History YMMV / TheIliad

21st Nov '15 3:58:46 PM mindstalk
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** Is Nestor a wise leader who's [[CassandraTruth good council is ignored]] by the brash youths at war or is he a ManipulativeBastard who's [[BatmanGambit playing the other Greek leaders]] for the greater good of the greek coalition?

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** Is Nestor a wise leader who's whose [[CassandraTruth good council is ignored]] by the brash youths at war or is he a ManipulativeBastard who's [[BatmanGambit playing the other Greek leaders]] for the greater good of the greek coalition?



** When Diomedes rescues Nestor from Hector, when everyone on the Greek side(include badasses that have fought against and are equal to Hector such as Ajax) left the old man to die. Hell the two guys actually manage to turn the tables and ''almost kill Hector'', Zeus himself had to send three lighting bolts in front of their chariot before they were gonna single-highhandedly change the whole story of the Trojan War.

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** When Diomedes rescues Nestor from Hector, when everyone on the Greek side(include side (including badasses that have fought against and are equal to Hector such as Ajax) left the old man to die. Hell the two guys actually manage to turn the tables and ''almost kill Hector'', Zeus himself had to send three lighting bolts in front of their chariot before they were gonna single-highhandedly change the whole story of the Trojan War.



** There is a famous scene when Andromake suggests that Hector fight from the relative safety of the walls instead. Pointing out the she is a stranger in the city and neither she nor their son has anyone else to rely on if Hector dies. He declines, tries to hug his child, but the child is terrified not recognizing his father in the scary helmet. He takes off the helmet, and says something like: "Gods if I have ever pleased you, now hear my prayer: let my son grow up to be a great man so that he people say he is greater than his father." To the modern mind the continuation is a brutal aversion av a cuteness, to the Greeks it was probably natural. "And let him come home safely from combat with the bloody armor of his slain enemy and make his mummy glad." Hector does not mention himself in this wish for his son's future. He probably does not expect to live to see it.

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*** Paris had also stolen much treasure from Menelaos; this is mentioned a lot in the epic.
** There is a famous scene when Andromake suggests that Hector fight from the relative safety of the walls instead. Pointing instead, pointing out the she is a stranger in the city and neither she nor their son has anyone else to rely on if Hector dies. He declines, tries to hug his child, but the child is terrified not recognizing his father in the scary helmet. He takes off the helmet, and says something like: "Gods if I have ever pleased you, now hear my prayer: let my son grow up to be a great man so that he people say he is greater than his father." To the modern mind the continuation is a brutal aversion av a of cuteness, to the Greeks it was probably natural. "And let him come home safely from combat with the bloody armor of his slain enemy and make his mummy glad." Hector does not mention himself in this wish for his son's future. He probably does not expect to live to see it.
7th Oct '15 8:11:41 PM JustCause
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** Priam. Seriously.

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** Priam. Seriously.The scene where he enters the Greek camp and begs Achilles for Hector's body is a real tearjerker.
7th Oct '15 7:15:51 PM JustCause
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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: For modern audience at least. There's no point to be interrested in the story because [[ForegoneConclusion Troy is doomed to fall]]. Most of the characters on both side either die or will die in later events.

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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: For modern audience at least. There's no point to be interrested interested in the story because [[ForegoneConclusion Troy is doomed to fall]]. Most of the characters on both side either die or will die in later events.


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* EnsembleDarkhorse: Aeneas. Son of Venus and one of the few Trojan survivors of the war, he's a minor hero who only has two major scenes (both of which ends with him being rescued by the Gods). And yet the Romans would write [[Literature/TheAeneid a whole epic about him.]]
16th Aug '15 12:36:23 PM Silverblade2
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Added DiffLines:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: For modern audience at least. There's no point to be interrested in the story because [[ForegoneConclusion Troy is doomed to fall]]. Most of the characters on both side either die or will die in later events.
22nd Apr '15 4:15:55 AM Sensemaker
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** There is a famous scene when Andromake suggests that Hector fight from the relative safety of the walls instead. Pointing out the she is a stranger in the city and neither she nor their son has anyone else to rely on. He declines, tries to hug his child, but the child is terrified not recognizing his father in the scary helmet. He takes off the helmet, and says something like: "Gods if I have ever pleased you, now here my prayer: let my son grow up to be a great man so that he people say he is greater than his father." To the modern mind the continuation is a brutal aversion av a cuteness, to the Greeks it was probably natural. "And let him come home safely from combat with the bloody armor of his slain enemy and make his mummy glad." Hector does not mention himself in this wish for his son's future. He probably does not expect to live to see it.

to:

** There is a famous scene when Andromake suggests that Hector fight from the relative safety of the walls instead. Pointing out the she is a stranger in the city and neither she nor their son has anyone else to rely on.on if Hector dies. He declines, tries to hug his child, but the child is terrified not recognizing his father in the scary helmet. He takes off the helmet, and says something like: "Gods if I have ever pleased you, now here hear my prayer: let my son grow up to be a great man so that he people say he is greater than his father." To the modern mind the continuation is a brutal aversion av a cuteness, to the Greeks it was probably natural. "And let him come home safely from combat with the bloody armor of his slain enemy and make his mummy glad." Hector does not mention himself in this wish for his son's future. He probably does not expect to live to see it.
22nd Apr '15 4:14:14 AM Sensemaker
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Added DiffLines:

** There is a famous scene when Andromake suggests that Hector fight from the relative safety of the walls instead. Pointing out the she is a stranger in the city and neither she nor their son has anyone else to rely on. He declines, tries to hug his child, but the child is terrified not recognizing his father in the scary helmet. He takes off the helmet, and says something like: "Gods if I have ever pleased you, now here my prayer: let my son grow up to be a great man so that he people say he is greater than his father." To the modern mind the continuation is a brutal aversion av a cuteness, to the Greeks it was probably natural. "And let him come home safely from combat with the bloody armor of his slain enemy and make his mummy glad." Hector does not mention himself in this wish for his son's future. He probably does not expect to live to see it.
2nd Apr '15 7:47:53 AM Menshevik
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* FanPreferredCouple: Helen/Hector. Helen is/was the queen of [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy Sparta]] and subtly derides Paris for letting Hector do all the fighting. Hector is a CrazyAwesome [[{{Badass}} warrior]] who [[KnightInShiningArmor treats her courteously]], [[HonorBeforeReason even though he has every right not to]]. Since Helen openly wishes that Paris was more like Hector and Andromache is rather flat as a character, you can see where people are coming from.

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** Which is in part [[ValuesDissonance because desecrating an enemy's body was not something that set Hector apart]], and partly because Achilles [[DisproportionateRetribution was even more extreme]], entailing, apart from what he did to Hector, killing as many Trojans as he could lay his hands on and capturing a few dozen so he could use them as human sacrifices at Patroclus' funeral.
* FanPreferredCouple: Helen/Hector. Helen is/was the queen of Sparta (though before [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy Sparta]] the Doric invasion and subtly the setting up of the warrior society people associate with the name]]) and derides Paris for letting Hector do all the fighting. Hector is a CrazyAwesome [[{{Badass}} warrior]] who [[KnightInShiningArmor treats her courteously]], [[HonorBeforeReason even though he has every right not to]]. Since Helen openly wishes that Paris was more like Hector and Andromache is rather flat as a character, you can see where people are coming from.



** The whole concept of a war waged over a woman willingly escaping an arranged marriage may be uncomfortable by today's standards. Of course it seems that Helen is now being kept in Troy against her will.

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** The whole concept of a war waged over a woman willingly escaping (willingly or forced by Aphrodite?) leaving an arranged marriage may be uncomfortable by today's standards. Of course it seems that Helen is now being kept in Troy against her will.
23rd Mar '15 8:33:11 AM fbiuzz
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** When Diomedes rescues Nestor from Hector, when everyone on the Greek side(include badasses that have fought against and are equal to Hector such as Ajax) left the old man to die. Hell the two guys actually manage to turn the tables and ''almost kill Hector'', Zeus himself had to send three lighting bolts in front of their chariot before they were gonna single-highhandedly change the whole story of the Trojan War.
20th Jan '15 1:46:30 PM JustCause
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* HoYay: Achilles and Patroclus. In the book, they're nothing more than really close friends. And yet people have been speculating on them being lovers since ancient times.
31st Dec '14 1:57:05 PM WJTaylor4
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** Who is the real hero of the Iliad - Achilles or Hector?
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheIliad