History YMMV / TheKingkillerChronicle

4th Aug '16 7:53:09 PM Anddrix
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* BaseBreaker: Denna comes off as TheScrappy to many, who often find her annoying and unsympathetic for what they perceive as knowingly toying with Kvothe to spend her time when she is not luring rich guys to make a living. Conversely, many people like her for being a rare three-dimensional LoveInterest who provides both conflict and respite (alternatively) to the story, thanks to how much she matters to Kvothe.

to:

* BaseBreaker: BaseBreakingCharacter: Denna comes off as TheScrappy to many, who often find her annoying and unsympathetic for what they perceive as knowingly toying with Kvothe to spend her time when she is not luring rich guys to make a living. Conversely, many people like her for being a rare three-dimensional LoveInterest who provides both conflict and respite (alternatively) to the story, thanks to how much she matters to Kvothe.
11th Jun '16 9:59:33 AM luord
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* BaseBreaker: Denna comes off as TheScrappy to many, who often find her annoying and unsympathetic for what they perceive as knowingly toying with Kvothe to spend her time when she is not luring rich guys to make a living. Conversely, many people like her for being a rare three-dimensional LoveInterest who provides both conflict and respite (alternatively) to the story, thanks to how much she matters to Kvothe.



* TheScrappy: Denna comes off as this to many, who often find her annoying and unsympathetic for what they perceive as knowingly toying with Kvothe to spend her time when she is not luring rich guys to make a living.
9th Jan '16 8:27:53 PM phylos
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** Similarly, the time spent in Ademre. It's either a very interesting subplot that enriches the story by showing a different culture of ProudWarriorRaceGuys, with an interesting philosophy in the Lethani. Or they are a [[MarySuetopia country]] of [[CantArgueWithElves pretentious]], [[IRejectYourReality anti-intellectual]], [[WomenAreWiser sexist]], [[ArrogantKungfuGuy Arrogant kung-fu guys]] who belittle everyone else for their perceived shortcomings while [[{{Hypocrite}} ignoring their own backward and strange taboos]], not to mention that the entire time there doesn't advance the MythArc barring a short conversation at the end.

to:

** Similarly, the time spent in Ademre. It's either a very interesting subplot that enriches the story by showing a different culture of ProudWarriorRaceGuys, with an interesting philosophy in the Lethani. Or they are a [[MarySuetopia country]] of [[CantArgueWithElves pretentious]], [[IRejectYourReality anti-intellectual]], [[WomenAreWiser sexist]], [[ArrogantKungfuGuy Arrogant arrogant kung-fu guys]] who belittle everyone else for their perceived shortcomings while [[{{Hypocrite}} ignoring their own backward and strange taboos]], not to mention that the entire time there doesn't advance the MythArc barring a short conversation at the end.
9th Jan '16 8:27:03 PM phylos
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** Similarly, the time spent in Ademre. It's either a very interesting subplot that enriches the story by showing a different culture of ProudWarriorRaceGuys, with an interesting philosophy in the Lethani. Or they are a country of [[CantArgueWithElves arrogant]], [[IRejectYourReality anti-intellectual]], [[WomenAreWiser sexist]], [[ArrogantKungfuGuy Arrogant kung-fu guys]] who belittle everyone else for their perceived shortcomings while [[{{Hypocrite}} ignoring their own backward and strange taboos]], not to mention that the entire time there doesn't advance the MythArc barring a short conversation at the end.

to:

** Similarly, the time spent in Ademre. It's either a very interesting subplot that enriches the story by showing a different culture of ProudWarriorRaceGuys, with an interesting philosophy in the Lethani. Or they are a country [[MarySuetopia country]] of [[CantArgueWithElves arrogant]], pretentious]], [[IRejectYourReality anti-intellectual]], [[WomenAreWiser sexist]], [[ArrogantKungfuGuy Arrogant kung-fu guys]] who belittle everyone else for their perceived shortcomings while [[{{Hypocrite}} ignoring their own backward and strange taboos]], not to mention that the entire time there doesn't advance the MythArc barring a short conversation at the end.
9th Jan '16 8:13:06 PM phylos
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** Similarly, the time spent in Ademre. It's either a very interesting subplot that enriches the story by showing a different culture of ProudWarriorRaceGuys, with an interesting philosophy in the Lethani. Or they are a country of [[CantArgueWithElves arrogant]], [[IRejectYourReality anti-intellectual]], [[WomenAreWiser sexist]], [[ArrogantKungfuGuy Arrogant kung-fu guys]] who belittle everyone else for their perceived shortcomings while [[{{Hypocrite}} ignoring their own backward and strange taboos]], not to mention that the entire time there doesn't advance the MythArc barring a short conversation at the end.



** The Adem, an entire society of warrior-philosophers. They're ruled by their elite mercenary schools, whose martial arts secrets are several orders of magnitude greater than any other society's. Even their lowliest, stupidest members look like superheroes compared to other people. Their leaders are selected purely on merit. They have absolutely no sexual inhibitions, yet also have absolutely no venereal disease. Their language is far more subtle and elegant than any other. They all have iron-clad composure. Their food is delicious. Their medicinal skill rivals the greatest academic institutions. They are technologically advanced. They live in great wealth and comfort, but without needless frills or vanity. They seem to lack crime, corruption and poverty. They do have a number of oddities, but they are all well defended: While their culture believes that women are basically better than men, they are a meritocracy, so their culture is basically ''evidence'' of this conclusion. They don't believe that men contribute to pregnancy, but even Kvothe cannot provide evidence to the contrary that they cannot refute with sound logic. They disapprove of music played in public, but only because they cherish it so much.

to:

** The Adem, an entire society of warrior-philosophers. They're ruled by their elite mercenary schools, whose martial arts secrets are several orders of magnitude greater than any other society's. Even their lowliest, stupidest members look like superheroes compared to other people. Their leaders are selected purely on merit. They have absolutely no sexual inhibitions, yet also have absolutely no venereal disease. Their language is far more subtle and elegant than any other. They all have iron-clad composure. Their food is delicious. Their medicinal skill rivals the greatest academic institutions. They are technologically advanced. They live in great wealth and comfort, but without needless frills or vanity. They seem to lack crime, corruption and poverty. They do have a number of oddities, but they are all well defended: While their culture believes that women are basically better than men, they are a meritocracy, so their culture is basically ''evidence'' of this conclusion. They don't believe that men contribute to pregnancy, but even Kvothe cannot provide evidence to the contrary that they cannot refute with sound logic. They disapprove of music played in public, but only because they cherish it so much.
14th Dec '15 1:18:39 PM FF32
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* AuthorOnBoard: Occurs twice in ''The Wise Man's Fear''.
** First when Kvothe glosses over a [[OffScreenMomentOfAwesome high-stakes, high-action]] [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot part of the plot]] and then goes into an angry rant about how this is ''his'' story and Chronicler isn't entitled to hear it any other way than the way ''he'' wants to tell it. It's almost impossible to not see that as Patrick Rothfuss' own pre-emptive attack on any readers who would be disappointed by this decision, and indeed, fans of the series have been known to use Kvothe's claim of "granting you a gift, not giving you your due" in response to criticism towards the series.
** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to [[UsefulNotes/VictimBlaming victim-blame]] them, and Kvothe ''breaks his arm'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: For some, the [[spoiler:Fake Edema Ruh]] arc late in the second book had shades of this. Kvothe runs into another troupe of Edema Ruh, the first he's encountered since his childhood. He spends the evening in their company, but a feeling of gradual unease begins to creep up on him as the night goes on, cemented by the appearance of two teenage girls the troupe had abducted and made into sex slaves. Kvothe is reasonably disturbed and appalled by this, and retires in order to plot what to do about it. [[spoiler:Faced with proof that corruption and atrocity are present in even the apparently flawless Edema Ruh, you'd think this would be a huge blow to Kvothe's romanticized bias toward his people; but of course, it turns out they were bandits merely impersonating the Ruh, which Kvothe had quickly twigged right from the start due to the various minor holes in their Ruh knowledge.]] While still given a [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge very satisfying conclusion]], TheReveal removed some of the emotional depth the text was [[RedHerring seemingly]] building up to and reinforced the [[MarySueTopia above stereotype]].

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: For some, the [[spoiler:Fake Edema Ruh]] arc late in the second book had shades of this. Kvothe runs into another troupe of Edema Ruh, the first he's encountered since his childhood. He spends the evening in their company, but a feeling of gradual unease begins to creep up on him as the night goes on, cemented by the appearance of two teenage girls the troupe had abducted and made into sex slaves. Kvothe is reasonably disturbed and appalled by this, and retires in order to plot what to do about it. [[spoiler:Faced with proof that corruption and atrocity are present in even the apparently flawless Edema Ruh, you'd think this would be a huge blow to Kvothe's romanticized bias toward his people; but of course, it turns out they were bandits merely impersonating the Ruh, which Kvothe had quickly twigged right from the start due to the various minor holes in their Ruh knowledge.]] While still given a [[RoaringRampageOfRevenge very satisfying conclusion]], TheReveal removed some of the emotional depth the text was [[RedHerring seemingly]] building up to and reinforced the [[MarySueTopia above stereotype]].stereotype]].
* WriterOnBoard: Occurs twice in ''The Wise Man's Fear''.
** First when Kvothe glosses over a [[OffScreenMomentOfAwesome high-stakes, high-action]] [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot part of the plot]] and then goes into an angry rant about how this is ''his'' story and Chronicler isn't entitled to hear it any other way than the way ''he'' wants to tell it. It's almost impossible to not see that as Patrick Rothfuss' own pre-emptive attack on any readers who would be disappointed by this decision, and indeed, fans of the series have been known to use Kvothe's claim of "granting you a gift, not giving you your due" in response to criticism towards the series.
** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to [[UsefulNotes/VictimBlaming victim-blame]] them, and Kvothe ''breaks his arm'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?
5th Dec '15 7:59:48 AM Cieloazul
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** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to [[UsefulNotes/VictimBlaming victim-blame]] them, and Kvothe ''breaks his leg'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?

to:

** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to [[UsefulNotes/VictimBlaming victim-blame]] them, and Kvothe ''breaks his leg'' arm'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?



* RomanticPlotTumor: Some readers think Kvothe's very slowly developing romance with Denna takes up too much time. In the second book, Kvothe acknowledges that he has to woo her extremely slowly, for fear of scaring her off.
** Becomes FridgeBrilliance if you remember that Kvothe is a fifteen-year-old boy who's never had a crush before and this kind of behavior is pretty common in that scenario.
* TheScrappy: Denna comes off as this to many.

to:

* RomanticPlotTumor: Some readers think Kvothe's very slowly developing romance with Denna takes up too much time. In the second book, Kvothe acknowledges that he has to dedicate a lot of time to their story on the saying it will be important in the future.
** On the other hand, his kind of goofy behavior to
woo her extremely slowly, for fear of scaring her off.
** Becomes
becomes FridgeBrilliance if you remember that Kvothe is a fifteen-year-old boy who's never had a crush before and this kind of behavior is pretty common in that scenario.
before.
* TheScrappy: Denna comes off as this to many.many, who often find her annoying and unsympathetic for what they perceive as knowingly toying with Kvothe to spend her time when she is not luring rich guys to make a living.
29th Nov '15 11:26:25 AM CharlesPhipps
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Added DiffLines:

* TheScrappy: Denna comes off as this to many.
27th Nov '15 7:28:52 AM Baeraad555
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** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to victim-blame them, and Kvothe ''breaks his leg'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?

to:

** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to victim-blame [[UsefulNotes/VictimBlaming victim-blame]] them, and Kvothe ''breaks his leg'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?
13th Nov '15 1:55:46 AM Baeraad555
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Added DiffLines:

* AuthorOnBoard: Occurs twice in ''The Wise Man's Fear''.
** First when Kvothe glosses over a [[OffScreenMomentOfAwesome high-stakes, high-action]] [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot part of the plot]] and then goes into an angry rant about how this is ''his'' story and Chronicler isn't entitled to hear it any other way than the way ''he'' wants to tell it. It's almost impossible to not see that as Patrick Rothfuss' own pre-emptive attack on any readers who would be disappointed by this decision, and indeed, fans of the series have been known to use Kvothe's claim of "granting you a gift, not giving you your due" in response to criticism towards the series.
** Secondly with the subplot with the false Edema Ruh who kidnapped and raped two young girls. Kvothe brutally kills all of the culprits, subjects one to a CruelMercy and, while initially feeling shocked by his own savagery, soon decides that he's happy he did it because they deserved all of it and more. When he brings the girls back to their village, one of the villagers try to victim-blame them, and Kvothe ''breaks his leg'' as punishment before making him apologise, and is later told by the village's resident CoolOldLady that he was quite justified in doing so. Yes, Rothfuss, we get it, [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is bad]] - but perhaps you could tone it down just a little?
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheKingkillerChronicle