History YMMV / StarWars

11th Dec '17 1:48:32 PM Anddrix
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* LoveItOrHateIt:
** The prequels are either flawed but serviceable films or a blight on the series. How intensely one thinks of it varies of course on the person and is one of the biggest dividing points among fans for a reason.
** While more praised overall, the Disney-era films either saved ''Star Wars'' and reminded fans why they love it, or stripped away Lucas' creativity and artistic visions in favor of soullessly PanderingToTheBase and using derivative and predictable stories and ideas.
8th Dec '17 4:13:07 PM DaFlabbagasta
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* TooCoolToLive: Too many to count. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, Count Dooku, General Grievous, Darth Maul, [[spoiler: Han Solo]]. Awesomely subverted by Boba Fett and Darth Maul who were simply ''too cool to'' '''die''' and were retconned as having survived their deaths -- Boba managed to fight his way out of the Sarlacc; Darth Maul somehow made his way to the planet Lotho Minor and eked out an existence there until his brother, Savage Opress, found him and eventually outlived Savage and fought Obi-Wan as an old man on Tatooine [[spoiler: before dying peacefully in his arms when he learns of the ChosenOne being protected by Obi-Wan]].

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* TooCoolToLive: Too many to count. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, Yoda, Savage Oppress, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, Pre Viszla, The Zillo Beast, Count Dooku, General Grievous, Darth Maul, [[spoiler: Han Solo]]. Solo]], and almost the entire Jedi Council. Awesomely subverted by Boba Fett and Darth Maul who were simply ''too cool to'' '''die''' and were retconned as having survived their deaths -- Boba managed to fight his way out of the Sarlacc; Darth Maul somehow made his way to the planet Lotho Minor and eked out an existence there until his brother, Savage Opress, brother found him and eventually outlived Savage and fought Obi-Wan as an old man on Tatooine [[spoiler: before dying peacefully in his arms when he learns of the ChosenOne being protected by Obi-Wan]].
8th Dec '17 11:49:14 AM JulianLapostat
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*** Likewise, [[http://www.cracked.com/article_25389_6-ways-star-wars-movies-were-total-nightmare-to-make.html some have even claimed that Lucas]] can't direct films based on remarks that Lucas gave only vague remarks and didn't discuss motivations with actors on set or so on. This is likewise standard among all film-makers, for instance, Creator/AlfredHitchcock during production never discussed character motivations, and would prefer to shoot the breeze with his stars in-between takes rather than discuss the scenes. The usual stock response for directors is that issues of motivations and characterization happen in script and rehearsals but ''not'' during the shooting of the film, since it's an expensive process racing against a ticking clock, and that stopping a production so that an actor can get in the mood has created more nightmares than you can shake a fist at[[note]]It's the reason why Creator/MarilynMonroe was nearly unemployable in the late-'50s and early-'60s since her ill-advised decision to study MethodActing under Lee Strasberg more or less ruined and delayed her genuine craft and talent, while also getting her hooked on the sleeping pills that killed her[[/note]].

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*** Likewise, [[http://www.cracked.com/article_25389_6-ways-star-wars-movies-were-total-nightmare-to-make.html some Some have even claimed that Lucas]] can't direct films based on remarks that Lucas gave only vague remarks and didn't discuss motivations with actors on set or so on. This is likewise standard among all film-makers, for instance, Creator/AlfredHitchcock during production never discussed character motivations, and would prefer to shoot the breeze with his stars in-between takes rather than discuss the scenes. The usual stock response for directors is that issues of motivations and characterization happen in script and rehearsals but ''not'' during the shooting of the film, since it's an expensive process racing against a ticking clock, and that stopping a production so that an actor can get in the mood has created more nightmares than you can shake a fist at[[note]]It's the reason why Creator/MarilynMonroe was nearly unemployable in the late-'50s and early-'60s since her ill-advised decision to study MethodActing under Lee Strasberg more or less ruined and delayed her genuine craft and talent, while also getting her hooked on the sleeping pills that killed her[[/note]]. Furthermore, Lucas made a name for himself directing ''Film/THX1138'' and ''Film/AmericanGraffiti'', meaning he had the best profile of all directors to work on Star Wars until the Disney Era.
8th Dec '17 11:46:35 AM JulianLapostat
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*** Many have also cited the fact that Lucas can't write dialogues, citing the complaints made by many actors, such as Harrison Ford and others deprecating it as corny. This again ignores the context of the production of ''A New Hope''. What actors were deprecating was not merely the dialogue but the very nature of the project itself. The reason Lucas had so much trouble on ''A New Hope'' is that the very concept of the film, i.e. a BMovie Serial GenreThrowback but done with higher production values was considered absurd, as did most of Lucas' collaborators and producers, and what upset many of them was that Lucas was playing the genre straight rather than submitting it to a Creator/MelBrooks' style parody. Lucas' {{Homage}} to Flash Gordon serials was seen with bemused contempt because those films were highly disreputable and Lucas was the only one who envisioned that the Serial could be revived via {{Reconstruction}} and higher production values. And this by itself is more than enough among auteurists to make Lucas the main creator of ''Star Wars''[[note]]As auteurists note, directors primarily determine the vision, tone and sentiment by which audiences experience the work. Without ''Star Wars'' it would not be possible for anyone to take subject material seriously enough that one could call dialogue in the genre corny...since to most people, the genre was corny to start with, and taking it seriously was even cornier[[/note]]. It's also important to note that [[LukeIAmYourFather the most famous lines of dialogue]] in the entire ''Star Wars'' media, which most would argue is [[CerebusRetcon the least corniest moment]] in the entire series, was written entirely by Lucas alone.

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*** Many have also cited the fact that Lucas can't write dialogues, citing the complaints made by many actors, such as Harrison Ford and others deprecating it as corny. This again ignores the context of the production of ''A New Hope''. What actors were deprecating was not merely the dialogue but the very nature of the project itself. The reason Lucas had so much trouble on ''A New Hope'' is that the very concept of the film, i.e. a BMovie Serial GenreThrowback but done with higher production values was considered absurd, as did most of Lucas' collaborators and producers, and what upset many of them was that Lucas was playing the genre straight rather than submitting it to a Creator/MelBrooks' style parody. Lucas' {{Homage}} to Flash Gordon serials was seen with bemused contempt because those films were highly disreputable and Lucas was the only one who envisioned that the Serial could be revived via {{Reconstruction}} and higher production values. And this by itself is more than enough among auteurists to make Lucas the main creator of ''Star Wars''[[note]]As auteurists note, directors primarily determine the vision, tone and sentiment by which audiences experience the work. Without ''Star Wars'' it would not be possible for anyone to take subject material seriously enough that one could call dialogue in the genre corny...since to most people, the genre was corny to start with, and taking it seriously was even cornier[[/note]]. It's also important to note that [[LukeIAmYourFather the most famous lines of dialogue]] in the entire ''Star Wars'' media, which most would argue is [[CerebusRetcon the least corniest moment]] in the entire series, was written entirely by Lucas alone. alone.
*** Likewise, [[http://www.cracked.com/article_25389_6-ways-star-wars-movies-were-total-nightmare-to-make.html some have even claimed that Lucas]] can't direct films based on remarks that Lucas gave only vague remarks and didn't discuss motivations with actors on set or so on. This is likewise standard among all film-makers, for instance, Creator/AlfredHitchcock during production never discussed character motivations, and would prefer to shoot the breeze with his stars in-between takes rather than discuss the scenes. The usual stock response for directors is that issues of motivations and characterization happen in script and rehearsals but ''not'' during the shooting of the film, since it's an expensive process racing against a ticking clock, and that stopping a production so that an actor can get in the mood has created more nightmares than you can shake a fist at[[note]]It's the reason why Creator/MarilynMonroe was nearly unemployable in the late-'50s and early-'60s since her ill-advised decision to study MethodActing under Lee Strasberg more or less ruined and delayed her genuine craft and talent, while also getting her hooked on the sleeping pills that killed her[[/note]].
7th Dec '17 3:47:02 PM DastardlyDemolition
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* TooCoolToLive: Too many to count. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, Count Dooku, General Grievous, Darth Maul, [[spoiler: Han Solo]]. Awesomely subverted by Boba Fett and Darth Maul who were simply ''too cool to'' '''die''' and were retconned as having survived their deaths -- Boba managed to fight his way out of the Sarlacc; Darth Maul somehow made his way to the planet Lotho Minor and eked out an existence there until his brother found him.

to:

* TooCoolToLive: Too many to count. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, Count Dooku, General Grievous, Darth Maul, [[spoiler: Han Solo]]. Awesomely subverted by Boba Fett and Darth Maul who were simply ''too cool to'' '''die''' and were retconned as having survived their deaths -- Boba managed to fight his way out of the Sarlacc; Darth Maul somehow made his way to the planet Lotho Minor and eked out an existence there until his brother brother, Savage Opress, found him.him and eventually outlived Savage and fought Obi-Wan as an old man on Tatooine [[spoiler: before dying peacefully in his arms when he learns of the ChosenOne being protected by Obi-Wan]].
5th Dec '17 11:16:58 PM JulianLapostat
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** The Disney Star Wars films have also gotten criticism. ''Film/RogueOne'' was a ContestedSequel because it more or less provided an ObviousRulePatch on the "flaw in the Death Star" plot of the first film, while also re-contextualizing important scenes in ''Film/ANewHope'' (i.e. Darth Vader's first meeting with Leia) in an unintentionally absurd light. It's a fact [[http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-disney-cant-stop-screwing-up-star-wars/ the producers behind the series]] openly admit that they don't really have a full long-term plan for a single story to tell, with actors admitting that [[https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-adam-driver-kylo-ren-mysteries/ they don't entirely plan to reveal]] all mysteries for the characters so as to maintain and increase FanficFuel, and as such a number of viewers believe that ''Star Wars'' is no longer a real saga or mythos, but merely a set of wheels to spin [[http://www.reelviews.net/reelthoughts/reelthought_1511800876 until the well entirely dries]].

to:

** The Disney Star Wars films have also gotten criticism. ''Film/RogueOne'' was a ContestedSequel because it more or less provided an ObviousRulePatch on the "flaw in the Death Star" plot of the first film, while also re-contextualizing important scenes in ''Film/ANewHope'' (i.e. Darth Vader's first meeting with Leia) in an unintentionally absurd light. It's a fact [[http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-disney-cant-stop-screwing-up-star-wars/ the producers behind the series]] openly admit that they don't really have a full long-term plan for a single story to tell, with actors admitting that [[https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-adam-driver-kylo-ren-mysteries/ they don't entirely plan to reveal]] all mysteries for the characters so as to maintain and increase FanficFuel, FanficFuel. Even Creator/MarkHamill, the only actor to believe in Lucas' vision from the very beginning, and one of the few cast members intimate with Creator/GeorgeLucas admitted that he struggled with ''The Last Jedi'' [[https://www.cbr.com/mark-hamill-rian-johnson-luke-skywalker-views/ over Rian Johnson's vision of the character]] which he saw as entirely different from his. As such a number of viewers believe that ''Star Wars'' is no longer a real saga or mythos, but merely a set of wheels to spin [[http://www.reelviews.net/reelthoughts/reelthought_1511800876 until the well entirely dries]].
5th Dec '17 2:00:34 PM Stevebob
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Added DiffLines:

** Darth Vader in ''Revenge of the Sith'' is viewed as such by some people, at least until that [[ManOnFire little]] [[FacialHorror incident]] on Mustafar...
4th Dec '17 10:40:49 PM JulianLapostat
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** The Disney Star Wars films have also gotten criticism. ''Film/RogueOne'' was a ContestedSequel because it more or less provided an ObviousRulePatch on the "flaw in the Death Star" plot of the first film, while also re-contextualizing important scenes in ''Film/ANewHope'' (i.e. Darth Vader's first meeting with Leia) in an unintentionally absurd light. It's a fact [[http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-disney-cant-stop-screwing-up-star-wars/ the producers behind the series]] openly admit that they don't really have a full long-term plan for a single story to tell, with actors admitting that [[https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-adam-driver-kylo-ren-mysteries/ they don't entirely plan to reveal]] all mysteries for the characters so as to maintain and increase FanficFuel, and as such a number of viewers believe that ''Star Wars'' is no longer a real saga or mythos, but merely a set of wheels to spin until the well entirely dries.

to:

** The Disney Star Wars films have also gotten criticism. ''Film/RogueOne'' was a ContestedSequel because it more or less provided an ObviousRulePatch on the "flaw in the Death Star" plot of the first film, while also re-contextualizing important scenes in ''Film/ANewHope'' (i.e. Darth Vader's first meeting with Leia) in an unintentionally absurd light. It's a fact [[http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-disney-cant-stop-screwing-up-star-wars/ the producers behind the series]] openly admit that they don't really have a full long-term plan for a single story to tell, with actors admitting that [[https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-adam-driver-kylo-ren-mysteries/ they don't entirely plan to reveal]] all mysteries for the characters so as to maintain and increase FanficFuel, and as such a number of viewers believe that ''Star Wars'' is no longer a real saga or mythos, but merely a set of wheels to spin [[http://www.reelviews.net/reelthoughts/reelthought_1511800876 until the well entirely dries.dries]].
4th Dec '17 10:36:28 PM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

* TheChrisCarterEffect: A number of people feel this way about the Star Wars, even when Lucas was directing it.
** It's known for a fact that Lucas most certainly didn't plan out any saga in any full detail when he made ''Star Wars'' (which was retroactively titled ''Episode IV: A New Hope''), that the iconic twist of ''The Empire Strikes Back'' only exists because Lucas finally decided to rewrite the draft of the screenplay that Leigh Brackett worked on, and that the conclusion of ''Return of the Jedi'' was more or less a hasty IndyPloy to TorchTheFranchiseAndRun, and that Lucas' re-edits is primarily geared to creating (successfully one might add) a more continuous saga than actually existed. Lucas' prequels were divisive because it was torn between expanding elements of WorldBuilding (midichlorians, new planets) while also painfully putting the thumbs on the scales of Anakin Skywalker's melodramatic descent into the Dark Side, which failed to convince most viewers that the Anakin Skywalker of the prequels was continuous with the authoritative, charismatic, and cool Darth Vader of the original films.
** The Disney Star Wars films have also gotten criticism. ''Film/RogueOne'' was a ContestedSequel because it more or less provided an ObviousRulePatch on the "flaw in the Death Star" plot of the first film, while also re-contextualizing important scenes in ''Film/ANewHope'' (i.e. Darth Vader's first meeting with Leia) in an unintentionally absurd light. It's a fact [[http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-disney-cant-stop-screwing-up-star-wars/ the producers behind the series]] openly admit that they don't really have a full long-term plan for a single story to tell, with actors admitting that [[https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-adam-driver-kylo-ren-mysteries/ they don't entirely plan to reveal]] all mysteries for the characters so as to maintain and increase FanficFuel, and as such a number of viewers believe that ''Star Wars'' is no longer a real saga or mythos, but merely a set of wheels to spin until the well entirely dries.
30th Nov '17 2:28:47 PM DaFlabbagasta
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** While the Prequel Trilogy is still regarded as inferior to the original films, stances on them have gradually softened over time, with many pointing out that while flawed, they do still have many positive attributes and do contain several good ideas that admittedly needed to be roughed out a little more. It hasn't hurt that both canon and non-canon EU titles as well as fanworks have been able to make good use of elements and characters from the Prequels. Flat-out [[FanonDiscontinuity prequel denial]] is more or less dead as of TheNewTens, with even fans who hate them as films accepting (albeit occasionally reluctantly) them as part of the Saga.
** Likewise, prequel-era Anakin has fallen into this; over time and thanks to Creator/HaydenChristensen being recognized as a decent actor who was given poor direction by Lucas (who's no longer associated with the franchise), as well as Anakin's universally praised portrayal in ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'', the younger Anakin isn't as vocally hated as he once was, and many people find his character arc in the prequels to be decent, sympathetic, and mostly brought down by poor direction and acting. This was somewhat helped by the introduction of Kylo Ren, who can be seen as [[SelfDeprecation a self-aware parody]] of Anakin's {{wangst}}y nature. Nine-year-old ''Phantom Menace'' Anakin is as hated as ever, though.

to:

** While the Prequel Trilogy is still regarded as inferior to the original films, stances on them have gradually softened over time, with many pointing out that while flawed, they do still have many positive attributes and do contain several good ideas that admittedly needed to be roughed out a little more. It hasn't hurt that both canon and non-canon EU titles as well as fanworks have been able to make good use of elements and characters from the Prequels. Flat-out [[FanonDiscontinuity prequel denial]] is more or less dead as of TheNewTens, with even fans who hate them as films accepting (albeit occasionally reluctantly) them as part of the Saga.
** Likewise, prequel-era
Prequel-era Anakin has fallen into this; over time and thanks to Creator/HaydenChristensen being recognized as a decent actor who was given poor direction by Lucas (who's no longer associated with the franchise), as well as Anakin's universally praised portrayal in ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'', the younger Anakin isn't as vocally hated as he once was, and many people find his character arc in the prequels to be decent, sympathetic, and mostly brought down by poor direction and acting. This was somewhat helped by the introduction of Kylo Ren, who can be seen as [[SelfDeprecation a self-aware parody]] of Anakin's {{wangst}}y nature. Nine-year-old ''Phantom Menace'' Anakin is as hated as ever, though.
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