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* CommonKnowledge: Due to the current connotations that the term "Machiavellian" tends to use, many people may think that the book advises being a cruel and bloodthirsty ruler who rules using fear and repression, in fact Machievalo mentions that doing that is the only thing he achieves. is to create a weak reign easy to overthrow, and recommends being more pragmatic.

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* CommonKnowledge: Due to the current connotations that the term "Machiavellian" tends to use, many people may think that the book advises being a cruel and bloodthirsty ruler who rules using fear and repression, in fact Machievalo mentions that doing that is the only thing he achieves. a ruler achieves is to create a weak reign easy to overthrow, and recommends being more pragmatic.
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* CommonKnowledge: Due to the current connotations that the term "Machiavellian" tends to use, many people may think that the book advises being a cruel and bloodthirsty ruler who rules using fear and repression, in fact Machievalo mentions that doing that is the only thing he achieves. is to create a weak reign easy to overthrow, and recommends being more pragmatic.
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migrating YMMV to appropriate page



!! The 2021 animated series:
* AudienceAlienatingPremise:
* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The jokes about Prince Philip's poor health and old age become a lot unfunnier after the Duke died in April 2021 from natural causes at the age of 99. In fact, this got the show delayed.
* TaintedByThePreview:
* TheWoobie: Camilla Parker Bowles is often blasted by Elizabeth for virtually no reason.

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!! Machiavelli's Work:


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!! The 2021 animated series:
* AudienceAlienatingPremise:
* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The jokes about Prince Philip's poor health and old age become a lot unfunnier after the Duke died in April 2021 from natural causes at the age of 99. In fact, this got the show delayed.
* TaintedByThePreview:
* TheWoobie: Camilla Parker Bowles is often blasted by Elizabeth for virtually no reason.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FairForItsDay: In Machiavelli's own opinion, anything else would be hopelessly idealistic.

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* FairForItsDay: In Machiavelli's own opinion, anything else would be hopelessly idealistic. Now, his advice comes off as [[MachiavelliWasWrong hopelessly cynical]].
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* StrawmanHasAPoint: If you take the position that Machiavelli didn't actually believe what he was saying in this work, then the advice probably qualifies, since said advice is ''actually pretty solid and reasonable''.
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** It must be taken into consideration that Italy at the time was fragmented in many small kingdoms and city-states that sometimes warred with each other or were under the domination of foreign, unified powers like France. Machiavelli advocated for a somewhat harsh kind of rule because it was necessary for stability and eventually progression. He also advocates for a "harsh but fair" kind of ruler who devotes himself to the state first and does not tolerate corruption or grovelling. Seeing how kings and emperors at the time would waste fortunes and lives on frivolities or petty rivalries, his worldview was downright revolutionary.
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* FairForItsDay: With the state of Italy (and most of the rest of [[strike:Europe]] the world for that matter) anything else would be hopelessly idealistic.

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* FairForItsDay: With the state of Italy (and most of the rest of [[strike:Europe]] the world for that matter) In Machiavelli's own opinion, anything else would be hopelessly idealistic.
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** While the above theory has become popular, given the details elaborated on inside of it, there is another that Machiavelli genuinely believed this is how one should approach a principality in it's most efficient way possible. While he was a firm believer that republics were better, he was also a believer that principalities could turn into republics & wasn't as anti-principality as some would lead people to believe.

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** While the above theory has become popular, given the details elaborated on inside of it, there is another that Machiavelli genuinely believed this is how one should approach a principality in it's the most efficient way possible. While he was a firm believer that republics were better, he was also a believer that principalities could turn into republics & wasn't as anti-principality as some would lead people to believe.

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per clean up


* MagnificentBastard: What you should become if you take this book as your guide.
** So much so that the adjective "Machiavellian" is used to describe the highest quality of Magnificent Bastardry.

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* MagnificentBastard: What you should become if you take this book as your guide.
** So much so that the adjective "Machiavellian" is used to describe the highest quality of Magnificent Bastardry.
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** There's also the theory that The Prince was written as a sort of jab at Cesare Borgia, the son of Pope Alexander VI, who had ambitions to unite all Italy and is often described as acting similar to Machiavelli's "ideal" prince. Machiavelli knew Cesare Borgia quite well, and was an adviser of Borgia's for a time, before eventually becoming disillusioned with the man and his plans.

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[{{Creator/JeanJacquesRousseau}} Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans... The court of Rome[[labelnote:note]]This refers to the Roman Curia, the court or cabinet which aids the Pope in administrative matters[[/labelnote]] has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[{{Creator/JeanJacquesRousseau}} Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans... The court of Rome[[labelnote:note]]This refers to the Roman Curia, the court or cabinet which aids the Pope in administrative matters[[/labelnote]] has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."


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** One other theory suggests that Machiavelli knew what the Renaissance would lead to a certain consciousness arising from the populace, and that what he had written in The Prince would be seen as disgusting by much of the populace, turning them against their political leaders. From there, it's suggested he knew they would topple their leaders, because they would outright hate them, making their own forms of liberal democracy, which is what he would have always wanted. Thus by writing about Machiavellian methods, he himself had a Machiavellian plot to bring republics to the general populace, by plotting against those who themselves would plot.
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** There are also those who push forward the view that, at root, Machiavelli was a realist -- he might have regarded a republic as the ideal form of government, but at the same time he desired a strong, unified Italy first, and believed that a republic would be unable to provide the focus on such a long-term goal that a state under a single prince could. Once Italy was united and relatively free from manipulation by outside powers to keep it divided, ''then'' the Italians could work out the transition from principality to republic.

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** There are also those who push forward the view that, at root, Machiavelli was a realist -- he might have regarded a republic as the ideal form of government, but at the same time he desired a strong, unified Italy first, and believed that a republic would be unable to provide the focus on such a long-term goal that a state under a single prince could. Once Italy was united and relatively free from manipulation by the outside powers to keep that had kept it divided, ''then'' the Italians could work out the transition from principality to republic.
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None

Added DiffLines:

** There are also those who push forward the view that, at root, Machiavelli was a realist -- he might have regarded a republic as the ideal form of government, but at the same time he desired a strong, unified Italy first, and believed that a republic would be unable to provide the focus on such a long-term goal that a state under a single prince could. Once Italy was united and relatively free from manipulation by outside powers to keep it divided, ''then'' the Italians could work out the transition from principality to republic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** While the above theory has become popular, given the details elaborated on inside of it, there is another that Machiavelli genuinely believed this is how one should approach a principality in it's most efficient way possible. While he was a firm believer that republics were better, he was also a believer that principalities could turn into republics & wasn't as anti-principality as some would lead people to believe.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[{{Creator/JeanJacquesRousseau}} Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[{{Creator/JeanJacquesRousseau}} Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....republicans... The court of Rome Rome[[labelnote:note]]This refers to the Roman Curia, the court or cabinet which aids the Pope in administrative matters[[/labelnote]] has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[JeanJacquesRousseau Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[JeanJacquesRousseau [[{{Creator/JeanJacquesRousseau}} Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight [[JeanJacquesRousseau Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
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* LawfulEvil or LawfulNeutral
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* LawfulEvil or LawfulNeutral
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Apologies for the numerous re-edits. Condensed conversation, trimmed natter.


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince ''The Prince'' is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's canon that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau's]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's canon that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau's]] Rousseau]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; The Prince is the only work of Machiavelli's canon that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau's]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Machiavelli was actually a satirist]]. This is not a crackpot theory held solely by humorists; The Prince ''The Prince'' is the only work of Machiavelli's canon that overtly argues for despotism, in contrast with his others, which deal with the administration of republics. Several scholars and [[RousseauWasRight Rousseau's]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: There are those -- mostly [[PrincipiaDiscordia Discordians]] and the fine folks at ''[[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Cracked]]'' -- who claim that Machiavelli was actually a satirist.
** This is not a crack-pot theory held solely by humorists. The fact that ''the Prince'' is a very peculiar work in its own right, and the only one in Machiavelli's canon that appears (at face value) to be in favor of despotism, says quite a lot. Several professional historians agree, including Ian Johnson and Mary Deitz.
** Also, ''The Prince'' was published posthumously against Machiavelli's wishes--it was originally just sent to a couple of his pro-republic friends, who presumably had a a bit of a laugh.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: There are those -- mostly [[PrincipiaDiscordia Discordians]] and the fine folks at ''[[http://www.One theory holds that [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html Cracked]]'' -- who claim that Machiavelli was actually a satirist.
**
satirist]]. This is not a crack-pot crackpot theory held solely by humorists. humorists; The fact that ''the Prince'' Prince is a very peculiar work in its own right, and the only one in work of Machiavelli's canon that appears (at face value) to be in favor of overtly argues for despotism, says quite a lot. in contrast with his others, which deal with republics. Several professional historians agree, including Ian Johnson scholars and Mary Deitz.
** Also, ''The Prince'' was published posthumously against Machiavelli's wishes--it was originally just sent to a couple
[[RousseauWasRight Rousseau's]] agree; Rousseau writes, "Machiavelli's ThePrince is the book of republicans....The court of Rome has sternly prohibited his pro-republic friends, who presumably had a a bit of a laugh.book. I can well believe it; it is the court he most clearly depicts."
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Added item marked as YMMV

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* FairForItsDay: With the state of Italy (and most of the rest of [[strike:Europe]] the world for that matter) anything else would be hopelessly idealistic.
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YMMV cannot have examples, only its subtropes can.


* YourMilageMayVary: Just look at the back and forth on the previous entries. Is it a work condoning utter cruelty and despotism, a pragmatic guide to ruling a country in the face of anarchy, or a satire of both? Whichever you choose, someone will disagree with you.

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