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* Narm: From 2017 series, Danny Rand's dialogue with the Kingpin can come off as this to some considering Danny is cannonically in his 30's and comes of as he is trying to sound like a millenial.
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* Narm: {{Narm}}: From 2017 series, Danny Rand's dialogue with the Kingpin can come off as this to some considering Danny is cannonically in his 30's and comes of as he is trying to sound like a millenial.
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'''Danny:''' Because I literally hate them. And I don't hate. I'm chi-focused like that.\\
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'''Danny:''' Because I literally hate them. And I don't hate. I'm chi-focused like that.\\
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* Narm: From 2017 series, Danny Rand's dialogue with the Kingpin can come off as this to some considering Danny is cannonically in his 30's and talks he is trying to sound like a millenial.
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* Narm: From 2017 series, Danny Rand's dialogue with the Kingpin can come off as this to some considering Danny is cannonically in his 30's and talks comes of as he is trying to sound like a millenial.
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'''Spider-Man:''' Because I literally hate them. And I don't hate. I'm chi-focused like that.\
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* Narm: From 2017 series, Danny Rand's dialogue with the Kingpin can come off as this to some considering Danny is cannonically in his 30's and talks he is trying to sound like a millenial.
-->'''Fisk:''' I never see you at this types of things.\\
'''Spider-Man:''' Because I literally hate them. And I don't hate. I'm chi-focused like that.\
-->'''Fisk:''' I never see you at this types of things.\\
'''Spider-Man:''' Because I literally hate them. And I don't hate. I'm chi-focused like that.\
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* BrokenBase: The [[Creator/KeithGiffen Giffen]][=/=][[Creator/JMDeMatteis DeMatteis]][=/=][[Creator/KevinMaguire Maguire]] revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of that creative team bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
* DeaderThanDisco:
** Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
* DeaderThanDisco:
** Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
to:
* BrokenBase: BrokenBase:
** The [[Creator/KeithGiffen Giffen]][=/=][[Creator/JMDeMatteis DeMatteis]][=/=][[Creator/KevinMaguire Maguire]] revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of that creative team bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
* DeaderThanDisco:
** Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.]]
** The [[Creator/KeithGiffen Giffen]][=/=][[Creator/JMDeMatteis DeMatteis]][=/=][[Creator/KevinMaguire Maguire]] revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of that creative team bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.
* DeaderThanDisco:
** Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
to:
* DeaderThanDisco: DeaderThanDisco:
** Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12issues.issues.
** The announcement that Marvel would be launching a new Defenders book starring the characters from [[Series/TheDefenders2017 the TV show]]. Among fans of the Defenders comics, both the show and the comic it inspired have the same problem: [[InNameOnly They have nothing to do with any past iteration of the team]] other than [[NamesTheSame sharing a name]]. Those who don't mind the title being recycled argue that it isn't really a loss, since as mentioned in the DeaderThanDisco section, all of Marvel's prior attempts at a classic Defenders revival have failed miserably.
** Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12
** The announcement that Marvel would be launching a new Defenders book starring the characters from [[Series/TheDefenders2017 the TV show]]. Among fans of the Defenders comics, both the show and the comic it inspired have the same problem: [[InNameOnly They have nothing to do with any past iteration of the team]] other than [[NamesTheSame sharing a name]]. Those who don't mind the title being recycled argue that it isn't really a loss, since as mentioned in the DeaderThanDisco section, all of Marvel's prior attempts at a classic Defenders revival have failed miserably.
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* BaseBreaker: The [[Creator/KeithGiffen Giffen]][=/=][[Creator/JMDeMatteis DeMatteis]][=/=][[Creator/KevinMaguire Maguire]] revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of that creative team bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
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* BrokenBase: The [[Creator/KeithGiffen Giffen]][=/=][[Creator/JMDeMatteis DeMatteis]][=/=][[Creator/KevinMaguire Maguire]] revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of that creative team bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
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minor edit
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* BaseBreaker: The Creator/KeithGiffen, Creator/JMDeMatteis, and Creator/KevinMaguire revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of those creators bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
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* BaseBreaker: The Creator/KeithGiffen, Creator/JMDeMatteis, and Creator/KevinMaguire [[Creator/KeithGiffen Giffen]][=/=][[Creator/JMDeMatteis DeMatteis]][=/=][[Creator/KevinMaguire Maguire]] revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of those creators that creative team bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
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added YMMV
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* BaseBreaker: The Creator/KeithGiffen, Creator/JMDeMatteis, and Creator/KevinMaguire revival in 2005 has acquired a mixed reputation. On the one hand, fans of those creators bought it up, making it one of the few successful attempts to revive the franchise since the 1970s. On the other hand, the miniseries' comedic approached rubbed some longtime fans the wrong way, especially when it turned Umar - canonically one of the most powerful villainesses in the Marvel universe - into a sex-starved diva who blows off Dormammu's big plan to reshape the universe his image in order to have sex with the Hulk, which has rendered her [[NeverLiveItDown all but unusable to subsequent writers, because nobody sees her as a serious threat anymore.]]
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* FanonDiscontinuity: All Elf With A Gun appearances that were not written by Steve Gerber, including the pay-off to the whole thing where [[spoiler: it was revealed that the Elf was killing off nexus people who were a threat to the stability of the timeline and that the elf was part of a larger group of elves that were trying to stave off an apocalypse that would occur if the founding four Defenders stayed together]].
to:
* FanonDiscontinuity: All Elf With A Gun appearances that were not written by Steve Gerber, including the pay-off to the whole thing where [[spoiler: it [[spoiler:it was revealed that the Elf was killing off nexus people who were a threat to the stability of the timeline and that the elf was part of a larger group of elves that were trying to stave off an apocalypse that would occur if the founding four Defenders stayed together]].
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* MyRealDaddy: SteveGerber.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: The [[http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/defenders_66.shtml 'Val in Valhalla']] arc, where a shunned Asgardian named Ollerus tries to take over Valhalla and uses a fake Valkyrie to dupe the Defenders into helping him. A letter in issue 73 asked why the story had a great set-up but was ultimately underwhelming, and it was a case of RealLifeWritesThePlot: writer David Kraft was leaving Marvel having only delivered the first part of this arc, and as the deadline came closer, it forced pneciler Ed Hannigan to get Kraft's notes and work out a plot of sorts.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: The [[http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/defenders_66.shtml 'Val in Valhalla']] arc, where a shunned Asgardian named Ollerus tries to take over Valhalla and uses a fake Valkyrie to dupe the Defenders into helping him. A letter in issue 73 asked why the story had a great set-up but was ultimately underwhelming, and it was a case of RealLifeWritesThePlot: writer David Kraft was leaving Marvel having only delivered the first part of this arc, and as the deadline came closer, it forced pneciler Ed Hannigan to get Kraft's notes and work out a plot of sorts.
to:
* MyRealDaddy: SteveGerber.
Creator/SteveGerber.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: The [[http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/defenders_66.shtml 'Val in Valhalla']] arc, where a shunned Asgardian named Ollerus tries to take over Valhalla and uses a fake Valkyrie to dupe the Defenders into helping him. A letter in issue 73 asked why the story had a great set-up but was ultimately underwhelming, and it was a case of RealLifeWritesThePlot: writer David Kraft was leaving Marvel having only delivered the first part of this arc, and as the deadline came closer, it forcedpneciler penciler Ed Hannigan to get Kraft's notes and work out a plot of sorts.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: The [[http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/defenders_66.shtml 'Val in Valhalla']] arc, where a shunned Asgardian named Ollerus tries to take over Valhalla and uses a fake Valkyrie to dupe the Defenders into helping him. A letter in issue 73 asked why the story had a great set-up but was ultimately underwhelming, and it was a case of RealLifeWritesThePlot: writer David Kraft was leaving Marvel having only delivered the first part of this arc, and as the deadline came closer, it forced
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: The [[http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/defenders_66.shtml 'Val in Valhalla']] arc, where a shunned Asgardian named Ollerus tries to take over Valhalla and uses a fake Valkyrie to dupe the Defenders into helping him. A letter in issue 73 asked why the story had a great set-up but was ultimately underwhelming, and it was a case of RealLifeWritesThePlot: writer David Kraft was leaving Marvel having only delivered the first part of this arc, and as the deadline came closer, it forced pneciler Ed Hannigan to get Kraft's notes and work out a plot of sorts.
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Series.The Defenders 2017 has its own page now.
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!! Marvel Comics:
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!! Marvel/Netflix series:
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This doesn't fit for two reasons. One it would need be on the trivia page. Two Follow The Leader doesn't apply when it's the same company doing it.
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* FollowTheLeader: With the success of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', Marvel decided to use the same formula to create a Netflix series based on ''The Defenders''.
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!For the Marvel comics series:
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! For the Marvel/Netflix series of the same name:
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* FollowTheLeader: With the success of ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', Marvel decided to use the same
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! For the Marvel/Netflix series of the same name:
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! For the Marvel/Netflix series of the same name:name:
-----
-----
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!For the Marvel comics series:
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* MyRealDaddy: SteveGerber.
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* MyRealDaddy: SteveGerber.SteveGerber.
! For the Marvel/Netflix series of the same name:
! For the Marvel/Netflix series of the same name:
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
to:
* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, (ComicBook/NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' lasted 12 issues.
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** In MarvelVsCapcom3, Dr. Strange would mention plans to put together an all-female Defenders team. Three years later...
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** In MarvelVsCapcom3, ''VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcom3'', Dr. Strange would mention plans to put together an all-female Defenders team. Three years later...
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.
to:
* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.lasted 12 issues.
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** In MarvelVsCapcom3, Dr. Strange would mention plans to put together an all-female Defenders team. Three years later...
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. Matt Fraction's 2011 run ended after 12 issues, though most fans blamed a slow start plus Fraction's reputation being at a low ebb after the poorly-received ''Comicbook/FearItself''. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.
to:
* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. Matt Fraction's 2011 run ended after 12 issues, though most fans blamed a slow start plus Fraction's reputation being at a low ebb after the poorly-received ''Comicbook/FearItself''. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.
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Namor joined the Avengers at the time the New Defenders revamp started. Decades later, he was allowed to be both an X-Men and Defender, when the X-Men guys got their hands on him
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. Matt Fraction's 2011 run ended after 12 issues, though most fans blamed a slow start plus Fraction's reputation being at a low ebb after the poorly-received ''Comicbook/FearItself''. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.
to:
* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. Matt Fraction's 2011 run ended after 12 issues, though most fans blamed a slow start plus Fraction's reputation being at a low ebb after the poorly-received ''Comicbook/FearItself''. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The most recent attempt, Matt Fraction's 2011 run, was ended after 12 issues.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The most recent attempt, Matt Fraction's 2011 run, was run ended after 12 issues.issues, though most fans blamed a slow start plus Fraction's reputation being at a low ebb after the poorly-received ''Comicbook/FearItself''. The Marvel NOW! version, ''Fearless Defenders'' has its work cut out for it.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the ComicBook/TheAvengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the ComicBook/TheAvengers ComicBook/{{X-Men}} franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The most recent attempt, Matt Fraction's 2011 run, was ended after 12 issues.
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* HilariousInHindsight: At one point the team had Daimon Hellstrom, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
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* HilariousInHindsight: At one point the team had Daimon Hellstrom, the Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the 70s, the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the X-Men as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (X-Factor, New Mutants, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind JLI which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the 70s, [[TheSeventies 1970s]], the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the X-Men ComicBook/{{X-Men}} as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (X-Factor, New Mutants, (NewMutants, Comicbook/{{X-Factor}}, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers ComicBook/TheAvengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind JLI ComicBook/JusticeLeagueInternational which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the 70s, the title's disastrous "New Defender" revamp, the resurgence of the X-Men as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (X-Factor, New Mutants, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind JLI which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the 70s, the title's disastrous "New Defender" Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the X-Men as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (X-Factor, New Mutants, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind JLI which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy.
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** Bendis's controversial revamp of the Avengers has been denounced as him basically taking the Avengers and turning it into the Defenders; this was acknowledged by Bendis himself several years into his run, when he had Knighthawk outright tell the New Avengers this, during a period when the team consisted of Wolverine, Thing, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Miss Marvel, and Squirrel Girl.
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** Bendis's controversial revamp of the Avengers has been denounced as him basically taking the Avengers and turning it into the Defenders; this Defenders. This was acknowledged by Bendis himself several years into his run, when he had Knighthawk outright tell Nighthawk say "Clearly you guys are the New Avengers this, Defenders," during a period when the team consisted of Wolverine, the Thing, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Miss Doctor Strange, Mockingbird, Ms. Marvel, and Squirrel Girl.Girl.
* MyRealDaddy: SteveGerber.
* MyRealDaddy: SteveGerber.
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* FanonDiscontinuity: All Elf With A Gun appearances that were not written by Steve Gerber, including the pay-off to the whole thing where [[spoiler: it was revealed that the Elf was killing off nexus people who were a threat to the stability of the timeline and that the elf was part of a larger group of elves that were trying to stave off an apocalypse that would occur if the founding four Defenders stayed together]].
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* HilariousInHindsight: At one point the team had Daimon Hellstrom, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
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* DeaderThanDisco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the 70s, the title's disastrous "New Defender" revamp, the resurgence of the X-Men as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (X-Factor, New Mutants, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind JLI which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy.
* HilariousInHindsight: At one point the team had Daimon Hellstrom, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time asDevil-Slayer.Devil-Slayer.
** Bendis's controversial revamp of the Avengers has been denounced as him basically taking the Avengers and turning it into the Defenders; this was acknowledged by Bendis himself several years into his run, when he had Knighthawk outright tell the New Avengers this, during a period when the team consisted of Wolverine, Thing, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Miss Marvel, and Squirrel Girl.
* HilariousInHindsight: At one point the team had Daimon Hellstrom, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as
** Bendis's controversial revamp of the Avengers has been denounced as him basically taking the Avengers and turning it into the Defenders; this was acknowledged by Bendis himself several years into his run, when he had Knighthawk outright tell the New Avengers this, during a period when the team consisted of Wolverine, Thing, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Miss Marvel, and Squirrel Girl.
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* HilariousInHindsight: It's weird once you realize that the team had Hellstorm, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
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* HilariousInHindsight: It's weird once you realize that At one point the team had Hellstorm, Daimon Hellstrom, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
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* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Any scene involving Gerber's infamous Elf with a Gun.
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* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Any scene involving Gerber's infamous Elf with a Gun.Gun.
* HilariousInHindsight: It's weird once you realize that the team had Hellstorm, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
* HilariousInHindsight: It's weird once you realize that the team had Hellstorm, Son of Satan, as a member at the same time as Devil-Slayer.
