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** Is Oedipus morally guilty or innocent? Are we supposed to view him as getting his comeuppance for trying to fight a divine prophecy, or is he a blameless victim of fate? Is his "hamartia" the FatalFlaw of pride (as the main page argues), or is it just his lack of knowledge about his origins? Much scholarly ink has been spilled on this subject.

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** Is Oedipus morally guilty or innocent? Are we supposed to view him as getting his comeuppance for trying to fight a divine prophecy, or is he a blameless victim of fate? Is his "hamartia" the FatalFlaw of pride (as the main page argues), or is it [[ATragedyOfImpulsiveness impulsiveness]], or is it just his lack of knowledge about his origins? Much scholarly ink has been spilled on this subject.
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* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Creator/SigmundFreud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a psychological theory/phenomenon after him (the Oedipus Complex).

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* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Creator/SigmundFreud, UsefulNotes/SigmundFreud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a psychological theory/phenomenon after him (the Oedipus Complex).
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* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Siegmund Freud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a psychological theory/phenomenon after him (the Oedipus Complex).

to:

* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Siegmund Freud, Creator/SigmundFreud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a psychological theory/phenomenon after him (the Oedipus Complex).



** It's also hard for a modern audience to accept the original murder of his father. The only thing that made it a crime was his eventual revealed identity. Oedipus killed a man for a traffic violation and even casually talked about it to others and nobody seemed to care... until they knew who it was.

to:

** It's also hard for a modern audience to accept the original murder of his father. The only thing that made it a crime was in the work is his eventual revealed identity. Oedipus killed a man for a traffic violation and even casually talked about it to others and nobody seemed to care... until they knew who it was.

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* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened. Of course, this only works in isolation, since in Greek mythology in general, PropheciesAreAlwaysRight, even when they logically shouldn't be. Remember Acrisius, who was accidentally killed by his grandson years after everyone forgot all about the prophecy that said his grandson would kill him?

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* AlternateAesopInterpretation: AlternateAesopInterpretation:
**
It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened. Of course, this only works in isolation, since in Greek mythology in general, PropheciesAreAlwaysRight, even when they logically shouldn't be. Remember Acrisius, who was accidentally killed by his grandson years after everyone forgot all about the prophecy that said his grandson would kill him?



** Guthrie's version gives us tge over the top [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96umP9MVz5I I KILLED THEM AAAAALLLLL!!!!! AAAAAAAAARARARAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! AAAAARRRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHH!!! RAAAAAAGH... aaah....]]

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** Guthrie's version gives us tge the over the top [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96umP9MVz5I I KILLED THEM AAAAALLLLL!!!!! AAAAAAAAARARARAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! AAAAARRRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHH!!! RAAAAAAGH... aaah....]]
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96umP9MVz5I I KILLED THEM AAAAALLLLL!!!!! AAAAAAAAARARARAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! AAAAARRRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHH!!! RAAAAAAGH... aaah....]]

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** Guthrie's version gives us tge over the top [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96umP9MVz5I I KILLED THEM AAAAALLLLL!!!!! AAAAAAAAARARARAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! AAAAARRRRRRAAAAAAGGGGHH!!! RAAAAAAGH... aaah....]]
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** Is Oedipus morally guilty or innocent? Are we supposed to view him as getting his comeuppance for trying to fight a divine prophecy, or is he a blameless victim of fate? Is his "hamartia" a literal tragic flaw (e.g. pride, or willful ignorance), or is it just his lack of knowledge about his origins? Much scholarly ink has been spilled on this subject.

to:

** Is Oedipus morally guilty or innocent? Are we supposed to view him as getting his comeuppance for trying to fight a divine prophecy, or is he a blameless victim of fate? Is his "hamartia" a literal tragic flaw (e.g. pride, or willful ignorance), the FatalFlaw of pride (as the main page argues), or is it just his lack of knowledge about his origins? Much scholarly ink has been spilled on this subject.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: It's entirely possible that Jocasta knew all along who Oedipus was and, for the sake of maintaining her lifestyle and the city's stability, married and had children with her own son. Her suicide was not caused by her realizing the truth but by her realizing that she couldn't stop the truth from coming out.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternateCharacterInterpretation:
** Is Oedipus morally guilty or innocent? Are we supposed to view him as getting his comeuppance for trying to fight a divine prophecy, or is he a blameless victim of fate? Is his "hamartia" a literal tragic flaw (e.g. pride, or willful ignorance), or is it just his lack of knowledge about his origins? Much scholarly ink has been spilled on this subject.
**
It's entirely possible that Jocasta knew all along who Oedipus was and, for the sake of maintaining her lifestyle and the city's stability, married and had children with her own son. Her suicide was not caused by her realizing the truth but by her realizing that she couldn't stop the truth from coming out.



* FridgeLogic: Exactly ''how'' did Jocasta not recognize Oedipus was her son? You'd think she'd recognize ''something'' different about him, if we think she didn't know the whole time. And why didn't the SoleSurvivor of Laius's entourage not tell Jocasta Oedipus had killed him ''before'' the Thebans made him king?

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* FridgeLogic: Exactly ''how'' did Jocasta not recognize Oedipus was her son? You'd think she'd recognize ''something'' different about him, if we think she didn't know the whole time. (Although it's probably explained by the fact that he was a newborn baby when she last saw him, and that she thought he was dead.) And why didn't the SoleSurvivor of Laius's entourage not tell Jocasta Oedipus had killed him ''before'' the Thebans made him king?


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** To an ancient Greek audience, even though Oedipus and Jocasta didn't know each other's identities, their unwitting incest and Oedipus's unwitting parricide were still viewed as carrying "pollution." This is why a plague strikes the city of Thebes and why Jocasta is DrivenToSuicide and Oedipus goes into exile when the truth is revealed.
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Dewicking Oedipus Complex


* ItWasHisSled: The play was based on an old story and written with the expectation that the audience knew the ending. Indeed, as pointed out by classicist Bernard Knox, that gave the play its suspense, since the audience was waiting for when Oedipus would discover the AwfulTruth. It also continues into the present day, thanks in large part to people's familiarity with the concept of the OedipusComplex.

to:

* ItWasHisSled: The play was based on an old story and written with the expectation that the audience knew the ending. Indeed, as pointed out by classicist Bernard Knox, that gave the play its suspense, since the audience was waiting for when Oedipus would discover the AwfulTruth. It also continues into the present day, thanks in large part to people's familiarity with the concept of the OedipusComplex.UsefulNotes/OedipusComplex.
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* FridgeLogic: Exactly ''how'' did Jocasta not recognize Oedipus was her son? You'd think she'd recognize ''something'' different about him, if we think she didn't know the whole time.

to:

* FridgeLogic: Exactly ''how'' did Jocasta not recognize Oedipus was her son? You'd think she'd recognize ''something'' different about him, if we think she didn't know the whole time. And why didn't the SoleSurvivor of Laius's entourage not tell Jocasta Oedipus had killed him ''before'' the Thebans made him king?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened. Of course, this only works in isolation, since in Greek mythology in general, PropheciesAreAlwaysRight, even when they logically shouldn't be. Remember Acrisius, who was accidentally killed by his grandson years after everyone forgot all about the prophecy?

to:

* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened. Of course, this only works in isolation, since in Greek mythology in general, PropheciesAreAlwaysRight, even when they logically shouldn't be. Remember Acrisius, who was accidentally killed by his grandson years after everyone forgot all about the prophecy?prophecy that said his grandson would kill him?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened.

to:

* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened. Of course, this only works in isolation, since in Greek mythology in general, PropheciesAreAlwaysRight, even when they logically shouldn't be. Remember Acrisius, who was accidentally killed by his grandson years after everyone forgot all about the prophecy?
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* CommonKnowledge: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has children with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became the King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten.

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* CommonKnowledge: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has children with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became the King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten. The only exception is the RiddlingSphinx.
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It wasn't a mental illness per said but a theory/phenomenon, actually.


* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Siegmund Freud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a mental illness after him (the Oedipus Complex).

to:

* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Siegmund Freud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a mental illness psychological theory/phenomenon after him (the Oedipus Complex).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Let's not promote psudoscience here.


