History YMMV / TalesOfSymphonia

%%* EvilIsSexy: Pronyma

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: While a major GrowingTheBeard for the series in both gameplay and writing, and is often seen by some as the best game in the series, as time has gone on, ''Symphonia'' tends to be seen as being less polished and refined than it was seen as in 2003. Its story was unique for its time, but some games after can make ''Symphonia'' look dated and not as interesting, while the gameplay can be outright unrefined compared to the many innovations the later titles were able to make (in particular, the lack of full field control in this version of the LMBS tends to drive people crazy). While it still is recommended for newcomers as an entry point to avoid this issue, later games like ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'' or ''VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia'' are often recommended first due to the more developed gameplay and more complex stories. The fact that Symphonia's had [[PortingDisaster porting troubles]] hasn't helped either.

* LowTierLetdown: Sheena is seen as low tier by a lot of players, despite being a fan-favorite character-wise. Her stats are extremely low, and one key skill she learns is not until ''Level 56'', which is right around the time the party is ready for the final dungeon. That said, it’s not uncommon for people to use her anyway, even if it’s just because they like her.

* {{Anvilicious}}: The game's condemnation of racism is as frequent as it is blatant, which can make it seem like the single most important plot point in the game. While it does tackle the idea of discrimination from different angles, and most of these angles are done with some impressive nuance, a player is likely to get the message the game is trying to send well before the game starts really laying it on thickest.

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: While a major GrowingTheBeard for the series in both gameplay and writing, and is often seen by some as the best game in the series, as time has gone on, ''Symphonia'' tends to be seen as being less polished and refined than it was seen as in 2003. Its story was unique for its time, but some games after can make ''Symphonia'' look dated and not as interesting, while the gameplay can be outright unrefined compared to the many innovations the later titles were able to make (in particular, the lack of full field control in this version of the LMBS tends to drive people crazy). While it still is recommended for newcomers as an entry point to avoid this issue, later games like ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'' or ''VideoGame/TalesOfVesperia'' are often recommended first due to the more developed gameplay and more complex stories.

** While it's understandable that Regal still carries around guilt over [[spoiler: Alicia's]] death, he continues going ''on'' about it long after it's been established that he actually [[MercyKill put her out of her misery ]]and Vharley is the real one to blame for it, but Regal keeps insisting he's an unforgivable murderer and refuses to use his hands, even in situations where it could have really been helpful.

* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: In the Tower of Salvation, [[spoiler:the party members sacrifice themselves one by one to get Lloyd through to the end. Wow, I can't believe they just killed off the whole cast like that!]]

** The infamous "Coffee [[MindScrew Mind-fuck]]" has generated a minor meme cluster, with Lloyd being referred to as [[FanNickname Coffee-kun]] on certain ImageBoards, and often being portrayed as an enraged Starbucks employee who offers only two options for an order--"motherfucking hot coffee" or "motherfucking cold coffee," offering none of that "Espresso or Frappucino bullshit."

* {{Anvilicious}}: The game's condemnation of racism is frequent and unsubtle, particularly as the game goes on. There's certainly a lot of repeatedly drumming in the point that discrimination is bad over and over, which can make it seem like the single most important plot point in the game. While it does tackle from different angles to avoid being the same angle each time, a player is likely to understand very early on that yes, racism is bad, well before the game gets even more heavy about it.

* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: As far as sales go, it's the ''VideoGame/TalesSeries'' equivalent to ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'': in Japan, it was a very good, important ''Tales'' game due to the 3D jump and the advances made in game mechanics, and is well-remembered and even stands out a bit, but it doesn't ''completely'' dominate the discussion, even though every ''Tales'' game that followed does owe a little to it. '''Outside''' of Japan (in America in particular), it ''defined'' the entire first generation of international ''Tales'' fandom (outside of the ''tiny'' handful who had played ''Destiny'' and the fan translation of ''Phantasia'') and is ''the'' game people will think of when casually mentioning the series as a whole, largely due to a combination of being released on a console that was starved for [=RPGs=] and ''Magazine/NintendoPower'' magazine hyping it every chance they got.

* GrowingTheBeard: This is pretty much unquestionably where the series really began to find its stride. While ''VideoGame/TalesOfEternia'' had previously used some of these plot and gameplay elements, it was ''Symphonia'' that really fleshed out concepts like the skits and character customization, and is where many of the later games pulled ideas from to flesh out the story. It was also when Tales really ''really'' started to be known for its DeconstructorFleet nature--the Tales series had only ''sort of'' touched upon deconstruction before, but this game brought it into full swing.

** In the [=GameCube=] version, it's possible to trigger [[LimitBreak Holy Judgment]] far more reliably than intended by repeatedly cancelling a cast of Holy Song--as a buffing spell, a normal Holy Song has an ally targeting cursor, while if it would become Holy Judgment it does not. This is fixed in later versions.

** The [=PS2=] version onward removed the skill tree glitch, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xm5HZuLh-Y but one REALLY useful glitch]] somehow slipped by them. By moving the cursor around the artes menu in a certain way, you can scroll PAST the menu and into an almost entirely complete collection of artes for everyone including some DummiedOut ones. While most of these won't actually work, the Mystic Artes, ''[[ExaggeratedTrope can be mapped to a single button]] allowing you to perform them at any time regardless of requirements.'' And since you can spam spell-based Mystic Artes, this means great things for Genis, Raine and Zelos.

** The [=PS2=] version onward removed the skill tree glitch, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xm5HZuLh-Y but one REALLY useful glitch]] somehow slipped by them. By moving the cursor around the artes menu in a certain way, you can scroll PAST the menu and into an almost entirely complete collection of artes for everyone including some DummiedOut ones. But the best part of this glitch is being able to find Mystic Artes in this magic glitched menu, ''[[ExaggeratedTrope being able to map them to a single button]] and being able to perform them at any time regardless of requirements.'' And since you can spam spell-based Mystic Artes, this means great things for Genis, Raine and Zelos. Furthermore it still allows you to map spells from the opposite skill tree, making a great replacement for the skill tree glitch.

* PortingDisaster: While patches later fixed many of its problems, the initial version of the PC port had a number of issues that ranged from annoying to game-breaking. This included typos that weren't present in previous release of the game, text appearing incorrectly or not appearing at all (especially if the language setting was changed), large amounts of lag when saving or opening the menu, frequent crashes, the game outright refusing to load up, and dodgy DRM that created a new .exe file whenever the game was opened. It was also locked at 720p resolution and 30fps, despite the original Gamecube release running at 60fps.

** There's also the scene where Yuan is on the ground and [[spoiler: Mithos]] proceeds to kick him and do an EvilLaugh. It's totally hilarious if you don't continue, and [[spoiler: Mithos]] just keeps kicking Yuan while he's down. The icing on the cake is Lloyd in his idle pose like he's thinking, "Huh, so that's how gravity works..." It's massive spoilers but it can be seen [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwfQNOSgUk&list=PLAV-xzjVBR0XVBQtMzyGmF_MW2Va3yZPs&index=39&nohtml5=False in this video.]]

** Normally, to get Zelos's "Gigolo" title, you must first talk to ''every woman in both worlds'' with Zelos as your display character and his Personal EX skill equipped, so they all give you a gift. Once you've done that, you can get the title from Zelos's butler... or you can skip all that running around and talk to him at a very specific point in the plot, which causes him to ignore the requirements and grant the title for free.

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: So, it turns out [[spoiler: Kratos is Lloyd's biological father.]] He never interacts with the adoptive father, Dirk. The OVA series did have a brief scene of them discussing [[spoiler: Kratos exiling himself to Derris-Kharlan]] in the last episode. Think about the potential for them to talk about how Lloyd was raised, how he grew up, and more depth into Dirk's decision to adopt a human boy (since a dwarf will most likely outlive him and might not understand human customs as well). The game already puts heavy Foreshadowing and emphasis on fatherhood. (Remiel and Colette, Kilia and Dorr, anyone?)

** The 2023 UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch port features missing screen transitions, backgrounds, longer load times than the 2003 original and has random frame drops outside of battle that aren't in any other version, on top of still being locked at 30fps.

* FanNickname: Disco Lord Yggdrasil. See FashionVillainVictim below.
* FashionVictimVillain:
** [[spoiler: Yggdrasil]] and his disco pajamas.
** Then there's Rodyle in his hideous green poncho and Elton John sunglasses.

* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: While the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODrX0Jf4oNw OVA series]] wasn't perfect, it cannot be denied that it had ''gorgeous'' animation, courtesy of Ufotable.

** Mithos Yggdrasil, the games BigBad. On one hand, many players love him for being the EvilCounterpart to Lloyd, and how threatening he is when first introduced. His interactions with Genis, and his past as a victim of racism as a Half-Elf also help give him weight to the story, making him interesting of a threat to want to stop. On the other hand, detractors find him to be overly whiny for the BigBad, and feel that his motives are really shallow for someone setup as a huge threat, especially when you factor in the awkward incestual like relationship he seems to have with his sister, or feel that he doesn't work as the EvilCounterpart for Lloyd due to not having enough of a connection compared to someone like Genis. The main draw stems from how effective he is seen as a villain with his motivation in mind; if you find his goals understandable or sympathetic, he makes for a compelling villain, but if you don't, he comes across as not that compelling of a BigBad due to the way he is characterized.

** Mithos [[spoiler: actually being the BigBad in another form is pretty obvious from the get-go, given the fact he just happens to be found by the party in the ruined Ozette, yet doesn't have a scratch on him in the middle of an enormous fire, looks ''eerily'' similar to Colette, the ''incredibly'' suspicious fact he not only stole a Rheaird without being spotted by the Renegades but has a flute that can summon ''Aska'' and the odd breadth of knowledge he has for a supposedly isolated half-elf.]] Even Zelos comments on how quickly he's accepted by the party and wonders how they can trust him so easily.

** Colette is either the first character benched or put under player control. Many people wrote her off as a bad character but the real flaw is that the AI [[ArtificialStupidity really doesn't know how to use her effectively]] - a player who knows how to properly position her or ''stand back'' when casting can make her into an utter GameBreaker.

* FashionVictimVillain: [[spoiler: Yggdrasil]] and his disco pajamas.

** Just before the final boss fight with [[spoiler: Mithos]], during the cut-scene, if you advance ''any'' of the dialogue before the audio finishes playing, then when the boss [[spoiler:changes into his young form]] he'll glitch out for the rest of the cut-scene. He will just stand there, talking to you, mouth not moving, arms lifeless, body totally inert.
** As mentioned in the main article, the dragon that gives 10,000 Gald upon defeat only does so because of a typo that resulted in an extra zero -- the [[NoExportForYou Japan-only]] UsefulNotes/PlayStation2 UpdatedRerelease has it only give 1,000 Gald instead. ''Chronicles's'' version, being a [=PS3=] port of said UpdatedRerelease, is the same. This unfortunately makes completing the Luin Rebuilding sidequest a ''lot'' more cumbersome than it already was; the next best MoneySpider is the Gold Dragon, which gives ''almost'' as much Gald, but appears in a later, more troublesome dungeon.

** In the [=GameCube=] version, it's possible to trigger [[LimitBreak Holy Judgment]] far more reliably than intended by repeatedly cancelling a cast of Holy Song -- as a buffing spell, a normal Holy Song has an ally targeting cursor, while if it would become Holy Judgment it does not. This is fixed in later versions.
* GrowingTheBeard: This is pretty much unquestionably where the series really began to find its stride. While ''VideoGame/TalesOfEternia'' had previously used some of these plot and gameplay elements, it was ''Symphonia'' that really fleshed out concepts like the skits and character customization, and is where many of the later games pulled ideas from to flesh out the story. It was also when Tales really ''really'' started to be known for its DeconstructorFleet nature - the Tales series had only ''sort of'' touched upon deconstruction before, but this game brought it into full swing.

** During one of their training sessions, Lloyd compares Kratos to an older brother. Coming from Lloyd, its genuine acknowledgement over how he appreciates Kratos' lessons. [[spoiler: Kratos knows full well that Lloyd is actually his son. Imagine how awkward it must feel to have your son compare you to a brother, especially after you've already been trapped in the same youthful body for 4000 years.]]

** Another weird coincidence; in Sybak, [[Anime/TigerAndBunny you can purchase a sword called "Kotetsu" literally right next to the place where you find the recipe for Fried Rice.]] The vice-chief of Mizuho also bears a little resemblance to Kotetsu - and best of all, his name is ''Tiga.''

** During one skit, Raine claims that 'spicy cake would be a breakthrough'. [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild One hundred years after the Great Calamity]], Hyrule has made the same breakthrough.

* HoYay:
** Zelos occasionally acts slashy towards Lloyd. In Japanese, he even refers to Lloyd with the exact same epithet he uses on all his lady loves - "[[http://pics.livejournal.com/madri/pic/003fq5xz hunny]]."
*** It certainly doesn't help that he's one of the ''only'' male characters Zelos shows any real affection for. Other guys might as well be pieces of furniture to him.
** Genis cooks for him, and he totally resents it if he's not chosen to be in Lloyd's group in the times you have to split the party in two. His friendship with Mithos also has elements of adorable ToyShip (especially when Mithos goes "Who do you like better, Lloyd or me?", which actually makes Lloyd react jealously), except... then [[ShooOutTheClowns the whole thing gets much more serious.]]

** The infamous "Coffee [[MindScrew Mind-fuck]]" has generated a minor meme cluster, with Lloyd being referred to as [[FanNickname Coffee-kun]] on certain ImageBoards, and often being portrayed as an enraged Starbucks employee who offers only two options for an order - "motherfucking hot coffee" or "motherfucking cold coffee," offering none of that "Espresso or Frappucino bullshit."

*** The Coffee scene is so memetic, that it get ''three'' references in the "Successors of Hope" novel.

* ShipToShipCombat: The aforementioned Colette vs. Sheena war, plus the numerous gay ships. The various skits and ShipTease moments do ''not'' help one bit. Nor did the sequel, which decided to make ''any'' given pairing happen, depending on a question you ask Lloyd.

* {{Woolseyism}}: Raine and Genis were originally named ''Refill'' and ''Genius'', respectively, in the original Japanese. While the Japanese would find this [[NarmCharm incredibly funny in a good way]] (especially since "Refill" is a healer, thus, she ''refills'' your HP), Namco's editorial team wisely realized that Westerners would find the names eye-bitingly stupid and dropped the "u" from Genis' name to preserve the joke without being too obvious, and came up with a nice equivalent for Raine without being quite as blatant as the Japanese version (that is, her English name invokes the image of a ''soothing rain'' washing away pain).
** Backfiring slightly, as Genis tends to get a rather... inappropriate nickname by some people, and Raine's name is a hilarious/harsher in hindsight moment, considering her intense fear of water.

** The ending becomes a lot less hopeful for people who have played ''VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia'' and realize that [[spoiler:once Yggdrassil's system of mana distribution fell, it eventually lead to exactly what he was trying to prevent -- another great Magitek war that destroyed all advanced human civilization on the planet]].
** As a distant sequel Phantasia ends up the cause of a lot with this. To wit:
*** Half Elves are still being discriminated against by both humans and elves thousands of years later.
*** Elves still live isolated in the forest away from humans and still live in scorn of humans.
*** [[spoiler:After Kratos caused Derris-Kharlan to leave the combined worlds behind, eventually it is brought to the brink of destruction and it's inhabitants send Dhaos to get the Mana Tree to save it, returning to the world of Aselia which is what Sylvarant and Tethe'alla become. This leads to another massively destructive war.]]
*** [[spoiler:The mana cannon is rebuilt by the humans to fight said war. Said mana cannon ends up killing the Mana Tree that Lloyd and the others fought so hard to restore from it's seed. Ultimately averted by the time travel of the Phantasia protagonists but it still happened.]]

* TierInducedScrappy: Due to either the game's AI or how characters' stats are, several characters are placed in different tiers:
** Colette is a mixture of both: Under the AI's control, she will try to get close and melee enemies if they get near her. She's supposed to be a mid-range fighter and spellcaster. Under the player's control, however, her potential is finally seen and is actually a really good character in combat.
** Regal is a case of a character who the AI doesn't utilize that well. Under a skilled player's control, they can make him one of the best characters.
** Sheena is seen as low tier by a lot of players, despite being a fan-favorite character-wise. Her stats are extremely low, and one key skill she learns is not until ''Level 56'', which is right around the time the party is ready for the final dungeon. That said, it’s not uncommon for people to use her anyway, even if it’s just because they like her.

** The 2023 UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch port features missing screen transitions, backgrounds, longer load times than the 2003 original and has random frame drops outside of battle, on top of still being locked at 30fps.

* TaintedByThePreview: When it was revealed that the Remaster, like the Chronicles and PC versions, would be locked at 30 fps, fans were quite displeased and made unfavorable comparisons to the Gamecube version, which ran at 60 fps, questioning why its called a "Remaster" and costs $40 when it runs worse than a two decades-old game. The fact that the Switch version has framerate drops doesn't help either.

!![[center: [- [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/TalesSeries Alternative Character Interpretation]] | [[AndTheFandomRejoiced/TalesSeries And The Fandom Rejoiced]] | [[AwesomeBosses/TalesSeries Awesome Bosses]] | [[BrokenBase/TalesSeries Broken Base]] | [[Monster/TalesSeries Complete Monster]] | [[DieForOurShip/TalesSeries Die For Our Ship]] | [[GameBreaker/TalesSeries Game Breaker]] | [[Narm/TalesSeries Narm]] | [[PlayerPunch/TalesSeries Player Punch]] | [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap/TalesSeries Rescued From The Scrappy Heap]] | [[ScrappyMechanic/TalesSeries Scrappy Mechanic]] | [[ThatOneAchievement/TalesSeries That One Achievement]] | [[ThatOneAttack/TalesSeries That One Attack]] | [[ThatOneBoss/TalesSeries That One Boss]] | [[ThatOneLevel/TalesSeries That One Level]] | [[ThatOneSidequest/TalesSeries That One Sidequest]] | [[TheScrappy/TalesSeries The Scrappy]] | [[Woobie/TalesSeries The Woobie]]]]-]

* MoralEventHorizon:
** Forcystus crosses it by [[spoiler:turning Marble into a monster and forcing Lloyd and Genis to kill her]].
** [[spoiler:Rodyle flooding a passageway where the escaping prisoners are to cut the party off from the Mana Cannon]].
** Magnius isn't quite as bad as the above two, but deserves credit for the sheer ''speed'' at which he crosses the line. In his first appearance, right after his ''first line'', he [[spoiler:[[EstablishingCharacterMoment snaps a civilian's neck for not showing him the proper respect.]]]]
** [[spoiler: Remiel]] crosses it when he [[spoiler: makes Colette into Martel's vessel with no remorse, or care that he is essentially erasing her from existance, and that everything the party learned was all a lie. It is ''satisfying'' to see the bastard get the death by Kratos he deserves.]]
** The Pope crossed it pre-story when he decreed all half-elves who break the law are to be punished by death, then you find out [[spoiler: his ''daughter'' is a half-elf, and he specifically says he initially opposed the anti half-elf laws but became disturbed over how Kate never seems to age.]]
** Vharley crosses it when he uses [[spoiler: Alicia in the Angelus Project, then when it fails, nonchalantly unleashes her on her lover Regal and comments it "worked just fine on another member of her family", utterly uncaring of the devastation he's caused.]]

* FanNickname: Disco Lord Yggdrasil.

* GrowingTheBeard: This is pretty much unquestionably where the series really began to find its stride. While ''VideoGame/TalesOfEternia'' had previously used some of these plot and gameplay elements, it was ''Symphonia'' that really fleshed out concepts like the skits and character customization, and is where many of the later games pulled ideas from to flesh out the story.

* GrowingTheBeard: This is pretty much unquestionably where the series really began to find its stride. While ''VideoGame/TalesOfEternia'' had previously used some of these plot and gameplay elements, it was ''Symphonia'' that really fleshed out concepts like the skits and character customization , and is where many of the later games pulled ideas from to flesh out the story.