History YMMV / StarWars

15th Feb '17 5:08:59 PM JRads47
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[AC:YMMV/StarWarsExpandedUniverse]]

to:

[[AC:YMMV/StarWarsExpandedUniverse]][[AC:[[YMMV/StarWarsExpandedUniverse Expanded Universe]]]]


Added DiffLines:

** Darth Vader is one of the most iconic and feared villains in all of fiction, let alone film, and he certainly has the reputation to back it up.
13th Feb '17 1:35:21 PM TimeLordVictorious
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AuthorSavingThrow: When the franchise was bought by Disney, many expanded universe elements were deemed non-canon and placed under the ''Legends'' continuity. As a result, the non-canonization of many fan-favorite characters, such as Thrawn and Mara Jade, left quite a few fans dissatisfied. Come 2017, and Thrawn has been adapted to the Disney-produced canon series ''Rebels'', while Han Solo's mentor figure, Garris Shrike, is teased by Woody Harrelson as the character he'll be playing in the Han Solo anthology film.

to:

* AuthorSavingThrow: AuthorsSavingThrow: When the franchise was bought by Disney, many expanded universe elements were deemed non-canon and placed under the ''Legends'' continuity. As a result, the non-canonization of many fan-favorite characters, such as Thrawn and Mara Jade, left quite a few fans dissatisfied. Come 2017, and Thrawn has been adapted to the Disney-produced canon series ''Rebels'', while Han Solo's mentor figure, Garris Shrike, is teased by Woody Harrelson as the character he'll be playing in the Han Solo anthology film.
13th Feb '17 1:34:51 PM TimeLordVictorious
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* AuthorSavingThrow: When the franchise was bought by Disney, many expanded universe elements were deemed non-canon and placed under the ''Legends'' continuity. As a result, the non-canonization of many fan-favorite characters, such as Thrawn and Mara Jade, left quite a few fans dissatisfied. Come 2017, and Thrawn has been adapted to the Disney-produced canon series ''Rebels'', while Han Solo's mentor figure, Garris Shrike, is teased by Woody Harrelson as the character he'll be playing in the Han Solo anthology film.
11th Feb '17 7:57:00 PM kensu
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Offical artwork of Jorus C'Baoth (espcially [[http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/af/JorusWiki.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060726162522 this one]]) ended up looking like Old Luke.
10th Feb '17 10:34:17 PM DustSnitch
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* IdiotPlot: A frequent complaint about the prequel trilogy is that the plots need the heroes to be stupid in order to work and ensure the "dark times" in Original Trilogy would be reality.

to:

* IdiotPlot: IdiotPlot:
** Throughout the series. From the Stormtroopers who killed Luke's Aunt and Uncle but didn't, y'know, even bother to do a cursory search of their home to find the droids...which would have shown them there was a third person living there and ''maybe they should wait for him to return in order to acquire the droids and kill him too?'' Or how about the thirty rebel fighters who run into Darth Sidious...and despite the fact that they're pressed for time and have enough combined firepower to turn him into Sith salsa, decide to let their two Jedi's handle it with a lengthy lightsaber battle that ends with one of their Jedi dead? A lightsaber that can cut through anything...being given to a farmboy who has no idea how to safely handle one? Walking armored tanks...that are easy to trip and utterly useless after they've fallen down? Building the most powerful weapon in the galaxy...that has a weakness that can be exploited by a skilled pilot flying an insignificant X-wing?[[note]]This was retconned in ''RogueOne'' to be a trap built in by the Death Star's unwilling designer.[[/note]] The list could fill pages...
**
A frequent complaint about the prequel trilogy in particular is that the plots need the heroes to be stupid in order to work and ensure the "dark times" in Original Trilogy would be reality.
10th Feb '17 8:05:46 PM DustSnitch
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Quite a bit of this in fandom. Anakin Skywalker is a BaseBreakingCharacter (as stated below) - is he a self-involved brat who always whines about how hard his life is or a hapless Pawn of Prophecy, or a psychotic StalkerWithACrush who used the Force to MindRape the woman he was obsessed with, or a poor misunderstood JerkassWoobie who would have been fine if those cold and unfeeling Jedi had just tried harder to understand him? Well, it depends which fans you ask.
** His mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi also gets his fair share and it's arguable that some inconsistencies are the results of {{Retcon}}s in the prequels from things already established (or implied) in the Original Trilogy--and then there are things thrown in from the EU (such as the Literature/JediApprentice novels). For instance, some cite his {{Chessmaster}} tendencies in the original trilogy and see him as self-righteous and authoritarian in the prequels, but the novelization of ''Literature/RevengeOfTheSith'' characterises him as so self-effacing, that he genuinely doesn't realise his true value and abilities as a Jedi (his reaction when the Jedi Council announce that they are sending their "most cunning and most tenacious Master" to deal with General Grievous is both [[CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming touching]] and [[CrowningMomentOfFunny amusing]]. [[spoiler: He asks who they intend to send and then it dawns on him that everyone else is looking at ''him'']]).
*** It could also be inferred that Obi-Wan himself is something of an UnreliableNarrator who tends to emphasise his own failures and relative culpability (which would fit in the self-effacing characterisation mentioned above). For instance, when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Anakin's fall was partially his fault because "I thought I could instruct him as well as Yoda. I was wrong." in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'' it somewhat implies that Obi-Wan must have arrogantly demanded to train someone that Yoda would have been ''willing to train'' and done a better job with. Come ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'' this is shown clearly not to be the case. Obi-Wan is perhaps a little arrogant in the way he demands to train the boy, but it seems clear that a) Yoda was not willing to do the job and b) the demand is driven by his promise to a dying man rather that any belief in his own abilities as a teacher. And there doesn't seem to be any cases where Obi Wan tries to represent his role in events to be bigger or better than is actually seen or to place blame for his problems on others. Maybe he really is that humble and/or shy of taking praise or credit?

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Quite a bit of this in fandom.
**
Anakin Skywalker is a BaseBreakingCharacter (as stated below) - is he a self-involved brat who always whines about how hard his life is or a hapless Pawn of Prophecy, or a psychotic StalkerWithACrush who used the Force to MindRape the woman he was obsessed with, or a poor misunderstood JerkassWoobie who would have been fine if those cold and unfeeling Jedi had just tried harder to understand him? Well, it depends which fans you ask.
** His mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi also gets his fair share and it's arguable that some inconsistencies are the results of {{Retcon}}s in the prequels from things already established (or implied) in the Original Trilogy--and then there are things thrown in from the EU (such as the Literature/JediApprentice novels). For instance, some cite his {{Chessmaster}} tendencies in the original trilogy and see him as self-righteous and authoritarian in the prequels, but the novelization of ''Literature/RevengeOfTheSith'' characterises him as so self-effacing, that he genuinely doesn't realise his true value and abilities as a Jedi (his reaction when the Jedi Council announce that they are sending their "most cunning and most tenacious Master" to deal with General Grievous is both [[CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming touching]] and [[CrowningMomentOfFunny amusing]]. [[spoiler: He asks who they intend to send and then it dawns on him that everyone else is looking at ''him'']]).
***
''him''). It could also be inferred that Obi-Wan himself is something of an UnreliableNarrator who tends to emphasise his own failures and relative culpability (which would fit in the self-effacing characterisation mentioned above). For instance, when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Anakin's fall was partially his fault because "I thought I could instruct him as well as Yoda. I was wrong." in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'' it somewhat implies that Obi-Wan must have arrogantly demanded to train someone that Yoda would have been ''willing to train'' and done a better job with. Come ''Film/ThePhantomMenace'' this is shown clearly not to be the case. Obi-Wan is perhaps a little arrogant in the way he demands to train the boy, but it seems clear that a) Yoda was not willing to do the job and b) the demand is driven by his promise to a dying man rather that any belief in his own abilities as a teacher. And there doesn't seem to be any cases where Obi Wan tries to represent his role in events to be bigger or better than is actually seen or to place blame for his problems on others. Maybe he really is that humble and/or shy of taking praise or credit?



** Anakin's fanbase vs. hatedom is evenly split between those who liked or hated the prequels. Both sides will praise his portrayal in ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' through. Surprisingly, his legendary future self - Darth Vader - has also become a minor example, due to the Disney-era movies [[CharacterShilling shilling his character to some extent]] (''Film/TheForceAwakens'' makes a point of Kylo Ren [[ToughActToFollow not being able to live up to his predecessor]], while ''Film/RogueOne'' paints Vader as a terrifying, larger-than-life figure to an even greater degree than the original trilogy did).
*** For a while, there was some backlash over Darth Vader's page on [[TheWikiRule Wookieepedia]] being merged into [[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker Anakin's page]] for canon reasons, due to prequel Anakin being a BaseBreakingCharacter while original trilogy Vader was one of the most universally beloved characters in the franchise. Possibly in response to this, TheOtherWiki [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader merged both versions of the character into Vader's page]] due to Vader being the more well-known form in popular culture.

to:

** Anakin's fanbase vs. hatedom is evenly split between those who liked or hated the prequels. Both sides will praise his portrayal in ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' through. Surprisingly, his legendary future self - Darth Vader - has also become a minor example, due to the Disney-era movies [[CharacterShilling shilling his character to some extent]] (''Film/TheForceAwakens'' makes a point of Kylo Ren [[ToughActToFollow not being able to live up to his predecessor]], while ''Film/RogueOne'' paints Vader as a terrifying, larger-than-life figure to an even greater degree than the original trilogy did).
***
did). For a while, there was some backlash over Darth Vader's page on [[TheWikiRule Wookieepedia]] being merged into [[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker Anakin's page]] for canon reasons, due to prequel Anakin being a BaseBreakingCharacter while original trilogy Vader was one of the most universally beloved characters in the franchise. Possibly in response to this, TheOtherWiki [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader merged both versions of the character into Vader's page]] due to Vader being the more well-known form in popular culture.



* {{Misblamed}}: Hayden Christensen often comes up as a main culprit for the prequels' quality or lack thereof, with the role arguably becoming a StarDerailingRole, despite that he's done work outside the series [[Film/ShatteredGlass where he received praise for]] and was hardly the only actor affected by George Lucas's touch; Natalie Portman, who would become a major star and an Oscar winner a few years later, said she had trouble getting quality work due to a perception from the prequels that she couldn't act. ''Natalie Portman!'' Couple that with the fact Lucas had always come under fire from his cast as a writer/director (Harrison Ford once told him, "You can type this shit but you sure as hell can't say it!"), and it sometimes feels like Christensen got a raw deal considering the other major actors came out of the prequels just fine.
** In a similar vein, Jake Lloyd ''still'' suffers from this. Putting aside the fact that he already had a huge amount of pressure on him (since TPM was one of the most widely-anticipated movies ever and he'd be responsible for "originating" one of the most recognisable characters in cinema history), nine year old children are generally not amazing actors anyway. And then there were the fans who channelled their opinion that Vader's childhood should not be known about into criticising Lloyd as though it were his idea (even ''before'' the movie came out). Combined with that, a lot of clunky dialogue, and George Lucas' style of directing, he had little chance of being outstanding. Yet the vitriol heaped on him for "ruining" Vader when it was hardly his fault, and that still continues to this day, is one of the largest and most well-known examples of FanDumb and HateDumb in recent memory. It's got to the point where even Creator/MarkHamill has stepped in telling people to cool it.

to:

* {{Misblamed}}: {{Misblamed}}:
**
Hayden Christensen often comes up as a main culprit for the prequels' quality or lack thereof, with the role arguably becoming a StarDerailingRole, despite that he's done work outside the series [[Film/ShatteredGlass where he received praise for]] and was hardly the only actor affected by George Lucas's touch; Natalie Portman, who would become a major star and an Oscar winner a few years later, said she had trouble getting quality work due to a perception from the prequels that she couldn't act. ''Natalie Portman!'' Couple that with the fact Lucas had always come under fire from his cast as a writer/director (Harrison Ford once told him, "You can type this shit but you sure as hell can't say it!"), and it sometimes feels like Christensen got a raw deal considering the other major actors came out of the prequels just fine.
** In a similar vein, Jake Lloyd ''still'' suffers from this. Putting aside the fact that he already had a huge amount of pressure on him (since TPM was one of the most widely-anticipated movies ever and he'd be responsible for "originating" one of the most recognisable characters in cinema history), nine year old children are generally not amazing actors anyway. And then there were the fans who channelled their opinion that Vader's childhood should not be known about into criticising Lloyd as though it were his idea (even ''before'' the movie came out). Combined with that, a lot of clunky dialogue, and George Lucas' style of directing, he had little chance of being outstanding. Yet the vitriol heaped on him for "ruining" Vader when it was hardly his fault, and that still continues to this day, is one of the largest and most well-known examples of FanDumb and HateDumb in recent memory. It's got to the point where even Creator/MarkHamill has stepped in telling people to cool it.



* SoCoolItsAwesome: The original trilogy, particularly ''A New Hope'' and ''The Empire Strikes Back'', recieved critical acclaim and is beloved by many fans of sci-fi and film to the point of being considered must-see films in many people's eyes due to its enormous impact on culture. While not as iconic, the Disney-era films are also widely loved and praised, and some people consider them to be on par with the legendary classic trilogy. While the prequels are more divisive, they have their fans and both trilogies have contributed to forming a very large and passionate fanbase that is still going strong nearly forty years later.

to:

* SoCoolItsAwesome: SoCoolItsAwesome:
**
The original trilogy, particularly ''A New Hope'' and ''The Empire Strikes Back'', recieved critical acclaim and is beloved by many fans of sci-fi and film to the point of being considered must-see films in many people's eyes due to its enormous impact on culture. While not as iconic, the Disney-era films are also widely loved and praised, and some people consider them to be on par with the legendary classic trilogy. While the prequels are more divisive, they have their fans and both trilogies have contributed to forming a very large and passionate fanbase that is still going strong nearly forty years later.



* WinTheCrowd: ''A New Hope'' was initially seen as a bizarre avant-garde action movie when the initial trailers came out, but people went to see the movie anyway, figuring it would at least be SoBadItsGood. The film managed to win the audience over ''[[ExaggeratedTrope with the opening crawl, seconds after the movie started]]'', and kept audiences hooked with the initial blockade runner chase. John William's score probably had something to do with it.

to:

* WinTheCrowd: WinTheCrowd:
**
''A New Hope'' was initially seen as a bizarre avant-garde action movie when the initial trailers came out, but people went to see the movie anyway, figuring it would at least be SoBadItsGood. The film managed to win the audience over ''[[ExaggeratedTrope with the opening crawl, seconds after the movie started]]'', and kept audiences hooked with the initial blockade runner chase. John William's score probably had something to do with it.
7th Feb '17 7:40:11 PM JRads47
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Darth Maul, considered one of the [[EvilIsCool coolest]] characters from the prequels, with his [[DoubleWeapon double-bladed lightsaber]] and [[SugarWiki/CrowningMusicOfAwesome kickass battle theme]]. His appearances in ''The Clone Wars'' and ''Rebels'' have only furthered his reputation, with his fans proclaiming him a character who just won't die.
7th Feb '17 9:10:37 AM momur
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** In a similar vein, Jake Lloyd ''still'' suffers from this. Putting aside the fact that he already had a huge amount of pressure on him (since TPM was one of the most widely-anticipated movies ever and he'd be responsible for "originating" one of the most recognisable characters in cinema history), nine year old children are generally not amazing actors anyway. And then there were the fans who channelled their opinion that Vader's childhood should not be known about into criticising Lloyd as though it were his idea (even ''before'' the movie came out). Combined with that, a lot of clunky dialogue, and George Lucas' style of directing, he had little chance of being outstanding. Yet the vitriol heaped on him for "ruining" Vader when it was hardly his fault, and that still continues to this day, is one of the largest and most well-known examples of FanDumb and HateDumb in recent memory. It's got to the point where even Creator/MarkHamill has stepped in telling people to cool it.
1st Feb '17 7:48:48 PM DustSnitch
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''YMMV/StarWarsBattlefront2015''


Added DiffLines:

* ''YMMV/TheForceUnleashed''
30th Jan '17 5:41:53 AM TheAmazingBlachman
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** This largely depends on whether the work of Lucas' collaborators is of a different order than that of collaborators on most any film. Even UsefulNotes/TheAuteurTheory aficionados admit that directors have a ProductionPosse for a reason. While Lucas wrote and directed ''Film/ANewHope'' by himself, supporters of Kurtz argue that without the latter doing "quality control", the final product would not have turned out as it did. In addition, George Lucas's wife at the time, Marcia Lucas, is another figure argued to have been just as important. After the initial cut assembled by British editor John Jympson turned out to be absolute crap[[note]]A normal phenomenon for any rough cut in film history, it's called "rough" for a reason. Marcia (an experienced editor who worked on ''Film/TaxiDriver'', among other films) recut the film from scratch and that George couldn't make any suggestions until she and co-editors Paul Hirsch and Richard Chew had assembled a complete edit. Which is more or less normal practice for any editor[[/note]] George agreed, resulting in the cut that eventually made cinemas and was a big hit. Likewise the author Creator/AlanDeanFoster, who co-wrote ''From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker'' came up with all of the settings of the Original Trilogy.

to:

** This largely depends on whether the work of Lucas' collaborators is of a different order than that of collaborators on most any film. Even UsefulNotes/TheAuteurTheory aficionados admit that directors have a ProductionPosse for a reason. While Lucas wrote and directed ''Film/ANewHope'' by himself, supporters of Kurtz argue that without the latter doing "quality control", the final product would not have turned out as it did. In addition, George Lucas's wife at the time, Marcia Lucas, is another figure argued to have been just as important. After the initial cut assembled by British editor John Jympson turned out to be absolute crap[[note]]A normal phenomenon for any rough cut in film history, it's called "rough" for a reason. Marcia (an experienced editor who worked on ''Film/TaxiDriver'', among other films) recut the film from scratch and that George couldn't make any suggestions until she and co-editors Paul Hirsch and Richard Chew had assembled a complete edit. Which is more or less normal practice for any editor[[/note]] George agreed, agreed to have her make a cut of the film, resulting in the cut that eventually made cinemas and was a big hit. Likewise the author Creator/AlanDeanFoster, who co-wrote ''From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker'' came up with all of the settings of the Original Trilogy.
This list shows the last 10 events of 686. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.StarWars