Line #115 WMG/Redwall


1	[[WMG: Martin The Warrior is an animal reincarnation of the [[WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender Avatar]].]]
2	As well as all of the creatures he chose to succeed him. After he died, his spirit still roams Redwall, giving visions to the good guys and scaring the crap out of the bad guys.
3
4	The sword is his relic. In one case, one of his successors magically learn his skills by touching his sword.
5
6	So as well as Martin the Warrior, we have:
7
8	* Matthias (From ''Redwall'')
9	* Mattimeo (From ''Mattimeo'') Does not count as a reincarnation, because he has had little, if any communication with Martin's spirit.
10	** Plus he was alive at the same time as Matthias, who was ''definitely'' a reincarnation of Martin. This also eliminates Martin II, Matthias' grandson.
11	* Dandin (From ''Mariel of Redwall'')
12	* Samkim (From ''Salamandastron'')
13	* Dannflor (From ''Marlfox'')
14	* Deyna (From ''The Taggerung'')
15	* Triss (From ''Triss'')
16	* Bragoon, Sarobando, or Horty (From ''Loamhedge'')
17	** Judging by the rest of the examples, none of these three qualify. Some of the main qualifications for being Martin (in all the books that I remember) include successfully wielding Martin's sword, which Bragoon does but Horty does not (he wounded his footpaw by stabbing himself with the sword while he was showing off); getting a vision from Martin, which none of the three get, though Saro jokes about Martin warning her and Bragoon to leave years ago; and surviving till the end of the book, [[spoiler: which Horty does but Bragoon and Saro do not]].
18	* Tam (From ''Rakkety Tam'')
19	* Bowlaynee (From ''Doomwyte''.)
20	** What about Arven (From "The Long Patrol".)?
21
22	[[WMG: Martin's Sword is not magical]]
23	There's no magic in the sword, as speculated by many of the characters. Martin simply uses it to speak to others because he had a strong connection to it in life. (See: ''Martin the Warrior'' and ''Mossflower'' where the plot boils down to "Vermin steals Martin's sword; Martin kills everything in a ten mile radius with his bare paws and retrieves it.") The sword doesn't actually contain his spirit or imbue the wielder with Martin's power or anything like that; he just has a much easier time speaking from the spirit realm to those who are holding his sword.
24	* It's just (in [=DnD=] terms) a masterwork adamantine greatsword. Its only special quality appears to be cutting through steel, and meteors are said to be a common source of adamantine.
25	* This theory was basically proven in ''The Rogue Crew'' with Uggo Wiltud. Despite being granted the sword, he doesn't gain any special powers, he doesn't become more confident or badass, and he barely even knows how to wield the damn thing properly. He only kills one vermin (by accident) the entire time he's holding it, and shortly afterwards, ''he drops it''. The last novel blatantly stated that it's not the sword that matters, but the beast wielding it.
26
27	[[WMG: Matthias is distantly related to Martin the Warrior]]
28	Blood ties are extremely important in the Redwall 'verse. Martin is able to speak to Matthias through visions even when Matthias isn't holding the sword because they are distantly related. This explains why Martin's contact with other wielders of his sword (besides Mattimeo and Martin II, who are both descendants of Matthias) is much less direct.
29	* This raises the question of ''how'' they're related. Martin was the last living member of his family and it's been stated that he had no children.
30	** Eh. He settles down and hangs up his sword at the end of ''TheLegendOfLuke''. Maybe he fooled around with somebody on the side?
31	** Maybe they're descendents of Gonff? The last one known to exist was Dandin; maybe he and Mariel had kids and one of their descendents came back to the Abbey.
32	** John Churchmouse grew up in St. Ninian's, where Gonff moved to after Redwall was built. That could make Tim and Tess, and thus Mattimeo and Martin II, descendants of Gonff.
33	** On the other hand, it's a canonical fact that Matthias is actually Martin himself, reincarnated in order to save the Abbey from it's first Vermin Horde in generations. Martin/Matthias has no conscious memory of his past life, but there are examples of moments where his past self wakes up long enough to encourage him to get back up and fight. Presumably, his original identity as Martin reasserted itself after Matthias died of old age.
34	*** Actually it's not that simple, Matthias is a reincarnation, yet the two exist as separate entities. Since Martin's ghost was active while Matthias was still alive, unless he's a split personality that seeps into other's dreams O_o, and to make it clearer, in Russano's dream showing all the ghosts of the Redwall warriors, Martin and Matthias were there as separate characters.
35
36	[[WMG: Martin's sword is a [[Franchise/AssassinsCreed Piece of Eden]].]]
37	Think about it: Everyone who holds the sword becomes a great leader, unless they stole it, in which case they promptly die. Also, everyone who wields the sword instantly becomes an expert in its use.
38
39	We know from the second ''VideoGame/{{Assassins Creed\|II}}'' game that one of the pieces is sword-shaped. Somehow, before his death, Martin managed to unlock the secrets of the sword, and give it simple instructions. Now it protects the abbey, using induced visions to guide prospective owners and torment anyone who threatens the people Martin swore to protect. It also gives free sword training brain downloads on contact.
40
41	[[WMG: If Matthias is a reincarnation of Martin, then Cornflower is a reincarnation of Rose.]]
42	Hey, it's only fair.
43	* The names even match. Good one!
44	** WordOfGod says this is true.
45
46	[[WMG: There were at one point humans in Mossflower, but they either died out or emigrated to somewhere very far away.]]
47	Even taking into account that most of ''Redwall'''s setup, including the horse and haycart, has been retconned, the "feral cats" in ''High Rhulain'' openly say their ancestors were "enslaved" by "creatures more powerful than themselves", and the Coin in ''The Sable Quean'' had to come from somewhere, Mossflower's animals don't seem to bother with currency, and they claim the "strange markings" on the Coin were worn off to the point of unreadability, so it's not impossible it was made by humans.
48
49	[[WMG: The Gawtrybe are gray squirrels, not red squirrels]]
50	This needs a little bit of explanation. All of the animals in the ''Redwall'' series are ones native to or otherwise found in Britain, and therefore the squirrels are generally assumed to be European red squirrels. This is probably true in most cases, with one potential exception. The Gawtrybe are decidedly unlike any other squirrels in the series; they are violent [[TheBerserker berserkers]] instead of being AlwaysLawfulGood like other squirrels. It's possible, then, that the Gawtrybe are ''gray'' squirrels, a species that has been introduced to Britain and become an invasive pest there. Their portrayal as villains, in contrast to the "good" red squirrels, might be a commentary on how in real life, introduced gray squirrels are coming into conflict with native red squirrels in Britain.
51
52	[[WMG: Redwall is an EldritchLocation that makes vermin AlwaysChaoticEvil while Woodlanders are stuck as AlwaysLawfulGood.]]
53	It warps nature of the world and is under a guise of Martin the Warrior or his sword or both.
54
55	[[WMG: Redwall takes place on Earth thousands of years into the future]]
56	A result of human/animal gene splicing/intelligence enhancement, an [[AfterTheEnd apocalypse that wiped out the human race]], and evolution
57	* Redwall takes place in the same universe as ''Webcomic/{{Jack\|DavidHopkins}}''?
58	** Well, ''Jack'' does feature Artie working at Saint Ninian's Hospital and reading ''Redwall'' to the kids ("[[TearJerker I can't read dis book ...]]") and Farrago claims to have been a female soldier "before the days of guns and artillery". [[NightmareFuel Since reincarnations in the Jackverse seem to share similar names and appearances with their originals, one kind of hopes she's not actually a reincarnation of Ferahgo.]]
59
60	[[WMG: ALL the Swordbearers, not just Matthias, are the reincarnation of Martin.]]
61	It would explain the InstantExpert routine; they retain the knowledge of weaponry from all of his/their previous lives. Also, it could explain why there's only ever been one female Swordbearer (and this troper is now tempted to write a fic exploring Triss's potential resulting gender identity issues).
62
63	[[WMG: Vermin are AlwaysChaoticEvil because of their reproductive biology.]]
64	There is evidence in the books that vermin are psychologically and biologically very slightly closer to their RealLife animalian counterparts than the woodlanders. Thus, I posit that their reproductive systems are also closer, meaning the females tend to produce large litters, unlike the woodlanders who usually seem to have only one or two at a time (barring a few throwbacks, which would explain Rosie and Tarquin producing twelve kids in one year, or Log-a-Log Furmo's eight). Since they require more meat in their diets than the herbivorous/pescetarian woodlanders, the laws of trophic energy transfer conspire with their higher birth rate to mean that the country could never support them if they all survived to breed. Thus, they become highly aggressive and competitive, and usually keep their population growth down by battling amongst themselves. Every so often they build up to levels high enough to form a horde, which then gets wiped out by the woodlanders, leaving only those whose genes have something to offer in the way of skill or luck and ensuring that the next generation get the good genetic material. Veil was the only vermin infant whose birth was actually mentioned and he was an only child, but it's not unusual for small or frail mother animals, particularly first-time mothers, to produce one big healthy cub rather than a litter which are likely to be sickly and difficult to care for.
65
66	[[WMG: Sunflash the Mace started Urgan Nagru down his path.]]
67	Early in 'Outcast of Redwall', Sunflash scared a family of foxes away from two families of hedgehogs and moles. In return for their lives, he sent them north. In 'The Bellmaker', Urgan Nagru's backstory says that he came from the north. Though he should have reached Mossflower Wood before Southsward, he remembered his family's deal with Sunflash, and skipped over it in an example of honor among thieves, or just hoping that by going further south, Sunflash would never find him.
68
69
70	[[WMG: Hares eat as much as they do because ...]]
71	... they're trying to absorb enough nutrients that they don't have to resort to [[{{Squick}} coprophagy]] as real hares and rabbits do. Or they're trying to get rid of the taste when they do have to do that.
72
73	[[WMG: The Redwallers believe that eating cures depression.]]
74	It would explain why many of them are described as being chubby, fat, or flat-out obese. It would also explain why Redwallers have a knack for hosting feasts shortly after someone's death [[AngstWhatAngst and seemingly mentioning the dead character's name only a few times later in each novel]]. And given the [[AnyoneCanDie high death rate in Mossflower]], [[FridgeBrilliance it makes sense once you think about it]].
75	* Adding to this, take into account that Brian Jacques grew up during the period of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom war-related rationing in the UK]]; food was in very short supply when he was a kid, particularly sweets and fruit (and what are the Redwallers' favourite foods?) A reliable, healthy, and tasty food supply probably really was very important to him, and thus to the characters he created.
76	** Either that or, since all the food is fruit- and vegetable-based, it was a conspiracy to get vitamins into his kid readers.
77
78	[[WMG: Martin is/was an TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}.]]
79	This sort of ties in with the idea that each of his successors are his reincarnations - perhaps his sword contains his Exaltation, and that's why they seem to attain mastery so quickly. I think he's either a Dawn or a Zenith, based on his abilities.
80
81	[[WMG:Thousands of generations before, a HatePlague broke out.]]
82	It affected every species, and affected individuals went berserk. Mercifully, they adapted ere long. They adapted in different ways though. Cats, rats and most mustelids all have it but it does not affect them as much; it just makes them more easily angered. Their cultures did grow more ruthless, though. Lagomorphs, badgers, and most rodents don't normally get it, but those who do only have it flare up in extreme fight-or-flight--it's called the Bloodwrath.
83
84	[[WMG:Redwall takes place in the far flung future of the Rats of NIMH.]]
85	Humans have died out and human level smarts have somehow passed to most animals.
86	* Though that would only make sense, if the rats were the only ones that grew in intelligence, I don't remember NIMH ever experimenting on Foxes, Moles, Squirrels etc... well, maybe they did?
87
88	[[WMG: Or it's the corresponding "medieval era" to ''Literature/TheHermuxTantamoqAdventures''.]]
89	That series is full of much of the same species—various rodents, moles, some lesser carnivores like sables and otters but not so much of the greater ones like cats/dogs/bears—and it's set more or less in a human-less equivalent of the mid-to-late 20th century in human civilisation, what with cars, airplanes, boats and trains, a film industry, telephones and radios (but apparently no televisions, let alone computers, though there are computerised equipment)—all of which would've been invented long after the obviously medieval-equivalent of ''Redwall''-era technology and societies, and would thus place the series in the far future of the ''Redwall''-verse. Its settings of Pinchester (the in-universe {{Expy}} of New York City) and the desert land west of it are across an ocean from Mossflower and environs, just like North America's across the pond from Britain.
90
91	[[WMG: Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter and Redwall all take place in the same canon.]]
92
93
94	In the far far past, Dragons, hobbits, dwarves, elves... etc... lived on the Earth, then called Middle-Earth. But the world evolved. The world modernized into a parallel world to ours, where the fantasy creatures still existed but were hidden from the non-magical beings, jump about 2000 years later, a cataclysm caused all the humans and fantasy creatures but one to die out, aside from that one person, all that was left were the animals. The very last human left was the wizard Radagast the Brown who used the most powerful magic to stay young for millenniums. He cast one last spell on the world's woodland creatures to start a new way of life before he passed on.
95	* OR Radagast turned humans and fantasy creatures into animals as an attempt to save them. Which was successful.
96
97	[[WMG: Silvamord was infertile.]]