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: It's entirely possible that Jocasta knew all along who Oedipus was and, for the sake of maintaining her lifestyle and the city's stability (and because of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction genetic sexual attraction]]), married and had children with her own son. Her suicide was not caused by her realizing the truth but by her realizing that she couldn't stop the truth from coming out.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: It's entirely possible that Jocasta knew all along who Oedipus was and, for the sake of maintaining her lifestyle and the city's stability (and because of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction genetic sexual attraction]]), stability, married and had children with her own son. Her suicide was not caused by her realizing the truth but by her realizing that she couldn't stop the truth from coming out.
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I this asked when we studied the play in HS language arts class.

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*FridgeLogic: Exactly ''how'' did Jocasta not recognize Oedipus was her son? You'd think she'd recognize ''something'' different about him, if we think she didn't know the whole time.
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* RetroactiveRecognition: In the 1957 film version, one of the chorus members was played by Creator/WilliamShatner. You probably won't notice him since he's wearing a big, colorful mask over his face and blends in with the other elders.

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Redirecting All There Is To Know About The Crying Game to Common Knowledge, as discussed in the forum page for the trope.


* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has children with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became the King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten.


Added DiffLines:

* CommonKnowledge: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has children with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became the King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* RonTheDeathEater: While Oedipus isn't exactly a nice person, a lot of people skip over the fact that he ''didn't know'' the identities of his father and mother before he killed the former and impregnated the latter. Some people, most notably Siegmund Freud, turn him into an irredeemable pervert who deliberately had sex with his mother. Freud even went so far as to naming a mental illness after him (the Oedipus Complex).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten.
* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened.

to:

* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex children with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became the King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten.
* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case case, it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly", it probably wouldn't have happened.



* MoralEventHorizon: Laius crosses this prior to the trilogy when he rapes the titular character of ''Chrysippus''. This angers the gods, whom curse his entire family and lead to the catastrophic events of the trilogy.
* NauseaFuel: When Oedipus finds out what he has done, he gouges his eyes out with his wife's brooches. Also the fact that he had children with his mom.

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* MoralEventHorizon: Laius crosses this prior to the trilogy when he rapes the titular character of ''Chrysippus''. This angers the gods, whom who curse his entire family and lead to the catastrophic events of the trilogy.
* NauseaFuel: When Oedipus finds out what he has done, he gouges his eyes out with his wife's brooches. Also Also, the fact that he had children with his mom.



** It's also hard for a modern audience to accept the original murder of his father. The only thing that made it a crime was his eventual revealed identity. That Oedipus killed a man for a traffic violation, and even casually talked about it to others, means nobody cared... until they knew who it was.
* VindicatedByHistory: As noted under "Award Snub," this play took second place at the competition which served as its inaugural performance. While we know the name of the playwright who won the competition ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philocles Philocles]], nephew of the famous Aeschylus), the name and script of the winning play have been lost.

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** It's also hard for a modern audience to accept the original murder of his father. The only thing that made it a crime was his eventual revealed identity. That Oedipus killed a man for a traffic violation, violation and even casually talked about it to others, means others and nobody cared...seemed to care... until they knew who it was.
* VindicatedByHistory: As noted under "Award Snub," this play took second place at the competition which that served as its inaugural performance. While we know the name of the playwright who won the competition ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philocles Philocles]], nephew of the famous Aeschylus), the name and script of the winning play have been lost.
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* VindicatedByHistory: As noted under "Award Snub," this play took second place at the competition which served as its inaugural performance. While we know the name of the playwright who won the competition ([[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philocles Philocles]], nephew of the famous Aeschylus), the name and script of the winning play have been lost.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes.

to:

* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes. All his other adventures, including how he became King of Thebes in the first place, are generally forgotten.
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* ValuesDissonance: Inevitable, given that the play is over a thousand years old.

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* ValuesDissonance: Inevitable, given that the play is over a two thousand years old.
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* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly''.

to:

* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly''.''unknowingly'', as well as the fact his mother hangs herself before he gouges out his eyes.
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** Upon the revelation that Oedipus is her son, Iocaste immediately leaves the room. A servant walks in shortly afterward to report that the queen has committed suicide. You may or may not find the abruptness of all this hilarious.

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** Upon the revelation that Oedipus is her son, Iocaste Jocasta immediately leaves the room. A servant walks in shortly afterward to report that the queen has committed suicide. You may or may not find the abruptness of all this hilarious.
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Added DiffLines:

* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: Oedipus kills his father, then marries and has sex with his mother. Although most descriptions leave out the detail that he did these things ''unknowingly''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* ItWasHisSled: The play was based on an old story and written with the expectation that the audience knew the ending. Indeed, as pointed out by classicist Bernard Knox, that gave the play its Suspense, since the audience was waiting for when Oedipus would discover the AwfulTruth. It also continues into the present day, thanks in large part to people's familiarity with the concept of the OedipusComplex...

to:

* ItWasHisSled: The play was based on an old story and written with the expectation that the audience knew the ending. Indeed, as pointed out by classicist Bernard Knox, that gave the play its Suspense, suspense, since the audience was waiting for when Oedipus would discover the AwfulTruth. It also continues into the present day, thanks in large part to people's familiarity with the concept of the OedipusComplex...OedipusComplex.

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The link no longer works.


* {{Narm}}: To a modern audience, a lot of Greek theater comes off this way, because most modern Western actors lack the training to perform it in a way that doesn't just look like [[WorldOfHam stilted overacting]].

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* {{Narm}}: To a modern audience, a lot of Greek theater theatre comes off this way, because most modern Western actors lack the training to perform it in a way that doesn't just look like [[WorldOfHam stilted overacting]].



* NightmareFuel: There's a video adaptation out there featuring every actor wearing a gigantic mask with terrifyingly huge, black eyes. Ancient Greek theater was actually performed this way, though.
** That's the 1957 version, by Tyrone Guthrie, which nowadays is pretty rare and usually held at libraries, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZUCgq8LfhY but can be viewed here]] on Website/YouTube.

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* NightmareFuel: There's a The 1957 video adaptation out there featuring by Tyrone Guthrie features every actor wearing a gigantic mask with terrifyingly huge, black eyes. Although Ancient Greek theater theatre was actually performed this way, though.
** That's the 1957 version, by Tyrone Guthrie, which nowadays is pretty rare and usually held at libraries, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZUCgq8LfhY but can be viewed here]] on Website/YouTube.
way.

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* ItWasHisSled: The play was based on an old story and written with the expectation that the audience knew the ending. Indeed, as pointed out by classicist Bernard Knox, that gave the play its Suspense, since the audience was waiting for when Oedipus would discover the AwfulTruth.
** It also continues into the present day, thanks in large part to people's familiarity with [[OedipusComplex one particular trope]]....

to:

* ItWasHisSled: The play was based on an old story and written with the expectation that the audience knew the ending. Indeed, as pointed out by classicist Bernard Knox, that gave the play its Suspense, since the audience was waiting for when Oedipus would discover the AwfulTruth. \n** It also continues into the present day, thanks in large part to people's familiarity with [[OedipusComplex one particular trope]]....the concept of the OedipusComplex...



* NauseaFuel: When Oedipus finds out what he has done, he gouges his eyes out with his wife's brooches.
** He also, you know, had children with his mom…

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* NauseaFuel: When Oedipus finds out what he has done, he gouges his eyes out with his wife's brooches.
** He also, you know,
brooches. Also the fact that he had children with his mom…mom.
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** You can also interpret Creon as suspecting the truth but not wanting to pursue it because of the political implications.

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** You can also interpret Creon as suspecting the truth truth, but not wanting to pursue it because of the political implications.
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* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly" it probably wouldn't have happened.

to:

* AlternateAesopInterpretation: It could also be said that the big lesson from the story is to simply ignore what the oracles say in the first place. As in each case it was the people involved trying to AVOID the prophecy that caused it. Oedipus' parents sending him to die, where he is instead brought to a different kingdom far away. He hears about his destiny, and fearing that it might happen, leaves what he thinks is his birth home. Frankly Frankly, if anyone involved would have said, "This prophecy is silly" silly", it probably wouldn't have happened.

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