History YMMV / PokemonOrigins

27th Aug '16 12:46:08 AM Forenperser
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* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Red's focusing on Charizard can come off as this, especially during the final battle with Giovanni, where he states that a victory without Charizard taking it is meaningless. Comes off pretty harsh when you consider that 5 of his other Pokemon just did their best for him and were quite brutally defeated. Also shows that he neglects the training of his other Pokemon in favor of Charizard.
18th Aug '16 6:36:07 PM CJCroen1393
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** At the end of Red and Brock's battle, Onix comes dangerously close to falling on and crushing one of Brock's guards. Fortunately, Brock manages to call it back before it can land on her.
18th Aug '16 3:13:30 PM CJCroen1393
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* HoYay: Something about Blue going for a SecurityCling with Red after being scared off by the ghost in Lavender Tower comes off as kind off shippy...
7th Jul '16 12:11:43 AM X2X
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* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{jobber}}s there to his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.

to:

* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{jobber}}s there to make his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", logic," the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.
16th Apr '16 12:23:07 PM Kytseo
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* SignatureScene: Red's Charmander's blood-curdling scream of agony when it's bit by Blue's Squirtle, which notably [[DarkerAndEdgier sets the tone]] for this particular adaptation.

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* SignatureScene: Red's Charmander's [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAdGv89e0sE blood-curdling scream of agony agony]] when it's bit by Blue's Squirtle, which notably [[DarkerAndEdgier sets the tone]] for this particular adaptation.
16th Apr '16 12:06:54 PM Kytseo
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* SignatureScene: Red's Charmander's blood-curdling scream of agony when it's bit by Blue's Squirtle, which notably [[DarkerAndEdgier sets the tone]] for this particular adaptation.
16th Mar '16 4:40:15 PM BreakinBenny
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** Giovanni. [[spoiler:As a child he was a Pokémon trainer much like Red. When he battles Red, he remembers how much he enjoyed Pokémon when he was younger, making him something of an AudienceSurrogate for older ''Pokémon'' fans.]]
** [[spoiler:Mewtwo is little more than an uncontrollable and incredibly powerful wild animal, which is a far cry from his portrayal in other adaptations. Consistent with those adaptations, he obviously wants to be left alone, but Red won't leave. On the other hand, this is basically how he was portrayed in the game itself.]]

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** Giovanni. [[spoiler:As a child he was a Pokémon trainer much like Red. When he battles Red, he remembers how much he enjoyed Pokémon when he was younger, making him something of an AudienceSurrogate for older ''Pokémon'' fans.]]
** [[spoiler:Mewtwo is little more than an uncontrollable and incredibly powerful wild animal, which is a far cry from his its portrayal in other adaptations. Consistent with those adaptations, he it obviously wants to be left alone, but Red won't leave. On the other hand, this is basically how he it was portrayed in the game itself.]]



** The entire existence of ''Origins'' can be seen as one for ''Pokémon'' fans who wish the anime followed the games more closely. Its DarkerAndEdgier tendencies also are intended to appeal to fans of the original games who had outgrown the anime.

to:

** The entire existence of ''Origins'' can be seen as one for ''Pokémon'' fans who wish the anime followed the games more closely. Its DarkerAndEdgier tendencies also are intended to appeal to fans of the original games who had outgrown the anime.



** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A derivative of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses many of the characters designs introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I gameplay mechanics.
** When it was announced, people were butting heads over which was better: this, or the regular anime. [[FandomRivalry Particularly when it came to their protagonists.]] Asking if Red actually is a better Trainer than Ash--in terms of not only accomplishments, but battling styles, battling ''efficiency'', and raising/caring for their Pokémon--[[FlameWar can result in incredibly nasty debates]], particularly where [[FanDumb die-hard Red fans]]/[[HateDumb Ash haters]] are concerned, so tread lightly.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[spoiler:After the Mewtwo from [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the 16th anime series movie]] sparked an InternetBackdraft, many fans enjoyed Mewtwo in this special, as it provided a ''third'' interpretation of the character after the two anime series Mewtwo -- essentially, an uncontrollable and highly dangerous superpowered wild animal... just like any other Pokémon in the games.]]

to:

** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A derivative of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses many of the characters designs introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I gameplay mechanics.
** When it was announced, people were butting heads over which was better: this, or the regular anime. [[FandomRivalry Particularly when it came to their protagonists.]] Asking if Red actually is a better Trainer than Ash--in terms of not only accomplishments, but battling styles, battling ''efficiency'', and raising/caring for their Pokémon--[[FlameWar can result in incredibly nasty debates]], particularly where [[FanDumb die-hard Red fans]]/[[HateDumb Ash haters]] are concerned, so tread lightly.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[spoiler:After the Mewtwo from [[Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened the 16th anime series movie]] sparked an InternetBackdraft, many fans enjoyed Mewtwo in this special, as it provided a ''third'' interpretation of the character after the two anime series Mewtwo -- essentially, an uncontrollable and highly dangerous superpowered wild animal... animal… just like any other Pokémon in the games.]]



* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{Jobber}}s there to his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.

to:

* HypeBacklash: While ''Origins'' is well-liked among of older fans of the games for being a mostly-faithful and [[DarkerAndEdgier more mature]] adaptation of ''Red/Blue'' with high quality animation, slick battle scenes, and [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation interesting takes on certain characters and events]], there is a sizable contingent of fans, even those who are part of said PeripheryDemographic, who see the four-part OVA not as the best ''Pokémon'' animation in years, but a SoOkayItsAverage production for a variety of reasons, some of which ironically echo criticisms aimed at the anime. These include but are not limited to pacing problems leading to a rushed narrative that somehow glosses over Red's primary goal of catching all 150 Pokémon, Red's one-note personality and general lack of CharacterDevelopment, the over-reliance of [[WolverinePublicity Charizard]] to the point of [[SpotlightStealingSquad overshadowing all other Mons]] for the sake of [[spoiler:[[MerchandiseDriven advertising Mega Evolution in Gen VI]]]] (some have even argued that the rest of Red's ever-rotating team consists of {{Jobber}}s {{jobber}}s there to his starter look good when a battle is shown in full, with Charizard itself usually bailed out through [[AssPull last-second miracles]]), and ''Origins''[='=] own fair share of mid-battle inconsistencies that make [[StrongAsTheyNeedToBe Red's competency level fluctuate wildly]] despite the reliance on "Gen I game logic", the rematch with Giovanni being a major offender. Not helping matters is the fact that Red, a MemeticBadass in the games (and the ''[[Manga/PokemonAdventures Special]]'' manga to a lesser extent), has a ''very'' noxious fanbase that latched onto his ''Origins'' counterpart and placed him upon a lofty pedestal, all the while deriding Ash/the anime and conveniently downplaying/ignoring the faults of Red/''Origins''.



* ItWasHisSled: Spoiler alert -- [[spoiler: Mega Charizard X exists]]! This came as a surprise when the special first aired, although his ''appearance'' in the special may still come as a surprise for some.

to:

* ItWasHisSled: Spoiler alert -- [[spoiler: Mega [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X exists]]! This came as a surprise when the special first aired, although his its ''appearance'' in the special may still come as a surprise for some.



** And it doesn't stop there, either. [[spoiler:After his ill-fated battle against Mewtwo, in which his Pokédex was crushed after his Blastoise fell on it, a bandaged and bedridden Blue can only watch as his rival hands in his completed Pokédex to the professor.]]

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** And it doesn't stop there, either. [[spoiler:After his ill-fated battle against Mewtwo, in which his Pokédex was crushed after his Blastoise fell on it, a bandaged and bedridden Blue can only watch as his rival hands in his completed Pokédex to the professor.]]



* {{Narm}}: For several viewers, Red's explanation for how his name ties into his choice of a starter Pokémon comes across as downright cheesy. While it's been accepted for a long time that the first few Gens had... odd name choices for the protagonists and rivals, some felt ''Origins'' would've been better off just letting it be instead of awkwardly trying to justify it.

to:

* {{Narm}}: For several viewers, Red's explanation for how his name ties into his choice of a starter Pokémon comes across as downright cheesy. While it's been accepted for a long time that the first few Gens had... odd name choices for the protagonists and rivals, some felt ''Origins'' would've been better off just letting it be instead of awkwardly trying to justify it.



** The moment when Blue's Squirtle uses Bite on Red's Charmander. Squirtle chomps Charmander ''on the neck'', and for about ten seconds, you hear it ''screaming''. The flame on its tail start to die before Red retrieves it. The screaming was toned down in the dub, though it leads to a different kind of Nightmare Fuel.

to:

** The moment when Blue's Squirtle uses Bite on Red's Charmander. Squirtle chomps Charmander ''on the neck'', and for about ten seconds, you hear it ''screaming''. The flame on its tail start to die starts dying before Red retrieves it. The screaming was toned down in the dub, though it leads to a different kind of Nightmare Fuel.



** Remember hearing about the Marowak killed by Team Rocket? Well here, you actually see it. Sure, [[GoryDiscretionShot it cuts away from the actual killing]], but they do ''not'' skirt the implications '''at all'''. Oh, and even though they cut away? You can perfectly hear Marowak's lovely '''blood-curdling scream'''. The pitch is almost ''human'', which just makes it more painful and haunting to hear. Like when Charmander got bitten by Squirtle, this was also downplayed in the dub.

to:

** Remember hearing about the Marowak killed by Team Rocket? Well here, you actually see it. Sure, [[GoryDiscretionShot it cuts away from the actual killing]], but they do ''not'' skirt the implications '''at all'''. Oh, and even though they cut away? You can perfectly hear Marowak's lovely [[SarcasmMode lovely]] '''blood-curdling scream'''. The pitch is almost ''human'', which just makes it more painful and haunting to hear. Like when Charmander got bitten by Squirtle, this was also downplayed in the dub.



** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west]]. Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X]].
** [[spoiler:Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto, which is a common criticism of Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]
*** In fact, [[spoiler:there only being 150 known Pokémon could be seen as a nod to more adamant old-timers who reject the existence of #151, Mew, and the totality of all other generations of Pokémon beyond the original]].

to:

** Charizard's role as the main Pokémon, and [[SeriesMascot Pikachu]] having little more than a cameo. Charizard is one of the more popular Pokémon, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff especially in the west]]. Additionally, the specials showcased [[spoiler:Mega Charizard X]].
** [[spoiler:Red actually catching all 150 Pokémon of Kanto, which is a common criticism of Ash for not living up to the English's slogan.]]
*** In fact, [[spoiler:there only being 150 known Pokémon could be seen as a nod to more adamant old-timers who reject the existence of #151, Mew, and the totality of all other generations of Pokémon beyond the original]].



* SubbingVsDubbing: Some people love the English dub ({{Bowdleriz|e}}ation aside), others outright hate it. Notably, Dogasu, usually a harsh critic of English ''Pokémon'' dubs, actually said that the dub is really good, to the point where he warned people to avoid fansubs of the special due to their generally low quality.

to:

* SubbingVsDubbing: Some people love the English dub ({{Bowdleriz|e}}ation aside), others outright hate it. Notably, Dogasu, usually a harsh critic of English ''Pokémon'' dubs, actually said that the dub is really good, to the point where he warned people to avoid fansubs of the special due to their generally low quality.



* {{Woolseyism}}: Despite the LostInTranslation matter regarding Blue's shirt losing its reference to ''Pokémon Green Version'' (and ''Pokémon [=LeafGreen=] Version'', by extension), the English name change of "Green" to "Blue" allows both Red and Blue's names to match the original English paired versions (''Red and Blue'') as well as the colors/elements of their starter Pokémon (Charizard and Blastoise, respectively), the latter of which being something that the Japanese version of ''Origins'' '''doesn't''' do.
** Although, in the second case, Green/Blue vocally denies any attempt to make his Pokémon choice match his name, unlike Red.

to:

* {{Woolseyism}}: Despite the LostInTranslation matter regarding Blue's shirt losing its reference to ''Pokémon Green Version'' (and ''Pokémon [=LeafGreen=] Version'', by extension), the English name change of "Green" to "Blue" allows both Red and Blue's names to match the original English paired versions (''Red and Blue'') as well as the colors/elements of their starter Pokémon (Charizard and Blastoise, respectively), the latter of which being something that the Japanese version of ''Origins'' '''doesn't''' do.
** Although, in the second case, Green/Blue vocally denies any attempt to make his Pokémon choice match his name, unlike Red.
29th Feb '16 7:44:19 PM KrspaceT
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* CriticalResearchFailure: In episode 3, Red's Kabutops was defeated by Giovanni's Ryhorn's Thunder Bolt. The problem? Kabutops is a ''Rock''/Water type, so it wouldn't have affected it at all. For an anime that's based more on the game, this seems rather jarring.
29th Feb '16 7:43:04 PM TCgamerboy2002
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* CriticalResearchFailure: In episode 3, Red's Kabutops was defeated by Giovanni's Ryhorn's Thunder Bolt. The problem? Kabutops is a ''Rock''/Water type, so it wouldn't have affected it at all. For an anime that's based more on the game, this seems rather jarring.
27th Feb '16 12:17:14 AM X2X
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** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A subset of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses the characters designs for Red and Blue introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I mechanics.

to:

** The inclusion of game elements (trainers using up to six Pokémon while Gym Leaders use a few; showing health bars; linear, back and forth battles, etc.) have fans split on whether they meshed well with a realistic ''Pokémon'' universe. A subset derivative of this argument instead dwells upon ''which'' games ''Origins'' should've been based upon, as the OVA uses many of the characters designs for Red and Blue introduced in the Gen III remakes yet sticks to Gen I gameplay mechanics.
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