98	She seems to resent Muta and Truffen in particular over Truffen's parents, and it's one of many possible reasons for her constant conflict with Nagru.
99	* And/or their conflict was deepened by the fact that female foxes are only receptive to mating for three days out of the year, so the tension for a bout of SlapSlapKiss has a LOT of time to build up...
100
101	[[WMG: Gabool was high as a kite throughout the entire book.]]
102	Come on, insomnia, paranoia, [[CargoShip flirting with an inanimate object]]?
103	* Or just insane. Which the book assured a million times over that he was.
104
105	[[WMG: Martin is the [[Webcomic/{{Homestuck}} Lord of Hope]].]]
106
107	[[WMG: Much of the AccidentalInnuendo was not accidental.]]
108	The man was a sailor, he couldn't be that naive.
109
110	[[WMG: Something in the soil at Redwall makes the food grown there highly addictive.]]
111
112	[[WMG: The ''WesternAnimation/PeaceOnEarth'' and/or ''WesternAnimation/GoodWillToMen'' cartoons are prequels to Redwall.]]
113	To those who have seen neither, they're both anti-war cartoons where humanity drives itself to extinction and all that are left are animals, smaller ones like mice and rabbits, that talk about men, how they saw them, and what happened to them through narration. Redwall happens to be a long time after the events of the cartoons (the cartoons are less then one generation away from the event) and the stories and myths of men are long gone.
114
115	[[WMG: Not all of Madd's family was killed.]]
116	Madd suffered a head injury and woke up alone in the carnage. Fwirl's family was also killed and she mentions that her mother's "body" had a head injury and wouldn't wake. Coincidence?
117
118	[[WMG: Veil suffered from Reactive Attachment Disorder.]]
119	RAD is a rare condition caused by lack of appropriate emotional interaction with caregivers in infancy, resulting in a lack of empathy which may or may not turn into violent behaviour, as shown in the documentary ''Child of Rage''. Veil's mother died at birth and he was ignored by his father and given to a nurse who, while she saved his life, didn't seem to pay much attention to him otherwise. The Redwallers refused to bond with him out of possibly understandable fear, given that he is a predator and they are prey, and never expected him to behave well; Bryony did bond with him, but never tried to stop his misbehaviour, and so it got worse.
120
121	[[WMG: Continuing on what the theory about humans said, the reason we don't see any is because...]]
122	The animals killed them. They also burnt down manmade structures, which is why we don't see any after the 1st book.
123
124	[[WMG: Mellus was suicidal.]]
125	She always came across as one of the most bitter good characters, and it's stated that after Dandin and Mariel left she fell into a depression. Then there's the fact that she could have simply scared Slipp away from "Mousebabe" due to the fact that she's so intimidating and well, scary.
126
127	[[WMG: Ungatt Trunn is Tsarmina's biological father]]
128	The two are very similar in terms of appearance, ability, personality, and other things. Part of why Tsarmina is TheUnfavourite is because Verdauga suspects she's not actually his daughter.
129
130	[[WMG: Gulo suffered from a prion disease.]]
131	Prion diseases cause brain degeneration, which would explain his descent into madness, and can be transmitted via cannibalism. That's what you get for eating whatever random animal you find.
132
133	[[WMG: Matthias is a WMG/TimeLord]]
134	He regenerated from Martin the Warrior. Redwall Abbey is his [=TARDIS=], and the Sword of Martin is his Sonic Screwdriver.
135
136	[[WMG: The Hares are in a religion separate from that of the Redwallers]]
137	And their God is [[Literature/WatershipDown Frith]]!
138
139	[[WMG:After successfully escaping the fortress Kotir, Ashleg settled down as a farmer just like Gingivere.]]
140	Imagine if he moved in next to Gingivere and his wife. They could finally be friends, free from Tsarmina's wrath.
141
142	[[WMG: The series takes place in the same universe as ''Franchise/KungFuPanda'']]
143	Oogway might even have based some of the more philosophical aspects of Kung Fu on Martin's ideals, either learned from passing through Redwall on his travels around the world, or from the mouse himself; [[WiseOldTurtle Oogway]] is certainly old enough to have met him!
144	* Incidentally, ''WesternAnimation/KungFuPandaTheDragonKnight'' has Po traveling to medieval England. It doesn't look much like Mossflower, but that could easily be explained if ''Redwall'' took place at a much earlier time (perhaps the equivalent of pre-William the Conqueror Britain).
145	** Rampaging hordes attacking monasteries ''does'' look an awful lot like the Viking/King Arthur era.

Context WMG / Redwall