History YMMV / TheGunsOfTheSouth

2nd Oct '16 9:30:01 PM Fireblood
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CriticalResearchFailure: On the part of the Rivington men, who failed to anticipate how popular their rations would be among the Confederates. Even more than a lack of arms, the inability to keep the army properly supplied played a huge role in the defeat of the South, something that has been well documented by historians.
* FridgeLogic: Isn't it peculiar that nobody - not even General Lee, when Andries Rhoodie told him that he and his compatriots hailed from South Africa - made the connection with the Boers/Afrikaners? In the mid-1860's, two of the best-known events in Afrikaner history, the Battle of Blood River and the Great Trek, were already several decades in the past, and a well-educated, savvy person like General Lee ought to have been able to figure out from where they came. (Of course, it does turn his thought "Dutchmen they are" when he hears the accents of Rhoodie's friends into an example of HilariousInHindsight.)

to:

* AcceptableEthnicTargets: The time-traveling Afrikaner extremists. All of them are portrayed as violent racist militants who like the fact that the Confederacy allows black slavery, buying slaves for themselves while there. To be fair however, the real-life group they came from was extreme even by apartheid standards (it was actually banned by the government in those days).
* CriticalResearchFailure: On the part of the Rivington men, who failed to anticipate how popular their rations would be among the Confederates. Even more than a lack of arms, the inability to keep the army properly supplied played a huge role in the defeat of the South, something that has been well documented well-documented by historians.
* FridgeLogic: Isn't it peculiar that nobody - not even General Lee, when Andries Rhoodie told him that he and his compatriots hailed from South Africa - made the connection with the Boers/Afrikaners? In the mid-1860's, two of the best-known events in Afrikaner history, the Battle of Blood River and the Great Trek, were already several decades in the past, and a well-educated, savvy person like General Lee ought to have been able to figure out from where they came. came (Of course, it does turn his thought "Dutchmen they are" when he hears the accents of Rhoodie's friends into an example of HilariousInHindsight.)HilariousInHindsight).



* GeniusBonus: Several lines of dialog spoken by the historical characters are [[TruthInTelevision things they actually said or wrote]], just in different context; only a historian or Civil War scholar could get them all. As one example, Robert E. Lee says "Let the tents be struck" after the war ends in both reality and Turtledove's novel, the only difference being that in the former he lost and in the latter he won.
** A variant of his last words, which were actually, "Strike the tent".

to:

* GeniusBonus: Several lines of dialog spoken by the historical characters are [[TruthInTelevision things they actually said or wrote]], just in different context; contexts; only a historian or Civil War scholar could get them all. As one example, Robert E. Lee says "Let the tents be struck" after the war ends in both reality and Turtledove's novel, the only difference being that in the former he lost and in the latter he won.
** A variant of his last words, which were actually, actually "Strike the tent".



* SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome: [[spoiler: When Robert E. Lee (having acquired an up-time textbook) realises that the Rivington Men do not represent the mainstream of views on race in the future]], and he delivers what to Rhoodie must be the ultimate insult: "You and your men are as out of place in your time as John Brown was in mine."
** The Confederates defeat a machine-gun by tunnelling under it and blowing it up (the Battle of the Crater in reverse, [[spoiler:thanks to the presence of an ex-Union officer who was a key instigator of the scheme in the original timeline]]).
* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when [[spoiler:they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary and his vice-president.]]
** [[spoiler:This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln. (Although Booth acted without the sanction of the Confederate government and there were no innocents killed there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.)]]

to:

* SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome: [[spoiler: When Robert E. Lee (having acquired an up-time textbook) realises realizes that the Rivington Men do not represent the mainstream of views on race in the future]], and he delivers what to Rhoodie must be the ultimate insult: "You and your men are as out of place in your time as John Brown was in mine."
** The Confederates defeat a machine-gun by tunnelling tunneling under it and blowing it up (the Battle of the Crater in reverse, [[spoiler:thanks to the presence of an ex-Union officer who was a key instigator of the scheme in the original timeline]]).
* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when [[spoiler:they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary and his vice-president.vice president.]]
** [[spoiler:This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln. (Although Lincoln (although Booth acted without the sanction of the Confederate government and there were no innocents killed there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did. The assassination also was denounced by the real Lee and Jefferson Davis.)]]
6th Sep '16 2:37:21 PM redandready45
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when [[spoiler:they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary.]]

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when [[spoiler:they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary.Mary and his vice-president.]]
11th Jul '16 4:40:17 PM Teakay
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Another one from Lee when discussing future military advances with Rhoodie: "It is well that war is so terrible, or we should get too fond of it."
28th Apr '15 12:51:14 PM Snarf
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* CriticalResearchFailure: On the part of the Rivington men, who failed to anticipate how popular their rations would be among the Confederates. Even more than a lack of arms, the inability to keep the army properly supplied played a huge role in the defeat of the South, something that has been well documented by historians.
6th Dec '14 9:11:36 PM redandready45
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome: When Robert E. Lee (having acquired an up-time textbook) realises that the Rivington Men do not represent the mainstream of views on race in the future, and he delivers what to Rhoodie must be the ultimate insult: "You and your men are as out of place in your time as John Brown was in mine."

to:

* SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome: [[spoiler: When Robert E. Lee (having acquired an up-time textbook) realises that the Rivington Men do not represent the mainstream of views on race in the future, future]], and he delivers what to Rhoodie must be the ultimate insult: "You and your men are as out of place in your time as John Brown was in mine."
19th May '14 3:10:00 PM Snarf
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[spoiler:This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln. (Although there were no innocents killed there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.)]]

to:

** [[spoiler:This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln. (Although Booth acted without the sanction of the Confederate government and there were no innocents killed there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.)]]
20th Jan '14 1:30:08 PM TheOneWhoTropes
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: [[spoiler:AbrahamLincoln]] sending Lee a telegram of condolence after his wife is killed in the AWB's attack on his inauguration.

to:

* SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments: [[spoiler:AbrahamLincoln]] [[spoiler:UsefulNotes/AbrahamLincoln]] sending Lee a telegram of condolence after his wife is killed in the AWB's attack on his inauguration.
9th Jan '14 5:12:41 PM TVRulezAgain
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CompleteMonster: Piet Hardie.
** Benjamin Butler, to the Confederates, which is very much TruthInTelevision thanks to the things he did while occupying New Orleans (such as instituting a law saying Confederate women who disrespected Union soldiers would be treated as prostitutes). When he's named one of the peace commissioners, everyone on the Confederate side expresses disgust, and Jeff Davis says that if he didn't have diplomatic immunity he'd gladly have the man arrested and hanged.
19th May '13 7:40:04 PM Tuckerscreator
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary.
** This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln. (Although there were no innocents killed there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.)
*** And that's the point: assassinating a president is bad enough, but it's the deliberate killing of large numbers of innocent civilians in the process that sends the attack clear over into MoralEventHorizon territory.
*** In fact, Lee already did know from the ''Picture History of the Civil War'' that Lincoln had been assassinated, and this very thought flies through his mind during the Richmond Massacre.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when they [[spoiler:they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary.
Mary.]]
** This [[spoiler:This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln. (Although there were no innocents killed there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.)
)]]
*** And [[spoiler:And that's the point: assassinating a president is bad enough, but it's the deliberate killing of large numbers of innocent civilians in the process that sends the attack clear over into MoralEventHorizon territory.
territory.]]
*** In [[spoiler:In fact, Lee already did know from the ''Picture History of the Civil War'' that Lincoln had been assassinated, and this very thought flies through his mind during the Richmond Massacre.]]
19th May '13 7:36:38 PM Tuckerscreator
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary.
** This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln, although there were no innocents killed there-to be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: The AWB crosses this in the eyes of the Confederacy when they attack Lee's inauguration with Uzis in an attempt to kill him, spraying bullets all over the place and killing countless civilians, including Lee's wife Mary.
** This is also a case of RealityIsUnrealistic, because the Confederates are outraged that anyone would try to assassinate a president in such a way and sure that none of their own people would do such a thing, not knowing that in the original timeline John Wilkes Booth would have done just that to Lincoln, although Lincoln. (Although there were no innocents killed there-to there. To be fair that would be hard using a single-shot pistol like Booth did.)
This list shows the last 10 events of 27. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheGunsOfTheSouth