs a split. This involves lots of modification to an existing trope, so belongs more in TRS.
  • June 17, 2011
    Ardiente
    Arg... I'm banned from posting in the fora. Anyone want to take the job up?
  • June 18, 2011
    Ardiente
    bump
  • June 18, 2011
    EternalSeptember
    Ok, I opened a thread for it
  • June 18, 2011
    Discar
    If this does end up happening, I recommend Western Anime for a name. The idea seems to be that Animesque should be this trope, while the split off should be "exactly like anime, just not Japanese."
  • June 18, 2011
    Ardiente
    ^ I like your idea.

    But it should be extended to Anime AND Manga, such as Original English Language Manga.

    Hmmm, Emp, we love you...

    Also, the Animesque trope should cover all stuff that is anime-influenced, inculding Japanese stuff. As I said, you can't possibly say Haruji Murakam's novels are Animesque, for example: there's lots of Japanese cultrue that doesn't even get close to Anime. The "Animesque" stuff is restricted to part of some genres. Even Dorama adaptations of anime can be not-animesque at all, while Toku and Super Sentai can over-anime anime itself.
  • June 23, 2011
    Ardiente
    bump
  • June 23, 2011
    jate88
    There's a difference between American and Japanese badasses? Does this difference extend down to the core of their personalities or is it cultural differences only?
  • June 24, 2011
    Ardiente
    I think it's a core matter, although there's significant overlap. For example, Spiderman could easily be a Japanese character. He has lots of the traits. On the other hand, if you look at Berserk, you'll see Guts is a very Western-style Badass while Griffith is a very Japan-style one. In fact, they're both taken so far it borders self-parody. They're both incredibly proficient though. Naruto on the other hand is chock-full of Japanese-style badasses... until you get on with the Storm Village. Even then, those guys retain a heavy Japanese slapstick style of humor.

    Let me see. Captain America or Superman or Wolverine are about as American as you get.Kyle Raidner is pretty Japan-style, so's Nightwing.

    Let's have a look at this

    Write A Shonen Series

    Compared to this

    Action Hero

    Would Sagara Sousuke be an Action Hero? Is he played straight?
  • June 24, 2011
    jate88
    The word badass usually brings antihero to mind but that could be errenous reasoning. I do see the difference between an Action Hero and a shonen hero though. I don't like the standards males are held up to in america because of the media but I don't mind antiheros in anime. I've often wondered why I have different reactions.

    Is the relationship between Firefly and Outlaw Star worth a mention?
  • June 25, 2011
    Ardiente
    Maybe? Do elaborate.
  • June 25, 2011
    jate88
    Joss Whedon is often accused of being influenced by Outlaw Star when he made firefly despite refuting this.
  • June 25, 2011
    Ardiente
    Why "accused"? Do people think ideas are created in some sort of primordial void or what?
  • June 26, 2011
    Ardiente
    bump
  • June 26, 2011
    Ardiente
    • Many of the anime movies that make it big in the West lack the usual tropes found in animanga-ish works, and feel more like normal (i.e. Hollywood-style) films that just happen to be animated. Akira, Ghost In The Shell, mostly anything by Studio Ghibli.

    ... Personal comment: I still can't get over the fact that the Rebuild Of Evangelion movies went by practically unnoticed by the general public ;_;
  • June 26, 2011
    bluepenguin
    I wouldn't say Studio Ghibli's works feel especially Western. They're not stereotypically anime, true, but even the ones based on Western works are certainly informed by different attitudes towards plot and pacing than the movies we make.
  • June 26, 2011
    Ardiente
    That's a very interesting opinion. Care to elaborate?

    Also, anyone else feel like Christopher Nolan films have an animesque vibe to them? Especially Inception, if felt extremely predictable for some reason, and, well, after Paprika it really felt like unexploited potential.Dreams are more fun than that.
  • June 27, 2011
    Ardiente
    bump
  • June 27, 2011
    Cidolfas
    This sounds both vague and extremely subjective. There's more crossover between anime/Japanese works and Western works than you think - remember, anime started by copying Western works to begin with.

    Who says Japan has the rights to, say, pretty young protagonists, or overly stylized rock-music-video-like scenes?
  • June 27, 2011
    Ardiente
    They don't, but those tropes have come to be very strongly associated with their popular media. No-one has the rights to a signature style, but when you see a recent work where the protagonist is also the narrator, narrates in grim, short sentences, likes to repeat themselves, the story involves whores, and there is a broken rib somewhere, you're pretty damns sure you're either reading Frank Miller, or a very good copycat who couldn't possibly be sued for that (unless he pulls a Nick Simmons).

    Usually the distinction is not vague at all unless we are dealing with earlier Unbuilt Trope cases (for reference, have a look at the Anime and Manga section of that page). Obviously you'd have to wait until franchises like Final Fantasy VII, Dragon Ball, later Jojo, and other Trope Codifiers (same) to say Japanese popular fiction looked like something as a whole in order to be able to say about something foreign that it looked like Japanese popular fiction.
  • June 27, 2011
    Raso
    The whole concept of an American Ninja is this.

    Star Wars was inspired by Akira Kurosawa's works.
  • June 27, 2011
    Ardiente
    ^You mean Mc Ninja.

    Seriously? But but but... Kurosawa is all crazy surrealism and Body Horror and Alien Geometries and grimdark and hard sci-fi... and Star Wars is... well, it's the The Heros Journey made into a film, and if you got any softer you'd fall off the scale...
  • July 28, 2011
    Discar
    Bump.
  • August 23, 2011
    Vyctorian
    Bump.
  • November 18, 2011
    lee4hmz
    This trope sounds like it'd be a good idea, but I'd also limit it to cases where Word Of God has come out and said there was a reference to anime, manga, or Eastern Animation in general. Of course, in that case, it'd be easy enough to just merge it all into Shout Out.

    As for animation, well, I'm wondering if we should even bother, since it seems like the whole page is either "hey, I saw them use a Motion Blur in a certain way, it fits!" or "You haters need to quit, since all those 1980s shows you pine for so much were all animated in Japan neener-neener-neener".
  • June 12, 2014
    Westrim
    bump
  • June 12, 2014
    ShanghaiSlave
    This sounds like YMMV observations to me.

    Firefly inspired by japanese media? got any Word Of God confirmation on that?
  • June 12, 2014
    KarjamP
    This's an old YKTTW spawned when someone spotted a "problem" with the trope "Animesque".

    In other words, this is a proposal for a split of Animesque even though this's supposed to be the job for the Trope Repair Shop.

    In fact, according to one of the comments, here, someone made a thread for him. Obviously, it's closed, by now.

    Here's the thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1308428739066140100

    It appears that the reason why the thread closed is because everyone's too lazy to fix the problem with Animesque.

    Hmm, I think a new Repair Shop thread may need to be in order, if we were to continue with this split attempt, due to the fact that times on TV Tropes have changed from 2 years ago. (Examples include different rules and the way repair discussions are held nowadays).
  • June 12, 2014
    TheHandle
    Bump.
  • June 12, 2014
    KarjamP
    Why bump this?

    As I said, if we were to continue this, we should at least start a new Trope Repair Shop thread to be on the safe side, due to the fact that things may have ran differently, back then.
  • June 12, 2014
    KarjamP
    Okay, now that I've read the first couple of pages of that repair shop thread, I come to realise that the thread's actually debating about what to do with the trope, only to reach nowhere when it literally closed.

    This trope was also proposed as a potential split of Animesque.

    To still be on the safe, though, I'm creating a new thread. Please don't bump this until it's determined that this YKTTW is needed.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=kw3f7ok0m3e4txyt5pkv0i44