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** While the twist that Leon betrayed the party was shocking at the time, [[OnceOriginalNowOverdone it's blatantly obvious now]] that the ''Tales'' formula has become established that Leon is going to be the game's traitor. He's constantly sour and unpleasant about working with the party and flat-out tells Stahn he's not his friend in the original PSX game.
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** While the twist that Leon betrayed the party was shocking at the time, [[OnceOriginalNowOverdone [[OnceOriginalNowCommon it's blatantly obvious now]] that the ''Tales'' formula has become established that Leon is going to be the game's traitor. He's constantly sour and unpleasant about working with the party and flat-out tells Stahn he's not his friend in the original PSX game.
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* OnceOriginalNowOverdone: This is the first ''Tales'' games to feature a major character betraying the party and dying for it. At the time this was a shocking twist that skyrocketed Leon Magnus to popularity, but since then nearly every ''Tales'' game has felt the need to add a traitor character to the party, leaving the twist these days feeling [[ObviousJudas pretty blatantly obvious]] and overdone.
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* OnceOriginalNowOverdone: OnceOriginalNowCommon: This is the first ''Tales'' games to feature a major character betraying the party and dying for it. At the time this was a shocking twist that skyrocketed Leon Magnus to popularity, but since then nearly every ''Tales'' game has felt the need to add a traitor character to the party, leaving the twist these days feeling [[ObviousJudas pretty blatantly obvious]] and overdone.
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** In the PS2 remake, it's made obvious that Hugo is a smarmy JerkAss ready to betray the King of Seinegald, complete with his redesign for the game sporting FourEyesZeroSoul, a BeardOfEvil, and a SlasherSmile, yet it's a shocking twist in-universe when he has Leon steal the Eye of Atamoni.
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** In the PS2 [=PS2=] remake, it's made obvious that Hugo is a smarmy JerkAss ready to betray the King of Seinegald, complete with his redesign for the game sporting FourEyesZeroSoul, a BeardOfEvil, and a SlasherSmile, yet it's a shocking twist in-universe when he has Leon steal the Eye of Atamoni.
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* ObviousJudas:
** While the twist that Leon betrayed the party was shocking at the time, [[OnceOriginalNowOverdone it's blatantly obvious now]] that the ''Tales'' formula has become established that Leon is going to be the game's traitor. He's constantly sour and unpleasant about working with the party and flat-out tells Stahn he's not his friend in the original PSX game.
** In the PS2 remake, it's made obvious that Hugo is a smarmy JerkAss ready to betray the King of Seinegald, complete with his redesign for the game sporting FourEyesZeroSoul, a BeardOfEvil, and a SlasherSmile, yet it's a shocking twist in-universe when he has Leon steal the Eye of Atamoni.
* OnceOriginalNowOverdone: This is the first ''Tales'' games to feature a major character betraying the party and dying for it. At the time this was a shocking twist that skyrocketed Leon Magnus to popularity, but since then nearly every ''Tales'' game has felt the need to add a traitor character to the party, leaving the twist these days feeling [[ObviousJudas pretty blatantly obvious]] and overdone.
** While the twist that Leon betrayed the party was shocking at the time, [[OnceOriginalNowOverdone it's blatantly obvious now]] that the ''Tales'' formula has become established that Leon is going to be the game's traitor. He's constantly sour and unpleasant about working with the party and flat-out tells Stahn he's not his friend in the original PSX game.
** In the PS2 remake, it's made obvious that Hugo is a smarmy JerkAss ready to betray the King of Seinegald, complete with his redesign for the game sporting FourEyesZeroSoul, a BeardOfEvil, and a SlasherSmile, yet it's a shocking twist in-universe when he has Leon steal the Eye of Atamoni.
* OnceOriginalNowOverdone: This is the first ''Tales'' games to feature a major character betraying the party and dying for it. At the time this was a shocking twist that skyrocketed Leon Magnus to popularity, but since then nearly every ''Tales'' game has felt the need to add a traitor character to the party, leaving the twist these days feeling [[ObviousJudas pretty blatantly obvious]] and overdone.
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* FanonDiscontinuity: The localized names for Woodrow[[note]]Garr[[/note]], Johnny[[note]]Karyl[[/note]] and Kongman[[note]]Bruiser Kang[[/note]] are completely by fans, who exclusively use their Japanese names.
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* FanonDiscontinuity: The localized names for Woodrow[[note]]Garr[[/note]], Johnny[[note]]Karyl[[/note]] Johnny[[note]]Karyl[[/note]], Miktran[[note]]Kronos[[/note]] and Kongman[[note]]Bruiser Kang[[/note]] are completely ignored by fans, who exclusively use their Japanese names.
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* FanonDiscontinuity: The localized names for Woodrow[[note]]Garr[[/note]], Johnny[[note]]Karyl[[/note]] and Kongman[[note]]Bruiser Kang[[/note]] are completely by fans, who exclusively use their Japanese names.
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* StrangledByTheRedString: Stahn and Rutee in the original game. While Rutee's crush on Stahn is established somewhat early on, Stahn shows no interest in her romantically at all, instead going on a date with Ilene Rembrandt and seemingly being genuinely happy with her before they have to part. Stahn and Rutee's most important late game conversation shows the pair's relationship at its lowest point yet after Rutee [[spoiler:says Ilene deserved to kill herself,]] earning a WhatTheHellHero speech from Stahn. They never truly make up from this fight and yet the sequel has the two HappilyMarried with no further explanation. Even worse, it was possible for Stahn to have romantic moments with both Philia and Mary in the original game (as well as the HoYay between him and Leon), making his ending up with Rutee even more confusing to audiences.
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Need more context.
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* TooCoolToLive: [[spoiler:Leon.]]
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YMMV can't be played with.
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** Averted in the remake, where most of the {{Jerkass}} was dropped, and he comes off as more of a JerkWithAHeartOfGold.
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: In the original PSX version, Leon Magnus was supposed to be a {{Jerkass}} with a deserved death. However, much of his jerkass behavior involved [[TakeThatScrappy picking on]] TheScrappy [[AssholeVictim of the game]], he had a pretty depressing backstory that made him come off as more of a JerkassWoobie with a FreudianExcuse, and he was quite attractive, which made him into a DracoInLeatherPants. Namco took notice and not only [[spoiler:gave him a larger role in the sequel]], but rewrote him into less of a jerk. Surprisingly, it worked wonders, as Leon became legitimately sympathetic and a much more likable character because of that without losing his cold attitude. [[spoiler:Though he's still not spared from his canon death]].
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Oedipus Complex is a disambiguation
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* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Again, Leon. As the fan favourite, he's been paired with everyone. [[OedipusComplex Marian]], Stahn, [[ShipMates Philia]], [[CargoShip Chaltier]], [[BrotherSisterIncest Rutee]], [[ParentalIncest Hu]][[MemeticMolester go]], [[spoiler: [[ScrewYourself Judas]]]], [[CrackPairing Lilith]], sometimes even [[CrossoverShip Yuri]]. Oddly, [[spoiler: Judas]] is rarely shipped with anyone besides Harold or Philia.
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* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Again, Leon. As the fan favourite, he's been paired with everyone. [[OedipusComplex Marian]], Marian, Stahn, [[ShipMates Philia]], [[CargoShip Chaltier]], [[BrotherSisterIncest Rutee]], [[ParentalIncest Hu]][[MemeticMolester go]], [[spoiler: [[ScrewYourself Judas]]]], [[CrackPairing Lilith]], sometimes even [[CrossoverShip Yuri]]. Oddly, [[spoiler: Judas]] is rarely shipped with anyone besides Harold or Philia.
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* SequelDifficultySpike: Well, more like [[VideoGameRemake Remake]] Difficulty Spike. The original ''Tales of Destiny'' is a fairly standard difficulty curve throughout most of the game. ''Director's Cut'' seems to be the same and offers you GameBreaker a-plenty. Then you hit the last quarter of the game and puzzles become [[GuideDangIt ridiculously complex]], enemy damage and HP soars through the roof, and the endgame becomes one of the hardest for a standard difficulty setting in the ''entire mainline series''.
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* SequelDifficultySpike: Well, more like [[VideoGameRemake Remake]] Difficulty Spike. The original ''Tales of Destiny'' is a fairly standard difficulty curve throughout most of the game. ''Director's Cut'' seems to be the same and offers you GameBreaker a-plenty. Then you hit the last quarter of the game and puzzles become [[GuideDangIt ridiculously complex]], enemy damage and HP soars through the roof, and the endgame becomes one of the hardest for a standard difficulty setting in the ''entire mainline series''. The game was made for those familiar with the series and especially the original, and takes the opportunity to kick your legs in for it hard.
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* SequelDifficultySpike: Well, more like [[VideoGameRemake Remake]] Difficulty Spike. The original ''Tales of Destiny'' is a fairly standard difficulty curve throughout most of the game. ''Director's Cut'' seems to be the same and offers you GameBreaker a-plenty. Then you hit the last quarter of the game and puzzles become [[GuideDangIt ridiculously complex]], enemy damage and HP soars through the roof, and the endgame becomes one of the hardest for a standard difficulty setting in the ''entire mainline series''.
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Bishonen is a definition-only page; chained sinkholes
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* MemeticBadass: Leon. He's a [[DeadpanSnarker Deadpan Snarking]] [[GameBreaker Game Breaking]] {{Bishounen}} with an awesome flashy move set [[spoiler:and was TooCoolToLive]]. It was bound to happen.
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* MemeticBadass: Leon. He's a [[DeadpanSnarker Deadpan Snarking]] [[GameBreaker Game Breaking]] {{Bishounen}} snarky, very handsome and extremely powerful with an awesome flashy move set [[spoiler:and was TooCoolToLive]]. It was bound to happen.
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* MoralEventHorizon: Go [[MoralEventHorizon/TalesSeries here]].
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!![[center: [- [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/TalesSeries Alternative Character Interpretation]] | [[AndTheFandomRejoiced/TalesSeries And The Fandom Rejoiced]] | [[AwesomeBosses/TalesSeries Awesome Bosses]] | [[BrokenBase/TalesSeries Broken Base]] | [[Monster/TalesSeries Complete Monster]] | [[DieForOurShip/TalesSeries Die For Our Ship]] | [[GameBreaker/TalesSeries Game Breaker]] | [[Narm/TalesSeries Narm]] | [[PlayerPunch/TalesSeries Player Punch]] | [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap/TalesSeries Rescued From The Scrappy Heap]] | [[ScrappyMechanic/TalesSeries Scrappy Mechanic]] | [[ThatOneAchievement/TalesSeries That One Achievement]] | [[ThatOneAttack/TalesSeries That One Attack]] | [[ThatOneBoss/TalesSeries That One Boss]] | [[ThatOneLevel/TalesSeries That One Level]] | [[ThatOneSidequest/TalesSeries That One Sidequest]] | [[TheScrappy/TalesSeries The Scrappy]] | [[Woobie/TalesSeries The Woobie]]]]-]
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!![[center: [- [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/TalesSeries Alternative Character Interpretation]] | [[AndTheFandomRejoiced/TalesSeries And The Fandom Rejoiced]] | [[AwesomeBosses/TalesSeries Awesome Bosses]] | [[BrokenBase/TalesSeries Broken Base]] | [[Monster/TalesSeries Complete Monster]] | [[DieForOurShip/TalesSeries Die For Our Ship]] | [[GameBreaker/TalesSeries Game Breaker]] | [[MoralEventHorizon/TalesSeries Moral Event Horizon]] | [[Narm/TalesSeries Narm]] | [[PlayerPunch/TalesSeries Player Punch]] | [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap/TalesSeries Rescued From The Scrappy Heap]] | [[ScrappyMechanic/TalesSeries Scrappy Mechanic]] | [[ThatOneAchievement/TalesSeries That One Achievement]] | [[ThatOneAttack/TalesSeries That One Attack]] | [[ThatOneBoss/TalesSeries That One Boss]] | [[ThatOneLevel/TalesSeries That One Level]] | [[ThatOneSidequest/TalesSeries That One Sidequest]] | [[TheScrappy/TalesSeries The Scrappy]] | [[Woobie/TalesSeries The Woobie]]]]-]
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* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:Miktran, whilst possessing Hugo,]] officially crosses the line when he sends Leon to fight Stahn and the others in the mine, [[spoiler: resulting in Leon's death.]]
