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* FriendlyFandoms: Since Jenna Moran has also worked on the first and third editions of TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}, there is an overlap between the player bases, with the usual HypotheticalFightDebate concluding that it would be awesome to watch regardless of who would win.

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* FriendlyFandoms: Since Jenna Moran has also worked on the first and third editions of TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}, ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'', there is an overlap between the player bases, with the usual HypotheticalFightDebate concluding that it would be awesome to watch regardless of who would win.
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I was only just introduced to this... thing... and this seems to be the first impression of most newcomers, myself included.


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not even getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given everything.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not even getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given everything. It doesn't help that the sourcebooks tend to be written in almost deliberately obtuse PurpleProse that will undoubtedly leave casual readers straight-up confused.

Changed: 1251

Removed: 688

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* DoingItForTheArt: Jenna Moran's dedication towards her fans and her work are well-known. The entire design for the Great White Book in particular draws attention for this: There was no real ''need'' to include EncyclopediaExposita quotes, or to clarify so many setting details, but the end result is that the game's fluff and its mechanics are inextricably tied together in a way few other games can. [[TropesAreTools It is for this same reason, however]], that the GWB is sometimes considered more a work of art than a game.



* TroubledProduction: Where do we even start?
** Nobilis 2nd edition was put out by a small press that subsequently went down. It was then picked up by Guardians of Order, which, in Jenna Moran's words, "decided to stop sending out books and stuff and just lay coiled like a serpent around the dark heart of the world".
** The never-produced ''A Society of Flowers'' supplement for 2e was acquired, but never published, by a second small press.
** Nobilis 3rd edition was published fine, but the planned supplements got jammed in the pipeline because the press responsible for it mismanaged its money terribly and promised things they couldn't deliver.
** To the point where ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine was eventually just put out as a POD because the printing company simply could not get its act together.

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* TroubledProduction: Where do we even start?
ThatOneRule:
** Nobilis 2nd edition 1e's wounds system was put out by a small press that subsequently went down. It very unclear but was then picked up by Guardians of Order, which, in Jenna Moran's words, "decided to stop sending out books and stuff and just lay coiled like a serpent around the dark heart of the world".
** The never-produced ''A Society of Flowers'' supplement
massively improved for 2e was acquired, but never published, by a second small press.
** Nobilis 3rd edition was published fine, but the planned supplements got jammed in the pipeline
2e. 3e gets confusing again because it covers any negative effect (like being turned into a duck or being massively humiliated in public) and has to cover 3e's lack of immunity to direct miracles.
** 3e's mortal actions system is very hard to wrap your head around because it focuses on
the press responsible for it mismanaged its money terribly and promised things they couldn't deliver.
** To
effects of an action on your character's life or the world instead of normal immediate success or failure, to the point where ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine was eventually just put out as a POD because that at the printing company simply could not get its act together.top of the chart your actions are objectively "the right thing, for some fuzzy definition of right." Focusing on task resolution at that level is very hard for even experienced game masters, but [[http://nobilis.me/articles:mortal-rules here is a better explanation of how it's supposed to work.]]
** Thankfully, these rules received more clarification in ''[[TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine Chuubo's]]'', as they have become more relevant and useful.
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** Nobilis 2nd edition was put out by a small press that subsequently went down.

to:

** Nobilis 2nd edition was put out by a small press that subsequently went down. It was then picked up by Guardians of Order, which, in Jenna Moran's words, "decided to stop sending out books and stuff and just lay coiled like a serpent around the dark heart of the world".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FriendlyFandoms: Since Jenna Moran has also worked on the first and third editions of TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}, there is an overlap between the player bases, with the usual HypotheticalFightDebate concluding that it would be an awesome regardless regardless of who would win.

to:

* FriendlyFandoms: Since Jenna Moran has also worked on the first and third editions of TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}, there is an overlap between the player bases, with the usual HypotheticalFightDebate concluding that it would be an awesome regardless to watch regardless of who would win.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FriendlyFandoms: Since Jenna Moran has also worked on the first and third editions of TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}, there is an overlap between the player bases, with the usual HypotheticalFightDebate concluding that it would be an awesome regardless regardless of who would win.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The origin story of Iolithae Septimian in ''Antithesis 1i'' is a prominent example. [[spoiler:From how the words on the stone begin to haunt the temple girl to how she is tortured and abused by the temple's priest, it doesn't relent on the nightmare fuel. The girl's subsequent transformation into Iolithae and her act of turning the seas to salt don't help this very much]].

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** The origin story of Iolithae Septimian in ''Antithesis 1i'' is a prominent example. [[spoiler:From how the words on the stone begin to haunt the temple girl to how she is tortured and abused by the temple's priest, it doesn't relent on the nightmare fuel. The girl's subsequent transformation into Iolithae and her act of turning the seas to salt don't help this very much]].much]].
* TroubledProduction: Where do we even start?
** Nobilis 2nd edition was put out by a small press that subsequently went down.
** The never-produced ''A Society of Flowers'' supplement for 2e was acquired, but never published, by a second small press.
** Nobilis 3rd edition was published fine, but the planned supplements got jammed in the pipeline because the press responsible for it mismanaged its money terribly and promised things they couldn't deliver.
** To the point where ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine was eventually just put out as a POD because the printing company simply could not get its act together.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given everything.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not even getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given everything.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given the circumstances.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given the circumstances.everything.



* NightmareFuel: Any Noble, Imperator or Excrucian can do truly terrible things, particularly to mortals. [[BewareTheNiceOnes Even nice ones]] with seemingly-harmless Estates can mess up entire world with some effort. It's part and parcel of being a god.

to:

* NightmareFuel: Any Noble, Imperator or Excrucian can do truly terrible things, particularly to mortals. [[BewareTheNiceOnes Even nice ones]] with seemingly-harmless Estates can mess up the entire world with some effort. It's part and parcel of being a god.
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Added DiffLines:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: Due to the game's specific premise of demigods protecting reality from creatures outside existence, it can be difficult for newcomers to get into Nobilis, and that's not getting into the specifics of the setting. This extends to mechanics as well, since it gives the players god-like powers, but also encourages them to not engage in direct conflict except in dire circumstances, which is somewhat unintuitive given the circumstances.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Adding some stuff. This page is pretty empty.

Added DiffLines:

* DoingItForTheArt: Jenna Moran's dedication towards her fans and her work are well-known. The entire design for the Great White Book in particular draws attention for this: There was no real ''need'' to include EncyclopediaExposita quotes, or to clarify so many setting details, but the end result is that the game's fluff and its mechanics are inextricably tied together in a way few other games can. [[TropesAreTools It is for this same reason, however]], that the GWB is sometimes considered more a work of art than a game.
* GameBreaker: Averted for the most part. Even though Imperators have access to Imperial Miracles, and are thus able to change the entire world and basically modify destiny so their desires are accomplished, they still have to rely on their Nobles on a regular basis. This has to do mostly because Imperial Miracles take a long time to be spoken, and because the exact methods through which they come to be can be dangerous if not properly defined.
** Excrucian Deceivers have the ability to [[PowerCopying copy any skills and miraculous powers]] of Nobles or Imperators, in addition to any abilities they already have. This includes any Imperator's ability to use Imperial Miracles. In practice even this is not enough to completely challenge the Nobilis, usually due to a numerical disadvantage and the fact that copying someone's powers gives them all their strengths ''and'' weaknesses.
* NightmareFuel: Any Noble, Imperator or Excrucian can do truly terrible things, particularly to mortals. [[BewareTheNiceOnes Even nice ones]] with seemingly-harmless Estates can mess up entire world with some effort. It's part and parcel of being a god.
** Lord Entropy's actions in general count, fitting for someone who embodies Scorn, Desecration, and Destruction.
** The origin story of Iolithae Septimian in ''Antithesis 1i'' is a prominent example. [[spoiler:From how the words on the stone begin to haunt the temple girl to how she is tortured and abused by the temple's priest, it doesn't relent on the nightmare fuel. The girl's subsequent transformation into Iolithae and her act of turning the seas to salt don't help this very much]].
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too good to last cleanup


* TooGoodToLast: The second edition of ''Nobilis'' went out of print before more than just one supplement could come out for it. It didn't help that there was some funny business on the part of Guardians of Order, who took over distribution from Hogshead after they closed down. (The first edition did not have any supplementary materials.)
** However, Dr Moran did release material from an abortive supplement (A Society of Flowers) as the 'peculiar books', free pdf downloads: "Unlikely Flowerings" and "Creatures, Clothed in Strangeness".
** To say nothing of ''A Soul Of Your Own,'' which is an alternate setting (with alternate stats, an alternate worldview, and even alternate metaphysics... but still related) in which you play a band of wandering kung fu heroes who oppose the machinations of Nobles and Excrucians alike, because such beings are too powerful to fight, and thus the {{Warrior Poet}}s cannot decide which is right through the truth of battle. No, really.
*** As of 3e, the Zu from that have been added to the default setting.
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* BrokenBase: The art style change between second edition and third has given the Power of Flamewars a ''massive'' boost in prestige.

Removed: 1275

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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Third edition is far more whimsical than the previous two editions and is just '''loaded''' with throwaway jokes in examples and footnotes:
** "'''Bond:''' Flowers are awesome enough when they ''don't'' explode -- but when half of them are antimatter? O.M.G."
** "For instance, in your game, fire might have the Property '''Fire burns, and it doesn't care.'''[[superscript:†]]"
*** "[[superscript:†]]'''[=ProTip=]''': In the real world, fire totally ''does'' care."
** From the Edge chart:
*** "'''+1.''' Your tennis racket and shoes are awesome, and theirs are falling apart.[[superscript:†]]"
**** "[[superscript:†]]Also, you are playing tennis."
*** "'''+5.''' Your opponent has mistakenly brought a knife to a global thermonuclear annihilation fight."
** "Difficulty 9 Domain miracles allow you to perform large-scale miracles of movement and dharma -- you could ... transplant rabbits from their peaceful undersea homes to the world of land... Even at this scale, movement and dharma miracles are pretty subtle: people will know something's wrong[[superscript:†]]..."
*** "[[superscript:†]]Like how conspiracy theorists are always picking at that rabbit thing."
** "There are relatively few fights in which a 25 trillion ton snake wouldn't come in handy."
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*** "'''+5.''' You opponent has mistakenly brought a knife to a global thermonuclear annihilation fight."

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*** "'''+5.''' You Your opponent has mistakenly brought a knife to a global thermonuclear annihilation fight."
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Added DiffLines:

** "There are relatively few fights in which a 25 trillion ton snake wouldn't come in handy."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Third edition is far more whimsical than the previous two editions and is just '''loaded''' with throwaway jokes in examples and footnotes:
** "'''Bond:''' Flowers are awesome enough when they ''don't'' explode -- but when half of them are antimatter? O.M.G."
** "For instance, in your game, fire might have the Property '''Fire burns, and it doesn't care.'''[[superscript:†]]"
*** "[[superscript:†]]'''[=ProTip=]''': In the real world, fire totally ''does'' care."
** From the Edge chart:
*** "'''+1.''' Your tennis racket and shoes are awesome, and theirs are falling apart.[[superscript:†]]"
**** "[[superscript:†]]Also, you are playing tennis."
*** "'''+5.''' You opponent has mistakenly brought a knife to a global thermonuclear annihilation fight."
** "Difficulty 9 Domain miracles allow you to perform large-scale miracles of movement and dharma -- you could ... transplant rabbits from their peaceful undersea homes to the world of land... Even at this scale, movement and dharma miracles are pretty subtle: people will know something's wrong[[superscript:†]]..."
*** "[[superscript:†]]Like how conspiracy theorists are always picking at that rabbit thing."
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None


** To say nothing of ''A Soul Of Your Own,'' which is an alternate setting (with alternate stats, an alternate worldview, and even alternate metaphysics... but still related) in which you play a band of wandering kung fu heroes who oppose the machinations of Nobles and Excrucians alike, because such beings are too powerful to fight, and thus the {{Warrior Poet}}s cannot decide which is right through the truth of battle. No, really.

to:

** To say nothing of ''A Soul Of Your Own,'' which is an alternate setting (with alternate stats, an alternate worldview, and even alternate metaphysics... but still related) in which you play a band of wandering kung fu heroes who oppose the machinations of Nobles and Excrucians alike, because such beings are too powerful to fight, and thus the {{Warrior Poet}}s cannot decide which is right through the truth of battle. No, really.really.
*** As of 3e, the Zu from that have been added to the default setting.

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