History YMMV / PokemonOrigins

16th Apr '16 12:23:07 PM Kytseo
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* SignatureScene: Red's Charmander's blood-curdling scream of agony when it's bit by Blue's Squirtle, which notably [[DarkerAndEdgier sets the tone]] for this particular adaptation.

to:

* SignatureScene: Red's Charmander's [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAdGv89e0sE blood-curdling scream of agony agony]] when it's bit by Blue's Squirtle, which notably [[DarkerAndEdgier sets the tone]] for this particular adaptation.
16th Apr '16 12:06:54 PM Kytseo
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Added DiffLines:

* SignatureScene: Red's Charmander's blood-curdling scream of agony when it's bit by Blue's Squirtle, which notably [[DarkerAndEdgier sets the tone]] for this particular adaptation.
16th Mar '16 4:40:15 PM BreakinBenny
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** Giovanni. [[spoiler:As a child he was a Pokémon trainer much like Red. When he battles Red, he remembers how much he enjoyed Pokémon when he was younger, making him something of an AudienceSurrogate for older ''Pokémon'' fans.]]
** [[spoiler:Mewtwo is little more than an uncontrollable and incredibly powerful wild animal, which is a far cry from his portrayal in other adaptations. Consistent with those adaptations, he obviously wants to be left alone, but Red won't leave. On the other hand, this is basically how he was portrayed in the game itself.]]

to:

** Giovanni. [[spoiler:As a child he was a Pokémon trainer much like Red. When he battles Red, he remembers how much he enjoyed Pokémon when he was younger, making him something of an AudienceSurrogate for older ''Pokémon'' fans.]]
** [[spoiler:Mewtwo is little more than an uncontrollable and incredibly powerful wild animal, which is a far cry from his its portrayal in other adaptations. Consistent with those adaptations, he it obviously wants to be left alone, but Red won't leave. On the other hand, this is basically how he it was portrayed in the game itself.]]



** The entire existence of ''Origins'' can be seen as one for ''Pokémon'' fans who wish the anime followed the games more closely. Its DarkerAndEdgier tendencies also are intended to appeal to fans of the original games who had outgrown the anime.

to:

** The entire existence of ''Origins'' can be seen as one for ''Pokémon'' fans who wish the anime followed the games more closely. Its DarkerAndEdgier tendencies also are intended to appeal to fans of the original games who had outgrown the anime.



** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A derivative of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses many of the characters designs introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I gameplay mechanics.
** When it was announced, people were butting heads over which was better: this, or the regular anime. [[FandomRivalry Particularly when it came to their protagonists.]] Asking if Red actually is a better Trainer than Ash--in terms of not only accomplishments, but battling styles, battling ''efficiency'', and raising/caring for their Pokémon--[[FlameWar can result in incredibly nasty debates]], particularly where [[FanDumb die-hard Red fans]]/[[HateDumb Ash haters]] are concerned, so tread lightly.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[spoiler:After the Mewtwo from [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the 16th anime series movie]] sparked an InternetBackdraft, many fans enjoyed Mewtwo in this special, as it provided a ''third'' interpretation of the character after the two anime series Mewtwo -- essentially, an uncontrollable and highly dangerous superpowered wild animal... just like any other Pokémon in the games.]]

to:

** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A derivative of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses many of the characters designs introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I gameplay mechanics.
** When it was announced, people were butting heads over which was better: this, or the regular anime. [[FandomRivalry Particularly when it came to their protagonists.]] Asking if Red actually is a better Trainer than Ash--in terms of not only accomplishments, but battling styles, battling ''efficiency'', and raising/caring for their Pokémon--[[FlameWar can result in incredibly nasty debates]], particularly where [[FanDumb die-hard Red fans]]/[[HateDumb Ash haters]] are concerned, so tread lightly.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[spoiler:After the Mewtwo from [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the 16th anime series movie]] sparked an InternetBackdraft, many fans enjoyed Mewtwo in this special, as it provided a ''third'' interpretation of the character after the two anime series Mewtwo -- essentially, an uncontrollable and highly dangerous superpowered wild animal... animal… just like any other Pokémon in the games.]]



* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{Jobber}}s there to his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.

to:

* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{Jobber}}s {{jobber}}s there to his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.



* ItWasHisSled: Spoiler alert -- [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X exists]]! This came as a surprise when the special first aired, although his ''appearance'' in the special may still come as a surprise for some.

to:

* ItWasHisSled: Spoiler alert -- [[spoiler: Mega [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X exists]]! This came as a surprise when the special first aired, although his its ''appearance'' in the special may still come as a surprise for some.



** And it doesn't stop there, either. [[spoiler:After his ill-fated battle against Mewtwo, in which his Pokédex was crushed after his Blastoise fell on it, a bandaged and bedridden Blue can only watch as his rival hands in his completed Pokédex to the professor.]]

to:

** And it doesn't stop there, either. [[spoiler:After his ill-fated battle against Mewtwo, in which his Pokédex was crushed after his Blastoise fell on it, a bandaged and bedridden Blue can only watch as his rival hands in his completed Pokédex to the professor.]]



* {{Narm}}: For several viewers, Red's explanation for how his name ties into his choice of a starter Pokémon comes across as downright cheesy. While it's been accepted for a long time that the first few Gens had... odd name choices for the protagonists and rivals, some felt ''Origins'' would've been better off just letting it be instead of awkwardly trying to justify it.

to:

* {{Narm}}: For several viewers, Red's explanation for how his name ties into his choice of a starter Pokémon comes across as downright cheesy. While it's been accepted for a long time that the first few Gens had... odd name choices for the protagonists and rivals, some felt ''Origins'' would've been better off just letting it be instead of awkwardly trying to justify it.



** The moment when Blue's Squirtle uses Bite on Red's Charmander. Squirtle chomps Charmander ''on the neck'', and for about ten seconds, you hear it ''screaming''. The flame on its tail start to die before Red retrieves it. The screaming was toned down in the dub, though it leads to a different kind of Nightmare Fuel.

to:

** The moment when Blue's Squirtle uses Bite on Red's Charmander. Squirtle chomps Charmander ''on the neck'', and for about ten seconds, you hear it ''screaming''. The flame on its tail start to die starts dying before Red retrieves it. The screaming was toned down in the dub, though it leads to a different kind of Nightmare Fuel.



** Remember hearing about the Marowak killed by Team Rocket? Well here, you actually see it. Sure, [[GoryDiscretionShot it cuts away from the actual killing]], but they do ''not'' skirt the implications '''at all'''. Oh, and even though they cut away? You can perfectly hear Marowak's lovely '''blood-curdling scream'''. The pitch is almost ''human'', which just makes it more painful and haunting to hear. Like when Charmander got bitten by Squirtle, this was also downplayed in the dub.

to:

** Remember hearing about the Marowak killed by Team Rocket? Well here, you actually see it. Sure, [[GoryDiscretionShot it cuts away from the actual killing]], but they do ''not'' skirt the implications '''at all'''. Oh, and even though they cut away? You can perfectly hear Marowak's lovely [[SarcasmMode lovely]] '''blood-curdling scream'''. The pitch is almost ''human'', which just makes it more painful and haunting to hear. Like when Charmander got bitten by Squirtle, this was also downplayed in the dub.



** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west]]. Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X]].
** [[spoiler:Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto, which is a common criticism of Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]
*** In fact, [[spoiler:there only being 150 known Pokémon could be seen as a nod to more adamant old-timers who reject the existence of #151, Mew, and the totality of all other generations of Pokémon beyond the original]].

to:

** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west]]. Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X]].
** [[spoiler:Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto, which is a common criticism of Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]
*** In fact, [[spoiler:there only being 150 known Pokémon could be seen as a nod to more adamant old-timers who reject the existence of #151, Mew, and the totality of all other generations of Pokémon beyond the original]].



* SubbingVsDubbing: Some people love the English dub ({{Bowdleriz|e}}ation aside), others outright hate it. Notably, Dogasu, usually a harsh critic of English ''Pokémon'' dubs, actually said that the dub is really good, to the point where he warned people to avoid fansubs of the special due to their generally low quality.

to:

* SubbingVsDubbing: Some people love the English dub ({{Bowdleriz|e}}ation aside), others outright hate it. Notably, Dogasu, usually a harsh critic of English ''Pokémon'' dubs, actually said that the dub is really good, to the point where he warned people to avoid fansubs of the special due to their generally low quality.



* {{Woolseyism}}: Despite the LostInTranslation matter regarding Blue's shirt losing its reference to ''Pokémon Green Version'' (and ''Pokémon [=LeafGreen=] Version'', by extension), the English name change of "Green" to "Blue" allows both Red and Blue's names to match the original English paired versions (''Red and Blue'') as well as the colors/elements of their starter Pokémon (Charizard and Blastoise, respectively), the latter of which being something that the Japanese version of ''Origins'' '''doesn't''' do.
** Although, in the second case, Green/Blue vocally denies any attempt to make his Pokémon choice match his name, unlike Red.

to:

* {{Woolseyism}}: Despite the LostInTranslation matter regarding Blue's shirt losing its reference to ''Pokémon Green Version'' (and ''Pokémon [=LeafGreen=] Version'', by extension), the English name change of "Green" to "Blue" allows both Red and Blue's names to match the original English paired versions (''Red and Blue'') as well as the colors/elements of their starter Pokémon (Charizard and Blastoise, respectively), the latter of which being something that the Japanese version of ''Origins'' '''doesn't''' do.
** Although, in the second case, Green/Blue vocally denies any attempt to make his Pokémon choice match his name, unlike Red.
29th Feb '16 7:44:19 PM KrspaceT
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* CriticalResearchFailure: In episode 3, Red's Kabutops was defeated by Giovanni's Ryhorn's Thunder Bolt. The problem? Kabutops is a ''Rock''/Water type, so it wouldn't have affected it at all. For an anime that's based more on the game, this seems rather jarring.
29th Feb '16 7:43:04 PM TCgamerboy2002
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Added DiffLines:

* CriticalResearchFailure: In episode 3, Red's Kabutops was defeated by Giovanni's Ryhorn's Thunder Bolt. The problem? Kabutops is a ''Rock''/Water type, so it wouldn't have affected it at all. For an anime that's based more on the game, this seems rather jarring.
27th Feb '16 12:17:14 AM X2X
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** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A subset of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses the characters designs for Red and Blue introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I mechanics.

to:

** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A subset derivative of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses many of the characters designs for Red and Blue introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I gameplay mechanics.
27th Feb '16 12:15:23 AM X2X
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: The anime itself does this with several characters from the games.
** Brock is TheMentor.
** The Marowak ghost [[spoiler: isn't trying to attack humans; it's trying to ''warn people away from Team Rocket''.]]
** Giovanni. [[spoiler: As a child he was a Pokemon trainer much like Red. When he battles Red, he remembers how much he enjoyed Pokemon when he was younger, making him something of an AudienceSurrogate for older Pokemon fans.]]
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo is little more than an uncontrollable and incredibly powerful wild animal, which is a far cry from his portrayal in other adaptations. Consistent with those adaptations, he obviously wants to be left alone, but Red won't leave. On the other hand, this is basically how he was portrayed in the game itself.]]

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The anime itself does this with several characters from the games.
** Brock is TheMentor.
TheMentor, though this is somewhat reminiscent of [[TheSmartGuy his other anime counterpart]].
** The Marowak ghost [[spoiler: isn't [[spoiler:isn't trying to attack humans; it's trying to ''warn people away from Team Rocket''.]]
Rocket'']].
** Giovanni. [[spoiler: As [[spoiler:As a child he was a Pokemon Pokémon trainer much like Red. When he battles Red, he remembers how much he enjoyed Pokemon Pokémon when he was younger, making him something of an AudienceSurrogate for older Pokemon ''Pokémon'' fans.]]
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo [[spoiler:Mewtwo is little more than an uncontrollable and incredibly powerful wild animal, which is a far cry from his portrayal in other adaptations. Consistent with those adaptations, he obviously wants to be left alone, but Red won't leave. On the other hand, this is basically how he was portrayed in the game itself.]]



** The entire existence of ''Origins'' can be seen as one for Pokemon fans who wish the anime followed the games more closely. Its DarkerAndEdgier tendencies also are intended to appeal to fans of the original games who had outgrown the anime.
** [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X's reveal in this special. When Mega Charizard Y was originally revealed, it was said to retain its typing and was thought to be the final nail in the coffin for Charizard ever being a Dragon-type. Cue this special being aired in Japan, revealing in a post-credits sequence that Mega Charizard X was a Fire/Dragon.]]

to:

** The entire existence of ''Origins'' can be seen as one for Pokemon ''Pokémon'' fans who wish the anime followed the games more closely. Its DarkerAndEdgier tendencies also are intended to appeal to fans of the original games who had outgrown the anime.
** [[spoiler: Mega [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X's reveal in this special. When Mega Charizard Y was originally revealed, it was said to retain its typing and was thought to be the final nail in the coffin for Charizard ever being a Dragon-type. Cue this special being aired in Japan, revealing in a post-credits sequence that Mega Charizard X was a Fire/Dragon.]]



* AwesomeMusic: Many of the classic themes from ''Red'' and ''Green/Blue'' are redone as proper orchestral pieces here. And it is ''awesome''.

to:

* AwesomeMusic: SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Many of the classic themes from ''Red'' and ''Green/Blue'' are redone as proper orchestral pieces here. And it is ''awesome''.



** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokemon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic Pokemon universe.
** When it was announced, people were butting heads over which was better: this, or the regular anime. Particularly when it came to their protagonists.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[spoiler: After the Mewtwo from [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the 16th anime series movie]] sparked an InternetBackdraft, many fans enjoyed Mewtwo in this special, as it provided a ''third'' interpretation of the character after the two anime series Mewtwo - essentially, an uncontrollable and highly dangerous superpowered wild animal... just like any other Pokémon in the games.]]

to:

** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokemon Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars) bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic Pokemon universe.
''Pokémon'' universe. A subset of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses the characters designs for Red and Blue introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I mechanics.
** When it was announced, people were butting heads over which was better: this, or the regular anime. [[FandomRivalry Particularly when it came to their protagonists.
protagonists.]] Asking if Red actually is a better Trainer than Ash--in terms of not only accomplishments, but battling styles, battling ''efficiency'', and raising/caring for their Pokémon--[[FlameWar can result in incredibly nasty debates]], particularly where [[FanDumb die-hard Red fans]]/[[HateDumb Ash haters]] are concerned, so tread lightly.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[spoiler: After [[spoiler:After the Mewtwo from [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the 16th anime series movie]] sparked an InternetBackdraft, many fans enjoyed Mewtwo in this special, as it provided a ''third'' interpretation of the character after the two anime series Mewtwo - -- essentially, an uncontrollable and highly dangerous superpowered wild animal... just like any other Pokémon in the games.]]



* HellIsThatNoise: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAdGv89e0sE CHARMANDER'S SCREAM]]. Most of it was removed in the dub, but the cry is still there, just shorter, but still terrifying nonetheless.
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo]] [[UnstoppableRage shrieking like a maniac]] after Red throws his first Ultra Ball at it and it breaks free. It's like some nightmarish klaxon siren: not something a living being should sound like, and the NightmareFace does not help ''at all''.

to:

* HellIsThatNoise: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAdGv89e0sE CHARMANDER'S SCREAM]]. SCREAM.]] Most of it was removed in the dub, but the cry is still there, just shorter, but there--just shorter--and still terrifying nonetheless.
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo]] [[spoiler:Mewtwo]] [[UnstoppableRage shrieking like a maniac]] after Red throws his first Ultra Ball at it and it breaks free. It's like some nightmarish klaxon siren: not something a living being should sound like, and the NightmareFace does not help ''at all''.all''.
* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{Jobber}}s there to his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.



* ItsShortSoItSucks: While sucks might be too strong of a word, many fans were disappointed that the OVA was only four episodes, and that only a couple of the Gym Leaders got highlighted among other rushed moments.
* ItWasHisSled: Spoiler alert - [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X exists]]! This came as a surprise when the special first aired, although his ''appearance'' in the special may still come as a surprise for some.

to:

* ItsShortSoItSucks: While sucks might be too strong of a word, many fans were disappointed that the OVA was only four episodes, and that only a couple of the Gym Leaders got were highlighted among other rushed moments.
* ItWasHisSled: Spoiler alert - -- [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X exists]]! This came as a surprise when the special first aired, although his ''appearance'' in the special may still come as a surprise for some.



** And it doesn't stop there, either. [[spoiler: After his ill-fated battle against Mewtwo, in which his Pokédex was crushed after his Blastoise fell on it, a bandaged and bedridden Blue can only watch as his rival hands in his completed Pokédex to the professor.]]

to:

** And it doesn't stop there, either. [[spoiler: After [[spoiler:After his ill-fated battle against Mewtwo, in which his Pokédex was crushed after his Blastoise fell on it, a bandaged and bedridden Blue can only watch as his rival hands in his completed Pokédex to the professor.]]



* {{Narm}}: For several viewers, Red's explanation for how his name ties into his choice of a starter Pokémon comes across as downright cheesy. While it's been accepted for a long time that the first few Gens had... odd name choices for the protagonists and rivals, some felt ''Origins'' would've been better off just letting it be instead of awkwardly trying to justify it.



** They animated the "Do you believe in ghosts?" scene; when the woman asks the question, Red answers with "Not at all, I don't think they exist." nervously. The woman responds with "The white hand on your shoulder, I'm imagining that right?". Red laughs nervously and replies "Could you please stop joking around?", and when Red opens his eyes, she and her friend are ''nowhere to be seen''. Worse still, if you look closely, '''''[[spoiler: Red actually does have a white hand [[http://25.media.tumblr.com/944090be0f8a33ad85625a425cf6281a/tumblr_mu4bw9ypIN1qggaalo2_500.png on his shoulder]].]]'''''

to:

** They animated the "Do you believe in ghosts?" scene; when the woman asks the question, Red answers with "Not at all, I don't think they exist." exist" nervously. The woman responds with "The white hand on your shoulder, I'm imagining that right?". right?" Red laughs nervously and replies "Could you please stop joking around?", and when Red opens his eyes, she and her friend are ''nowhere to be seen''. Worse still, if you look closely, '''''[[spoiler: Red '''''[[spoiler:Red actually does have a white hand [[http://25.media.tumblr.com/944090be0f8a33ad85625a425cf6281a/tumblr_mu4bw9ypIN1qggaalo2_500.png on his shoulder]].]]'''''



** [[spoiler: When Giovanni's Rhyhorn [[OneHitKill OHKOs]] Red's Victreebel, you can ''see a puncture wound in Victreebel's stomach.'']]
** [[spoiler: Seeing Blue in bandages after his encounter with Mewtwo.]]
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's]] silhouette wreathed in flames is nightmarish.

to:

** [[spoiler: When [[spoiler:When Giovanni's Rhyhorn [[OneHitKill OHKOs]] Red's Victreebel, Victreebel with Horn Drill, you can ''see a puncture wound in Victreebel's stomach.'']]
** [[spoiler: Seeing [[spoiler:Seeing Blue in bandages after his encounter with Mewtwo.]]
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's]] [[spoiler:Mewtwo]]'s silhouette wreathed in flames is nightmarish.



** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west.]] Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X.]]
** [[spoiler: Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto Region, which is a common criticism on Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]
** Team Rocket actually showing up and pulling off the heists they did in the original games, it didn't happen most of time to Team Rocket in anime.
** [[spoiler: The confirmation that Mr. Fuji from Lavender Town is the same person as the Dr. Fuji that worked on the creation of Mewtwo. This was previously hinted at on a sign found on the event-only Faraway Island in Pokemon Emerald (though only the Japanese version had the name on the sign).]]
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's characterization in the special. After the 16th movie's Mewtwo provide to be rather diverse along fandom, this Mewtwo's personality was much better received. It should be note that the special and the movie came out in the same year.]]
* SubbingVsDubbing: Some people love the English dub ({{Bowdlerization}} aside), others outright hate it. Notably, Dogasu, usually a harsh critic of English ''Pokémon'' dubs, actually said that the dub is really good, to the point where he warned people to avoid fansubs of the special due to their generally low quality.

to:

** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon Pokémon, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west.]] west]]. Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler: Mega [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X.X]].
** [[spoiler:Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto, which is a common criticism of Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.
]]
** [[spoiler: Red actually catching all *** In fact, [[spoiler:there only being 150 known Pokémon of Kanto Region, which is could be seen as a common criticism on Ash for not living up nod to more adamant old-timers who reject the English's slogan.]]
existence of #151, Mew, and the totality of all other generations of Pokémon beyond the original]].
** Team Rocket actually showing up and pulling off the heists they did in the original games, it which didn't happen most of time to with Team Rocket in anime.
** [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The confirmation that Mr. Fuji from Lavender Town is the same person as the Dr. Fuji that worked on the creation of Mewtwo. This was previously hinted at on a sign found on the event-only Faraway Island in Pokemon Emerald ''Emerald'' (though only the Japanese version had the name on the sign).]]
** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's [[spoiler:Mewtwo's characterization in the special. After the 16th movie's Mewtwo provide proved to be rather diverse along among the fandom, this Mewtwo's personality was much better received. It should be note that the special and the movie came out in the same year.]]
* SubbingVsDubbing: Some people love the English dub ({{Bowdlerization}} ({{Bowdleriz|e}}ation aside), others outright hate it. Notably, Dogasu, usually a harsh critic of English ''Pokémon'' dubs, actually said that the dub is really good, to the point where he warned people to avoid fansubs of the special due to their generally low quality.



** There's also the people who dislike the DubNameChange from Green to Blue, despite the change matching Blue's English name from ''VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver'', ''VideoGame/PokemonHeartGoldAndSoulSilver'', ''and'' ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2''.

to:

** There's also the people who dislike the DubNameChange from Green to Blue, despite the change matching Blue's English name from ''VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver'', ''VideoGame/PokemonHeartGoldAndSoulSilver'', ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Gold/Silver/Crystal]]'', ''[[VideoGameRemake HeartGold/SoulSilver]]'', ''and'' ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2''.''[[VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2 Black 2/White 2]]''.



* {{Woolseyism}}: Despite the LostInTranslation matter regarding Blue's shirt losing its reference to ''Pokémon Green Version'' (and ''Pokémon LeafGreen Version'', by extension), the English name change of "Green" to "Blue" allows both Red and Blue's names to match the original English paired versions (''Red and Blue'') as well as the colors/elements of their starter Pokémon (Charizard and Blastoise, respectively), the latter of which being something that the Japanese version of ''Origins'' '''doesn't''' do.
** Although, in the second case, Green/Blue vocally denies any attempt to make his Pokémon choice match his name, unlike Red.

to:

* {{Woolseyism}}: Despite the LostInTranslation matter regarding Blue's shirt losing its reference to ''Pokémon Green Version'' (and ''Pokémon LeafGreen [=LeafGreen=] Version'', by extension), the English name change of "Green" to "Blue" allows both Red and Blue's names to match the original English paired versions (''Red and Blue'') as well as the colors/elements of their starter Pokémon (Charizard and Blastoise, respectively), the latter of which being something that the Japanese version of ''Origins'' '''doesn't''' do.
** Although, in the second case, Green/Blue vocally denies any attempt to make his Pokémon choice match his name, unlike Red.
10th Oct '15 8:37:52 PM flamemario12
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** The DarkerAndEdgier nature of the special, with more intense violence. While the dub invokes NeverSayDie for some odd reason, the implications of the mother Marowak's death are not skirted or censored at all.
** The omission of PokemonSpeak.



** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's characterization in the special. After the 16th movie's Mewtwo provide to be rather diverse along fandom, this Mewtwo's personality was much better received. It should be note that the special and the movie came out the same year.]]

to:

** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's characterization in the special. After the 16th movie's Mewtwo provide to be rather diverse along fandom, this Mewtwo's personality was much better received. It should be note that the special and the movie came out in the same year.]]
9th Oct '15 8:03:16 PM flamemario12
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** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west.]]

to:

** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west.]] Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X.]]



** Team Rocket actually showing up and pulling off the heists they did in the original games, which did not exactly happen in the anime.

to:

** Team Rocket actually showing up and pulling off the heists they did in the original games, which did not exactly it didn't happen most of time to Team Rocket in the anime.



** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's characterization in the special. After the 16th movie's Mewtwo proved to be unpopular due to [[ReplacementScrappy her not being the angsty original masculine Mewtwo]], this third Mewtwo has a personality that was much better-received by fans - and also further justified the presence of drastically different Mewtwo characters across continuities. However, this AuthorsSavingThrow [[IMeantToDoThat might have been unintentional due to how soon the special aired after the Genesect movie]].]]

to:

** [[spoiler: Mewtwo's characterization in the special. After the 16th movie's Mewtwo proved provide to be unpopular due to [[ReplacementScrappy her not being the angsty original masculine Mewtwo]], rather diverse along fandom, this third Mewtwo has a Mewtwo's personality that was much better-received by fans - and also further justified the presence of drastically different Mewtwo characters across continuities. However, this AuthorsSavingThrow [[IMeantToDoThat might have been unintentional due to how soon better received. It should be note that the special aired after and the Genesect movie]].movie came out the same year.]]
9th Oct '15 7:54:17 PM flamemario12
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* PanderingToTheBase: Many aspects in ''Origins'' seem to be directly based on popular fandom opinions and polls, including:
** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[BaseBreaker Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard got first place in an IGN popularity poll in 2011 and is essentially the biggest BreakoutCharacter in the franchise, with SeriesMascot Pikachu placing 48th. Further emphasizing this, it's the SpotlightStealingSquad of Red's team, usually being his last resort and winning battles even with a type disadvantage. This is most notable when Giovanni's Rhyhorn [[CurbStompBattle curb-stomps]] his entire team, but Charizard pulls off a victory against Rhydon.
** [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X debuting as a Fire/Dragon type with Zekrom's color scheme. Zekrom was a major fan-favorite in Generation V, partly due to its colour scheme, and many fans were clamoring for a Dragon-type Charizard.]]

to:

* PanderingToTheBase: Many aspects in ''Origins'' seem to be directly based on popular fandom opinions and polls, including:
PanderingToTheBase:
** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[BaseBreaker [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard got first place in an IGN popularity poll in 2011 and is essentially one of the biggest BreakoutCharacter more popular Pokémon [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the franchise, with SeriesMascot Pikachu placing 48th. Further emphasizing this, it's the SpotlightStealingSquad of Red's team, usually being his last resort and winning battles even with a type disadvantage. This is most notable when Giovanni's Rhyhorn [[CurbStompBattle curb-stomps]] his entire team, but Charizard pulls off a victory against Rhydon.
** [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X debuting as a Fire/Dragon type with Zekrom's color scheme. Zekrom was a major fan-favorite in Generation V, partly due to its colour scheme, and many fans were clamoring for a Dragon-type Charizard.]]
west.]]



** The omission of PokemonSpeak, which many older fans criticize in the main anime series for being annoying and cartoonish.
** [[spoiler: Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto Region, which is a common point of criticism on Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]

to:

** The omission of PokemonSpeak, which many older fans criticize in the main anime series for being annoying and cartoonish.
PokemonSpeak.
** [[spoiler: Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto Region, which is a common point of criticism on Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 170. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.PokemonOrigins