** He crosses it much sooner in the remake in Leon's story, either by repeatedly taunting Leon about how weak and powerless he is for obeying him for Marian's sake, or beating his son into a five day coma after Leon hears [[spoiler: Marian tried to commit suicide for his sake.]]
** He crosses it much sooner in the remake in Leon's story, either by repeatedly taunting Leon about how weak and powerless he is for obeying him for Marian's sake, or beating his son into a five day coma after Leon hears [[spoiler: Marian tried to commit suicide for his sake.]]
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* EpilepticTrees: After the remake made Johnny Chaltier's intended owner before he was stolen by Hugo, many fans believe Johnny could hear the Swordians and was merely pretending not to befitting his ObfuscatingStupidity.
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lots of people still like Leon, it's more of a Base Breaking Character situation
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** The orginal Leon is this to much of the Western fandom. Its hard to enjoy a game with adventure when there is a guy holding a shock collar button threatening to kill you all if you don't do as he tells to. Leon regularly belittled and insulted the party telling them how little any of them meant to him, yet [[WhatDoesSheSeeinHim Stahn kept insisting on trying to befriend him.]] [[spoiler: Even Stahn's sympathy toward Leon when he is revived as a zombie feels like CharacterShilling considering all the terrible things he's done toward Stahn in pursuit of his personal ambitions.]] In Japan, there was a number of Japanese exclusive Drama [=CDs=] and other media that toned down a lot of Leon's sociopathy and made him more sympathetic. The remake and Tales of Destiny 2 starring [[spoiler:a redeemed Leon]] were also never translated.
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** The orginal original Leon is this to much of a BaseBreakingCharacter in the Western fandom.fandom versus one of the most popular characters in all of ''Tales'' in Japan. Its hard to enjoy a game with adventure when there is a guy holding a shock collar button threatening to kill you all if you don't do as he tells to. Leon regularly belittled and insulted the party telling them how little any of them meant to him, yet [[WhatDoesSheSeeinHim Stahn kept insisting on trying to befriend him.]] [[spoiler: Even Stahn's sympathy toward Leon when he is revived as a zombie feels like CharacterShilling considering all the terrible things he's done toward Stahn in pursuit of his personal ambitions.]] In Japan, there was a number of Japanese exclusive Drama [=CDs=] and other media that toned down a lot of Leon's sociopathy and made him more sympathetic. The remake and Tales of Destiny 2 starring [[spoiler:a redeemed Leon]] were also never translated.
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* FanNickname: Miktran's second form from the original game is sometimes jokingly called "Chiba Prefecture" and "Chicken Wing" because of its ridiculous design.
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* FanNickname: Miktran's second form from the original game is sometimes jokingly called "Chiba Prefecture" and "Chicken Wing" because of its ridiculous design. The English fandom usually calls it the "GIANT STEAK".
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* FanNickname: Miktran's second form from the original game is sometimes jokingly called "Chiba Prefecture" and "Chicken Wing" because of its ridiculous design.
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** The pink-haired enemy Priest, for her ''very'' [[MsFanservice fanservicey design]] in the remake. She's got quite a lot of (mostly erotic) fanart.
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** The [[BreakoutMookCharacter pink-haired enemy Priest, Priest]], for her ''very'' [[MsFanservice fanservicey design]] in the remake. She's remake; she's got quite a lot of (mostly erotic) fanart.fanart. She was present in the original game too, but everyone there is super-deformed so there wasn't too much to show.
** The [[BreakoutMookCharacter High Priest]] from the remake too, for similar reasons as the Priest. Also for her striking resemblance to [[VisualNovel/PrincessLover Sylvia van Hossen]] and [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Artoria Pendragon]].
** The [[BreakoutMookCharacter High Priest]] from the remake too, for similar reasons as the Priest. Also for her striking resemblance to [[VisualNovel/PrincessLover Sylvia van Hossen]] and [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Artoria Pendragon]].
