Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / StarTrekInsurrection

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not exactly true, given that this plan would have been facilitated through dominion allies.


** A more subtle one, but without the potential advances in healing technology that the planet's radiation could provide, the casualties of the Dominion War that was ongoing at the time were probably worse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still be in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of [=DS9=] hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.

to:

* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still be in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This The lack of acknowledgement on this was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of [=DS9=] hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of [=DS9=] hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.

to:

* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still be in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of [=DS9=] hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of DS9 hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.

to:

* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of DS9 [=DS9=] hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AngstWhatAngst: At the point where Worf is at in his ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'' arc, he's just become a widow due to the death of Jadzia Dax and would still in the grieving process in the subsequent season. This was the result of [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] ExecutiveMeddling, as the sixth season of DS9 hadn't aired in the UK yet, meaning Jadzia's death would've been a spoiler for international audiences. Still, the fact that Worf does not seem even slightly despondent throughout the film is very odd.

Added: 384

Changed: 179

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The Bolian scientist Hars Adislo approaching Picard on the topic of thermionic transconductance; Picard excuses himself to attend to other matters. It is never brought up again.

to:

* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: BigLippedAlligatorMoment:
**
The Bolian scientist Hars Adislo approaching Picard on the topic of thermionic transconductance; Picard excuses himself to attend to other matters. It is never brought up again. again.
** The "Have you noticed how your boobs have started to firm up?" scene. Data repeating it to Worf doesn't even merit a punchline reaction, since they get interrupted by drone fire immediately afterwards.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* RonTheDeathEater: A lot of people found the Ba'ku repugnant because they didn't want to share the medical benefits their planet could provide. Supposedly they're preventing medical benefits that could save billions of lives from the Dominion, but considering the people who came up with the "destroy the planet" plan worked ''with'' the Dominion, maybe trusting them at their word isn't the best idea.

to:

* RonTheDeathEater: A lot of people found the Ba'ku repugnant because they didn't want to share the medical benefits their planet could provide. Supposedly they're preventing medical benefits that could save billions of lives from the Dominion, but considering the people who came up with the "destroy the planet" plan worked ''with'' the Dominion, maybe trusting them at their word isn't the best idea.idea, especially since no one seemed to think they could just set up medical facilities on the opposite side of the planet.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MisaimedFandom: While Dougherty's motives are ultimately sympathetic, it's rather disconcerting for some that so many fans of the franchise see his plans - i.e., invading an occupied planet, kidnapping the entire population and stealing its resources in a way that will make the planet uninhabitable, and possibly completely destroying whatever made the resource so valuable in the first place - as completely reasonable simply because he has a couple of legal loopholes on his side. Most likely because, other than the ethical issues around the relocation, ''nobody'' in the actual movie even questions his assertion that the plan will work and save ''billions''.

to:

* MisaimedFandom: While Dougherty's motives are ultimately sympathetic, it's rather disconcerting for some that so many fans of the franchise see his plans - i.e., invading an occupied planet, kidnapping the entire population and stealing its resources in a way that will make the planet uninhabitable, and possibly completely destroying whatever made the resource so valuable in the first place - as completely reasonable simply because he has a couple of legal loopholes on his side. Most likely because, other than the ethical issues around the relocation, ''nobody'' in the actual movie even questions his assertion that the plan will work and save ''billions''.actually work, despite the fact it was conceived of by known allies of the Dominion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cut trope


* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: About the planet's rejuvenating powers: "Finders keepers, losers weepers".

Changed: 1003

Removed: 644

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The Bolian scientist Hars Adislo approaching Picard on the topic of thermionic transconductance; Picard excuses himself to attend to other matters. It is never brought up again. Even [[TheWikiRule Memory Alpha]] has no information whatsoever on what was the purpose of the character.

to:

* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The Bolian scientist Hars Adislo approaching Picard on the topic of thermionic transconductance; Picard excuses himself to attend to other matters. It is never brought up again. Even [[TheWikiRule Memory Alpha]] has no information whatsoever on what was the purpose of the character.



* DesignatedHero: The movie perches how perfect the Bak'u are and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but they're hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. As pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, [[ImmortalityImmorality choosing immortality over helping save countless lives]], then they would have become the villains of the story.

to:

* DesignatedHero: The movie perches how perfect the Bak'u are and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but they're hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. As pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, [[ImmortalityImmorality choosing immortality over helping save countless lives]], then they would have become the villains of the story.



* MarySueTopia: The Bak'u, who live on a planet with fountain-of-youth powers and espouse a technology-free society. They still use all pre-industrial technology though, making them not as "[[YouKeepUsingThatWord primitive]]" as they'd like to claim. Website/SFDebris tore them apart in his review, pointing out how improbably clean and orderly everything and everyone is, especially since our modern standards of cleanliness are derived from technological advancements.

to:

* MarySueTopia: The Bak'u, who live on a planet with fountain-of-youth powers and espouse a technology-free society. They still use all pre-industrial technology though, making them not as "[[YouKeepUsingThatWord primitive]]" as they'd like to claim. Website/SFDebris tore them apart in his review, pointing out how improbably clean and orderly everything and everyone is, especially since our modern standards of cleanliness are derived from technological advancements.



* OneSceneWonder: The blue-skinned Bolian theorist Hans Adislo, whose brief exchange with Captain Picard over thermionic transconductance [[IncrediblyLamePun comes out of the blue]] and is then completely forgotten. In their joint review of the film, the Nostalgia Critic and Linkara are completely baffled at the utter pointlessness of the character.

to:

* OneSceneWonder: The blue-skinned Bolian theorist Hans Adislo, whose brief exchange with Captain Picard over thermionic transconductance [[IncrediblyLamePun comes out of the blue]] and is then completely forgotten. In their joint review of the film, the Nostalgia Critic and Linkara are completely baffled at the utter pointlessness of the character.



* SoOkayItsAverage: Of all the "bad" ''Franchise/StarTrek'' films, perhaps the one that has the fewest defenders ''or'' detractors, on account of being so ineffectual and forgettable. Website/SFDebris sums up popular opinion quite succinctly:
-->''It isn't loved like [[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan Two]], popular like [[Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome Four]], prescient like [[Film/StarTrekVITheUndiscoveredCountry Six]], exciting like [[Film/StarTrekFirstContact Eight]]. It doesn't have people rushing to defend it, saying it's cerebral like [[Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture One]], significant like [[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock Three]], ambitious like [[Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier Five]], landmark like [[Film/StarTrekGenerations Seven]], or theatrical like [[Film/StarTrekNemesis Ten]]. ''Insurrection'' stands alone: bad enough to be hated, but not bad enough to be loved.''

to:

* SoOkayItsAverage: Of all the "bad" ''Franchise/StarTrek'' films, perhaps the one that has the fewest defenders ''or'' detractors, on account of being so ineffectual and forgettable. Website/SFDebris sums up popular opinion quite succinctly:
-->''It isn't loved like [[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan Two]], popular like [[Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome Four]], prescient like [[Film/StarTrekVITheUndiscoveredCountry Six]], exciting like [[Film/StarTrekFirstContact Eight]]. It doesn't have people rushing to defend it, saying it's cerebral like [[Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture One]], significant like [[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock Three]], ambitious like [[Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier Five]], landmark like [[Film/StarTrekGenerations Seven]], or theatrical like [[Film/StarTrekNemesis Ten]]. ''Insurrection'' stands alone: bad enough to be hated, but not bad enough to be loved.''



** The Federation were currently operating in a time of war against the Dominion and they are ''losing''. More than one reviewer has noted that it wouldn't have been too hard to have the crew become divided over whether removing 600 people to potentially save ''billions'' is the morally right option (Website/SFDebris in fact suggested this as a better alternative. He especially thought it was incredible Geordi would be so blase about giving up his natural sight).

to:

** The Federation were currently operating in a time of war against the Dominion and they are ''losing''. More than one reviewer has noted that it wouldn't have been too hard to have the crew become divided over whether removing 600 people to potentially save ''billions'' is the morally right option (Website/SFDebris in fact suggested this as a better alternative. He especially thought it was incredible Geordi would be so blase about giving up his natural sight).option.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* ContestedSequel: Like many other major franchise entries from the 1990s and 2000s, the film has benefited from the trend towards works that were once criticised for their StrictlyFormula nature being more positively re-evaluated for that very same reason, since their refusal to take creative risks means they can be re-watched without having to worry about any controversial moments that have franchise-wide implications. The film's lacking anything as hot-button as Kirk's death and the destruction of the ''Enterprise''-D in ''Film/StarTrekGenerations'', or Data's death in ''Film/StarTrekNemesis'', along with it being the last live-action TNG-related work to date to maintain a LighterAndSofter feel, have helped improve its standing among fandom, and while its {{anvilicious}} "rural simplicity" message and the poor handling of the moral dilemma that's central to the plot will almost certainly prevent it from ever being universally liked, it's at least helped move it to being a divisive sequel, instead of one where the universal reaction was indifference at best, derision at worst.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ContestedSequel: Like many other major franchise entries from the 1990s and 2000s, the film has benefited from the trend towards works that were once criticised for their StrictlyFormula nature being more positively re-evaluated for that very same reason, since their refusal to take creative risks means they can be re-watched without having to worry about any controversial moments that have franchise-wide implications. The film's lacking anything as hot-button as Kirk's death and the destruction of the ''Enterprise''-D in ''Film/StarTrekGenerations'', or Data's death in ''Film/StarTrekNemesis'', along with it being the last live-action TNG-related work to date to maintain a LighterAndSofter feel, have helped improve its standing among fandom, and while its {{anvilicious}} "rural simplicity" message and the poor handling of the moral dilemma that's central to the plot will almost certainly prevent it from ever being universally liked, it's at least helped move it to being a divisive sequel, instead of one where the universal reaction was indifference at best, derision at worst.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Relatedly, the concept of the "flying holodeck" also reveals some of the behind-the-scenes thinking at work: the movie is ''meant'' to be something of a DarkReprise of the fairly well-regarded ''TNG'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS7E12Homeward Homeward]]", wherein a group of people were rescued from a dying world, in technical violation of the Prime Directive, but which Worf's human brother can't accept ethically (and a lot of viewers sided with him). The movie is meant to show exactly ''why'' the PD exists, especially in these circumstances, and show how, if Starfleet didn't have such a directive as a core part of their operational culture, all kinds of abuses of the less-advanced would be possible, even using the ''very same'' technique Nikolai employed in "Homeward". Unfortunately, as noted, the rest of the setup for the plot badly undermines the message.

to:

** Relatedly, the concept of the "flying holodeck" also reveals some of the behind-the-scenes thinking at work: the movie is ''meant'' to be something of a DarkReprise of the fairly well-regarded ''TNG'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS7E12Homeward Homeward]]", wherein a group of people were rescued from a dying world, in technical violation of the Prime Directive, but which Worf's human brother can't accept ethically (and a lot of viewers sided with him). The movie is meant to show exactly ''why'' the PD exists, especially in these circumstances, and show how, if Starfleet didn't have such a directive as a core part of their operational culture, all kinds of abuses of the less-advanced would be possible, even using if one uses the ''very same'' "humane" technique Nikolai employed in "Homeward". Unfortunately, as noted, the rest of the setup for the plot badly undermines the message.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Relatedly, the concept of the "flying holodeck" also reveals some of the behind-the-scenes thinking at work: the movie is ''meant'' to be something of a DarkReprise of the fairly well-regarded ''TNG'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS7E12Homeward Homeward]]", wherein a group of people were rescued from a dying world, in technical violation of the Prime Directive, but which Worf's human brother can't accept ethically (and a lot of viewers sided with him). The movie is meant to show exactly ''why'' the PD exists, especially in these circumstances, and show how, if Starfleet didn't have such a directive as a core part of their operational culture, all kinds of abuses of the less-advanced would be possible. Unfortunately, as noted, the rest of the setup for the plot badly undermines the message.

to:

** Relatedly, the concept of the "flying holodeck" also reveals some of the behind-the-scenes thinking at work: the movie is ''meant'' to be something of a DarkReprise of the fairly well-regarded ''TNG'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS7E12Homeward Homeward]]", wherein a group of people were rescued from a dying world, in technical violation of the Prime Directive, but which Worf's human brother can't accept ethically (and a lot of viewers sided with him). The movie is meant to show exactly ''why'' the PD exists, especially in these circumstances, and show how, if Starfleet didn't have such a directive as a core part of their operational culture, all kinds of abuses of the less-advanced would be possible.possible, even using the ''very same'' technique Nikolai employed in "Homeward". Unfortunately, as noted, the rest of the setup for the plot badly undermines the message.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Relatedly, the concept of the "flying holodeck" also reveals some of the behind-the-scenes thinking at work: the movie is ''meant'' to be something of a DarkReprise of the fairly well-regarded ''TNG'' episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS7E12Homeward Homeward]]", wherein a group of people were rescued from a dying world, in technical violation of the Prime Directive, but which Worf's human brother can't accept ethically (and a lot of viewers sided with him). The movie is meant to show exactly ''why'' the PD exists, especially in these circumstances, and show how, if Starfleet didn't have such a directive as a core part of their operational culture, all kinds of abuses of the less-advanced would be possible. Unfortunately, as noted, the rest of the setup for the plot badly undermines the message.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Riker's fleeting reference to the Son'a producing large quantities of ketracel white is the only thing in the movie that hints at the fact that they're Dominion allies. For those who don't understand the significance of the reference, it can end up making the Son'a seem more sympathetic than they're intended to be -- and even if you ''do'' understand the reference, it still takes a leap in logic to register that they're actual allies of the Dominion instead of, for instance, someone just carrying out business with one side of a war they have no stake in.

to:

** Riker's fleeting reference to the Son'a producing large quantities of ketracel white white, the narcotic used to control the Jem'Hadar, is the only thing in the movie that hints at the fact that they're Dominion allies. For those who don't understand the significance of the reference, it can end up making the Son'a seem more sympathetic than they're intended to be -- and even if you ''do'' understand the reference, it still takes a leap in logic to register that they're actual allies of the Dominion instead of, for instance, someone just carrying out business with one side of a war they have no stake in. One could justifiably argue that the Dominion are clearly evil and that anyone who would even conduct business with them ought to be considered an enemy of the Federation, but the movie doesn't bother establishing ''that'' either.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Riker's fleeting reference to the Son'a producing large quantities of ketracel white is the only thing in the movie that hints at the fact that they're Dominion allies. For those who don't understand the significance of the reference, it can end up making the Son'a seem more sympathetic than they're intended to be -- and even if you ''do'' understand the reference, it still takes a leap in logic to register that they're actual allies of the Dominion instead of, for instance, someone just carrying out business with one side of a war they have no stake in.

Changed: 938

Removed: 1065

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Natter and no redirecting to other parts of the page.


* EsotericHappyEnding: The movie ends with [[PerfectPacifistPeople the]] [[SpaceAmish Bak'u]] welcoming [[BigBad the Son'a]] [[spoiler:(who are banished Bak'u)]] into their society and allowing them to keep their planet and its fountain-of-youth powers. Except that it was pointed out that it will take ten years for the planet's rejuvenating effects to really affect the Son'a, and many will not make it that long. Plus, the Bak'u will maintain their monopoly on rejuvenating powers which would certainly benefit billions across the galaxy.
** Billions, mind you, that will almost ''certainly'' die without the medical technology, as the Federation is in the middle of a war with the Dominion and Cardassians, who outnumber and outgun the Federation, Romulans, and the Klingons ''combined.'' So, the thousands- if not millions- who die in the war who could have been saved after being shot by the Jem'Hadar by the medical techniques and technology developed by studying the healing energy? They can die easy, knowing that the thousand or so Ba'Ku/So'na are going to be all right.
*** It should be noted that the top So'na are revenge-driven jerks who are allied with the Dominion, so destroying the fountain of youth planet [[UnreliableNarrator based on their word]] might not be the best Plan A.

to:

* EsotericHappyEnding: The movie ends with [[PerfectPacifistPeople the]] [[SpaceAmish Bak'u]] welcoming [[BigBad the Son'a]] [[spoiler:(who are banished Bak'u)]] into their society and allowing them to keep their planet and its fountain-of-youth powers. Except that it was pointed out that it will take ten years for the planet's rejuvenating effects to really affect the Son'a, and many will not make it that long. Plus, the Bak'u will maintain their monopoly on rejuvenating powers which would certainly benefit billions across the galaxy.
**
galaxy. Billions, mind you, that will almost ''certainly'' die without the medical technology, as the Federation is in the middle of a war with the Dominion and Cardassians, who outnumber and outgun the Federation, Romulans, and the Klingons ''combined.'' So, the thousands- if not millions- who die in the war who could have been saved after being shot by the Jem'Hadar by the medical techniques and technology developed by studying the healing energy? They can die easy, knowing that the thousand or so Ba'Ku/So'na are going to be all right.
*** It should be noted that the top So'na are revenge-driven jerks who are allied with the Dominion, so destroying the fountain of youth planet [[UnreliableNarrator based on their word]] might not be the best Plan A.
right.



* [[RootingForTheEmpire Rooting for the Federation]]: The Federation are considered by many (including some members of ''the cast'') to have had very good reasons for trying to force the Bak'u off the planet to study the anomaly, and they were consistently willing to use non-lethal methods to do so. See StrawmanHasAPoint below.

to:

* [[RootingForTheEmpire Rooting for the Federation]]: RootingForTheEmpire: The Federation are considered by many (including some members of ''the cast'') to have had very good reasons for trying to force the Bak'u off the planet to study the anomaly, and they were consistently willing to use non-lethal methods to do so. See StrawmanHasAPoint below.so.



** The colonists are so over the top "happy" and perfect, some viewers will feel uncomfortable or even literally cringe just watching them. Probably a big contributor to the UnintentionallyUnsympathetic below.

to:

** The colonists are so over the top "happy" and perfect, some viewers will feel uncomfortable or even literally cringe just watching them. Probably a big contributor to the UnintentionallyUnsympathetic below.



* StrawmanHasAPoint: [[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan Shouldn't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?]] While the Bak'u were supposed to come off as innocent victims of an under-the-table Federation plot to steal their planet's resources, viewers tend to interpret them as selfish pricks who won't share (or tolerate anyone of their own who wanted to share) their planet's amazing power of healing, leaving the rest of the galaxy to die of diseases they themselves easily overcame. Of course, the idea of a land grab from them greatly violates their rightful sovereignty, and is in itself wrong, even if it was meant for the greater good of the galaxy. But since the Bak'u are interpreted as such [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] for not being willing to give up their homes to allow the radiation to be collected and distributed, it's hard for some to feel sympathy for them.
** Also, the Bak'u don't really have a legitimate claim to the planet. They were just refugees who just happened to crash land on the planet and decided to eliminate all their technology, fooling the Federation into thinking that they were a pre-Warp civilization. Not that the Federation's claim is any better.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: [[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan Shouldn't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?]] While the Bak'u were supposed to come off as innocent victims of an under-the-table Federation plot to steal their planet's resources, viewers tend to interpret them as selfish pricks who won't share (or tolerate anyone of their own who wanted to share) their planet's amazing power of healing, leaving the rest of the galaxy to die of diseases they themselves easily overcame. Of course, the idea of a land grab from them greatly violates their rightful sovereignty, and is in itself wrong, even if it was meant for the greater good of the galaxy. But since the Bak'u are interpreted as such [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] for not being willing to give up their homes to allow the radiation to be collected and distributed, it's hard for some to feel sympathy for them.
**
them. Also, the Bak'u don't really have a legitimate better claim than the Federation to the planet. They were just refugees who just happened to crash land on the planet and decided to eliminate all their technology, fooling the Federation into thinking that they were a pre-Warp civilization. Not that the Federation's claim is any better.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but they're hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. As pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, choosing immortality over helping save countless lives, then they would have become the villains of the story.

to:

* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they the Bak'u are and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but they're hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. As pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, [[ImmortalityImmorality choosing immortality over helping save countless lives, lives]], then they would have become the villains of the story.

Changed: 786

Removed: 514

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cleanup. If the complaints are due to the bad handling of the Aesop as opposed to the intended message, not this trope. That's Broken or Clueless Aesop.


* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but as pointed out below, they are hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. And, as pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, choosing immortality over helping save countless lives, then they would have become the villains of the story.

to:

* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but as pointed out below, they are they're hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. And, as As pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, choosing immortality over helping save countless lives, then they would have become the villains of the story.



* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: The intended {{Aesop}} is "[[ImmortalitySeeker letting the desire for eternal youth consume you can turn you into a monster]]". But since the Son'a are so over the top and UnintentionallySympathetic with their failure to artificially extend their lives, the Aesop seems more like "growing old is icky, and turns you into an evil, repulsive, toxin-oozing monster with a garbage-bag face". This is especially emphasized by the fact that the Ba'ku do not provide a contrasting position. They do not face old age gracefully because they do not grow old thanks to the radiation. But this is an environmental factor which has ''nothing'' whatsoever to do with their lifestyle. Despite this, they are very self-righteous about having attained immortality through dumb luck.
** And the more conventional Aesop about the planet's rejuvenating powers: "Finders keepers, losers weepers".
** Hey, remember Spock's extremely sad, moving line about how "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?" Turns out that "the many" are called "The Ba'ku" and "The Few" is anyone else who wants to use their planet's healing powers, which is... several hundred billion people... who will probably die in the massive war that is overwhelming all the other powers in the Alpha Quadrent combined...

to:

* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: The intended {{Aesop}} is "[[ImmortalitySeeker letting the desire for eternal youth consume you can turn you into a monster]]". But since the Son'a are so over the top and UnintentionallySympathetic with their failure to artificially extend their lives, the Aesop seems more like "growing old is icky, and turns you into an evil, repulsive, toxin-oozing monster with a garbage-bag face". This is especially emphasized by the fact that the Ba'ku do not provide a contrasting position. They do not face old age gracefully because they do not grow old thanks to the radiation. But this is an environmental factor which has ''nothing'' whatsoever to do with their lifestyle. Despite this, they are very self-righteous about having attained immortality through dumb luck.
** And the more conventional Aesop about
About the planet's rejuvenating powers: "Finders keepers, losers weepers".
** Hey, remember Spock's extremely sad, moving line about how "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?" Turns out that "the many" are called "The Ba'ku" and "The Few" is anyone else who wants to use their planet's healing powers, which is... several hundred billion people... who will probably die in the massive war that is overwhelming all the other powers in the Alpha Quadrent combined...
weepers".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It caused an additional problem for non-US viewers as well -- the UK, for instance, was only about halfway through the show's fifth season when the film came out, but the film made references to stuff that happened in the ''seventh'' season.

to:

** It caused an additional problem for non-US viewers as well -- the UK, for instance, was only about halfway through the show's fifth season when the film came out, but the film made references to stuff that happened in the ''seventh'' season. (This, to the consternation of many viewers, [[WhatCouldHaveBeen left a reference regarding the death of Jadzia Dax, Worf's wife, out]] - UK audiences would be spoiled, given that her death happened at the conclusion of [=DS9's=] SIXTH season, while the US audiences were left seeing no one comment on Worf's development since joining Deep Space Nine, despite Worf's marriage and widowing being something of a major life event.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The issues surrounding forced relocation is a complex one that Star Trek normally loves to delve into, but being very explicit that it was only 600 people who were not actually native to the planet graphically undermines the moral dilemma when it came to revolutionizing medical science with a no-strings-attached fountain of youth. A bigger budget to show hundreds of thousands of people on the planet and a resource that was more utilitarian than noble medical research (like a super fuel) could have made something of the plot.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* OneSceneWonder: The blue-skinned Bolian theorist Hans Adislo, who's brief exchange with Captain Picard over thermionic transconductance [[IncrediblyLamePun comes out of the blue]] and is then completely forgotten. In their joint review of the film, the Nostalgia Critic and Linkara are completely baffled at the utter pointlessness of the character.

to:

* OneSceneWonder: The blue-skinned Bolian theorist Hans Adislo, who's whose brief exchange with Captain Picard over thermionic transconductance [[IncrediblyLamePun comes out of the blue]] and is then completely forgotten. In their joint review of the film, the Nostalgia Critic and Linkara are completely baffled at the utter pointlessness of the character.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
A badly written example that argues against itself being an example.


* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u, are a morally ambiguous variant. While it's true that choosing immortality over saving billions of lives is more than a tad selfish, it's reasonable to assume that few people in RealLife would find it so simple to make said sacrifice if ''they'' were faced with it. And while somewhat isolationist, the story doesn't ''quite'' rule out that they may let allies move to their planet, the resulting immortality of which may easily save billions in the long run itself.

to:

* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u, are a morally ambiguous variant. While it's true Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but as pointed out below, they are hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. And, as pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, choosing immortality over saving billions of lives is more than a tad selfish, it's reasonable to assume that few people in RealLife helping save countless lives, then they would find it so simple to make said sacrifice if ''they'' were faced with it. And while somewhat isolationist, have become the story doesn't ''quite'' rule out that they may let allies move to their planet, villains of the resulting immortality of which may easily save billions in the long run itself.story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: The intended {{Aesop}} is "[[ImmortalitySeeker letting the desire for eternal youth consume you can turn you into a monster]]". But since the Son'a are so over the top and UnintentionallySympathetic with their failure to artificially extend their lives, the Aesop seems more like "growing old is icky, and turns you into an evil, repulsive, toxin-oozing monster with a garbage-bag face".

to:

* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: The intended {{Aesop}} is "[[ImmortalitySeeker letting the desire for eternal youth consume you can turn you into a monster]]". But since the Son'a are so over the top and UnintentionallySympathetic with their failure to artificially extend their lives, the Aesop seems more like "growing old is icky, and turns you into an evil, repulsive, toxin-oozing monster with a garbage-bag face". This is especially emphasized by the fact that the Ba'ku do not provide a contrasting position. They do not face old age gracefully because they do not grow old thanks to the radiation. But this is an environmental factor which has ''nothing'' whatsoever to do with their lifestyle. Despite this, they are very self-righteous about having attained immortality through dumb luck.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The Son'a and their ties to the Dominion. What should be a critical plot point, is instead briefly mentioned and treated as an afterthought. Sure, Dougherty would probably have wanted proof, but you have to wonder why no one thought to tell him or the Federation that they are basically about to screw over a neutral party and hand medical technology over to an enemy that they are losing a war with.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The Son'a are NOT qualified for Designated Villian Status. Poor writing abound, yes, but they are Dominion Allies who are NOT going to save Billions, unless by that you mean Billions of genocidal changelings, then sure. The Ba.ku, sure, but tell me YOU would find the sacrifice so easy if you were in their shoes.............you wouldn't...............


* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans that endured genocide from the US government, but as pointed out below, they are hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. And, as pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, choosing immortality over helping save countless lives, then they would have become the villains of the story.

to:

* DesignatedHero: The Bak'u. The movie perches how perfect they and we're supposed to draw parallels between them and native Americans Bak'u, are a morally ambiguous variant. While it's true that endured genocide from the US government, but as pointed out below, they are hogging the planet's radiation that could save billions of lives just because they don't want to be inconvenienced. And, as pointed out by WebSite/SFDebris, the only reason for the forced relocation is that if Starfleet and the Son'a went to them honestly and ask for their cooperation and they refused, choosing immortality over helping save countless lives, then they saving billions of lives is more than a tad selfish, it's reasonable to assume that few people in RealLife would have become find it so simple to make said sacrifice if ''they'' were faced with it. And while somewhat isolationist, the villains of story doesn't ''quite'' rule out that they may let allies move to their planet, the story.resulting immortality of which may easily save billions in the long run itself.



* DesignatedVillain: The Son'a, and to a lesser degree, Admiral Dougherty. As brought up below, what they are doing will save billions, and the viewer is supposed to draw parallels between them and people that wrought genocide on the Native Americans through relocation, but what they're doing removes the Bak'u non-violently and the Son'a only resort to violence as a last resort, and they're doing all this because they'll all DIE if they don't.

to:

* DesignatedVillain: The Son'a, and to a lesser degree, Admiral Dougherty. As brought up below, what they Dougherty, who's intentions are doing will to save billions, and the viewer is supposed to draw parallels between them and people that wrought genocide on the Native Americans through relocation, but what they're doing removes the Bak'u non-violently and the billions. The Son'a only resort to violence as a last resort, are Dominion Allies who have '''ZERO''' intention of fulfilling their agreement with him, but he doesn't exactly know that, and they're doing all the fact that the Enterprise Crew figures this because they'll all DIE if they don't.out and ''doesn't bother to tell him'' raises some serious questions.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Clearly the Son'a and Ba'ku were written horribly, but there IS some important context being missed here.


* UnintentionallySympathetic: The Son'a. Despite being "villains," viewers tend to sympathize with them because they're dying and trying to cure themselves.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Ba'ku, to the point where some viewers argue they deserve to die. At the very least they come across as unbelievably self-righteous, especially since they boast about understanding advanced technology (like Data's positronic brain) and merely sniff disdainfully at others who actually ''use'' such things.

to:

* UnintentionallySympathetic: The Son'a. Despite being "villains," viewers tend to sympathize with them because they're dying and trying to cure themselves.
themselves. They '''are''' Dominion Allies, but this mention is brief and easy to miss, and you'd think '''that''' would be more central to the plot if it's true. But instead, the Enterprise Crew whine about how Starfleet had no business getting involved. [[note]]Which is really dumb because with the Son'a being Dominion Allies, they damned well '''DID''', they just picked the wrong side.[[/note]] Additionally, the potential for the Ba'ku's source of immortality to be used as medicine was meant to be shown as the Son'a being [[ManipulativeBastard two faced]] and caring more about extending their own lifespans than cleaning up their behavior and rejoining the colony, but came off as making them seem reasonable instead.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Ba'ku, to the point where some viewers argue they deserve to die. At The intention was to portray them as peaceful people who only exiled the very least Son'a because they were morally bankrupt, but the way it's presented, they instead come across off as unbelievably self-righteous, especially since moralistic elitists. It's also kind of understandable that they boast about understanding advanced technology (like Data's positronic brain) and merely sniff disdainfully at others who actually ''use'' such things.don't want to lose their immortality, but the potential for its source to be used as medicine muddies this a bit.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** As another strike against the Baku's supposed perfection, they're not even indigenous to the planet, so they really have no right to claim rightful ownership of its radiation. And consider that a common tactic of imperialist colonialism throughout Earth's history involved getting the indigenous population hooked on some form of narcotic, which was then used as leverage for trade. Sounds a lot like the Son'a's addiction to the radiation, doesn't it? Not to mention how many online eyebrows have been raised over the fact that the Baku are very, ''very'', um, [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything blonde, white and perfectly healthy.]] Taking this into account, especially when you consider [[spoiler:the Son'a were once Baku themselves]], it comes across a lot less like "evil alien drug lords preying on the space Amish" and more like "small group of ethnic purist colonists who got lucky on the right planet hoards control of its riches for themselves to maintain a position of power, leverages control of healthcare and addictive narcotics over an [[spoiler:exiled]] ghettoized population (who [[HeWhoFightsMonster soon adopted those same tactics to build an empire]]), and then running to the Federation for help when the people [[spoiler:they exiled]] comes back to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard turn their own tactics against them.]]"

to:

** As another strike against the Baku's supposed perfection, they're not even indigenous to the planet, so they really have no right to claim rightful ownership of its radiation. And consider that a common tactic of imperialist colonialism throughout Earth's history involved getting the indigenous population hooked on some form of narcotic, which was then used as leverage for trade. Sounds a lot like the Son'a's addiction to the radiation, doesn't it? Not to mention how many online eyebrows have been raised over the fact that the Baku are very, ''very'', um, [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything blonde, white and perfectly healthy.]] Taking this into account, especially when you consider [[spoiler:the Son'a were once Baku themselves]], it comes across a lot less like "evil alien drug lords preying on the space Amish" and more like "small group of ethnic purist colonists who got lucky on the right planet hoards control of its riches for themselves to maintain a position of power, leverages control of healthcare and addictive narcotics over an [[spoiler:exiled]] ghettoized population (who [[HeWhoFightsMonster [[HeWhoFightsMonsters soon adopted those same tactics to build an empire]]), and then running to the Federation for help when the people [[spoiler:they exiled]] comes back to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard turn their own tactics against them.]]"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** As another strike against the Baku's supposed perfection, they're not even indigenous to the planet, so they really have no right to claim rightful ownership of its radiation. And consider that a common tactic of imperialist colonialism throughout Earth's history involved getting the indigenous population hooked on some form of narcotic, which was then used as leverage for trade. Sounds a lot like the Son'a's addiction to the radiation, doesn't it? Not to mention how many online eyebrows have been raised over the fact that the Baku are very, ''very'', um, [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything blonde, white and perfectly healthy.]] Taking this into account, especially when you consider [[spoiler:the Son'a were once Baku themselves]], it comes across a lot less like "evil alien drug lords preying on the space Amish" and more like "group of ethnic purist colonists who got lucky on the right planet leverages control of healthcare and addictive narcotics over an [[spoiler:exiled]] minority population (who [[HeWhoFightsMonster soon adopted those same tactics to build an empire]]), and then running to the Federation for help when the people [[spoiler:they exiled]] comes back to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard turn their own tactics against them.]]"

to:

** As another strike against the Baku's supposed perfection, they're not even indigenous to the planet, so they really have no right to claim rightful ownership of its radiation. And consider that a common tactic of imperialist colonialism throughout Earth's history involved getting the indigenous population hooked on some form of narcotic, which was then used as leverage for trade. Sounds a lot like the Son'a's addiction to the radiation, doesn't it? Not to mention how many online eyebrows have been raised over the fact that the Baku are very, ''very'', um, [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything blonde, white and perfectly healthy.]] Taking this into account, especially when you consider [[spoiler:the Son'a were once Baku themselves]], it comes across a lot less like "evil alien drug lords preying on the space Amish" and more like "group "small group of ethnic purist colonists who got lucky on the right planet hoards control of its riches for themselves to maintain a position of power, leverages control of healthcare and addictive narcotics over an [[spoiler:exiled]] minority ghettoized population (who [[HeWhoFightsMonster soon adopted those same tactics to build an empire]]), and then running to the Federation for help when the people [[spoiler:they exiled]] comes back to [[HoistByHisOwnPetard turn their own tactics against them.]]"

Top