History YMMV / TheDarkKnight

22nd Feb '16 8:05:56 AM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker (who describes himself as an [[CardCarryingVillain "agent of chaos"]]) is [[EstablishingCharacterMoment introduced]] by [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness killing each of his goons]] during a bank robbery. The Joker proceeds to exploit the Mobís desire to be rid of Franchise/{{Batman}}, casually murdering [[BadBoss henchmen]], politicians and [[CopKiller police]] to force Batman to unmask himself. He also makes the accountant attempting to unmask Batman a target; [[ManOnFire ties a crime boss to a pile of money which he then burns]]; kills a gangster by [[EyeScream making a pencil disappear...eraser-end first]]; blows up a hospital; attempts a Prisonerís Dilemma Scenario to get a boatload of civilians and prisoners to blow each other up; and, primarily by [[ManipulativeBastard manipulating]] a SadisticChoice leading to Rachel Dawes's death, and then by {{mind rap|e}}ing an injured Harvey Dent in the hospital and is the driving force behind [[StartOfDarkness his transformation into Two-Face]]. The Joker's main motivation is [[ForTheEvulz fun]], but he also wants to show that anyone and everyone can and will become a monster if pushed far enough (or even if just given the chance). He's proven wrong. Even so, he doesn't care; no VillainousBSOD, just an annoyed shrug and an attempt to blow the two boats sky high with his own detonator. All the while, the Joker states how [[EvilerThanThou heís just out to give Gotham a "better class of criminal"]]. Alfred put it best when he said [[ChaoticEvil "Some men]] just [[ChaosIsEvil want to watch the world burn."]]

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* CompleteMonster: SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker (who describes himself as an [[CardCarryingVillain "agent of chaos"]]) is [[EstablishingCharacterMoment introduced]] by [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness killing each of his goons]] during a bank robbery. The Joker proceeds to exploit the Mobís desire to be rid of Franchise/{{Batman}}, casually murdering [[BadBoss henchmen]], politicians and [[CopKiller police]] to force Batman to unmask himself. He also makes the accountant attempting to unmask Batman a target; [[ManOnFire ties a crime boss to a pile of money which he then burns]]; kills a gangster by [[EyeScream making a pencil disappear...eraser-end first]]; blows up a hospital; attempts a Prisonerís Dilemma Scenario to get a boatload of civilians and prisoners to blow each other up; and, primarily by [[ManipulativeBastard manipulating]] a SadisticChoice leading to Rachel Dawes's death, and then by {{mind rap|e}}ing an injured Harvey Dent in the hospital and is the driving force behind [[StartOfDarkness his transformation into Two-Face]]. The Joker's main motivation is [[ForTheEvulz fun]], but he also wants to show that anyone and everyone can and will become a monster if pushed far enough (or even if just given the chance). He's proven wrong. Even so, he doesn't care; no VillainousBSOD, just an annoyed shrug and an attempt to blow the two boats sky high with his own detonator. All the while, the Joker states how [[EvilerThanThou heís just out to give Gotham a "better class of criminal"]]. Alfred put it best when he said [[ChaoticEvil "Some men]] just [[ChaosIsEvil want to watch the world burn."]]
18th Feb '16 10:52:37 AM StarSword
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** Did Joker really not have a plan or was he lying to enhance his mystique?
*** Depends on whether or not you consider a prank to be a plan.

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** Did Joker really not have a plan or was he lying to enhance his mystique?
***
mystique? Depends on whether or not you consider a prank to be a plan.plan.
** One fan theory about the Joker's origin is that he is a ShellShockedVeteran from one of the United States' conflicts in the Middle East. Being an ex-soldier would explain his familiarity with guns and explosives, including more military grade weapons like the RPG he uses during the truck chase scene. Despite his claims that he isn't a "guy with a plan", there's no denying the Joker executes his operations with extreme efficiency and tactical ability, like his elaborate and borderline-perfect bank heist or his escape from jail. He also demonstrated knowledge of honor guard ceremonies during the attack on Commissioner Loeb's funeral. Finally, his strong belief in anarchy and chaos, and hatred of authority and "scehmers", is further evidence that he suffered a HeroicBSOD at some point in the past over being a soldier in a geopolitical squabble. This possible origin also fits in nicely with the movie's post-9/11 world view, which interpreted the Joker as more of a terrorist than a criminal or mobster, and featured electronic surveillance and panic over the Joker's actions as key plot points. Full article [[http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/03/26/is-the-dark-knight-s-joker-actually-a-war-veteran-2811973?lt_source=external,manual here]].



* {{Fanon}}: The most popular fan theory about the Joker's origin is that he is a ShellShockedVeteran from one of the United States' conflicts in the Middle East. It's probably the most popular because it fits the best with the Joker's methods and motives. Being an ex-soldier would explain his familiarity with guns and explosives, including more military grade weapons like the RPG he uses during the truck chase scene. Despite his claims that he isn't a "guy with a plan", there's no denying the Joker executes his operations with extreme efficiency and tactical ability, like his elaborate and borderline-perfect bank heist or his escape from jail. He also demonstrated knowledge of honor guard ceremonies during the attack on Commissioner Loeb's funeral. Finally, his strong belief in anarchy and chaos, and hatred of authority and "scehmers", is further evidence that he suffered a HeroicBSOD at some point in the past over being a soldier in a geopolitical squabble. This possible origin also fits in nicely with the movie's post-9/11 world view, which interpreted the Joker as more of a terrorist than a criminal or mobster, and featured electronic surveillance and panic over the Joker's actions as key plot points. Full article [[http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/03/26/is-the-dark-knight-s-joker-actually-a-war-veteran-2811973?lt_source=external,manual here]].
7th Feb '16 8:08:52 AM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

* EpilepticTrees: The film's refusal to give Joker a definite origin has not stopped people to speculate. One theory that has become popular is the notion that Heath Ledger's Joker is in fact a ShellShockedVeteran from the Iraq War. This theory was openly floated [[http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/05/new-hints-to-the-jokers-past-and-a-possible-robin-connection in the Dark Knight manual]] while still maintaining MultipleChoicePast. [[http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/3-fan-theories-might-change-way-you-look-dark-knight-trilogy Other fan sites]] have also discussed this theory.
7th Feb '16 5:06:45 AM Spinosegnosaurus77
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* MagnumOpus: ''The Dark Knight'' is easily considered the best Batman film ever made. It is also tied with ''Film/SpiderMan2'' as the most critically acclaimed superhero film on Rotten Tomatoes.
22nd Jan '16 2:29:55 PM Dragon101
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** A lot of the film runs on minor {{Ass Pull}}s of one kind or another. For example, Batman being able to pull a print off of a ''shattered bullet'' is only marginally outdone by the Joker seemingly ''counting'' on him doing just that; the earlier scene where Joker takes over Bruces' party has things like Bruce knocking Harvey out from behind with Harvey never asking what happened, along with Joker and his goons escaping after Batman saves Rachel without us being shown; and that isn't getting into the highly improbably nature of many of the Jokers' convoluted plans.

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** A lot of the film runs on minor {{Ass Pull}}s of one kind or another. For example, Batman being able to pull a print off of a ''shattered bullet'' is only marginally outdone by the Joker seemingly ''counting'' on him doing just that; the earlier scene where Joker takes over Bruces' party has things like Bruce knocking Harvey out from behind with Harvey never asking what happened, along with Joker and his goons escaping after Batman saves Rachel without us being shown; and that isn't getting into the highly improbably improbable nature of many of the Jokers' convoluted plans. plans.
22nd Jan '16 2:29:03 PM Dragon101
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Added DiffLines:

** A lot of the film runs on minor {{Ass Pull}}s of one kind or another. For example, Batman being able to pull a print off of a ''shattered bullet'' is only marginally outdone by the Joker seemingly ''counting'' on him doing just that; the earlier scene where Joker takes over Bruces' party has things like Bruce knocking Harvey out from behind with Harvey never asking what happened, along with Joker and his goons escaping after Batman saves Rachel without us being shown; and that isn't getting into the highly improbably nature of many of the Jokers' convoluted plans.
13th Jan '16 1:35:53 PM Anddrix
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* FollowTheLeader: The film had a profound impact on action movies after it came out. The emphasis on more realism, practical effects, more terrorist-flavored villains, and the feeling that AnyoneCanDie without warning influenced franchises from James Bond to The Avengers to Star Trek. In particular, the TrojanPrisoner (villain gets caught in the second act, causes death and mayhem, and then escapes while the heroes acknowledge "he ''wanted to get caught!") began getting used a lot after the Joker used it.
13th Jan '16 1:20:13 PM Silverblade2
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* MartyStu: Subverted in the person of Harvey Dent, a handsome, lantern-jawed, blue-eyed, blond-haired ''manly'' man's man who waltzes into the movie to steal both Bruce Wayne's girlfriend and Batman's crime-fighting thunder. He's quick-witted, fearless, and willing to continue examining a witness who's just tried to kill him in open court. The subversion kicks in when [[spoiler:Dent incurs a traumatic loss similar to the one that created Batman. Unlike Bruce, [[FaceHeelTurn he doesn't react in the most constructive fashion]], and [[RedRightHand loses his Marty Stu polish accordingly]].]]



* VillainSue: Joker rides this trope all the way to the bank. Or perhaps from the bank in a school bus. While he ''could'' just be a MagnificentBastard, at times he just seems to be ''too'' lucky in his plans, or they're ''too'' well planned out to be believable, ''especially'' his escape from the police station[[note]]Offscreen, he was able to overpower a cop and use him as a hostage using a piece of glass from a window Batman smashed while beating him up, was able to get the cops to do what he wants without any shooting him, then escape unharmed after blowing up the station. All the while right after being hit really hard by Batman several times without any sign of brain damage, AND after being able to have organized the kidnapping of Dent and Rachel, while offscreen. There's being smart and well planned, but this is too much[[/note]], and while his plan to prove Gotham's citizens are no better than their criminals doesn't work, in the end, ''he still wins'', since he [[spoiler:did manage to corrupt Harvey Dent, and he made Batman break his own rule and made Gordon break his own principles to cover it up.]] It doesn't mean he's not any less entertaining to watch, nor is this new for his character, but it does weaken the film's' plot.
14th Dec '15 7:06:49 AM Tork
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Added DiffLines:

* FollowTheLeader: The film had a profound impact on action movies after it came out. The emphasis on more realism, practical effects, more terrorist-flavored villains, and the feeling that AnyoneCanDie without warning influenced franchises from James Bond to The Avengers to Star Trek. In particular, the TrojanPrisoner (villain gets caught in the second act, causes death and mayhem, and then escapes while the heroes acknowledge "he ''wanted to get caught!") began getting used a lot after the Joker used it.
11th Oct '15 1:01:26 PM gunslingerofgilead
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* The most popular fan theory about the Joker's origin is that he is a ShellShockedVeteran from one of the United States' conflicts in the Middle East. It's probably the most popular because it fits the best with the Joker's methods and motives. Being an ex-soldier would explain his familiarity with guns and explosives, including more military grade weapons like the RPG he uses during the truck chase scene. Despite his claims that he isn't a "guy with a plan", there's no denying the Joker executes his operations with extreme efficiency and tactical ability, like his elaborate and borderline-perfect bank heist or his escape from jail. He also demonstrated knowledge of honor guard ceremonies during the attack on Commissioner Loeb's funeral. Finally, his strong belief in anarchy and chaos, and hatred of authority and "scehmers", is further evidence that he suffered a HeroicBSOD at some point in the past over being a soldier in a geopolitical squabble. This possible origin also fits in nicely with the movie's post-9/11 world view, which interpreted the Joker as more of a terrorist than a criminal or mobster, and featured electronic surveillance and panic over the Joker's actions as key plot points. Full article [[http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/03/26/is-the-dark-knight-s-joker-actually-a-war-veteran-2811973?lt_source=external,manual here]].

to:

* {{Fanon}}: The most popular fan theory about the Joker's origin is that he is a ShellShockedVeteran from one of the United States' conflicts in the Middle East. It's probably the most popular because it fits the best with the Joker's methods and motives. Being an ex-soldier would explain his familiarity with guns and explosives, including more military grade weapons like the RPG he uses during the truck chase scene. Despite his claims that he isn't a "guy with a plan", there's no denying the Joker executes his operations with extreme efficiency and tactical ability, like his elaborate and borderline-perfect bank heist or his escape from jail. He also demonstrated knowledge of honor guard ceremonies during the attack on Commissioner Loeb's funeral. Finally, his strong belief in anarchy and chaos, and hatred of authority and "scehmers", is further evidence that he suffered a HeroicBSOD at some point in the past over being a soldier in a geopolitical squabble. This possible origin also fits in nicely with the movie's post-9/11 world view, which interpreted the Joker as more of a terrorist than a criminal or mobster, and featured electronic surveillance and panic over the Joker's actions as key plot points. Full article [[http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/03/26/is-the-dark-knight-s-joker-actually-a-war-veteran-2811973?lt_source=external,manual here]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheDarkKnight